My AK Fest Experience; First and Probably My Last. [Archive] - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

SubWolfer

05-04-2008, 10:05 PM

One caveat before I give y’all my perspective. I'm a noob and this is a total noob's perspective of AK Fest. But we're all entitled to our opinion and I wanted to share my experience. So please don't get angry or flame me.

First off, I’m certainly no expert on hi-fi audio, as I have only recently been bitten by the vintage audio bug. As far as really high-end two channel audio components go, I have very limited experience. Never-the-less, I discovered this really friendly forum and have nothing but good things to say about AK.org; Very friendly people, excellent info and mostly very helpful advice from AK members.

I read and perused various forums here on AK, asking for help and advice. In doing so, discovered and read about AK Fest. Well, since I reside here in Michigan and AK Fest was being held practically right in my backyard, I told a buddy of mine (who was quite surprised by my sudden interest in hi-fi audio and vintage stereo) about it. I asked him if he wanted to go check it out. He could not make it on Saturday, which was fine with me because I felt it might be very crowded that day, and plus, May 3 was the first Saturday in May, Kentucky Derby Day!

Sunday morning my buddy and I went to the AK Fest and arrived about 10:00 AM. Very nice hotel very friendly people, But I'm going to be totally honest and not sugarcoat anything.. My very brief and blunt perception was… a big let-down. I thought it was really lame and so did my buddy. We were both totally disappointed and felt it was highly over-rated.

I guess I didn’t know what to expect at AK Fest. The Fest seemed as though it was all about super high-end gear that was way out of my league, like speakers that cost $10,000 a pair. And check this, I just recently bought a used Pioneer integrated amp and used Paradigm speakers for off eBay. I also recently bought an old vintage 60's Pioneer tube tuner. But still, I certainly thought there would be something for everyone at the Fest. That was not to be. They had one tiny room with some older used stuff, which in my opinion wasn’t even worth putting on eBay, let alone on display and for sale at an audio show.

The show itself was, well… I thought it sucked to be totally blunt. All these very small, single hotel rooms that all had their doors shut and the blinds closed. When you walked in, it felt like you were interrupting something. Not that anyone was rude mind you. But I just didn’t feel comfortable. Especially after walking into a few of the rooms (remember, you had to actually open the door, you couldn’t just freely walk in) with this feeling like I was disturbing the occupants. Not anything like I expected, that’s for sure.

I live here in Michigan and every year we have the International North America Auto Show, held in Detroit. I’m sure y’all know what that’s about. It’s really awesome. I kind of thought this would be somewhat similar. Sure, I knew there were going to be some listening rooms set up, but I expected there to be some wide open areas as well, big conference rooms that you could just walk around and check stuff out. But again, this was not to be. Every room was a tiny little single hotel room with the doors closed that had occupants engaged in what felt like some private affairs. It felt like I was intruding, due mostly to the fact of how small each room was and the closed doors. It was like walking into an auto dealership and entering the room where the salesman is speaking to a perspective client in a small cubicle. It just wasn’t a very open, inviting atmosphere. And no vintage audio gear to boot. If there was, I didn’t see it because after trespassing into several rooms, we left.

Total time spent at the AK Fest; just over an hour at a cost of $15. It just wasn’t what I expected. I guess if you know everyone and want to get into BS sessions, it could be fun. But that’s not what I went there for. At least at the Auto Show, even if you don’t care for checking out all the newest cars, there’s other exhibits and something for everyone, including attractive female models. I found the AK Fest to be nothing but two floors of un-inviting tiny hotel rooms with expensive high-end audio and old men engaged in uninteresting private conversation.

My first and probably last AK Fest, I'm sorry to say.

Fisher-Dave

05-04-2008, 10:18 PM

Sorry you feel that way.

I remember my first trip to the fest, yes it did seem a bit odd not really knowing folks but before I left, I was feeling right at home. When it was time to leave, why it was kinda hard to walk away from.Should have gave it a little time, I mean folks are excited after waiting a year to meet up again, so sure they gonna be bullshitting. I know I did. LOL, I bullshit more each time I go as folks only become closer :thmbsp:

Each listening room had a place to sit and listen to the systems :yes:

SubWolfer

05-04-2008, 10:43 PM

Sorry you feel that way.

Each listening room had a place to sit and listen to the systems :yes:

True that, a love seat style sofa that could accommodate two adults. Glad I went Sunday rather than Saturday. Can't imagine trying to walk in those tiny rooms with any type of crowd there, and it wasn't like it was a ghost town on Sunday, either.

I reckon if I could have walked into each room with a full understanding of what to expect and realized that you had to sort of "fit in" to get the most out of it, maybe then I would have got something out of it. But I had a buddy with me and he had the exact same impression I did. He actually felt like they shouldn't charge a dime for admission. But I told him I'd buy him a couple beers to make up for leading him on and talking it up. I was disappointed to say the least. And none, I mean not one female, except for the check-in gals. it was just boring I thought, I wasn't wowed except for the price tags on some of the gear.

And don't get me wrong, I didn't go there hoping to see hot chicks dancing wildly or expecting a freakin party :no: (although it would have helped). But the atmosphere was so dry that it made me want to leave after just 10 minutes of being there. And the extremely expensive gear and all the older men BS'n, it just wasn't what I would call "fun" at all. How anyone found it to be is beyond me. Would have been a little more enjoyable to at least have some women to talk to. I don't know. maybe I aint "mature" enough to appreciate the Fest. But I just felt that there was nothing "festive" about the "Fest" in my opinion.

Kegger

05-04-2008, 10:54 PM

As you say, you are definatly entitled to your oppinion, but you really didn't
give the fest a fair chance as you really need to spend some time there and
check things out a bit, sure there's a bunch of high end/expensive gear in a
good bit of the rooms, but there's also some moderatly priced things as well
(the fest is really paid for by the exhibitors) plus there is plenty of DIY and
vintage there to in the members rooms which were scattered in with the big
manufacturers, the fest is large and it does take some time to see it all/and
or what one might be looking for.

Hope you give it another shot next year, look for the members rooms, they'll
give you more of what you were looking for.

BajaGringo

05-04-2008, 11:00 PM

I have never gone to one of these events but I have had the opportunity to attend similar venues from online forums. My experience in general is that if one goes to such an event that has a history, you will find that your first time will be a bit difficult as they all seem to know each other and you will feel like the odd man out. It happens. My suggestions...

For the "newbies" - make an effort to go up to folks and introduce yourself and include your online handle. Tell them where you are from and that this is your first time. In other words, "break the ice..."

For the "veterans" - it can be intimidating for someone coming for the first time with not a single friendly face around. Especially if you are all in your own little groups and the conversation stops the minute a newbie walks in and you are all staring at him/her like they just stepped off an alien spaceship. Be the first to extend your hand and introduce yourselves. Invite the newbie into the conversation and find some common ground. Remember what it's like to be in his/her shoes...

I wasn't aware it was only high end / high $$$ gear. I thought there would be a lot of old and hard to find gear as well in addition to some gear members brought to sell/show. A balance would be good to offer broader appeal.

But what do I know...

:music:

Wigwam Jones

05-04-2008, 11:04 PM

True that, a love seat style sofa that could accommodate two adults. Glad I went Sunday rather than Saturday. Can't imagine trying to walk in those tiny rooms with any type of crowd there, and it wasn't like it was a ghost town on Sunday, either.

Some of the rooms were quite crowded, but many were empty a good part of the day Sunday. And it ebbed and flowed - if there was a room you wanted to get into, sometimes just waiting for a song to end could make the difference.

I reckon if I could have walked into each room with a full understanding of what to expect and realized that you had to sort of "fit in" to get the most out of it, maybe then I would have got something out of it. But I had a buddy with me and he had the exact same impression I did.

Well, I have to say I'm honestly not sure what you mean there. We have all types at AK. From the outgoing to the fairly introverted. I didn't know what to expect in each room (this was my 2nd Fest) and I just barged right in and plopped myself down. Never noticed anything amiss - perhaps my skin is too thick?

He actually felt like they shouldn't charge a dime for admission. But I told him I'd buy him a couple beers to make up for leading him on and talking it up. I was disappointed to say the least. And none, I mean not one female, except for the check-in gals.

Yeah, well there I think you're a little off-base. I won't flame you, but you know, if you want hot chicks, go to a bar. This is AK, and a very large contingent of us are typical middle-class, middle-aged, men. Sure, some women get into audio gear, and some husbands and wives share an interest and come to these things together. But really - most of us are a bit past the need to see a swimsuit model explain the characteristic curve of a new speaker design.

it was just boring I thought, I wasn't wowed except for the price tags on some of the gear.

If you were bored, then yes, you were probably in the wrong place. It's not glam and glitter. Pricey? Hey, I'm in the same boat you are - I could not afford one of those speakers - hell, I could not afford one of the cables they used to hook 'em up.

But - I did get to listen to them. And you know, it is great to be able to hear what 'top of the line' sounds like from time to time. And especially in an environment where there is no pressure on you to buy anything - nobody sizing you up or pre-qualifying you or trying to figure out how much disposable income you may have. I'm intimidated walking into the high-end audio salons, frankly. I'm not able to buy that gear and I feel like I'm wasting their time going in there. But at AK, they come to me.

And don't get me wrong, I didn't go there hoping to see hot chicks or expecting a freakin party. :no: But the atmosphere, the extremely expensive gear, all the older men BS'n, it just wasn't what I would call "fun" at all.

Well, as to being old, we're old. Sorry. Deal with it. I'm 47 this July. What would you like me to do about it? Wave a magic wand and be 20 again?

I'll tell you this - for all that being 20 was cool and fun and all - I am currently in a situation where I rent a room in a house in Royal Oak with three 20-something guys, and half the time they wake me up when they come in wrecked at 3 in the morning, and I've found more than one of them face-down in their own puke when I leave for work in the morning. I'm pretty happy at 47. Really.

How anyone found it to be is beyond me. There was nothing "festive" about the "Fest" in my opinion.

I'm guessing that a lot of us older men who stood around BS'ing found it interesting - and yes, I am going to guess it is beyond you. Not trying to be insulting, but you have to get old before you understand old. Our advantage is that we've been your age - you haven't been ours.

I hope you'll give the Fest a try again sometime. Maybe a different set of expectations would help - and I mean that in a positive and hopefully helpful way. Consider it a chance to audition lots of very expensive gear without being hassled. Grow a bit of a thicker skin and just walk in any room you like and deposit yourself on the sofa. Even bring some of your favorite music (I got turned on to Modest Mouse yesterday, interesting stuff) and make the sales guy play that for you. They'll do it, trust me. Hell, it might even clear out some of the old guys.

Oh and one last thing - did you check out the 'AK Member' rooms? Lots of AK guys had their DIY, low-cost, vintage, and other non-nose-bleed expensive stuff there. Some of it sounded terrific!

THAT, I can afford.

The nice thing about AK and AK Fest for me is that I can go there with a bunch of guys who have WAY more money than I do, and while they might be able to buy that top-end kit and I can't - they never act like they're better than me. That means a lot to me.

onepixel

05-04-2008, 11:05 PM

Sub,

AK isn't solely about "vintage" audio although a lot of us here enjoy vintage gear. Listening to music is an intimate, "private", and individual experience. It's nearly impossible to properly listen to music in a "big conference room" with most home audio.

And like "auto shows" it should be fun checking out what the hot performers are, like a Maserati, Lotus or any other exotic and expensive automobile. The Fest gives the vendors and sponors a place to show off their best.

As for the old guys sitting around talking, most are good friends and they have some very interesting things to say.

If you hang around here long enough, you'll get a better understanding of it all.

jeffsab

05-04-2008, 11:06 PM

I can relate to what SubWolfer wrote. I'm new to the hobby and also found the event to be different than I expected, but I still had a great time. I do think it would be nice if there was some sort of "newbie" room or orientation session next year. On that note, perhaps some official seminars on things like replacing speaker surrounds or cleaning out a Salvation Army receiver with Deoxit.

SubWolfer

05-04-2008, 11:09 PM

Wigwam Jones

05-04-2008, 11:10 PM

While I can relate to everything SubWolfer wrote. I'm new to the hobby and also found the event to be different than I expected, but I still had a great time. I do think it would be nice if there was some sort of "newbie" room or orientation session next year. On that note, perhaps some official seminars on things like replacing speaker surrounds or cleaning out a Salvation Army receiver with Deoxit.

Those are good ideas. Nobody liked my idea of having a Bose Toss contest.

But I would happily volunteer to terrorize, I mean tenderize, I mean terminate, I mean, show the newbies around and 'splain things to them if that would help.

And by the by - I think Squidward has to be given some cred here - he was very welcoming - anyone who stopped by his room got a warm invite, was offered a seat and conversation, and he always explained what he was showing off (his own tube amps) and how he built them, and he even tried to evangelize (in a nice and gentle way) how easy it was to DIY a tube amp - I nearly memorized his whole speech after hearing about five times while I was taking pictures of his tube amp innards. Squidward went the extra mile - he was the true AK Ambassador of DIY Funk, and I think he should be thanked for it.

Sorry our new guy here didn't make it by his room!

BajaGringo

05-04-2008, 11:13 PM

I think that if we can keep this topic above board there might be a lot of value for both newbies and veterans. I would like to hear the perspective of more newbies and veterans. An honest conversation with no hurt feelings would only help to make the next event an even bigger success. It is easy to see how such an event in the beginning would tend to be a get-together between good friends but as years pass and the event grows it is probably a good idea to accept that the scope and venue will change in size and dynamic.

I would like to attend a fest in the future and I would be interested to hear what folks on both side of the issue think...

:music:

Wigwam Jones

05-04-2008, 11:15 PM

Please understand, this is just one mans opinion. A first-timer and a very inexperienced audio fan. I certainly don't want tot take anything away from the enjoyment other audiophile veterans got from the Fest experience. I just didn't get that same sense of satisfaction and just felt it was way over-rated. And one thing I can say for sure, being a noob to vintage audio and and hi-fi stereo, this show didn't help me or educate me at all. I was hoping that it would but it did not. I guess what really turned me off the most was the tiny rooms. If there was more than 5 people in there it felt cramped. Maybe I'm a little claustrophobic. Or perhaps I just didn't like being in a tiny room with all guys. Some rooms I just opened the door and peeked in, didn't even want to walk in cause the vibe was just strange. Again. if there would been some females in there dancing or some laughing and a festive vibe, I woulda felt different and probably enjoyed it. But sorry, IMHO, it was lame. Guess it aint for everyone.

OK, well, I'm really trying to be nice and you were very polite and said not to flame you, so I really don't want to.

But what you're saying is that you wanted the room layout to be different - well it is a hotel, not sure how that happens, do we tear out the walls for you? And you want the male-female ratio to be different - ok go round up some willing female audiophiles, I guess - good luck, we haven't been too good at that ourselves up to now, and you have a 'too many guys' tweek - well sorry, but really, son, I spent six years in the Marines sleeping in a room with 80 other guys, if five or so bother you, you might consider that you've got an issue going on there. And as to the laughing and dancing. Well, I laughed the whole time (ask anyone) and hell man, I'll dance for you, but you'll probably claw your own eyeballs out to get the memory out of your brain.

Seriously, I'm sorry you didn't dig it. But you're not showing that you're willing to do much more than show up and say 'entertain me'. Hey, wasn't that a song?

Celadon

05-04-2008, 11:16 PM

Sorry to hear that the Fest wasn't your cup of tea, but to me the Fest represents the camaraderie that AK is all about.

I only wish that I were fortunate enough to have been able to attend something that was "was being held practically right in my backyard" as you say. For me, the Fest is a couple thousand miles away-- maybe next year! :thmbsp:

Putting together faces with the online community that AK is, and spending time with those faces, in real time-- sharing experiences and laughs seems to be what the real spirit of AK is about anyway.

Hell, if I wanted to see a bunch of females dancing around there's plenty of places for that sort of thing, and car shows too.

No flame, just my 2 cents, and my appreciation for your point of view, and more so, for AudioKarma and what it represents to me.

Kegger

05-04-2008, 11:16 PM

Yes if you really wanted the Vintage or an AK feeling or a DIY thing one really
did need to make a point to get to the members rooms, there you would have
gotten that experience you went there to find and maybe learn something to.

SubWolfer

05-04-2008, 11:17 PM

I have never gone to one of these events but...

For the "veterans" - it can be intimidating for someone coming for the first time with not a single friendly face around. Especially if you are all in your own little groups and the conversation stops the minute a newbie walks in and you are all staring at him/her like they just stepped off an alien spaceship.

For never being to one of these events you hit it right on the head. What I quoted from you above describes my experience to the T. Add in in expensive gear (which was way out of my league) and I think you get the picture.

I'm sure a lota folks had a great time. I just have to be honest though and express I wasn't one of them. But hey, it's OK. Me and my buddy had a couple beers and a burger and talked about the gear i recently acquired. Still had an enjoyable day. Oh, and by the way, my buddy did buy several used LP's in the Vinyl Swap room and I got a really cool old Ian Hunter LP.

Wigwam Jones

05-04-2008, 11:17 PM

Justen

05-04-2008, 11:22 PM

So you let your own fear and discomfort (and lack of women) turn you away from a potential learning experience. You get of life exactly what you put into it; no more, and no less.

BajaGringo

05-04-2008, 11:22 PM

Sorry to hear that the Fest wasn't your cup of tea, but to me the Fest represents the camaraderie that AK is all about.

I wasn't even there so I can only try to read between the lines. You mention the "camaraderie" and I understand the value in that. So imagine the perspective of a newbie who walks into rooms where he feels like he is breaking up private conversations between friends. It is not a very comfortable feeling and probably contributed to him wanting to make an early escape and not having an overall good feeling about the event. Maybe some of the old timers who arrive knowing many or most of the faces could make an effort to help reach out to the new faces. I would if I wanted to help make the event continue to grow.

More people means more exposure for the sponsors meaning more support from them. Just seems like common sense.

But what do I know...

:music:

Kegger

05-04-2008, 11:24 PM

OK I'm tired, time to crash, 3 days of staying up till 4am and partying with a
bunch of good people has taken it's tole on me, peace brothers!

I welcomed anyone and everyone into my room with a handshake and an intro!!

CAN'T WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR! (Already got next years amplifier project in my head)

fotno

05-04-2008, 11:24 PM

Perhaps if you'd hung around here a little longer, and gotten to know the people who make up the AK family, you'd likely have realized that some of those old men engaged in "uninteresting" conversation, have a great deal to offer a young person who would take the time to introduce themselves.

There was more audio (and world-wise) knowledge in those tiny rooms, that you can even imagine. Amp builders, speaker builders, designers and engineers, not to mention the hobbyists who have forgotten more than I'll probably ever know, not to mention Men and Women who have sailed the world over, traveled to the far corners of the globe, and have the stories (and scars) to show for it.

But more importantly, you walked into a place filled with my friends. A building packed to the rafters with some of the best & kindest people I've ever known. Those "old men" have treated me like a brother, and have given of their time and energy over and over, till I know I'll never balance the scales. One of my proudest achievements as a human being is to be counted in their number, to be one of them.

I was not there this year. I wish that I could have been... I would have loved to have had the opportunity you had.

You said every one is entitled to an opinion, well there's mine.

Fisher-Dave

05-04-2008, 11:28 PM

*quote Wigwam Jones*

Oh and one last thing - did you check out the 'AK Member' rooms? Lots of AK guys had their DIY, low-cost, vintage, and other non-nose-bleed expensive stuff there. Some of it sounded terrific!

THAT, I can afford.

The nice thing about AK and AK Fest for me is that I can go there with a bunch of guys who have WAY more money than I do, and while they might be able to buy that top-end kit and I can't - they never act like they're better than me. That means a lot to me.==

True. Dave Newman and Ed took the time to sit and show me step by step how they built some DIY tube gear.Truly two fine gentlemen. I am certain that others would do the same :yes:

Again,true,there is costly gear I can't toutch either but out of all honesty, these guys believe it's all about enjoying what you have and never treat anyone any different for having a lesser system. There's a system out there for all wether it be worth 5 bucks, or worth a war pention. I listen to a setup there that was using a low cost Pioneer receiver for power that sounded very nice. I guess what I'm trying to say here is I learned from these guys that I am the only one that should matter what my system sounds like,or is worth, as long as I like what I hear.:music:

Wigwam Jones

05-04-2008, 11:30 PM

I was not there this year. I wish that I could have been... I would have loved to have had the opportunity you had.

I would have liked that too. Especially after what I heard coming of a set of speakers on Sunday, bud.

As to the camaraderie of old buds, and so forth, I know maybe five of six people at AK Fest by sight - a few more by screen name. I just crash around for myself and act obnoxious. Works fine for me.

BajaGringo

05-04-2008, 11:33 PM

But more importantly, you walked into a place filled with my friends. A building packed to the rafters with some of the best & kindest people I've ever known. Those "old men" have treated me like a brother, and have given of their time and energy over and over, till I know I'll never balance the scales. One of my proudest achievements as a human being is to be counted in their number, to be one of them.

I understand your point - I am just saying take a moment and look at it from his point of view. This group is full of your friends, people you have established a relationship with. He came in knowing not a single soul. I already suggested that he should have reached out to meet some of the folks and make a connection. It also sounds like maybe some of the members could have recognized they were in their own little groups and perhaps made an effort to reach out to the newbies.

Not picking on anybody, just trying to give a neutral point of view. To be honest, the more I read I get the feeling that I probably won't go to one of these events either anytime in the future. Sounds more and more like a gathering of old friends who already know each other and not designed to attract new blood. Maybe I'm wrong. I am just going to sit back and read the followup and see how it plays out...

:music:

Fisher-Dave

05-04-2008, 11:34 PM

OK I'm tired, time to crash, 3 days of staying up till 4am and partying with a
bunch of good people has taken it's tole on me, peace brothers!

I welcomed anyone and everyone into my room with a handshake and an intro!!

CAN'T WAIT TLL NEXT YEAR! (Already got next years amplifier project in my head)

Was a pleasure Keg, can't wait till next year.

Can't think of anyone I didn't enjoy meeting as always.:thmbsp:

Justen

05-04-2008, 11:34 PM

Me and Kegger could both dance for you. Oooh, baby. Makes me fell warm all over.

Makes me feel something all over. Not so much warm, unless that is another way of describing a slightly ill sensation...

Celadon

05-04-2008, 11:35 PM

I wasn't even there so I can only try to read between the lines. You mention the "camaraderie" and I understand the value in that. So imagine the perspective of a newbie who walks into rooms where he feels like he is breaking up private conversations between friends. It is not a very comfortable feeling and probably contributed to him wanting to make an early escape and not having an overall good feeling about the event. Maybe some of the old timers who arrive knowing many or most of the faces could make an effort to help reach out to the new faces. I would if I wanted to help make the event continue to grow.

More people means more exposure for the sponsors meaning more support from them. Just seems like common sense.

But what do I know...

:music:

I wasn't in attendance either, but the camaraderie thing that I was speaking of is just what AK seems to be all about, (for me at least) and it seems that the Fest would only amplify that.

It's all good --- :)

SubWolfer

05-04-2008, 11:39 PM

OK, well, I'm really trying to be nice and you were very polite and said not to flame you, so I really don't want to.

But what you're saying is that you wanted the room layout to be different - well it is a hotel, not sure how that happens, do we tear out the walls for you??

I have been to seminars and other venues at hotels and it's not like they don't have big huge rooms to offer up. Almost any hotel of size has conference rooms.

And you want the male-female ratio to be different - ok go round up some willing female audiophiles, I guess - good luck, we haven't been too good at that ourselves up to now, and you have a 'too many guys' tweek - well sorry, but really, son, I spent six years in the Marines sleeping in a room with 80 other guys, if five or so bother you, you might consider that you've got an issue going on there.

You know what, scratch the female thing. I know I'm in the wrong there. I had a few beers tonight. So just disregard what I said about no women being there. I have no issues and I further realize that this is mostly a guy kinda hobby. Sorry about bringing up the female to male ration factor.

And as to the laughing and dancing. Well, I laughed the whole time (ask anyone) and hell man, I'll dance for you, but you'll probably claw your own eyeballs out to get the memory out of your brain.

Point taken, LOL I'm just trying to let y'all know that there could be some improvements for new first time attendees. I don't want to rock the boat. Just wanted to give ya my perspective. Thanks for not flaming me for it.

1968jatorocket

05-04-2008, 11:50 PM

SubWolfer, I think that I know what you are saying that the show was a little standoffish. There were a few vendors that didn't talk much, well that is until you talk too them. The David Michael Audio rep was more than happy to spend time B.S.ing with me about the audio equipment that he was selling. I think in some way he was a bit bummed because not many people were bringing in their own music (at least when I was there). He found it a thrill to hear what others like to hear in his system. I know that I was in a hurry and forgot to burn a test CD my self, so I guilty. I would like to thank the vendors that let me play something other than Jazz or classical. I believe it was the rep in the Audio Space room that let me play Madman across the water in SACD. That really made the show for me:D. There was another vendor that let me contaminate the room with Muddy Waters, way cool with the dipole speakers :thmbsp:.
I would like to say that I had more fun last year as it seemed that more vendors brought in more equipment to display. What I mean is that some vendors last year brought in 5 sets of speakers to listen too, 3 or 4 amps, and a couple of different sources. This year I found that most vendors brought in one system and it was probably their best system. I know that there were vendors that had multi rooms Salk/Audio Van Alstine and Superior Sight and Sound Esoteric/Bel Canto are at the top of mind.
I would like to thank the AK Members that were kind enough to bring their personal equipment. I was generally blown away by the innovation of the DIY crowd. Squidward's equipment was easily as good sounding as much of the high end price equipment. Not to mention that he was nice enough to sit and b.s. with me about his upgraded B.H. FP3 preamp. There was another member that had probably one of the nicest sounding speakers that I heard, sorry that I forgot you name, but those tall twin Fostex drive speakers were killer!!! I’m not sure, but I bet there were more members in the hotel with open arms, but unfortunately I had other obligations on Saturday to seek you out.
In the end I enjoyed the show and I will be back next year, but with an amp in one arm and music another so I can test some speakers with my equipment. - John

Justen

05-05-2008, 12:00 AM

In the end I enjoyed the show and I will be back next year, but with an amp in one arm and music another so I can test some speakers with my equipment. - John

A fine, fine attitude.

Hell, I "knew" lots of people there, at least by their user name. From there I simply stuck out my hand, introduced myself, and started BSing. But I only really knew a couple prior to this weekend. I find that introductions and asking questions to be excellent ways to begin conversations...any of the DIY member rooms were very inviting places and simple question usually brought more information than my limited brain could handle!

1968jatorocket

05-05-2008, 12:07 AM

In my stupidity, I did not put my member ship name on my nametag. I'm sure that this could have helped break in to conversation even if I do not post much. Other will recognize a member and want to talk.

Justen, thanks. I debated bringing my stuff this year, but I was short on time Saturday and not able to make it today. Hope to see more guys next year. - John

MrGee

05-05-2008, 12:11 AM

SubWolfer,

I am uniquely qualified in answering this post...look at my join date.
I sit here now, at 1:50 AM, in a lousy motel, half of the 14 hour drive home and it is funny, I dont feel anything like you do.

First off, this needs to be gotten out of the way first.
SOME of us are GLAD that hi-end audio does not glorify the degradation of women. Half bared breasts and ass is just that, no matter how you slice it. If there were thinly clad models rubbing crotches on this years tube integrated amps, I would not be returning.
(Would you want your daughter showing her body to tongue hanging perverts?)

I hear your point about the high priced gear.
But you obviously did not see all the rooms, because a full 1/3 of the show was the lower priced stuff/DIY-friendly/AK Member room oriented.
Did you not read the site devoted to the fest? I did. It was exactly what I thought it would be from the sites description.

(My show favorite has offerings starting at around 300 bucks.)

You cannot have a show that is about audio in a big room. It just cannot work. Each room needs a little bit of privacy to hear the system. Drawn curtains meant nothing but sound proofing.

The show was there for you to browse the rooms. EVERY one that I looked in contained a friendly face inviting me in and asking me if I brought some music or if I had any questions. I do understand about conversations stopping, but did you ever think they were giving you a chance to open your mouth and say something? "Hi, I am XXXXXXX, and I am looking for XXXXXXX and I like your modelXXXXXX but had this concern about it." WHATEVER. Shake a hand and say hello. There were no snobs showing gear. (Well, almost none.)

I joined AK a couple weeks ago. I knew NO ONE. You know what? I did not give a s@#$ either. I was there to see the gear, hear the gear and if I met some people...so be it.
There were a couple of snobberies in the Audio Note room when I went in there. I cleared them by telling the rep I had some Hank Williams Jr songs specially done by Sid Vicious. (Got rid of them in short order);)
I can tell from your post that you felt very intimidated and inferior. I think that comes from within, not the attitude at the fest.
We focus on what we want to. Funny thing is, I was there both days and I loved it, made at least 5 new friends, 3 business contacts and enjoyed myself a great deal.
Beer gardens and wet t shirt contests it isn't. (Thank God) But the average person attending that fest is just a normal working stiff like anyone else. God, did you seem to get the wrong impression of the people there(who were VERY warm and friendly)
I plan on going back.
If I get to know the crowd here, great. If not...oh well, it will not be because I did not have a positive 'tude...wet t shirts or not.

I think we should have a MALE wet t shirt contest. (Who might win that one hmmmm)
10-4 good buddy...

BajaGringo

05-05-2008, 12:16 AM

Hell, I "knew" lots of people there, at least by their user name.

Check out your post count number to the OP's. The fact that you have made so many posts it is likely that you have interacted with many of the members from AK there at the event on multiple occasions, That fact alone, whether or not you had ever met face to face would make it much easier to assimilate into the group at such an event. That he has had very little interaction via posts makes it more likely that he will feel the way he did.

The fact he took the time and effort as well as chance of being flamed to make his original post demonstrates that his experience was just that. Reading his posts I didn't get that he was trying to bash AK or the event - only give an honest account of his experience. From reading the posts of those of you trying so hard to defend the status quo I can better understand where he is coming from. My only point is that if you ever want this thing to really grow you cannot treat this like a good ol' boys club. You have to reach out to the newbies so they will want to come back and become vets themselves and bring more newbies with them next time.

Right now I am getting the sense that I would probably feel like an outsider too if I were to go to one of these events. That is the vibe I get back from those of you who have jumped all over this guy instead of just taking a moment to listen to what he is saying and trying to understand his perspective. If you were ever to get involved in putting on events like this professionally that type of input is critical for future success - not to be ridiculed or kicked aside.

But what do I know...

:music:

MrGee

05-05-2008, 12:20 AM

a newbie-old-timer meet and greet might be nice. Only two things can make that happen though. Coordinated events, or...TEQUILA

SubWolfer

05-05-2008, 12:26 AM

1968jatorocket

05-05-2008, 12:32 AM

MrGee, I totally think that you are a bit out of line. You have to remember that his experience is different than yours. Everybody will have a different take on a situation. I'm sure that SubWolfer was not looking for a bar/brothel full of models wearing 78's as pasties! I'm not a huge poster here, but I have been a member for sometime and would like to say that to get angry about one's experience is over the top.
By the sounds of it, you had a much better experience. I'm just as happy that you had a great time as I am disapointed that SubWolfer had a not so good time. I can only say from my point of view that I had a good time and I will be back in the future. By the way, have a safe trip! 14 hour drives are killers. I know, I've driven from Detroit to Memphis a couple of time straight throu. - John

BajaGringo

05-05-2008, 12:32 AM

Perhaps I am interested more than most in this as in the past few months I have taken on the responsibility of helping to coordinate 9 events to promote Baja this coming summer and fall in the US and Canada. I have begun attending other events in the LA and San Diego areas to critique what I liked and didn't like about the events to learn what we can do to make ours successful. One thing that has stood out to me is that at some of these events I can see where some folks never seem to assimilate on their own and the successful events are those where they make an effort to reach out and pull those folks in. If you want this do be a good ol' boys club and just reminisce amongst yourselves, that's fine and that's what it will be. If you want to use it as an opportunity to promote the group and grow, you need to reach out and make an extra effort to welcome those newbies. Especially if you want continued and greater sponsor support. That's just a reality.

I am not saying that everybody was unfriendly but obviously the OP encountered what he did and I think the group should thank him for his input - not ridicule him. Some people are social butterflies and are at home wherever they go. Others are not and appreciate a warm smile and friendly extended hand to break the ice. With some folks you have to make an effort to get them to open up and talk. Successful events tailor themselves to appeal to all. Learn from it...

:music:

bigmacc

05-05-2008, 02:57 AM

For the record it should be remembered the A.K. Fest was moved to the Embassy on very short notice due to problems at the original site. Also the Fest shared the venue with a large wedding. The rooms had to be open yet at the same time "close" if playing music not to disturb the other non-audio quests.

I have attended every Fest from year two on and consider these events my favourite weekend in the year so my perspective is somewhat clouded. SubWolfer is certainly entitled to his opinion. I wish he had experienced the live music Saturday nite a concert that was simply a "tour de force" an out blues, rock in roll event. There was plenty of fine inexpensive quality stuff for sale but again l can see how it could be miss.

I'm not sure what can be done to address the issues SubWolfer has brought forth. Any Fest will be a tradeoff. One item for new attendees, l'm sure there would be no lack of volunteers to take them on an initial tour while giving them the freedom to venture forth on their own. I personally would have volunteered, all l would have needed was the time and place.

Now it is SubWolfer's choice but l would give the A.K. Fest another chance to experience the potential this event has.

gigidy5

05-05-2008, 03:33 AM

I wish he had experienced the live music Saturday nite a concert that was simply a "tour de force" an out blues, rock in roll event.

Laith al-saadi Yay. He should have won the guitar center challenge.

PakProtector

05-05-2008, 03:34 AM

superaudiott

05-05-2008, 04:24 AM

Yeah, well there I think you're a little off-base. I won't flame you, but you know, if you want hot chicks, go to a bar. This is AK, and a very large contingent of us are typical middle-class, middle-aged, men. Sure, some women get into audio gear, and some husbands and wives share an interest and come to these things together. But really - most of us are a bit past the need to see a swimsuit model explain the characteristic curve of a new speaker design.

Even as a 20-year-old, I couldn't agree more with Wigwam Jones - what did you really expect a slumber party?

However, from the perspective of a young person there are individuals in hi-fi stores who have been very patronising and judgemental and totally uninterested in my custom. But I think that is a general problem rather than anything relating to AK Fest.

If you want this do be a good ol' boys club and just reminisce amongst yourselves, that's fine and that's what it will be. If you want to use it as an opportunity to promote the group and grow, you need to reach out and make an extra effort to welcome those newbies. Especially if you want continued and greater sponsor support. That's just a reality.

Couldn't agree more :yes:

botrytis

05-05-2008, 04:57 AM

It sounds like you came to the Fest to meet women and not chat with people. I was at the first 2 Fests and you need to be open and not intimidated. I know Brian B is always welcoming as probably are many of the other vendors.

I was sad that I couldnt make this fest, but next year!!!

You get out exactly what you put in - you put in nothing you got out nothing.

birddog

05-05-2008, 05:25 AM

As someone who has never attended the fest, maybe I know not of what I speak, but how can you judge the Fest by spending 1 hour there? I bet there were members, new and old, who spent most if not all of the weekend there, and did not get to see every room and sponsor system!

Yes, it probably is intimidating to a newb to walk into the rooms to be in the middle of a few guys who are talking, and are old friends, but you have to remember, these same guys just a few years ago were strangers and Fest newbs as well!

You will only take away from an event like this what you put into it, it's that simple. Questions unaswered, hands unshaken, aquantainences not made, is what you got for your $15.00. Don't blame this on the Fest, for the blame lies squarely at your feet.

You missed out on a wonderful opportunity by keeping your hands in your pockets, and by not taking advantage of all of the skill and knowledge that was present there, as well as the great friendships you could have started.

Hopefully, this experience has not soured you on AK, or the hobby, and you will continue to be a valued, contributing member of AK. I also hope that between now and the next Fest, you reconsider your experience, and give next years Fest the chance that it, and you, deserve. The Fest is such a great resource/event for all, and it would be a shame to not give it another chance, especially since you reside so close!

Strawman

05-05-2008, 05:35 AM

This was my 3rd 'Fest. My first one was similar to your experience in a way. I just joined weeks prior, and knew nobody, but was welcomed and many local people. The 2nd was was more about gear & music collecting, but also strengthening and creating new relationships with members. This year was strictly about the camarerie. Looking at nametags, putting faces to screen names. Just being able to say hello and shake a mans hand that you have come to respect over the years. (perhaps this is the part that's lacking from your experience)

I spent the majority of my time with people that traveled from all over the country and abroad just to meet them. The funniest thing I encountered was a guy from England that couldn't grasp the accent of the lady from Tennessee.

As Douglas stated, consider the SMAC meetings to get to know some of the local people better and I assure you that it will be a more fulfilling experience next year.

luvvinvinyl

05-05-2008, 06:00 AM

Thanks for stating and defending your opinion.

About the 'outsider' feelings, please remember that over three-fourths of the attendees were 'walk-ins', who came to the show, from outside of AK, to see the gear, and hear some music. There were a few times when I attempted to enter a room, only to find it full. I moved on, and returned, later.

I remember my first Fest, years ago. Nobody knew me, even though I was a member, because I didn't have my username on my credentials. That makes it tough for others. I did bring an LP, and I trooped from room to room, looking for working turntables. In every room where there was a tt, the person staffing the room was only too happy to play my selection. I even turned on several people to one of my favourite recording. The benefit of having your own audition piece is that you are familiar with how the music sounds, so you can more easily judge what changes exist in the playback.

As for the room size, when our original venue became unavailable, on short notice, we had to find another place. Swiss time was running out...
(Oh. Sorry.) We had to fine another venue, and the Embassy suites was it. In larger rooms, in the past, many vendors did bring several items for static display, or even to roll in. This year, there were several rooms with two systems. The room did present a challenge to certain vendors to pay extra attention to their system choices.

It is unfortunate that you were disappointed in this year's Fest, as many people put in huges amounts of time and effort to stage this year's event. If you would permit me, with 40 rooms, and travel time, in one hour, you either skipped rooms, or averaged about a minute in each. No disrespect, my young friend, but I hope, if there is a next time, that you give the Fest a fair chance.

Please stick around, and maybe, next year, you will be arranging to meet your AK friends at the Fest.

And do, please, check out the SMAC forum, and meeting dates. You will be welcomed there.

Wigwam Jones

05-05-2008, 06:10 AM

And do, please, check out the SMAC forum, and meeting dates. You will be welcomed there.

Absolutely. We love him long time. Kidding! Seriously, it's about as laid back as any group can be. Some recent SMAC photos...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/sets/72157604207176067/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/sets/72157603805134841/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/sets/72157603410780953/

70salesguy

05-05-2008, 07:01 AM

Wow!

As one who has not attended this event (but would like to, someday), here's what I see.

1. Subwolfer would have probably been more well-received if he had a longer history on AK with a higher post count. I believe that I if did make the event, that my username would have been recognized and I would have been warmly welcomed or assaulted:D in a nice way! Subwolfers low post count minimized the number of folks that would recognize him by user name.

2. Subwolfer has seen the error of his ways expecting the "Audiochickfest". Let's let that go.

3. It probably is true to a degree that a lot of the attendees are old friends and could possibly make an noob feel less than welcome. That's not the fault of the "old friends" at all, it just requires the "noob" to "step up" and introduce themselves. I have enough self-confidence to do it, I have to do it in business all the time, but some don't have it or are not very comfortable with it.

4. I look forward to someday attending and believe that with a big "70salesguy" name tag, a smile. a dash of self confidence and a pair of eyes and ears ready to take it all in, that a good time will be had!

whell

05-05-2008, 07:16 AM

Here’s my $0.02. I offer this as my perspective only, and not as a critique of the initial post in the thread.

In order to understand what the AK Fest is, you really have to go back to its roots. An attendee at the first Fest could not have fathomed what this event has evolved into. The first fest was just a collection of like-minded audio enthusiasts who gathered together to talk gear and have a good time. As I recall we had 3 separate meeting rooms (note, these were not guest rooms, but actual meeting rooms) on the first floor. Two or three forum members (Craig – AKA NosValves was one, and my apologies for my lousy memory, but I can’t recall the others) brought their personal systems in for display and to enjoy the music. There was a break room which also doubled as the Swap Room. There were door prizes and a raffle, but the prizes were quite modest by today’s standards.

However, the emphasis was about chatting up each other’s gear, and listening to music. If memory serves, there were no vendors/retailers at the first Fest, though someone may correct me on that as well (at the most, one, if any). It was all about music, gear and camaraderie.

The Fest has evolved substantially over the years. Vendors now have an integral role in the success of the fest. However, the “AK member listening room” still plays a central role. No other similar audio show/venue that I’m aware of has members bringing in their systems for display and enjoyment. Since it is still, largely, “all about the music”, I think that the individual listening rooms are still the best solution. This set up simply could not be accommodated in a large meeting room venue. The competing sounds would clash and negatively impact the rather “intimate” atmosphere of the individual listening rooms.

Closed door? Yup, this was a limitation of the hotel. With the open atrium, and propagation of sound in that type of environment, we were asked to be cool with the volume controls and keep doors closed - propped open slightly to allow easy entrance for visitors - as much as possible.

Frankly, my observation is that the vendors really enjoy this set up versus a larger meeting room. They actually have folks come in, stay for as long as they like, listen to some great gear, build relationships with individuals who might actually become customers, all in a comparatively relaxing environment. And the cost of entry is darn cheap compared to C.E.S. or some similar large show.

We did have a fair number of “younger” visitors to the Fest. It would be interesting to compare their feedback to the comments of the original poster. No organization can become self sustaining unless newer, younger blood can be attracted and become interested enough to stick around. If the comments of the original poster are an aberration, than hopefully AK is on the right track. However, if the comments are shared by the “younger” attendees, it may be worth paying some significant attention to.

ekmanning5

05-05-2008, 07:37 AM

Sub Wolfer, thanks for starting this excellent thread.
You make many valid points. I too was a little nervous going into some of the rooms on Saturday. Yes, they are small, but I came to appreciate their intimicy as time went on. I originally was going to leave Sunday morning but decided to give the rooms (mostly member rooms BTW, one more listen). I'm glad I did. I became more comfortable as time went on and really had a ball. I post a lot and many members recognized my name so that helped. I agree that a DIY room might be a neat thing to experience. Maybe long time members (and vendors for that matter) could take hour long time slots and do seminars. Hey, but they are there to enjoy themselves as well. Just an idea. I did however, learn more in Squidward's room then I have in the last year. Between Ed and Dave and a guest by the name of Yvon (I think). I came away with enough ideas to carry me over until next year. You are also right about a lot of the high end gear. Much of it holds no interest to me; I can't now and probably never will be able to afford it. I did though get my first listen to McIntosh gear and am grateful for that. One of the best conversations of the two days I was there came in Classic Audio's room. A set of his speakers retails for more than the house I grew up in, but his knowledge and banter with particularely one visitor were priceless.
Driving home I too thought about a room with some more common items being played, after all most of what I have can probably be considered junk (but it's my junk and I do love it). I came to the conclusion, who would want to listen to my crap. Well, maybe you might and I would have a great time sitting and listening with you. Hey, maybe you and I could share a member's listening room next year.
To make a long story short (I know, it's way too late for that) keep posting and PLEASE think about coming again next year. You've made some good suggestions and I for one look forward to meeting you next year. :thmbsp:

Wigwam Jones

05-05-2008, 07:42 AM

One thought - I like the smaller rooms for the equipment manufactuers. At big shows like CES, the equipment is on display - it's for looking at, not listening to. And although sometimes it is not easy to listen critically even in the smaller rooms (when people are talking), it can be done. And for me, that's really what I want - to be able to hear the equipment.

I thought the rooms were remarkably quiet outside of them as well. Very little bleed-over from room to room, even with volumes up. Nice job on the hotel for that.

boxoboom

05-05-2008, 07:44 AM

Is this the Complaint forum? :D

My only problem with the fest, was that "I" only had 4 hrs to spend there Saturday! So I missed the live music (dag nabb it!) and Sunday to boot!

I am Sorry subwoofer, that your experience wasn't the greatest, but I would hardly be able to call this show lame! I never opened a door to one of the rooms and got any thing but a satisfied smile from those folks sitting in it or those operating the systems and this was my first time attending the fest and they didn't know me from adam!

I must admit, I looked at it as a sort of ham fest for stereo nuts. (you may be too young to know anything about those or care for that fact)

If you really want to see the things you where talking about, go to Las Vegas in January to the consumer electronics show.

"There you will find a big "party" atmosphere, thousands of people looking at all kinds of games, stereo's Plasma's and most any thing electronic, with plenty of scantily clad women! (sorry, had to throw that in!)

This show was a breath of fresh aire! People who I can relate to, are easy to talk to and dare I say it, As passionate about audio as I am.

I commend Grumpy and his family and all the fine members who are involved in putting on such an enjoyable show.

Next year I will make sure I have more time to spend there! :thmbsp:

Thanks Guys !

Boxoboom

botrytis

05-05-2008, 07:44 AM

dnewma04

05-05-2008, 07:55 AM

For the record, I can relate to the experience that the OP had when I attended my first fest. I didnt know what to expect and I wandered around feeling a bit uncomfortable. I knew a couple of people through the forum and ran into them which helped things out and when i found them, they were very welcoming. Kegger and Wiggy offered to bring me to the VIP room for some private dances. As tempting as it was, I stuck with meekly barging my way into rooms checking out gear. Talking to the reps of equipment I liked and being driven away from others that I found to be obnoxious sales types.

I guess one thing I did differently than you is went in without expectations and came away knowing I'd come back. One of the members I had talked to for a while via email was squidward and that was the first time I met him in person. Since then, we have developed into very good friends and even shared a demo room this year and have collaborated on some projects together.

As you get to know the other members and familiarize yourself with them and their personalities, the AKfest and even the local SMAC meets become about more than just the audio, it's an opportunity to meet some virtual friends and virtual assholes (like me) and realize that everyone has similar interests. Some of the people there just peaked into our window and moved on, other just sat and didn't say much, others talked about their porsche and hovercraft. Some wanted technical details on the components/gear, others just wanted us to play their CD or record.

I didn't know 80% of the people that popped in and I hope we didn't drive them away or act uninviting.

MrGee

05-05-2008, 08:03 AM

MrGee, I totally think that you are a bit out of line. You have to remember that his experience is different than yours. Everybody will have a different take on a situation...John

You have a right to that opinion.
Please re-read the opening post, then read post #34.
#34 is constructive criticism.
#1 was a little over the top, which my reply...influenced by hours of "road head" at 2AM...admittedly may have been.

<I bow in humble sorrow, begging forgiveness>
(said in jest to make one smile, not sarcasm to make a frown :) )

merrylander

05-05-2008, 08:08 AM

AK Fest 07 was my first and unfortunately my last, not because I was disappointed in the show but simply that the days are past for putting this warm body on airplanes.

My first audio show was in the 50s - everything was mono except for one exhibit of something called binaural. Apart from my brother neither of us knew a soul. Affordable equipment? Surely you jest, I did not see my modest Bogen DB-10 at the show. Subsequent audio shows were much the same, lovely sounding equipment at prices well outside my budget, in a hotel full of strangers.

Surprise! I now have four of the systems that I then could not afford. Better still I have many friends here at AK. A word to the wise, friends are not given to you, hence the expression "make friends". I once had a supervisor who, when we were flying to Europe, said to me after the flight - "I wish I could talk to strangers the way you can". This was in reference to the passenger sitting next to me. As I told him, you can talk to strangers and some will enter into conversation, but some will not - hey, you can't turn on everyone in this world, it is nothing personnal.

Sometimes I would have preferred to turn it off as I used to think my collar was on backwards - I have had more confessions than the average priest.:yes:

ScofieldKjv

05-05-2008, 08:35 AM

This was my first AKFEST as well and I went with 4 other guys and all 5 of us were thrilled with the experience, have no regrets and would go again.

240sx4u

05-05-2008, 08:38 AM

I didn't make the fest unfortunately. Timing was not too good, and my wheel barrow full of cash is running way low LOL.

I understand your situation, but its like that in almost any event put on by a long standing site. I meet up south of ATL every year for a car show that originated from www.hybridz.com . We all have nissans. Some of my closest car buddies attend, and that is the only time of year we meet.

It was awkward at first, these guys had big badass cars. Tons of $$ in them, and super fast. Turns out they were also down to earth and turned out to be great friends.

I say for $15 bucks, you can't go wrong trying it again.

Evan

BTW; Sitting down to listen to 10k speakers may teach you something about how equipment should sound. I had a chance to listen to 21k dollar speakers at one point, and it was worth every minute spent in front of them.

NOSValves

05-05-2008, 08:47 AM

For never being to one of these events you hit it right on the head. What I quoted from you above describes my experience to the T. Add in in expensive gear (which was way out of my league) and I think you get the picture.

I'm sure a lota folks had a great time. I just have to be honest though and express I wasn't one of them. But hey, it's OK. Me and my buddy had a couple beers and a burger and talked about the gear i recently acquired. Still had an enjoyable day. Oh, and by the way, my buddy did buy several used LP's in the Vinyl Swap room and I got a really cool old Ian Hunter LP.

Honestly young man you wasted your own time and money. You spent one hour at the fest? It was absolutely impossible to check out reasonable number of rooms at the fest in that amount of time, It sounds to me like you only visited the vendor rooms that happened to be empty or near empty at the time because of your own lack of social skills.

As far as the swap room gear goes never expect to find treasures the second day of the swap meet. The treasues are long gone 1 hour after the swap meet begins. The rule of swap meets, garage sales or flee markets has and always will be "the early bird gets the worm".

Craig

PS one complaint in your post that I absolutely agree with and for the life of me could not figure out was why many vendors #1 had there door locked so you had to knock to gain entrance and #2 had drapes pull shut so folks could not glance in and see something interesting and want to come in. My drapes were wide open and the door was always cracked open. If someone peered in and I noticed I would actually wave them in and welcome them. I would often ask if they had a disc they wanted to play. In my listening room I almost never used my own source material most of what was played was almost always something a visitor brought with them.

iphasic

05-05-2008, 08:59 AM

As a relative newb to the board also, I think I can appreciate what you're saying, SubWolfer. I'm not usually the first guy to start a conversation or to give things a chance if I'm a little apprehensive. I'm not a fan of big crowds or situations/people/places I'm unfamiliar with. Having a friend with you that isn't as interested as you are may have made it more difficult to stay longer and give it more of a chance, also.

The thing is that sometimes you have to forget all that and really do what you can to butt in (not being rude, of course) and introduce yourself. Tell people you're new. Tell them what gear you have/like and what you listen to. You might not meet everyone with the same interests or attitude, but that's how it is everywhere, with just about everything. And with any kind of show/fest you might have to wait to get into a room or exhibition.

That being said, I wasn't there and can't say how it was or wasn't in this particular case. I'm making a generalization and am only posting about it because I think I can appreciate where you're coming from, but do this: stick around the board and participate. I don't often have a lot to say but I read a lot, and the people I have met locally are great folks and I hope to meet more.

I'd like to go to the fest next year and it will probably be a little tough for me to just say "hey, I'm here" but if that's what I need to do, I'll do it. I expect that it'll be worth it.

Also... it's true that this is hobby is an overwhelming picklefest. It's no secret. Maybe we can get a Budweiser sponsorship next year and get some Bud girls to walk around? It's just a thought. :D

Twenty20Man

05-05-2008, 09:15 AM

i hearby nominate Wiggy as the official AK Spokesperson, i am also calling my attorney to have draw up a personal services contract for wiggy to be my personal spokesperson, for when i read i post i dont agree with , i could then have wiggy respond for me in his informed reasonable style...

Wiggy i do not know your vocation but unless its journelism you may have missed your mark.

good show and to the OP, what he said....

Arkay

05-05-2008, 10:07 AM

Regrettably (for me), I have yet to make it to an AKFest. :tears: I hope to next year or the year after.

Perhaps I shouldn't comment since I haven't been there, but I can imagine well what the OP is talking about, from experience at other events (both good and bad). Having organized many functions over the years (including some much larger than the Fest), perhaps I can offer a few ideas/suggestions. Many of these may already have been implemented, or may not be entirely suited to the AK Fest, but perhaps something here may help for next year:

(1) Have a map given to each person on arrival (in their "kit" - a folder with schedules, vendor's ad stuff, etc...) that clearly shows the different areas (color-coded for "vendors' rooms", "member's rooms", "communal space" or "swap-meet", etc...), so if someone like the OP comes, they can quickly and easily find what they are looking for: in this case, member's rooms with less-expensive and/or more vintage gear than the vendors' rooms.

(2) Have a "social" or "rest" area where people can go just to relax and shoot the breeze (not that they aren't doing this anyway within the rooms, but this area would be specifically for meet-and-greet type socializing with people you don't already know). This should be a more open/accessable area, with refreshments. Even just putting table signs on a couple tables or a marked-off area in the lobby or coffee shop (or a large room very close to the entrance) with a coffee/tea/smacks buffet on the side would do.

(3) I know you have name badges: are they big enough to be easily read? Do they have members' user names, real names, and place of origin? (and perhaps room for one more comment/statement by the wearer?). Makes it easier for people to approach each other.

(4) Mention was made of a live concert on Saturday evening. Excellent idea. Are there other planned events? Things like cocktail parties, maybe with some silly "mixer" games at the start, the raffle, organized meals, perhaps with guest speakers, presentations, awards (some serious, some silly), etc...

(5) How about a "college bowl" type quiz-show covering audio knowledge/audio trivia, perhaps with different categories? This could be by individuals or teams, and might be divided somehow (professionals vs. amateurs, or by number of years in the hobby/business). To make it a little more fun and less intimidating, some of the questions could be about past posts/topics/revelations on AK. It would be fun for participants, and educational for all, and give people more to talk about during and afterwards.

(6) How about having a bulletin board near the entrance, where people with rooms could post a one-page "ad" showing their picture (of themselves and/or their gear) and a blurb about what was in their room? At higher cost, the pages could be reproduced and put into a "guide book" or "program". A new (or late) arrival could look these over, and decide where they'd like to start from those descriptions and pics.

(7) Have some volunteers with experience and knowledge of the Fest --wearing something distinctive like a brightly-colored sash or cap or vest to identify them-- who could act as ushers/hosts/"introducers" to help people find things, make introductions, etc... Newbies could be pointed in the right directions by them upon arrival, and they could be told to approach anyone else dressed that way at any time, if they had questions or needed help.

(8) You could organize a "scavenger hunt" type of game to run during the Fest, with a list of things to be "found" --mostly actually puzzles or questions, the answers to which would be found scattered in the various rooms. Some of the answers might be written somewhere, but for many other answers, you'd have to ask the people in the rooms. Some could be cryptic or "hidden", within reason. Have a prize for the first person to get all the answers, and another prize to be drawn from all the entrants who get all the correct answers after that. This way, people are encouraged (and have a good excuse!) to approach people in the rooms and start speaking to them, if only to ask the questions and get the answers, in the hope of winning the prize.

(9) You could have "secret friends". The people who participate in this get a gift ready before arrival, and leave it at a designated place when they arrive. At that time, they are given the name of the person whose secret friend they are, but not the person who is their own secret friend (these friendships are "one way"). If you participate, you have to approach people and introduce yourself, in order to find out who your "secret friend" is, and only once you find them, can you both go to verify that you've found them, and claim the gift. This encourages everyone to go around and introduce themselves to others, at least until they find who their own secret friend is. Guaranteed to get more people approaching the others they don't already know/haven't already met.

Hope something amidst that lengthy drivel helps improve what I'm sure is already a great event for most attendees, and hope one day to make it to a Fest, myself (being one of those married middle-agers who really don't need the bathing beauties any more to enjoy audio ...not that I don't appreciate beauty of any kind!) :D

Ski

05-05-2008, 10:14 AM

I didn't have time to read the whole post but I'm from Lincoln Park, can't afford any of that stuff and still had a blast.

Strawman

05-05-2008, 10:26 AM

Ski was grinning ear to ear everytime I saw him. :yes:

merrylander

05-05-2008, 10:32 AM

Whoa! As this year's Fest was moved to a new hotel on rather short notice some of arkay's suggestions would have been impossible to implement. That said if next year's Fest is to be held in the same location here's an idea.

If we can get a floor layout from the hotel and an account of who has what room we could do 'You are here' layouts. I have this 36" wide DesignJet and a older version of Visio (just finished a 24 x 36 drawing of the deck restoration).

I volunteer to produce such drawings and code them as to room content, i.e., vendor, member, swap room, etc.

Kegger

05-05-2008, 10:56 AM

When you signed in there were maps showing all the rooms, who was in them
and which ones were member rooms to help guide you where you wanted to go.

Punker X

05-05-2008, 11:25 AM

There was one vendor at AK 1 - Buggtussell Loudspeakers - another sad story there :pity: .

I do think that there were some young members at the 2 I was at and they enjoyed themselves.

That said - AK Fest can't be everything to everybody because we are just not that big.

Classic Audio Reproductions was also at the first fest. Technically NOSValves was also a vendor. BrianB from Venus was also there.

Here's a link to the way back machine..

http://www.audiokarma.org/ak2004/akfest04/akfest.html

Now.. How many people attending all 5 fests, and who had had a room or equipment on display at all 5 fests.

Missed you this year Botritis.. Played That Funky Beat White Boy.. in your honor.

botrytis

05-05-2008, 11:39 AM

Classic Audio Reproductions was also at the first fest. Technically NOSValves was also a vendor. BrianB from Venus was also there.

Here's a link to the way back machine..

http://www.audiokarma.org/ak2004/akfest04/akfest.html

Now.. How many people attending all 5 fests, and who had had a room or equipment on display at all 5 fests.

Missed you this year Botritis.. Played That Funky Beat White Boy.. in your honor.

AWW SHUCKS!!!:tears:

Mark W.

05-05-2008, 12:43 PM

OK I'm still running on about 1/10th the amount of sleep a normal person would get in a 4 day stretch.

I traveled a long way to get the the FEST. I came from Silverton, Oregon It cost me a LOT of money to attend the fest.

I showed up at the airport in Detroit a Guy I would have not known on the street from Adam picked me up for no other reason then to save me the cost of a taxi ride. This same guy over the course of the weekend made a liquor store run, made sure I got out away from the hotel and had a really nice dinner heck this same guy even came in on Sunday morning and made sure we weren't dead after the attempt to poison ourselves with booze bought by a Monopoly money spending Brit. Then this same guy made sure I had a ride back to the Airport on Sunday evening. Heck he even gave me his door prize.

Mark (justrideit) is now a great friend and I meet him Saturday morning at 7:30 in front of an airport.

I get to the Hotel get my stuff into my room meeting the guy who restored my amp and tuner (we split a room) and I got the tell you meeting Rich (Pustelnickr) in the dark of a Hotel room about 3 hours after he made it to sleep is a little scary LOL. WE had a blast rooming and I'm sure Rich's looking out for me is the reason I'm still alive After all how may guys you've just meet would stay up for hours just listening to you breath. (OK maybe the 98db snoring was part of the reason he volunteered for that duty.

My Saturday at the Fest unlike the OP's went from about 7:30am when I meet Mark at the airport to sometime around 4:30 am Sunday when I passed out. In that time I meet dozens of people I didn't know shared my photo album of stereo gear and home improvement projects and grand daughters with at least 1/2 dozen women some of which were very nice to talk to (read in a very respectful way since a number of them were wives and mothers were also NICE TO LOOK AT).

I hit at least 2/3 of the rooms many I sat and listened to a song or two a couple I only spent a couple minutes in. Few I liked the sound a few I really didn't. But in every single one of them I learned something if only that I can be very happy with how my own system sounds.

I agonized over how many LP's I could handle carrying home Since I think about 5 miles of the distance I traveled to get tot he FEST was walking in airports from one corner to the other. I picked up a couple of items I had prearranged to buy there from locals so I had to be very careful on the weight.

Saturday evening one of the rooms I sat in was Retro Stereo's and we listened to some Pink Floyd on his very very nice Pioneer Spec system. All kinds of good natured ribbing back and forth. As my System is based on a Pioneer SA-9100 amp.

I meet wives and daughters and one of the cutest little girls I have even seen hanging upside down ever!

I got to hang with my buddy Steve (modge) from some silly named place in England where they name places after sheep! And even if he did try to kill me by buying me booze I still wouldn't have missed shaking his hand and meeting a guy I will talk about the rest of my life.

Fisher - Dave I wish we had spent a little more time in the same place but meeting you standing in the Breakfast line was a high point of the weekend.

And your line "I don't suppose they have grits" will stick with me for ever!!

Jack (WhiteSE) DUDE you aren't anything like I thought what a blast to sit and talk with you Sunday morning while those parts of my brain that still worked rebooted in a febble attempt to bring me back to the living. And I hope your arm patches up quick and you can get back to playing tennis.

your line "my Neighbor in Saudi Arabia had a camel in his backyard" also stand out as a high point.

Joyce (jcmjrt) Great to finally meet you and your husband I enjoyed showing off my photo's to you.

But when (and I don't remember who said it) one of the guys in Ed's room looked at your husbands name badge and seeing your Screen name on it said (I thought you were a woman) this also stands out as a great line from FEST.

ED and Daves DIY room was where I spent the most time I spent most of Sunday there hanging out was late even watching the room for a while so Ed could get away for a few minutes.

TOM all I can say is if you hadn't been at the FEST I would have felt cheated for not getting to meet you in person.

Strawman (Steve) anything I said Saturday night after being up for (according to your sons math LOL) 41+ hours Please take as the ramblings of a crazy man! I think I could have managed a full sentance if that guy from England hadn't been piling me with free Budwisers. I enjoyed meeting your son seamed like a totally cool kid.

EVERY WHERE I WENT a hand got out thrust for a shake guys were turning each other name badges around so they could find they were talking to someone they have known for a couple years. And others they had no idea who they were. EVERYONE was nice everyone was a blast to hang out with..

It was a little scarry how many people knew me from my Grand daughter avatar and the "SHRINE PHOTOS" Guess I'm not a wall flower LOL.

I even had vendors offering water or even a beer while I sat and listened to their gear.

Will I come 2/3 of the way across the country for a weekend next year NOT sure. The original OP spend some local gas money and $15.00 to be unimpressed I spent around $850.00 and had a BLAST I guess you get what you pay for. Am I glad I did it this year YOU BET.

I got to hang with the people I talk to, argue with, and look forward to sharing my hobby with.

And Retro Stereo if you read this I'm home and the SA-9100's are staying put. No Spec gear for this Dump truck driver LOL.

To Grumpy, Mrs. Grumpy, And all the people who worked so hard to organize this weekend I want to thank you it wasn't the gear it was a people that made this a wonderful adventure for me. If I can't comeback next year it's not the gear I will miss hearing it's the people of AK I will miss seeing. And I wish I could be close enough to help with the HUGE amount of HARD work you guys and gals put into to do this for US.

OK after a whopping 5.5 hours of sleep since 11:00 Sunday I doubt any of this is coherent but then why change my style now LOL..

People I had a freckin BLAST.

Wardsweb

05-05-2008, 12:51 PM

This reminds me of the story of 7 blind men describing an elephant. Each has his own interpretation given his experience. Differences are inevitable when everyone did not experience the whole thing.

botrytis

05-05-2008, 12:56 PM

Celt

05-05-2008, 12:59 PM

This reminds me of the story of 7 blind men describing an elephant.

Not to mention the poor schmuck who was positioned at the rear-end of said elephant. :)

dyeraudio

05-05-2008, 01:02 PM

I went with a buddy from Michigan for one reason. To see what all the hype is about. We both left very satisfied in knowing that you don't need to spend a fortune...YES a fortune to have good sound. We both have almost identical system ...i.e. (Carver, PS Audio and Linn). We listened to our own CD's in most rooms and we found ONE room that we actaully enjoyed. Ridge Street Cables room.....The Mac room...very impressive to eyes but not ears....I have probably about $2000 in my system that includes an amp capable of 380 w.p.c., vacuum tube cd player and a decent pre-amp. Speakers are LINN from Scotland and all cableing is PS Audio highest grade bi-wires. Don't get me wrong...the people we're nice and I actually met some members..exhibitors were friendly and you could turn up the volume but overall it was disappointing.....But I did get my answer....I wish there were more exhibitors.....AK did a great job and I am not bashing the fest at all. One thing nice to see was the abundance of vacuum tube cd players and the ability to fill rooms with 8, 10 and 12 watts ...respectively........I will not attend again but its not because I didn't enjoy myself.

toxcrusadr

05-05-2008, 01:15 PM

This reminds me of the story of 7 blind men describing an elephant. Each has his own interpretation given his experience. Differences are inevitable when everyone did not experience the whole thing.

I just wanted to say, I haven't been to the Fest yet, but I've really enjoyed this thread. I understand what it is more than I did before. And the objective tone of the discussion is gratifying. :thmbsp:

Arkay made what sound to me like some great suggestions a few posts back. There's a man with a gift of looking at something like this from a systems perspective. I attend a lot of conferences and meetings and I always walk around saying "how come there isn't a sign for this, or a map to that, or this kind of space to do such and such." Wise advice worth considering (again, from a non-attender, just speaking generally).

One more suggestion: how about badges with not only the AK username but also their post count? You'd be able to recognize relative newbies and maybe that would help in the welcoming department.

I empathize with Subwolfer a bit - us shy people can be alone in a crowd quite easily. Probably not a fault of the Fest though.

Rock on y'all. :tresbon:

Bauhausler

05-05-2008, 01:33 PM

Well, one afternoon early this Spring I was minding my own business doing a little gardening in my front yard. Up rolls this red truck, the window comes down and Grumpy says "If you don't show up this year we're going to come over and drag you there"
Did I mention they don't call him Grumpy because Sneezy was already taken and Bashful didn't fit?
Well, after a couple of years of not finding the time I decided to make a weekend of it. I spent 6 - 7 hours at the hotel both days. I missed a few rooms that I really should have spent more time in. I particularly enjoyed the member rooms because inspired DIY is one of the most admirable occupations I know of. I sort of take for granted that the Manleys can make a great sounding tube amp, but when a guy on a budget builds his own and the music leaves me speechless that's an accomplishment that I really respect.
It wasn't perfect. Some of the big speakers needed different rooms. I'd have liked more convenient lunches, although any male who missed meeting the waitresses at Doc's bar really needs to find a reason to go back.
One thing that was ideal was the people. Reps and attendees, every one was courteous and friendly even when it was crowded, noisy or the elevator took too long.
I can't wait until next year. Maybe I'll bang together an amp and a pair of speakers with EconoWaves in them to demo. At the least I should invite a few people over for a beer. Maybe even sooner than that.

ricmon

05-05-2008, 01:54 PM

It was my first Fest as well. But my impression was just the opposite. Maybe my age 49, 50 next month. I got a buddy to come with me who has never been to a audio show and does not have a hi-fi system and he said he had a blast and when we got back to DC he called before he went to bed to thank me again for the experience. So maybe us older guys don't give a damn because each room I went into I just jumped right in. Pulled out my lp's and said "hey can you play this for me". I didn't care 2 cents what the response might have been.

Halcro1

05-05-2008, 02:07 PM

Hello , I liked the fest i drove from Milw with the wife and daughter ,, and it was nice , actually i wish you had a few more vendors but that comes with time ,, People were nice as could be expected . I went to an audio fest in Chicago 8 to 10 years ago it was bigger but not that much different small hotel rooms , but what do you expect 20x20 room? The only issue i had were the slow elevators ... Other than that nice show i will be back. How bout posting the names of the raffle winners... Mike

BajaGringo

05-05-2008, 02:32 PM

I didn't care 2 cents what the response might have been.

Kudos to all of you who are the types that don't care if you know a single soul at an event like this and will have a great time and get much from the experience as a factor of your personality type, age and life experience.

Not everyone is like you.

In all of your attempts to somehow counter or minimize the authenticity of SubWolfer's experience because it wasn't YOUR experience is to miss the point of this. It will only limit the growth and scope of this venue in the future.

Many have harped on the fact that he spent only an hour at the Fest, questioning how he could have really experienced all the rooms. My guess is that if he walked into a room with a group of people, feeling like he had interrupted their conversation and no effort was made on their part to reach out to him and involve him, he probably wouldn't last more than a minute or two. Repeating that experience from room to room means that he could have seen a lot of rooms in an hour. If that had been my experience I probably wouldn't have had a generally overall warm fuzzy feeling about the event either.

Events like this have to decide what they want to be. If you want it to be purely a reunion type event among old friends then that is what it will be. If you want to use the event to promote the forum and grow, you have to accept that a concerted effort needs to be made to welcome and include the newbies. Especially those who don't find it easy to assimilate based on personality, age difference and other reasons that might keep them from making the first step to reach out and connect. I am sure that your sponsors would prefer the latter option.

Accepting these shortcomings of the event is not to minimize or criticize the event or the hard work and efforts of those who put so much of their time into making it happen. It is taking an honest look at what has a happened and using that analysis to make future events an even bigger success.

Events of this type on a larger scale always do a post event critical analysis and ask for the comments of attendees. The comments from those who offered negative remarks are those which are focused on most as those are the ones that will help the most in the future. Everyone likes to be patted on the back but to grow you have to be able to take criticism in a positive way.

And that's my dos centavos...

:music:

Cantabury Guy

05-05-2008, 02:35 PM

I just started to read this thread and this was probably mentioned: No girls (women ) around.....sounds like something The Wife would let me go to!!

fotno

05-05-2008, 02:53 PM

Baja Gringo:

I understand where the OP (and you for that matter) are coming from; but do you honestly think that the majority of the people who trekked to the fest, some of them traveling hundreds, even thousands of miles, came solely to listen to gear? You can do that at audio retailers the world over.

They traveled all that way to be with their friends, and make new ones. I know these people well enough to say with surety, that anyone who came to the fest and felt left out, or excluded, mostly has themselves to blame.

How hard is it to stick out a hand, state your name, and get involved in the conversation. The OP ain't gonna learn how to meet people any younger...

botrytis

05-05-2008, 03:19 PM

As I said earlier, Baja, it was his own doing as he only stayed an hour. Heck, you could probably stay one hour in one room.

I am a shy person by nature but I do force myself to meet people. If you don't do it with people you have things in common with - who will you do it with?

This is AUDIOKARMA - ALL AUDIO and of course good MATES!!!

Kegger

05-05-2008, 03:23 PM

Yes BAJAGRINGO, sorry but you are just wrong on this one,

The fest is full of nice people wanting and yearning to share, there are no needs
to be taken care of for the newbie, that person just needs to be willing and able
to give the fest a shot and it will provide for them a great experience.
(It is extremely well run)

As everyone has said the fest takes time to get through and understand, yu just
have to put forth the effort, plain and simple.
(Best place to start, members rooms)

Showing up and spending 1 hour saying this is lame and leaving aint gunna cut it!

Not saying that wasn't his feelings, I'm sure it was, but you need to give it time an
get past your initial thoughts of what you thought it would be and see it for what it
is by spending some time there and give it a chance. That's all that needs to be done.

The fest grows and changes are made every year to make it better then the last, but
it still comes down to the attendee to see it and see it with an open mind. Improvements
are made every year, many debates are made over those changes to try and improve it.

You just have to see it and let it invlove you. The fest is what it's suppose to be.

wajobu

05-05-2008, 03:25 PM

I think that one response might be to spend some quality time here online at AK and get to know some folks. Soon you'll find that you have many things in common with a whole bunch of other AK members. Attend a couple of local get-togethers and then try the Fest again next year. :dunno:

I have made some very good friends here, and MAN it was hard to leave yesterday and get on the plane to return home (a couple of days just wasn't enough time). There are some great folks here. Yes, it's about audio, but also about the friendships (at least for me) that tie some of us together.

In many respects I feel totally incapable of understanding many of the technical aspects of this hobby (both on the solid state and tube side), but one thing for certain is that there are so many folks here ready and willing to share their knowledge. I sat in awe of the equipment (new and old) and the people who put many of these (especially DIY) pieces together. I have many people here to thank for my rekindled interest in audio, music and solid friendships. :yes:

Many of the new systems are certainly out of my reach, but it doesn't hurt to dream a bit :music:

Give it another try, and as suggested visit an SMAC gathering (I'm too far away, but just love to see the photos).

pustelniakr

05-05-2008, 03:39 PM

wajobu

05-05-2008, 03:40 PM

And kind sir, it was my distinct pleasure meeting you and having time to set-a-spell :yes:

Strawman

05-05-2008, 04:10 PM

Mama specifically told me "NO DANCING GIRLS!" and put a note in one of my shirt pockets showing herself with an automatic weapon in hand :uzi:.

Tunes, suds, and a bunch of old men chewing fat, are just fine with me. I came 3000+ miles for just that. So there :bigok:

Enjoy,
Rich P

Old men?
Ring ring, hello pot, this is kettle calling. :D This is what I'm talking about. I've recieved technical guidance from that gentleman, good natured ribbing in threads and chat, and was just thrilled to meet the man and shake his hand, among many others. I just think a little more time and involvement here just might change his mind and anybody that reads the original post and doesn't think the investment pays out.

Wigwam Jones

05-05-2008, 04:18 PM

The only issue i had were the slow elevators ...

Ha! You would not be complaining if you had seen last year's elevator. It like to stop about a foot short of level with the floor you wanted - plus or minus - and you could jump or climb the difference.

The gig was also on like the bazillionth floor, so walking up the stairs was right out for anyone with a few pounds and a few beers on them.

And walking down the stairs was an exercise in vomit control, since the whole thing stank of urine.

This year's venue was GREAT!!!!

I'll take the slow elevators ANY DAY!

Bauhausler

05-05-2008, 04:21 PM

I just started to read this thread and this was probably mentioned: No girls (women ) around.....sounds like something The Wife would let me go to!!

Sadly, you're more or less right about the absence of females not directly employed by the event.
I didn't even ask my wife if she wanted to go. She would have said no, but if she had gone she would have had a great time. She loves music and when she's really enjoying herself, can't resist dancing. That's the kind of enthusiast that the audio hobby needs more of. Luckily for them, they know when the music is more important than the gear and tend to spend on recordings and not playback gear.
If I get the joint straightened up here I hope to host a SMAC meeting before the next FEST so maybe she will meet more people besides Pakprotector, Grumpy, Kamakiri, Wardsweb, Andyman and those she met at the 2004 Fest.

RichPA

05-05-2008, 04:28 PM

I think my wife, who visited most of the listening rooms with me and met a lot of AKers, would be offended to learn that there were "no women" at the Fest.

botrytis

05-05-2008, 04:45 PM

I think my wife, who visited most of the listening rooms with me and met a lot of AKers, would be offended to learn that there were "no women" at the Fest.

He meant like at the autoshow were guys ogle them in all the scanty-cladded glory. You know the ones that point at the car but don't realize they are in front of a car!!

Kuma

05-05-2008, 04:47 PM

Even though Squdward said I was supposed to be a Japanese woman,
I really enjoyed my time listening to him, Kegger, other AK Members' rooms - they gave me inspiration to complete all my projects!

Strawman

05-05-2008, 05:34 PM

If anybody could convince you to get get going on your tube projects Kuma, it would be those 2 guys. Throw in PakProtector, MrClassicman & Dnewman, and you'll be firing up that soldering iron. :thmbsp:

Negotiableterms

05-05-2008, 05:38 PM

I think the OP has some good points. In other ways, he's kinda off-target. The Fest, and all audio shows, are stuck with a few physical, economic and social constraints:

1. The exhibitors MUST be in separate rooms. Otherwise, demos become volume contests and everyone is miserable. Every audio show in the world is done this way, from CES and RMAF, all the way to Manchester, England, Munich, Germany, and Hong Kong. The "large hall" exhibits at CES are not intended for serious demos, and most of the stuff in them isn't dedicated audio. The real audio stuff is in the top floors of the Venetian, all in separate suites.

2. AK Fest isn't CES, and Detroit isn't Vegas. We can't charge $5,000 for an exhibit room in the Venetian, only $850 for the Embassy Suites. OTOH, attendees don't have to pay the airfare to Nevada and $500/night for a room at those "special" CES rates.

3. Expensive new gear is what pays for the show, and the site. Take it away, and you have to go back to 7 rooms and 200 AK members. I absolutely believe those guys had a truly great time, and I wish I'd been there! But without growth and younger members, the whole thing goes stagnant and dies of old age in a short while. Today's expensive new gear is tomorrow's vintage, and today's vintage is tomorrow's antiques. Once they become antiques, the price rises to beyond the level of today's stuff. Besides, The whole reason many of us got into vintage was to recapture stuff we saw and heard when we were kids and couldn't remotely afford.

4. When you enter a room, what you encounter is largely random. Because 3/4 of the folk are non-member walk-ins, you might see a group that knows one another, and you might see a group that has nothing in common except audio. In one hour, you don't get enough of a sampling to make conclusions. I know this for an absolute truth based on walking in and out of my own room at the Fest. I'd wander a bit, come back, and not know anyone in there. Other times, I knew some folk, and occasionally, everyone. Those rare occasions were definitely the most fun, but the other 90% of the time, I had to introduce myself... or just sit there and listen.

5. I'm fairly anti-social. Rich PA probably has some yummy pills that will fix it, but until that happens, I have to make an effort to meet new people. Sadly, I also have the worst memory for faces and names, so I frequently do my best "deer-in-the-headlights" impression when I see someone I met and talked to last year, and I have a damn hard time linking real-life people with their AK personalities. As a result, I tend to be quiet initially while I struggle to figure out who the hell I'm really in the room with. The point is that unless you're one of those lucky folks that auto-remembers faces, names, and AK monikers, or gets them all instantly, every time you enter a room is a small trial. I don't think I'm alone in this, and believe me, it's worse than being a newbie, since a lot of folk are wondering why you're not saying hi. As a newbie, if you listen for a while, then chime in, no one thinks you're ignoring them, and almost everyone will be friendly.

6. If anyone can figure out how to fill an audio show with interested women, your listening room at the Fest will be free, forever, and the existing membership will keep you supplied with all the hooch you can drink. The OP has yielded that it's not a valid criticism, but it goes beyond that, to the level of dreaming of miracles. OTOH, the women that are there are amongst the finest examples of their gender, IMHO.

For next year, we can do more to welcome newbies. I'm against the post-count idea; but perhaps a "New Member" sticker for anyone that requests one? That way, if you want some extra attention, you can get it, and if you don't, you can always hide in my room. Besides, we can put one on Eric's badge when he's not looking.

Other suggestions, like seminars, etc. all become possible as the show grows. If we can take the whole place next year, the hotel will care less about the doors being closed. We could have a specific area of the hotel for vintage, with members rooms or other rooms set up to educate in particular areas, like DIY tube gear, restoration, etc. That's a HUGE increase in size, and a risk level that will have Dave sleepless for weeks before.

The good news? The hotel already called Dave to make sure we're coming back. The exhibitors were so happy with this year that they're spreading the word for next year. 09 will be bigger and better.

To the OP, come on back and give it another try!

Andyman

05-05-2008, 05:40 PM

I have read every response and I know that from what I've read, I'm in the minority. But let me summarize a few points:

1.) It's obvious this is a guys hobby. I'm a guy just like y'all and I love good sounding audio. But I was mistaken to bring the male to female ratio into my reasoning for the disappointing experience I had. I guess I just didn't have a real good feel for walking into these small rooms with all y'all talking amongst yourselves and having a good time. When I walked in not knowing a single soul, I just felt like I was interrupting. Its much easier for me to approach women in this type of setting than men. Thus it made it doubly hard to feel at ease. But regardless, this was not the reason I started this thread so please disregard any comments pertaining to the the lack of women at the AK Fest. That was an inappropriate comment and certainly not any ones fault or something that I should have taken issue with.

2.) Perhaps I walked in with certain expectations when I should have had an open mind. But I can't help the feel and vibe I got. I was definitely an outsider there. It was quite clear this was a family and I just didn't get the feeling I was related. This is probably what caused me to to not enjoy it as much as I was expecting to. I've been to many a show and expo type setups. I never been to one that had such a inner-circle type setting and i guess i was not prepared for such.

3.) The layout was not at all what I was expecting. Small listening rooms I expected. I just didn't realize that EVERY room was going to be a small motel type room. I thought it was going to be more spread out and open. I was wrong though and this too, contributed to my disappointment.

So I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm sorry for not seeing things the way y'all do. You know the old sayin, that you can't please everyone. It sounds like most had a great time. So just keep on with what you do. It's not like I meant to rain on your parade. No sir. I just need to find my nitch with this stuff and I guess AK Fest wasn't it for me. But since it is "right in my backyard" and I know now what its all about, maybe down the road I can give it another shot. The only thing I would like to see changed is what I referred to in #3. I think that one thing would make it more noob friendly.

Well, I've read most of the posts in this thread and think this one by the OP petty much sums a lot of it up, at least for him; he just expected something different and rather than go with the flow, seemed to shut down.

FWIW, the expectation that it would be like the Great North American Auto Show speaks volumes, since these two events are practically diametrically opposed. One is a mega million dollar extravaganza promoted by some of the biggest companies in the world with a spare no expense attitude and a desire to seduce you into showrooms at a later date with smarmy talk and half nekkid wimmen. The other is a labor of love, scrimped together by a non profit hobbyist forum, and massively dependent upon the volunteer efforts of hundreds of hours by members to celebrate our common love of music and the gear that sings for us.

As to feeling like an outsider, well the Fest is really a lot like the forum; you just need the nerve to speak rather than type. Maybe the OP has more "keyboard courage" that social ease, but it seems ironic that he can post this thread, but not ask someone to spin a CD or talk about the speakers that are being played??

Bottom line is that the Fest can't be all things to all people, and just like the forum, some folks prefer to jump in and post, while others prefer to lurk in the shadows. AK is like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it and I hope to hell it stays that way. We are who we are, and don't need to be reinventing this wheel just to try to please everybody, and certainly not someone who only spends an hour at an event covering almost a full floor of a hotel; I'm astonished that anyone with any interest in audio couldn't find anything engaging in all those rooms. :dunno:

All YOU have to do is turn the handle, walk in, and smile.