One caveat before I give y’all my perspective. I'm a noob and this is a total noob's perspective of AK Fest. But we're all entitled to our opinion and I wanted to share my experience. So please don't get angry or flame me.

First off, I’m certainly no expert on hi-fi audio, as I have only recently been bitten by the vintage audio bug. As far as really high-end two channel audio components go, I have very limited experience. Never-the-less, I discovered this really friendly forum and have nothing but good things to say about AK.org; Very friendly people, excellent info and mostly very helpful advice from AK members.

I read and perused various forums here on AK, asking for help and advice. In doing so, discovered and read about AK Fest. Well, since I reside here in Michigan and AK Fest was being held practically right in my backyard, I told a buddy of mine (who was quite surprised by my sudden interest in hi-fi audio and vintage stereo) about it. I asked him if he wanted to go check it out. He could not make it on Saturday, which was fine with me because I felt it might be very crowded that day, and plus, May 3 was the first Saturday in May, Kentucky Derby Day!

Sunday morning my buddy and I went to the AK Fest and arrived about 10:00 AM. Very nice hotel very friendly people, But I'm going to be totally honest and not sugarcoat anything.. My very brief and blunt perception was… a big let-down. I thought it was really lame and so did my buddy. We were both totally disappointed and felt it was highly over-rated.

I guess I didn’t know what to expect at AK Fest. The Fest seemed as though it was all about super high-end gear that was way out of my league, like speakers that cost $10,000 a pair. And check this, I just recently bought a used Pioneer integrated amp and used Paradigm speakers for off eBay. I also recently bought an old vintage 60's Pioneer tube tuner. But still, I certainly thought there would be something for everyone at the Fest. That was not to be. They had one tiny room with some older used stuff, which in my opinion wasn’t even worth putting on eBay, let alone on display and for sale at an audio show.

The show itself was, well… I thought it sucked to be totally blunt. All these very small, single hotel rooms that all had their doors shut and the blinds closed. When you walked in, it felt like you were interrupting something. Not that anyone was rude mind you. But I just didn’t feel comfortable. Especially after walking into a few of the rooms (remember, you had to actually open the door, you couldn’t just freely walk in) with this feeling like I was disturbing the occupants. Not anything like I expected, that’s for sure.

I live here in Michigan and every year we have the International North America Auto Show, held in Detroit. I’m sure y’all know what that’s about. It’s really awesome. I kind of thought this would be somewhat similar. Sure, I knew there were going to be some listening rooms set up, but I expected there to be some wide open areas as well, big conference rooms that you could just walk around and check stuff out. But again, this was not to be. Every room was a tiny little single hotel room with the doors closed that had occupants engaged in what felt like some private affairs. It felt like I was intruding, due mostly to the fact of how small each room was and the closed doors. It was like walking into an auto dealership and entering the room where the salesman is speaking to a perspective client in a small cubicle. It just wasn’t a very open, inviting atmosphere. And no vintage audio gear to boot. If there was, I didn’t see it because after trespassing into several rooms, we left.

Total time spent at the AK Fest; just over an hour at a cost of $15. It just wasn’t what I expected. I guess if you know everyone and want to get into BS sessions, it could be fun. But that’s not what I went there for. At least at the Auto Show, even if you don’t care for checking out all the newest cars, there’s other exhibits and something for everyone, including attractive female models. I found the AK Fest to be nothing but two floors of un-inviting tiny hotel rooms with expensive high-end audio and old men engaged in uninteresting private conversation.

My first and probably last AK Fest, I'm sorry to say.

Sorry you feel that way.

I remember my first trip to the fest, yes it did seem a bit odd not really knowing folks but before I left, I was feeling right at home. When it was time to leave, why it was kinda hard to walk away from.Should have gave it a little time, I mean folks are excited after waiting a year to meet up again, so sure they gonna be bullshitting. I know I did. LOL, I bullshit more each time I go as folks only become closer :thmbsp:

Each listening room had a place to sit and listen to the systems :yes:

Sorry you feel that way.

Each listening room had a place to sit and listen to the systems :yes:

True that, a love seat style sofa that could accommodate two adults. Glad I went Sunday rather than Saturday. Can't imagine trying to walk in those tiny rooms with any type of crowd there, and it wasn't like it was a ghost town on Sunday, either.

I reckon if I could have walked into each room with a full understanding of what to expect and realized that you had to sort of "fit in" to get the most out of it, maybe then I would have got something out of it. But I had a buddy with me and he had the exact same impression I did. He actually felt like they shouldn't charge a dime for admission. But I told him I'd buy him a couple beers to make up for leading him on and talking it up. I was disappointed to say the least. And none, I mean not one female, except for the check-in gals. it was just boring I thought, I wasn't wowed except for the price tags on some of the gear.

And don't get me wrong, I didn't go there hoping to see hot chicks dancing wildly or expecting a freakin party :no: (although it would have helped). But the atmosphere was so dry that it made me want to leave after just 10 minutes of being there. And the extremely expensive gear and all the older men BS'n, it just wasn't what I would call "fun" at all. How anyone found it to be is beyond me. Would have been a little more enjoyable to at least have some women to talk to. I don't know. maybe I aint "mature" enough to appreciate the Fest. But I just felt that there was nothing "festive" about the "Fest" in my opinion.

As you say, you are definatly entitled to your oppinion, but you really didn't
give the fest a fair chance as you really need to spend some time there and
check things out a bit, sure there's a bunch of high end/expensive gear in a
good bit of the rooms, but there's also some moderatly priced things as well
(the fest is really paid for by the exhibitors) plus there is plenty of DIY and
vintage there to in the members rooms which were scattered in with the big
manufacturers, the fest is large and it does take some time to see it all/and
or what one might be looking for.

Hope you give it another shot next year, look for the members rooms, they'll
give you more of what you were looking for.

I have never gone to one of these events but I have had the opportunity to attend similar venues from online forums. My experience in general is that if one goes to such an event that has a history, you will find that your first time will be a bit difficult as they all seem to know each other and you will feel like the odd man out. It happens. My suggestions...

For the "newbies" - make an effort to go up to folks and introduce yourself and include your online handle. Tell them where you are from and that this is your first time. In other words, "break the ice..."

For the "veterans" - it can be intimidating for someone coming for the first time with not a single friendly face around. Especially if you are all in your own little groups and the conversation stops the minute a newbie walks in and you are all staring at him/her like they just stepped off an alien spaceship. Be the first to extend your hand and introduce yourselves. Invite the newbie into the conversation and find some common ground. Remember what it's like to be in his/her shoes...

I wasn't aware it was only high end / high $$$ gear. I thought there would be a lot of old and hard to find gear as well in addition to some gear members brought to sell/show. A balance would be good to offer broader appeal.

But what do I know...

:music:

True that, a love seat style sofa that could accommodate two adults. Glad I went Sunday rather than Saturday. Can't imagine trying to walk in those tiny rooms with any type of crowd there, and it wasn't like it was a ghost town on Sunday, either.

Some of the rooms were quite crowded, but many were empty a good part of the day Sunday. And it ebbed and flowed - if there was a room you wanted to get into, sometimes just waiting for a song to end could make the difference.


I reckon if I could have walked into each room with a full understanding of what to expect and realized that you had to sort of "fit in" to get the most out of it, maybe then I would have got something out of it. But I had a buddy with me and he had the exact same impression I did.


Well, I have to say I'm honestly not sure what you mean there. We have all types at AK. From the outgoing to the fairly introverted. I didn't know what to expect in each room (this was my 2nd Fest) and I just barged right in and plopped myself down. Never noticed anything amiss - perhaps my skin is too thick?


He actually felt like they shouldn't charge a dime for admission. But I told him I'd buy him a couple beers to make up for leading him on and talking it up. I was disappointed to say the least. And none, I mean not one female, except for the check-in gals.


Yeah, well there I think you're a little off-base. I won't flame you, but you know, if you want hot chicks, go to a bar. This is AK, and a very large contingent of us are typical middle-class, middle-aged, men. Sure, some women get into audio gear, and some husbands and wives share an interest and come to these things together. But really - most of us are a bit past the need to see a swimsuit model explain the characteristic curve of a new speaker design.


it was just boring I thought, I wasn't wowed except for the price tags on some of the gear.


If you were bored, then yes, you were probably in the wrong place. It's not glam and glitter. Pricey? Hey, I'm in the same boat you are - I could not afford one of those speakers - hell, I could not afford one of the cables they used to hook 'em up.

But - I did get to listen to them. And you know, it is great to be able to hear what 'top of the line' sounds like from time to time. And especially in an environment where there is no pressure on you to buy anything - nobody sizing you up or pre-qualifying you or trying to figure out how much disposable income you may have. I'm intimidated walking into the high-end audio salons, frankly. I'm not able to buy that gear and I feel like I'm wasting their time going in there. But at AK, they come to me.


And don't get me wrong, I didn't go there hoping to see hot chicks or expecting a freakin party. :no: But the atmosphere, the extremely expensive gear, all the older men BS'n, it just wasn't what I would call "fun" at all.

Well, as to being old, we're old. Sorry. Deal with it. I'm 47 this July. What would you like me to do about it? Wave a magic wand and be 20 again?

I'll tell you this - for all that being 20 was cool and fun and all - I am currently in a situation where I rent a room in a house in Royal Oak with three 20-something guys, and half the time they wake me up when they come in wrecked at 3 in the morning, and I've found more than one of them face-down in their own puke when I leave for work in the morning. I'm pretty happy at 47. Really.

How anyone found it to be is beyond me. There was nothing "festive" about the "Fest" in my opinion.

I'm guessing that a lot of us older men who stood around BS'ing found it interesting - and yes, I am going to guess it is beyond you. Not trying to be insulting, but you have to get old before you understand old. Our advantage is that we've been your age - you haven't been ours.

I hope you'll give the Fest a try again sometime. Maybe a different set of expectations would help - and I mean that in a positive and hopefully helpful way. Consider it a chance to audition lots of very expensive gear without being hassled. Grow a bit of a thicker skin and just walk in any room you like and deposit yourself on the sofa. Even bring some of your favorite music (I got turned on to Modest Mouse yesterday, interesting stuff) and make the sales guy play that for you. They'll do it, trust me. Hell, it might even clear out some of the old guys.

Oh and one last thing - did you check out the 'AK Member' rooms? Lots of AK guys had their DIY, low-cost, vintage, and other non-nose-bleed expensive stuff there. Some of it sounded terrific!

THAT, I can afford.

The nice thing about AK and AK Fest for me is that I can go there with a bunch of guys who have WAY more money than I do, and while they might be able to buy that top-end kit and I can't - they never act like they're better than me. That means a lot to me.

Sub,

AK isn't solely about "vintage" audio although a lot of us here enjoy vintage gear. Listening to music is an intimate, "private", and individual experience. It's nearly impossible to properly listen to music in a "big conference room" with most home audio.

And like "auto shows" it should be fun checking out what the hot performers are, like a Maserati, Lotus or any other exotic and expensive automobile. The Fest gives the vendors and sponors a place to show off their best.

As for the old guys sitting around talking, most are good friends and they have some very interesting things to say.

If you hang around here long enough, you'll get a better understanding of it all.

I can relate to what SubWolfer wrote. I'm new to the hobby and also found the event to be different than I expected, but I still had a great time. I do think it would be nice if there was some sort of "newbie" room or orientation session next year. On that note, perhaps some official seminars on things like replacing speaker surrounds or cleaning out a Salvation Army receiver with Deoxit.

Please understand, this is just one mans opinion. A first-timer and a very inexperienced audio fan. I certainly don't want tot take anything away from the enjoyment other audiophile veterans got from the Fest experience. I just didn't get that same sense of satisfaction and just felt it was way over-rated. And one thing I can say for sure, being a noob to vintage audio and and hi-fi stereo, this show didn't help me or educate me at all. I was hoping that it would but it did not. I guess what really turned me off the most was the tiny rooms. If there was more than 5 people in there it felt cramped. Maybe I'm a little claustrophobic. Or perhaps I just didn't like being in a tiny room with all guys. Some rooms I just opened the door and peeked in, didn't even want to walk in cause the vibe was just strange. Again. if there would been some females in there dancing or some laughing and a festive vibe, I woulda felt different and probably enjoyed it. But sorry, IMHO, it was lame. Guess it aint for everyone.

While I can relate to everything SubWolfer wrote. I'm new to the hobby and also found the event to be different than I expected, but I still had a great time. I do think it would be nice if there was some sort of "newbie" room or orientation session next year. On that note, perhaps some official seminars on things like replacing speaker surrounds or cleaning out a Salvation Army receiver with Deoxit.

Those are good ideas. Nobody liked my idea of having a Bose Toss contest.

But I would happily volunteer to terrorize, I mean tenderize, I mean terminate, I mean, show the newbies around and 'splain things to them if that would help.

And by the by - I think Squidward has to be given some cred here - he was very welcoming - anyone who stopped by his room got a warm invite, was offered a seat and conversation, and he always explained what he was showing off (his own tube amps) and how he built them, and he even tried to evangelize (in a nice and gentle way) how easy it was to DIY a tube amp - I nearly memorized his whole speech after hearing about five times while I was taking pictures of his tube amp innards. Squidward went the extra mile - he was the true AK Ambassador of DIY Funk, and I think he should be thanked for it.

Sorry our new guy here didn't make it by his room!

I think that if we can keep this topic above board there might be a lot of value for both newbies and veterans. I would like to hear the perspective of more newbies and veterans. An honest conversation with no hurt feelings would only help to make the next event an even bigger success. It is easy to see how such an event in the beginning would tend to be a get-together between good friends but as years pass and the event grows it is probably a good idea to accept that the scope and venue will change in size and dynamic.

I would like to attend a fest in the future and I would be interested to hear what folks on both side of the issue think...

:music:

Please understand, this is just one mans opinion. A first-timer and a very inexperienced audio fan. I certainly don't want tot take anything away from the enjoyment other audiophile veterans got from the Fest experience. I just didn't get that same sense of satisfaction and just felt it was way over-rated. And one thing I can say for sure, being a noob to vintage audio and and hi-fi stereo, this show didn't help me or educate me at all. I was hoping that it would but it did not. I guess what really turned me off the most was the tiny rooms. If there was more than 5 people in there it felt cramped. Maybe I'm a little claustrophobic. Or perhaps I just didn't like being in a tiny room with all guys. Some rooms I just opened the door and peeked in, didn't even want to walk in cause the vibe was just strange. Again. if there would been some females in there dancing or some laughing and a festive vibe, I woulda felt different and probably enjoyed it. But sorry, IMHO, it was lame. Guess it aint for everyone.

OK, well, I'm really trying to be nice and you were very polite and said not to flame you, so I really don't want to.

But what you're saying is that you wanted the room layout to be different - well it is a hotel, not sure how that happens, do we tear out the walls for you? And you want the male-female ratio to be different - ok go round up some willing female audiophiles, I guess - good luck, we haven't been too good at that ourselves up to now, and you have a 'too many guys' tweek - well sorry, but really, son, I spent six years in the Marines sleeping in a room with 80 other guys, if five or so bother you, you might consider that you've got an issue going on there. And as to the laughing and dancing. Well, I laughed the whole time (ask anyone) and hell man, I'll dance for you, but you'll probably claw your own eyeballs out to get the memory out of your brain.

Seriously, I'm sorry you didn't dig it. But you're not showing that you're willing to do much more than show up and say 'entertain me'. Hey, wasn't that a song?

Sorry to hear that the Fest wasn't your cup of tea, but to me the Fest represents the camaraderie that AK is all about.

I only wish that I were fortunate enough to have been able to attend something that was "was being held practically right in my backyard" as you say. For me, the Fest is a couple thousand miles away-- maybe next year! :thmbsp:

Putting together faces with the online community that AK is, and spending time with those faces, in real time-- sharing experiences and laughs seems to be what the real spirit of AK is about anyway.

Hell, if I wanted to see a bunch of females dancing around there's plenty of places for that sort of thing, and car shows too.

No flame, just my 2 cents, and my appreciation for your point of view, and more so, for AudioKarma and what it represents to me.

Yes if you really wanted the Vintage or an AK feeling or a DIY thing one really
did need to make a point to get to the members rooms, there you would have
gotten that experience you went there to find and maybe learn something to.

I have never gone to one of these events but...

For the "veterans" - it can be intimidating for someone coming for the first time with not a single friendly face around. Especially if you are all in your own little groups and the conversation stops the minute a newbie walks in and you are all staring at him/her like they just stepped off an alien spaceship.

For never being to one of these events you hit it right on the head. What I quoted from you above describes my experience to the T. Add in in expensive gear (which was way out of my league) and I think you get the picture.

I'm sure a lota folks had a great time. I just have to be honest though and express I wasn't one of them. But hey, it's OK. Me and my buddy had a couple beers and a burger and talked about the gear i recently acquired. Still had an enjoyable day. Oh, and by the way, my buddy did buy several used LP's in the Vinyl Swap room and I got a really cool old Ian Hunter LP.

Yes if you really wanted the Vintage or an AK feeling or a DIY thing one really
did need to make a point to get to the members rooms, there you would have
gotten that experience you went there to find and maybe learn something to.

Me and Kegger could both dance for you. Oooh, baby. Makes me fell warm all over.

So you let your own fear and discomfort (and lack of women) turn you away from a potential learning experience. You get of life exactly what you put into it; no more, and no less.

Sorry to hear that the Fest wasn't your cup of tea, but to me the Fest represents the camaraderie that AK is all about.


I wasn't even there so I can only try to read between the lines. You mention the "camaraderie" and I understand the value in that. So imagine the perspective of a newbie who walks into rooms where he feels like he is breaking up private conversations between friends. It is not a very comfortable feeling and probably contributed to him wanting to make an early escape and not having an overall good feeling about the event. Maybe some of the old timers who arrive knowing many or most of the faces could make an effort to help reach out to the new faces. I would if I wanted to help make the event continue to grow.

More people means more exposure for the sponsors meaning more support from them. Just seems like common sense.

But what do I know...

:music:

OK I'm tired, time to crash, 3 days of staying up till 4am and partying with a
bunch of good people has taken it's tole on me, peace brothers!

I welcomed anyone and everyone into my room with a handshake and an intro!!

CAN'T WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR! (Already got next years amplifier project in my head)

Perhaps if you'd hung around here a little longer, and gotten to know the people who make up the AK family, you'd likely have realized that some of those old men engaged in "uninteresting" conversation, have a great deal to offer a young person who would take the time to introduce themselves.

There was more audio (and world-wise) knowledge in those tiny rooms, that you can even imagine. Amp builders, speaker builders, designers and engineers, not to mention the hobbyists who have forgotten more than I'll probably ever know, not to mention Men and Women who have sailed the world over, traveled to the far corners of the globe, and have the stories (and scars) to show for it.

But more importantly, you walked into a place filled with my friends. A building packed to the rafters with some of the best & kindest people I've ever known. Those "old men" have treated me like a brother, and have given of their time and energy over and over, till I know I'll never balance the scales. One of my proudest achievements as a human being is to be counted in their number, to be one of them.

I was not there this year. I wish that I could have been... I would have loved to have had the opportunity you had.

You said every one is entitled to an opinion, well there's mine.

*quote Wigwam Jones*

Oh and one last thing - did you check out the 'AK Member' rooms? Lots of AK guys had their DIY, low-cost, vintage, and other non-nose-bleed expensive stuff there. Some of it sounded terrific!

THAT, I can afford.

The nice thing about AK and AK Fest for me is that I can go there with a bunch of guys who have WAY more money than I do, and while they might be able to buy that top-end kit and I can't - they never act like they're better than me. That means a lot to me.==


True. Dave Newman and Ed took the time to sit and show me step by step how they built some DIY tube gear.Truly two fine gentlemen. I am certain that others would do the same :yes:

Again,true,there is costly gear I can't toutch either but out of all honesty, these guys believe it's all about enjoying what you have and never treat anyone any different for having a lesser system. There's a system out there for all wether it be worth 5 bucks, or worth a war pention. I listen to a setup there that was using a low cost Pioneer receiver for power that sounded very nice. I guess what I'm trying to say here is I learned from these guys that I am the only one that should matter what my system sounds like,or is worth, as long as I like what I hear.:music:

I was not there this year. I wish that I could have been... I would have loved to have had the opportunity you had.

I would have liked that too. Especially after what I heard coming of a set of speakers on Sunday, bud.

As to the camaraderie of old buds, and so forth, I know maybe five of six people at AK Fest by sight - a few more by screen name. I just crash around for myself and act obnoxious. Works fine for me.

But more importantly, you walked into a place filled with my friends. A building packed to the rafters with some of the best & kindest people I've ever known. Those "old men" have treated me like a brother, and have given of their time and energy over and over, till I know I'll never balance the scales. One of my proudest achievements as a human being is to be counted in their number, to be one of them.

I understand your point - I am just saying take a moment and look at it from his point of view. This group is full of your friends, people you have established a relationship with. He came in knowing not a single soul. I already suggested that he should have reached out to meet some of the folks and make a connection. It also sounds like maybe some of the members could have recognized they were in their own little groups and perhaps made an effort to reach out to the newbies.

Not picking on anybody, just trying to give a neutral point of view. To be honest, the more I read I get the feeling that I probably won't go to one of these events either anytime in the future. Sounds more and more like a gathering of old friends who already know each other and not designed to attract new blood. Maybe I'm wrong. I am just going to sit back and read the followup and see how it plays out...

:music:

OK I'm tired, time to crash, 3 days of staying up till 4am and partying with a
bunch of good people has taken it's tole on me, peace brothers!

I welcomed anyone and everyone into my room with a handshake and an intro!!

CAN'T WAIT TLL NEXT YEAR! (Already got next years amplifier project in my head)


Was a pleasure Keg, can't wait till next year.

Can't think of anyone I didn't enjoy meeting as always.:thmbsp:

Me and Kegger could both dance for you. Oooh, baby. Makes me fell warm all over.

Makes me feel something all over. Not so much warm, unless that is another way of describing a slightly ill sensation...

I wasn't even there so I can only try to read between the lines. You mention the "camaraderie" and I understand the value in that. So imagine the perspective of a newbie who walks into rooms where he feels like he is breaking up private conversations between friends. It is not a very comfortable feeling and probably contributed to him wanting to make an early escape and not having an overall good feeling about the event. Maybe some of the old timers who arrive knowing many or most of the faces could make an effort to help reach out to the new faces. I would if I wanted to help make the event continue to grow.

More people means more exposure for the sponsors meaning more support from them. Just seems like common sense.

But what do I know...

:music:

I wasn't in attendance either, but the camaraderie thing that I was speaking of is just what AK seems to be all about, (for me at least) and it seems that the Fest would only amplify that.


It's all good --- :)

OK, well, I'm really trying to be nice and you were very polite and said not to flame you, so I really don't want to.

But what you're saying is that you wanted the room layout to be different - well it is a hotel, not sure how that happens, do we tear out the walls for you??

I have been to seminars and other venues at hotels and it's not like they don't have big huge rooms to offer up. Almost any hotel of size has conference rooms.

And you want the male-female ratio to be different - ok go round up some willing female audiophiles, I guess - good luck, we haven't been too good at that ourselves up to now, and you have a 'too many guys' tweek - well sorry, but really, son, I spent six years in the Marines sleeping in a room with 80 other guys, if five or so bother you, you might consider that you've got an issue going on there.

You know what, scratch the female thing. I know I'm in the wrong there. I had a few beers tonight. So just disregard what I said about no women being there. I have no issues and I further realize that this is mostly a guy kinda hobby. Sorry about bringing up the female to male ration factor.


And as to the laughing and dancing. Well, I laughed the whole time (ask anyone) and hell man, I'll dance for you, but you'll probably claw your own eyeballs out to get the memory out of your brain.

Point taken, LOL I'm just trying to let y'all know that there could be some improvements for new first time attendees. I don't want to rock the boat. Just wanted to give ya my perspective. Thanks for not flaming me for it.

SubWolfer, I think that I know what you are saying that the show was a little standoffish. There were a few vendors that didn't talk much, well that is until you talk too them. The David Michael Audio rep was more than happy to spend time B.S.ing with me about the audio equipment that he was selling. I think in some way he was a bit bummed because not many people were bringing in their own music (at least when I was there). He found it a thrill to hear what others like to hear in his system. I know that I was in a hurry and forgot to burn a test CD my self, so I guilty. I would like to thank the vendors that let me play something other than Jazz or classical. I believe it was the rep in the Audio Space room that let me play Madman across the water in SACD. That really made the show for me:D. There was another vendor that let me contaminate the room with Muddy Waters, way cool with the dipole speakers :thmbsp:.
I would like to say that I had more fun last year as it seemed that more vendors brought in more equipment to display. What I mean is that some vendors last year brought in 5 sets of speakers to listen too, 3 or 4 amps, and a couple of different sources. This year I found that most vendors brought in one system and it was probably their best system. I know that there were vendors that had multi rooms Salk/Audio Van Alstine and Superior Sight and Sound Esoteric/Bel Canto are at the top of mind.
I would like to thank the AK Members that were kind enough to bring their personal equipment. I was generally blown away by the innovation of the DIY crowd. Squidward's equipment was easily as good sounding as much of the high end price equipment. Not to mention that he was nice enough to sit and b.s. with me about his upgraded B.H. FP3 preamp. There was another member that had probably one of the nicest sounding speakers that I heard, sorry that I forgot you name, but those tall twin Fostex drive speakers were killer!!! I’m not sure, but I bet there were more members in the hotel with open arms, but unfortunately I had other obligations on Saturday to seek you out.
In the end I enjoyed the show and I will be back next year, but with an amp in one arm and music another so I can test some speakers with my equipment. - John

In the end I enjoyed the show and I will be back next year, but with an amp in one arm and music another so I can test some speakers with my equipment. - John


A fine, fine attitude.

Hell, I "knew" lots of people there, at least by their user name. From there I simply stuck out my hand, introduced myself, and started BSing. But I only really knew a couple prior to this weekend. I find that introductions and asking questions to be excellent ways to begin conversations...any of the DIY member rooms were very inviting places and simple question usually brought more information than my limited brain could handle!

In my stupidity, I did not put my member ship name on my nametag. I'm sure that this could have helped break in to conversation even if I do not post much. Other will recognize a member and want to talk.

Justen, thanks. I debated bringing my stuff this year, but I was short on time Saturday and not able to make it today. Hope to see more guys next year. - John

SubWolfer,


I am uniquely qualified in answering this post...look at my join date.
I sit here now, at 1:50 AM, in a lousy motel, half of the 14 hour drive home and it is funny, I dont feel anything like you do.

First off, this needs to be gotten out of the way first.
SOME of us are GLAD that hi-end audio does not glorify the degradation of women. Half bared breasts and ass is just that, no matter how you slice it. If there were thinly clad models rubbing crotches on this years tube integrated amps, I would not be returning.
(Would you want your daughter showing her body to tongue hanging perverts?)

I hear your point about the high priced gear.
But you obviously did not see all the rooms, because a full 1/3 of the show was the lower priced stuff/DIY-friendly/AK Member room oriented.
Did you not read the site devoted to the fest? I did. It was exactly what I thought it would be from the sites description.

(My show favorite has offerings starting at around 300 bucks.)

You cannot have a show that is about audio in a big room. It just cannot work. Each room needs a little bit of privacy to hear the system. Drawn curtains meant nothing but sound proofing.

The show was there for you to browse the rooms. EVERY one that I looked in contained a friendly face inviting me in and asking me if I brought some music or if I had any questions. I do understand about conversations stopping, but did you ever think they were giving you a chance to open your mouth and say something? "Hi, I am XXXXXXX, and I am looking for XXXXXXX and I like your modelXXXXXX but had this concern about it." WHATEVER. Shake a hand and say hello. There were no snobs showing gear. (Well, almost none.)

I joined AK a couple weeks ago. I knew NO ONE. You know what? I did not give a s@#$ either. I was there to see the gear, hear the gear and if I met some people...so be it.
There were a couple of snobberies in the Audio Note room when I went in there. I cleared them by telling the rep I had some Hank Williams Jr songs specially done by Sid Vicious. (Got rid of them in short order);)
I can tell from your post that you felt very intimidated and inferior. I think that comes from within, not the attitude at the fest.
We focus on what we want to. Funny thing is, I was there both days and I loved it, made at least 5 new friends, 3 business contacts and enjoyed myself a great deal.
Beer gardens and wet t shirt contests it isn't. (Thank God) But the average person attending that fest is just a normal working stiff like anyone else. God, did you seem to get the wrong impression of the people there(who were VERY warm and friendly)
I plan on going back.
If I get to know the crowd here, great. If not...oh well, it will not be because I did not have a positive 'tude...wet t shirts or not.

I think we should have a MALE wet t shirt contest. (Who might win that one hmmmm)
10-4 good buddy...

Hell, I "knew" lots of people there, at least by their user name.

Check out your post count number to the OP's. The fact that you have made so many posts it is likely that you have interacted with many of the members from AK there at the event on multiple occasions, That fact alone, whether or not you had ever met face to face would make it much easier to assimilate into the group at such an event. That he has had very little interaction via posts makes it more likely that he will feel the way he did.

The fact he took the time and effort as well as chance of being flamed to make his original post demonstrates that his experience was just that. Reading his posts I didn't get that he was trying to bash AK or the event - only give an honest account of his experience. From reading the posts of those of you trying so hard to defend the status quo I can better understand where he is coming from. My only point is that if you ever want this thing to really grow you cannot treat this like a good ol' boys club. You have to reach out to the newbies so they will want to come back and become vets themselves and bring more newbies with them next time.

Right now I am getting the sense that I would probably feel like an outsider too if I were to go to one of these events. That is the vibe I get back from those of you who have jumped all over this guy instead of just taking a moment to listen to what he is saying and trying to understand his perspective. If you were ever to get involved in putting on events like this professionally that type of input is critical for future success - not to be ridiculed or kicked aside.

But what do I know...

:music:

a newbie-old-timer meet and greet might be nice. Only two things can make that happen though. Coordinated events, or...TEQUILA

I have read every response and I know that from what I've read, I'm in the minority. But let me summarize a few points:

1.) It's obvious this is a guys hobby. I'm a guy just like y'all and I love good sounding audio. But I was mistaken to bring the male to female ratio into my reasoning for the disappointing experience I had. I guess I just didn't have a real good feel for walking into these small rooms with all y'all talking amongst yourselves and having a good time. When I walked in not knowing a single soul, I just felt like I was interrupting. Its much easier for me to approach women in this type of setting than men. Thus it made it doubly hard to feel at ease. But regardless, this was not the reason I started this thread so please disregard any comments pertaining to the the lack of women at the AK Fest. That was an inappropriate comment and certainly not any ones fault or something that I should have taken issue with.

2.) Perhaps I walked in with certain expectations when I should have had an open mind. But I can't help the feel and vibe I got. I was definitely an outsider there. It was quite clear this was a family and I just didn't get the feeling I was related. This is probably what caused me to to not enjoy it as much as I was expecting to. I've been to many a show and expo type setups. I never been to one that had such a inner-circle type setting and i guess i was not prepared for such.

3.) The layout was not at all what I was expecting. Small listening rooms I expected. I just didn't realize that EVERY room was going to be a small motel type room. I thought it was going to be more spread out and open. I was wrong though and this too, contributed to my disappointment.

So I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm sorry for not seeing things the way y'all do. You know the old sayin, that you can't please everyone. It sounds like most had a great time. So just keep on with what you do. It's not like I meant to rain on your parade. No sir. I just need to find my nitch with this stuff and I guess AK Fest wasn't it for me. But since it is "right in my backyard" and I know now what its all about, maybe down the road I can give it another shot. The only thing I would like to see changed is what I referred to in #3. I think that one thing would make it more noob friendly.

MrGee, I totally think that you are a bit out of line. You have to remember that his experience is different than yours. Everybody will have a different take on a situation. I'm sure that SubWolfer was not looking for a bar/brothel full of models wearing 78's as pasties! I'm not a huge poster here, but I have been a member for sometime and would like to say that to get angry about one's experience is over the top.
By the sounds of it, you had a much better experience. I'm just as happy that you had a great time as I am disapointed that SubWolfer had a not so good time. I can only say from my point of view that I had a good time and I will be back in the future. By the way, have a safe trip! 14 hour drives are killers. I know, I've driven from Detroit to Memphis a couple of time straight throu. - John

Perhaps I am interested more than most in this as in the past few months I have taken on the responsibility of helping to coordinate 9 events to promote Baja this coming summer and fall in the US and Canada. I have begun attending other events in the LA and San Diego areas to critique what I liked and didn't like about the events to learn what we can do to make ours successful. One thing that has stood out to me is that at some of these events I can see where some folks never seem to assimilate on their own and the successful events are those where they make an effort to reach out and pull those folks in. If you want this do be a good ol' boys club and just reminisce amongst yourselves, that's fine and that's what it will be. If you want to use it as an opportunity to promote the group and grow, you need to reach out and make an extra effort to welcome those newbies. Especially if you want continued and greater sponsor support. That's just a reality.

I am not saying that everybody was unfriendly but obviously the OP encountered what he did and I think the group should thank him for his input - not ridicule him. Some people are social butterflies and are at home wherever they go. Others are not and appreciate a warm smile and friendly extended hand to break the ice. With some folks you have to make an effort to get them to open up and talk. Successful events tailor themselves to appeal to all. Learn from it...

:music:

For the record it should be remembered the A.K. Fest was moved to the Embassy on very short notice due to problems at the original site. Also the Fest shared the venue with a large wedding. The rooms had to be open yet at the same time "close" if playing music not to disturb the other non-audio quests.

I have attended every Fest from year two on and consider these events my favourite weekend in the year so my perspective is somewhat clouded. SubWolfer is certainly entitled to his opinion. I wish he had experienced the live music Saturday nite a concert that was simply a "tour de force" an out blues, rock in roll event. There was plenty of fine inexpensive quality stuff for sale but again l can see how it could be miss.

I'm not sure what can be done to address the issues SubWolfer has brought forth. Any Fest will be a tradeoff. One item for new attendees, l'm sure there would be no lack of volunteers to take them on an initial tour while giving them the freedom to venture forth on their own. I personally would have volunteered, all l would have needed was the time and place.

Now it is SubWolfer's choice but l would give the A.K. Fest another chance to experience the potential this event has.

I wish he had experienced the live music Saturday nite a concert that was simply a "tour de force" an out blues, rock in roll event.

Laith al-saadi Yay. He should have won the guitar center challenge.

As you say, you are definatly entitled to your oppinion, but you really didn't
give the fest a fair chance as you really need to spend some time there and
check things out a bit, sure there's a bunch of high end/expensive gear in a
good bit of the rooms, but there's also some moderatly priced things as well
(the fest is really paid for by the exhibitors) plus there is plenty of DIY and
vintage there to in the members rooms which were scattered in with the big
manufacturers, the fest is large and it does take some time to see it all/and
or what one might be looking for.

Hope you give it another shot next year, look for the members rooms, they'll
give you more of what you were looking for.


and on the front page, scroll a bit past the Fest page and open the SMAC door. There is local folks with lots of cool stuff, and the May meet is comming up...:)
cheers,
Douglas

Yeah, well there I think you're a little off-base. I won't flame you, but you know, if you want hot chicks, go to a bar. This is AK, and a very large contingent of us are typical middle-class, middle-aged, men. Sure, some women get into audio gear, and some husbands and wives share an interest and come to these things together. But really - most of us are a bit past the need to see a swimsuit model explain the characteristic curve of a new speaker design.

Even as a 20-year-old, I couldn't agree more with Wigwam Jones - what did you really expect a slumber party?

However, from the perspective of a young person there are individuals in hi-fi stores who have been very patronising and judgemental and totally uninterested in my custom. But I think that is a general problem rather than anything relating to AK Fest.

If you want this do be a good ol' boys club and just reminisce amongst yourselves, that's fine and that's what it will be. If you want to use it as an opportunity to promote the group and grow, you need to reach out and make an extra effort to welcome those newbies. Especially if you want continued and greater sponsor support. That's just a reality.

Couldn't agree more :yes:

It sounds like you came to the Fest to meet women and not chat with people. I was at the first 2 Fests and you need to be open and not intimidated. I know Brian B is always welcoming as probably are many of the other vendors.

I was sad that I couldnt make this fest, but next year!!!

You get out exactly what you put in - you put in nothing you got out nothing.

As someone who has never attended the fest, maybe I know not of what I speak, but how can you judge the Fest by spending 1 hour there? I bet there were members, new and old, who spent most if not all of the weekend there, and did not get to see every room and sponsor system!

Yes, it probably is intimidating to a newb to walk into the rooms to be in the middle of a few guys who are talking, and are old friends, but you have to remember, these same guys just a few years ago were strangers and Fest newbs as well!

You will only take away from an event like this what you put into it, it's that simple. Questions unaswered, hands unshaken, aquantainences not made, is what you got for your $15.00. Don't blame this on the Fest, for the blame lies squarely at your feet.

You missed out on a wonderful opportunity by keeping your hands in your pockets, and by not taking advantage of all of the skill and knowledge that was present there, as well as the great friendships you could have started.

Hopefully, this experience has not soured you on AK, or the hobby, and you will continue to be a valued, contributing member of AK. I also hope that between now and the next Fest, you reconsider your experience, and give next years Fest the chance that it, and you, deserve. The Fest is such a great resource/event for all, and it would be a shame to not give it another chance, especially since you reside so close!

This was my 3rd 'Fest. My first one was similar to your experience in a way. I just joined weeks prior, and knew nobody, but was welcomed and many local people. The 2nd was was more about gear & music collecting, but also strengthening and creating new relationships with members. This year was strictly about the camarerie. Looking at nametags, putting faces to screen names. Just being able to say hello and shake a mans hand that you have come to respect over the years. (perhaps this is the part that's lacking from your experience)

I spent the majority of my time with people that traveled from all over the country and abroad just to meet them. The funniest thing I encountered was a guy from England that couldn't grasp the accent of the lady from Tennessee.

As Douglas stated, consider the SMAC meetings to get to know some of the local people better and I assure you that it will be a more fulfilling experience next year.

Thanks for stating and defending your opinion.

About the 'outsider' feelings, please remember that over three-fourths of the attendees were 'walk-ins', who came to the show, from outside of AK, to see the gear, and hear some music. There were a few times when I attempted to enter a room, only to find it full. I moved on, and returned, later.

I remember my first Fest, years ago. Nobody knew me, even though I was a member, because I didn't have my username on my credentials. That makes it tough for others. I did bring an LP, and I trooped from room to room, looking for working turntables. In every room where there was a tt, the person staffing the room was only too happy to play my selection. I even turned on several people to one of my favourite recording. The benefit of having your own audition piece is that you are familiar with how the music sounds, so you can more easily judge what changes exist in the playback.

As for the room size, when our original venue became unavailable, on short notice, we had to find another place. Swiss time was running out...
(Oh. Sorry.) We had to fine another venue, and the Embassy suites was it. In larger rooms, in the past, many vendors did bring several items for static display, or even to roll in. This year, there were several rooms with two systems. The room did present a challenge to certain vendors to pay extra attention to their system choices.

It is unfortunate that you were disappointed in this year's Fest, as many people put in huges amounts of time and effort to stage this year's event. If you would permit me, with 40 rooms, and travel time, in one hour, you either skipped rooms, or averaged about a minute in each. No disrespect, my young friend, but I hope, if there is a next time, that you give the Fest a fair chance.

Please stick around, and maybe, next year, you will be arranging to meet your AK friends at the Fest.

And do, please, check out the SMAC forum, and meeting dates. You will be welcomed there.

And do, please, check out the SMAC forum, and meeting dates. You will be welcomed there.

Absolutely. We love him long time. Kidding! Seriously, it's about as laid back as any group can be. Some recent SMAC photos...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/sets/72157604207176067/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/sets/72157603805134841/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/sets/72157603410780953/

Wow!

As one who has not attended this event (but would like to, someday), here's what I see.

1. Subwolfer would have probably been more well-received if he had a longer history on AK with a higher post count. I believe that I if did make the event, that my username would have been recognized and I would have been warmly welcomed or assaulted:D in a nice way! Subwolfers low post count minimized the number of folks that would recognize him by user name.

2. Subwolfer has seen the error of his ways expecting the "Audiochickfest". Let's let that go.

3. It probably is true to a degree that a lot of the attendees are old friends and could possibly make an noob feel less than welcome. That's not the fault of the "old friends" at all, it just requires the "noob" to "step up" and introduce themselves. I have enough self-confidence to do it, I have to do it in business all the time, but some don't have it or are not very comfortable with it.

4. I look forward to someday attending and believe that with a big "70salesguy" name tag, a smile. a dash of self confidence and a pair of eyes and ears ready to take it all in, that a good time will be had!

Here’s my $0.02. I offer this as my perspective only, and not as a critique of the initial post in the thread.

In order to understand what the AK Fest is, you really have to go back to its roots. An attendee at the first Fest could not have fathomed what this event has evolved into. The first fest was just a collection of like-minded audio enthusiasts who gathered together to talk gear and have a good time. As I recall we had 3 separate meeting rooms (note, these were not guest rooms, but actual meeting rooms) on the first floor. Two or three forum members (Craig – AKA NosValves was one, and my apologies for my lousy memory, but I can’t recall the others) brought their personal systems in for display and to enjoy the music. There was a break room which also doubled as the Swap Room. There were door prizes and a raffle, but the prizes were quite modest by today’s standards.

However, the emphasis was about chatting up each other’s gear, and listening to music. If memory serves, there were no vendors/retailers at the first Fest, though someone may correct me on that as well (at the most, one, if any). It was all about music, gear and camaraderie.

The Fest has evolved substantially over the years. Vendors now have an integral role in the success of the fest. However, the “AK member listening room” still plays a central role. No other similar audio show/venue that I’m aware of has members bringing in their systems for display and enjoyment. Since it is still, largely, “all about the music”, I think that the individual listening rooms are still the best solution. This set up simply could not be accommodated in a large meeting room venue. The competing sounds would clash and negatively impact the rather “intimate” atmosphere of the individual listening rooms.

Closed door? Yup, this was a limitation of the hotel. With the open atrium, and propagation of sound in that type of environment, we were asked to be cool with the volume controls and keep doors closed - propped open slightly to allow easy entrance for visitors - as much as possible.

Frankly, my observation is that the vendors really enjoy this set up versus a larger meeting room. They actually have folks come in, stay for as long as they like, listen to some great gear, build relationships with individuals who might actually become customers, all in a comparatively relaxing environment. And the cost of entry is darn cheap compared to C.E.S. or some similar large show.

We did have a fair number of “younger” visitors to the Fest. It would be interesting to compare their feedback to the comments of the original poster. No organization can become self sustaining unless newer, younger blood can be attracted and become interested enough to stick around. If the comments of the original poster are an aberration, than hopefully AK is on the right track. However, if the comments are shared by the “younger” attendees, it may be worth paying some significant attention to.

Sub Wolfer, thanks for starting this excellent thread.
You make many valid points. I too was a little nervous going into some of the rooms on Saturday. Yes, they are small, but I came to appreciate their intimicy as time went on. I originally was going to leave Sunday morning but decided to give the rooms (mostly member rooms BTW, one more listen). I'm glad I did. I became more comfortable as time went on and really had a ball. I post a lot and many members recognized my name so that helped. I agree that a DIY room might be a neat thing to experience. Maybe long time members (and vendors for that matter) could take hour long time slots and do seminars. Hey, but they are there to enjoy themselves as well. Just an idea. I did however, learn more in Squidward's room then I have in the last year. Between Ed and Dave and a guest by the name of Yvon (I think). I came away with enough ideas to carry me over until next year. You are also right about a lot of the high end gear. Much of it holds no interest to me; I can't now and probably never will be able to afford it. I did though get my first listen to McIntosh gear and am grateful for that. One of the best conversations of the two days I was there came in Classic Audio's room. A set of his speakers retails for more than the house I grew up in, but his knowledge and banter with particularely one visitor were priceless.
Driving home I too thought about a room with some more common items being played, after all most of what I have can probably be considered junk (but it's my junk and I do love it). I came to the conclusion, who would want to listen to my crap. Well, maybe you might and I would have a great time sitting and listening with you. Hey, maybe you and I could share a member's listening room next year.
To make a long story short (I know, it's way too late for that) keep posting and PLEASE think about coming again next year. You've made some good suggestions and I for one look forward to meeting you next year. :thmbsp:

One thought - I like the smaller rooms for the equipment manufactuers. At big shows like CES, the equipment is on display - it's for looking at, not listening to. And although sometimes it is not easy to listen critically even in the smaller rooms (when people are talking), it can be done. And for me, that's really what I want - to be able to hear the equipment.

I thought the rooms were remarkably quiet outside of them as well. Very little bleed-over from room to room, even with volumes up. Nice job on the hotel for that.

Is this the Complaint forum? :D


My only problem with the fest, was that "I" only had 4 hrs to spend there Saturday! So I missed the live music (dag nabb it!) and Sunday to boot!

I am Sorry subwoofer, that your experience wasn't the greatest, but I would hardly be able to call this show lame! I never opened a door to one of the rooms and got any thing but a satisfied smile from those folks sitting in it or those operating the systems and this was my first time attending the fest and they didn't know me from adam!

I must admit, I looked at it as a sort of ham fest for stereo nuts. (you may be too young to know anything about those or care for that fact)

If you really want to see the things you where talking about, go to Las Vegas in January to the consumer electronics show.

"There you will find a big "party" atmosphere, thousands of people looking at all kinds of games, stereo's Plasma's and most any thing electronic, with plenty of scantily clad women! (sorry, had to throw that in!)

This show was a breath of fresh aire! People who I can relate to, are easy to talk to and dare I say it, As passionate about audio as I am.

I commend Grumpy and his family and all the fine members who are involved in putting on such an enjoyable show.

Next year I will make sure I have more time to spend there! :thmbsp:

Thanks Guys !

Boxoboom

There was one vendor at AK 1 - Buggtussell Loudspeakers - another sad story there :pity: .

I do think that there were some young members at the 2 I was at and they enjoyed themselves.

That said - AK Fest can't be everything to everybody because we are just not that big.

For the record, I can relate to the experience that the OP had when I attended my first fest. I didnt know what to expect and I wandered around feeling a bit uncomfortable. I knew a couple of people through the forum and ran into them which helped things out and when i found them, they were very welcoming. Kegger and Wiggy offered to bring me to the VIP room for some private dances. As tempting as it was, I stuck with meekly barging my way into rooms checking out gear. Talking to the reps of equipment I liked and being driven away from others that I found to be obnoxious sales types.

I guess one thing I did differently than you is went in without expectations and came away knowing I'd come back. One of the members I had talked to for a while via email was squidward and that was the first time I met him in person. Since then, we have developed into very good friends and even shared a demo room this year and have collaborated on some projects together.

As you get to know the other members and familiarize yourself with them and their personalities, the AKfest and even the local SMAC meets become about more than just the audio, it's an opportunity to meet some virtual friends and virtual assholes (like me) and realize that everyone has similar interests. Some of the people there just peaked into our window and moved on, other just sat and didn't say much, others talked about their porsche and hovercraft. Some wanted technical details on the components/gear, others just wanted us to play their CD or record.

I didn't know 80% of the people that popped in and I hope we didn't drive them away or act uninviting.

MrGee, I totally think that you are a bit out of line. You have to remember that his experience is different than yours. Everybody will have a different take on a situation...John


You have a right to that opinion.
Please re-read the opening post, then read post #34.
#34 is constructive criticism.
#1 was a little over the top, which my reply...influenced by hours of "road head" at 2AM...admittedly may have been.

<I bow in humble sorrow, begging forgiveness>
(said in jest to make one smile, not sarcasm to make a frown :) )

AK Fest 07 was my first and unfortunately my last, not because I was disappointed in the show but simply that the days are past for putting this warm body on airplanes.

My first audio show was in the 50s - everything was mono except for one exhibit of something called binaural. Apart from my brother neither of us knew a soul. Affordable equipment? Surely you jest, I did not see my modest Bogen DB-10 at the show. Subsequent audio shows were much the same, lovely sounding equipment at prices well outside my budget, in a hotel full of strangers.

Surprise! I now have four of the systems that I then could not afford. Better still I have many friends here at AK. A word to the wise, friends are not given to you, hence the expression "make friends". I once had a supervisor who, when we were flying to Europe, said to me after the flight - "I wish I could talk to strangers the way you can". This was in reference to the passenger sitting next to me. As I told him, you can talk to strangers and some will enter into conversation, but some will not - hey, you can't turn on everyone in this world, it is nothing personnal.

Sometimes I would have preferred to turn it off as I used to think my collar was on backwards - I have had more confessions than the average priest.:yes:

This was my first AKFEST as well and I went with 4 other guys and all 5 of us were thrilled with the experience, have no regrets and would go again.

I didn't make the fest unfortunately. Timing was not too good, and my wheel barrow full of cash is running way low LOL.

I understand your situation, but its like that in almost any event put on by a long standing site. I meet up south of ATL every year for a car show that originated from www.hybridz.com . We all have nissans. Some of my closest car buddies attend, and that is the only time of year we meet.

It was awkward at first, these guys had big badass cars. Tons of $$ in them, and super fast. Turns out they were also down to earth and turned out to be great friends.

I say for $15 bucks, you can't go wrong trying it again.

Evan

BTW; Sitting down to listen to 10k speakers may teach you something about how equipment should sound. I had a chance to listen to 21k dollar speakers at one point, and it was worth every minute spent in front of them.

For never being to one of these events you hit it right on the head. What I quoted from you above describes my experience to the T. Add in in expensive gear (which was way out of my league) and I think you get the picture.

I'm sure a lota folks had a great time. I just have to be honest though and express I wasn't one of them. But hey, it's OK. Me and my buddy had a couple beers and a burger and talked about the gear i recently acquired. Still had an enjoyable day. Oh, and by the way, my buddy did buy several used LP's in the Vinyl Swap room and I got a really cool old Ian Hunter LP.

Honestly young man you wasted your own time and money. You spent one hour at the fest? It was absolutely impossible to check out reasonable number of rooms at the fest in that amount of time, It sounds to me like you only visited the vendor rooms that happened to be empty or near empty at the time because of your own lack of social skills.

As far as the swap room gear goes never expect to find treasures the second day of the swap meet. The treasues are long gone 1 hour after the swap meet begins. The rule of swap meets, garage sales or flee markets has and always will be "the early bird gets the worm".

Craig

PS one complaint in your post that I absolutely agree with and for the life of me could not figure out was why many vendors #1 had there door locked so you had to knock to gain entrance and #2 had drapes pull shut so folks could not glance in and see something interesting and want to come in. My drapes were wide open and the door was always cracked open. If someone peered in and I noticed I would actually wave them in and welcome them. I would often ask if they had a disc they wanted to play. In my listening room I almost never used my own source material most of what was played was almost always something a visitor brought with them.

As a relative newb to the board also, I think I can appreciate what you're saying, SubWolfer. I'm not usually the first guy to start a conversation or to give things a chance if I'm a little apprehensive. I'm not a fan of big crowds or situations/people/places I'm unfamiliar with. Having a friend with you that isn't as interested as you are may have made it more difficult to stay longer and give it more of a chance, also.

The thing is that sometimes you have to forget all that and really do what you can to butt in (not being rude, of course) and introduce yourself. Tell people you're new. Tell them what gear you have/like and what you listen to. You might not meet everyone with the same interests or attitude, but that's how it is everywhere, with just about everything. And with any kind of show/fest you might have to wait to get into a room or exhibition.

That being said, I wasn't there and can't say how it was or wasn't in this particular case. I'm making a generalization and am only posting about it because I think I can appreciate where you're coming from, but do this: stick around the board and participate. I don't often have a lot to say but I read a lot, and the people I have met locally are great folks and I hope to meet more.

I'd like to go to the fest next year and it will probably be a little tough for me to just say "hey, I'm here" but if that's what I need to do, I'll do it. I expect that it'll be worth it.

Also... it's true that this is hobby is an overwhelming picklefest. It's no secret. Maybe we can get a Budweiser sponsorship next year and get some Bud girls to walk around? It's just a thought. :D

i hearby nominate Wiggy as the official AK Spokesperson, i am also calling my attorney to have draw up a personal services contract for wiggy to be my personal spokesperson, for when i read i post i dont agree with , i could then have wiggy respond for me in his informed reasonable style...

Wiggy i do not know your vocation but unless its journelism you may have missed your mark.

good show and to the OP, what he said....

Regrettably (for me), I have yet to make it to an AKFest. :tears: I hope to next year or the year after.

Perhaps I shouldn't comment since I haven't been there, but I can imagine well what the OP is talking about, from experience at other events (both good and bad). Having organized many functions over the years (including some much larger than the Fest), perhaps I can offer a few ideas/suggestions. Many of these may already have been implemented, or may not be entirely suited to the AK Fest, but perhaps something here may help for next year:

(1) Have a map given to each person on arrival (in their "kit" - a folder with schedules, vendor's ad stuff, etc...) that clearly shows the different areas (color-coded for "vendors' rooms", "member's rooms", "communal space" or "swap-meet", etc...), so if someone like the OP comes, they can quickly and easily find what they are looking for: in this case, member's rooms with less-expensive and/or more vintage gear than the vendors' rooms.

(2) Have a "social" or "rest" area where people can go just to relax and shoot the breeze (not that they aren't doing this anyway within the rooms, but this area would be specifically for meet-and-greet type socializing with people you don't already know). This should be a more open/accessable area, with refreshments. Even just putting table signs on a couple tables or a marked-off area in the lobby or coffee shop (or a large room very close to the entrance) with a coffee/tea/smacks buffet on the side would do.

(3) I know you have name badges: are they big enough to be easily read? Do they have members' user names, real names, and place of origin? (and perhaps room for one more comment/statement by the wearer?). Makes it easier for people to approach each other.

(4) Mention was made of a live concert on Saturday evening. Excellent idea. Are there other planned events? Things like cocktail parties, maybe with some silly "mixer" games at the start, the raffle, organized meals, perhaps with guest speakers, presentations, awards (some serious, some silly), etc...

(5) How about a "college bowl" type quiz-show covering audio knowledge/audio trivia, perhaps with different categories? This could be by individuals or teams, and might be divided somehow (professionals vs. amateurs, or by number of years in the hobby/business). To make it a little more fun and less intimidating, some of the questions could be about past posts/topics/revelations on AK. It would be fun for participants, and educational for all, and give people more to talk about during and afterwards.

(6) How about having a bulletin board near the entrance, where people with rooms could post a one-page "ad" showing their picture (of themselves and/or their gear) and a blurb about what was in their room? At higher cost, the pages could be reproduced and put into a "guide book" or "program". A new (or late) arrival could look these over, and decide where they'd like to start from those descriptions and pics.

(7) Have some volunteers with experience and knowledge of the Fest --wearing something distinctive like a brightly-colored sash or cap or vest to identify them-- who could act as ushers/hosts/"introducers" to help people find things, make introductions, etc... Newbies could be pointed in the right directions by them upon arrival, and they could be told to approach anyone else dressed that way at any time, if they had questions or needed help.

(8) You could organize a "scavenger hunt" type of game to run during the Fest, with a list of things to be "found" --mostly actually puzzles or questions, the answers to which would be found scattered in the various rooms. Some of the answers might be written somewhere, but for many other answers, you'd have to ask the people in the rooms. Some could be cryptic or "hidden", within reason. Have a prize for the first person to get all the answers, and another prize to be drawn from all the entrants who get all the correct answers after that. This way, people are encouraged (and have a good excuse!) to approach people in the rooms and start speaking to them, if only to ask the questions and get the answers, in the hope of winning the prize.

(9) You could have "secret friends". The people who participate in this get a gift ready before arrival, and leave it at a designated place when they arrive. At that time, they are given the name of the person whose secret friend they are, but not the person who is their own secret friend (these friendships are "one way"). If you participate, you have to approach people and introduce yourself, in order to find out who your "secret friend" is, and only once you find them, can you both go to verify that you've found them, and claim the gift. This encourages everyone to go around and introduce themselves to others, at least until they find who their own secret friend is. Guaranteed to get more people approaching the others they don't already know/haven't already met.

Hope something amidst that lengthy drivel helps improve what I'm sure is already a great event for most attendees, and hope one day to make it to a Fest, myself (being one of those married middle-agers who really don't need the bathing beauties any more to enjoy audio ...not that I don't appreciate beauty of any kind!) :D

I didn't have time to read the whole post but I'm from Lincoln Park, can't afford any of that stuff and still had a blast.

Ski was grinning ear to ear everytime I saw him. :yes:

Whoa! As this year's Fest was moved to a new hotel on rather short notice some of arkay's suggestions would have been impossible to implement. That said if next year's Fest is to be held in the same location here's an idea.

If we can get a floor layout from the hotel and an account of who has what room we could do 'You are here' layouts. I have this 36" wide DesignJet and a older version of Visio (just finished a 24 x 36 drawing of the deck restoration).

I volunteer to produce such drawings and code them as to room content, i.e., vendor, member, swap room, etc.

When you signed in there were maps showing all the rooms, who was in them
and which ones were member rooms to help guide you where you wanted to go.

There was one vendor at AK 1 - Buggtussell Loudspeakers - another sad story there :pity: .

I do think that there were some young members at the 2 I was at and they enjoyed themselves.

That said - AK Fest can't be everything to everybody because we are just not that big.

Classic Audio Reproductions was also at the first fest. Technically NOSValves was also a vendor. BrianB from Venus was also there.

Here's a link to the way back machine..

http://www.audiokarma.org/ak2004/akfest04/akfest.html

Now.. How many people attending all 5 fests, and who had had a room or equipment on display at all 5 fests.

Missed you this year Botritis.. Played That Funky Beat White Boy.. in your honor.

Classic Audio Reproductions was also at the first fest. Technically NOSValves was also a vendor. BrianB from Venus was also there.

Here's a link to the way back machine..

http://www.audiokarma.org/ak2004/akfest04/akfest.html

Now.. How many people attending all 5 fests, and who had had a room or equipment on display at all 5 fests.

Missed you this year Botritis.. Played That Funky Beat White Boy.. in your honor.

AWW SHUCKS!!!:tears:

OK I'm still running on about 1/10th the amount of sleep a normal person would get in a 4 day stretch.

I traveled a long way to get the the FEST. I came from Silverton, Oregon It cost me a LOT of money to attend the fest.

I showed up at the airport in Detroit a Guy I would have not known on the street from Adam picked me up for no other reason then to save me the cost of a taxi ride. This same guy over the course of the weekend made a liquor store run, made sure I got out away from the hotel and had a really nice dinner heck this same guy even came in on Sunday morning and made sure we weren't dead after the attempt to poison ourselves with booze bought by a Monopoly money spending Brit. Then this same guy made sure I had a ride back to the Airport on Sunday evening. Heck he even gave me his door prize.

Mark (justrideit) is now a great friend and I meet him Saturday morning at 7:30 in front of an airport.



I get to the Hotel get my stuff into my room meeting the guy who restored my amp and tuner (we split a room) and I got the tell you meeting Rich (Pustelnickr) in the dark of a Hotel room about 3 hours after he made it to sleep is a little scary LOL. WE had a blast rooming and I'm sure Rich's looking out for me is the reason I'm still alive After all how may guys you've just meet would stay up for hours just listening to you breath. (OK maybe the 98db snoring was part of the reason he volunteered for that duty.

My Saturday at the Fest unlike the OP's went from about 7:30am when I meet Mark at the airport to sometime around 4:30 am Sunday when I passed out. In that time I meet dozens of people I didn't know shared my photo album of stereo gear and home improvement projects and grand daughters with at least 1/2 dozen women some of which were very nice to talk to (read in a very respectful way since a number of them were wives and mothers were also NICE TO LOOK AT).

I hit at least 2/3 of the rooms many I sat and listened to a song or two a couple I only spent a couple minutes in. Few I liked the sound a few I really didn't. But in every single one of them I learned something if only that I can be very happy with how my own system sounds.

I agonized over how many LP's I could handle carrying home Since I think about 5 miles of the distance I traveled to get tot he FEST was walking in airports from one corner to the other. I picked up a couple of items I had prearranged to buy there from locals so I had to be very careful on the weight.

Saturday evening one of the rooms I sat in was Retro Stereo's and we listened to some Pink Floyd on his very very nice Pioneer Spec system. All kinds of good natured ribbing back and forth. As my System is based on a Pioneer SA-9100 amp.

I meet wives and daughters and one of the cutest little girls I have even seen hanging upside down ever!

I got to hang with my buddy Steve (modge) from some silly named place in England where they name places after sheep! And even if he did try to kill me by buying me booze I still wouldn't have missed shaking his hand and meeting a guy I will talk about the rest of my life.

Fisher - Dave I wish we had spent a little more time in the same place but meeting you standing in the Breakfast line was a high point of the weekend.

And your line "I don't suppose they have grits" will stick with me for ever!!

Jack (WhiteSE) DUDE you aren't anything like I thought what a blast to sit and talk with you Sunday morning while those parts of my brain that still worked rebooted in a febble attempt to bring me back to the living. And I hope your arm patches up quick and you can get back to playing tennis.

your line "my Neighbor in Saudi Arabia had a camel in his backyard" also stand out as a high point.

Joyce (jcmjrt) Great to finally meet you and your husband I enjoyed showing off my photo's to you.

But when (and I don't remember who said it) one of the guys in Ed's room looked at your husbands name badge and seeing your Screen name on it said (I thought you were a woman) this also stands out as a great line from FEST.

ED and Daves DIY room was where I spent the most time I spent most of Sunday there hanging out was late even watching the room for a while so Ed could get away for a few minutes.

TOM all I can say is if you hadn't been at the FEST I would have felt cheated for not getting to meet you in person.

Strawman (Steve) anything I said Saturday night after being up for (according to your sons math LOL) 41+ hours Please take as the ramblings of a crazy man! I think I could have managed a full sentance if that guy from England hadn't been piling me with free Budwisers. I enjoyed meeting your son seamed like a totally cool kid.

EVERY WHERE I WENT a hand got out thrust for a shake guys were turning each other name badges around so they could find they were talking to someone they have known for a couple years. And others they had no idea who they were. EVERYONE was nice everyone was a blast to hang out with..

It was a little scarry how many people knew me from my Grand daughter avatar and the "SHRINE PHOTOS" Guess I'm not a wall flower LOL.

I even had vendors offering water or even a beer while I sat and listened to their gear.

Will I come 2/3 of the way across the country for a weekend next year NOT sure. The original OP spend some local gas money and $15.00 to be unimpressed I spent around $850.00 and had a BLAST I guess you get what you pay for. Am I glad I did it this year YOU BET.

I got to hang with the people I talk to, argue with, and look forward to sharing my hobby with.

And Retro Stereo if you read this I'm home and the SA-9100's are staying put. No Spec gear for this Dump truck driver LOL.

To Grumpy, Mrs. Grumpy, And all the people who worked so hard to organize this weekend I want to thank you it wasn't the gear it was a people that made this a wonderful adventure for me. If I can't comeback next year it's not the gear I will miss hearing it's the people of AK I will miss seeing. And I wish I could be close enough to help with the HUGE amount of HARD work you guys and gals put into to do this for US.

OK after a whopping 5.5 hours of sleep since 11:00 Sunday I doubt any of this is coherent but then why change my style now LOL..

People I had a freckin BLAST.

This reminds me of the story of 7 blind men describing an elephant. Each has his own interpretation given his experience. Differences are inevitable when everyone did not experience the whole thing.

This reminds me of the story of 7 blind men describing an elephant. Each has his own interpretation given his experience. Differences are inevitable when everyone did not experience the whole thing.

So True Ward!!

This reminds me of the story of 7 blind men describing an elephant.

Not to mention the poor schmuck who was positioned at the rear-end of said elephant. :)

I went with a buddy from Michigan for one reason. To see what all the hype is about. We both left very satisfied in knowing that you don't need to spend a fortune...YES a fortune to have good sound. We both have almost identical system ...i.e. (Carver, PS Audio and Linn). We listened to our own CD's in most rooms and we found ONE room that we actaully enjoyed. Ridge Street Cables room.....The Mac room...very impressive to eyes but not ears....I have probably about $2000 in my system that includes an amp capable of 380 w.p.c., vacuum tube cd player and a decent pre-amp. Speakers are LINN from Scotland and all cableing is PS Audio highest grade bi-wires. Don't get me wrong...the people we're nice and I actually met some members..exhibitors were friendly and you could turn up the volume but overall it was disappointing.....But I did get my answer....I wish there were more exhibitors.....AK did a great job and I am not bashing the fest at all. One thing nice to see was the abundance of vacuum tube cd players and the ability to fill rooms with 8, 10 and 12 watts ...respectively........I will not attend again but its not because I didn't enjoy myself.

This reminds me of the story of 7 blind men describing an elephant. Each has his own interpretation given his experience. Differences are inevitable when everyone did not experience the whole thing.

I just wanted to say, I haven't been to the Fest yet, but I've really enjoyed this thread. I understand what it is more than I did before. And the objective tone of the discussion is gratifying. :thmbsp:

Arkay made what sound to me like some great suggestions a few posts back. There's a man with a gift of looking at something like this from a systems perspective. I attend a lot of conferences and meetings and I always walk around saying "how come there isn't a sign for this, or a map to that, or this kind of space to do such and such." Wise advice worth considering (again, from a non-attender, just speaking generally).

One more suggestion: how about badges with not only the AK username but also their post count? You'd be able to recognize relative newbies and maybe that would help in the welcoming department.

I empathize with Subwolfer a bit - us shy people can be alone in a crowd quite easily. Probably not a fault of the Fest though.

Rock on y'all. :tresbon:

Well, one afternoon early this Spring I was minding my own business doing a little gardening in my front yard. Up rolls this red truck, the window comes down and Grumpy says "If you don't show up this year we're going to come over and drag you there"
Did I mention they don't call him Grumpy because Sneezy was already taken and Bashful didn't fit?
Well, after a couple of years of not finding the time I decided to make a weekend of it. I spent 6 - 7 hours at the hotel both days. I missed a few rooms that I really should have spent more time in. I particularly enjoyed the member rooms because inspired DIY is one of the most admirable occupations I know of. I sort of take for granted that the Manleys can make a great sounding tube amp, but when a guy on a budget builds his own and the music leaves me speechless that's an accomplishment that I really respect.
It wasn't perfect. Some of the big speakers needed different rooms. I'd have liked more convenient lunches, although any male who missed meeting the waitresses at Doc's bar really needs to find a reason to go back.
One thing that was ideal was the people. Reps and attendees, every one was courteous and friendly even when it was crowded, noisy or the elevator took too long.
I can't wait until next year. Maybe I'll bang together an amp and a pair of speakers with EconoWaves in them to demo. At the least I should invite a few people over for a beer. Maybe even sooner than that.

It was my first Fest as well. But my impression was just the opposite. Maybe my age 49, 50 next month. I got a buddy to come with me who has never been to a audio show and does not have a hi-fi system and he said he had a blast and when we got back to DC he called before he went to bed to thank me again for the experience. So maybe us older guys don't give a damn because each room I went into I just jumped right in. Pulled out my lp's and said "hey can you play this for me". I didn't care 2 cents what the response might have been.

Hello , I liked the fest i drove from Milw with the wife and daughter ,, and it was nice , actually i wish you had a few more vendors but that comes with time ,, People were nice as could be expected . I went to an audio fest in Chicago 8 to 10 years ago it was bigger but not that much different small hotel rooms , but what do you expect 20x20 room? The only issue i had were the slow elevators ... Other than that nice show i will be back. How bout posting the names of the raffle winners... Mike

I didn't care 2 cents what the response might have been.

Kudos to all of you who are the types that don't care if you know a single soul at an event like this and will have a great time and get much from the experience as a factor of your personality type, age and life experience.

Not everyone is like you.

In all of your attempts to somehow counter or minimize the authenticity of SubWolfer's experience because it wasn't YOUR experience is to miss the point of this. It will only limit the growth and scope of this venue in the future.

Many have harped on the fact that he spent only an hour at the Fest, questioning how he could have really experienced all the rooms. My guess is that if he walked into a room with a group of people, feeling like he had interrupted their conversation and no effort was made on their part to reach out to him and involve him, he probably wouldn't last more than a minute or two. Repeating that experience from room to room means that he could have seen a lot of rooms in an hour. If that had been my experience I probably wouldn't have had a generally overall warm fuzzy feeling about the event either.

Events like this have to decide what they want to be. If you want it to be purely a reunion type event among old friends then that is what it will be. If you want to use the event to promote the forum and grow, you have to accept that a concerted effort needs to be made to welcome and include the newbies. Especially those who don't find it easy to assimilate based on personality, age difference and other reasons that might keep them from making the first step to reach out and connect. I am sure that your sponsors would prefer the latter option.

Accepting these shortcomings of the event is not to minimize or criticize the event or the hard work and efforts of those who put so much of their time into making it happen. It is taking an honest look at what has a happened and using that analysis to make future events an even bigger success.

Events of this type on a larger scale always do a post event critical analysis and ask for the comments of attendees. The comments from those who offered negative remarks are those which are focused on most as those are the ones that will help the most in the future. Everyone likes to be patted on the back but to grow you have to be able to take criticism in a positive way.

And that's my dos centavos...

:music:

I just started to read this thread and this was probably mentioned: No girls (women ) around.....sounds like something The Wife would let me go to!!

Baja Gringo:

I understand where the OP (and you for that matter) are coming from; but do you honestly think that the majority of the people who trekked to the fest, some of them traveling hundreds, even thousands of miles, came solely to listen to gear? You can do that at audio retailers the world over.

They traveled all that way to be with their friends, and make new ones. I know these people well enough to say with surety, that anyone who came to the fest and felt left out, or excluded, mostly has themselves to blame.

How hard is it to stick out a hand, state your name, and get involved in the conversation. The OP ain't gonna learn how to meet people any younger...

As I said earlier, Baja, it was his own doing as he only stayed an hour. Heck, you could probably stay one hour in one room.

I am a shy person by nature but I do force myself to meet people. If you don't do it with people you have things in common with - who will you do it with?

This is AUDIOKARMA - ALL AUDIO and of course good MATES!!!

Yes BAJAGRINGO, sorry but you are just wrong on this one,

The fest is full of nice people wanting and yearning to share, there are no needs
to be taken care of for the newbie, that person just needs to be willing and able
to give the fest a shot and it will provide for them a great experience.
(It is extremely well run)

As everyone has said the fest takes time to get through and understand, yu just
have to put forth the effort, plain and simple.
(Best place to start, members rooms)

Showing up and spending 1 hour saying this is lame and leaving aint gunna cut it!

Not saying that wasn't his feelings, I'm sure it was, but you need to give it time an
get past your initial thoughts of what you thought it would be and see it for what it
is by spending some time there and give it a chance. That's all that needs to be done.

The fest grows and changes are made every year to make it better then the last, but
it still comes down to the attendee to see it and see it with an open mind. Improvements
are made every year, many debates are made over those changes to try and improve it.

You just have to see it and let it invlove you. The fest is what it's suppose to be.

I think that one response might be to spend some quality time here online at AK and get to know some folks. Soon you'll find that you have many things in common with a whole bunch of other AK members. Attend a couple of local get-togethers and then try the Fest again next year. :dunno:

I have made some very good friends here, and MAN it was hard to leave yesterday and get on the plane to return home (a couple of days just wasn't enough time). There are some great folks here. Yes, it's about audio, but also about the friendships (at least for me) that tie some of us together.

In many respects I feel totally incapable of understanding many of the technical aspects of this hobby (both on the solid state and tube side), but one thing for certain is that there are so many folks here ready and willing to share their knowledge. I sat in awe of the equipment (new and old) and the people who put many of these (especially DIY) pieces together. I have many people here to thank for my rekindled interest in audio, music and solid friendships. :yes:

Many of the new systems are certainly out of my reach, but it doesn't hurt to dream a bit :music:

Give it another try, and as suggested visit an SMAC gathering (I'm too far away, but just love to see the photos).

Mama specifically told me "NO DANCING GIRLS!" and put a note in one of my shirt pockets showing herself with an automatic weapon in hand :uzi:.

Tunes, suds, and a bunch of old men chewing fat, are just fine with me. I came 3000+ miles for just that. So there :bigok:

Enjoy,
Rich P

And kind sir, it was my distinct pleasure meeting you and having time to set-a-spell :yes:

Mama specifically told me "NO DANCING GIRLS!" and put a note in one of my shirt pockets showing herself with an automatic weapon in hand :uzi:.

Tunes, suds, and a bunch of old men chewing fat, are just fine with me. I came 3000+ miles for just that. So there :bigok:

Enjoy,
Rich P

Old men?
Ring ring, hello pot, this is kettle calling. :D This is what I'm talking about. I've recieved technical guidance from that gentleman, good natured ribbing in threads and chat, and was just thrilled to meet the man and shake his hand, among many others. I just think a little more time and involvement here just might change his mind and anybody that reads the original post and doesn't think the investment pays out.

The only issue i had were the slow elevators ...

Ha! You would not be complaining if you had seen last year's elevator. It like to stop about a foot short of level with the floor you wanted - plus or minus - and you could jump or climb the difference.

The gig was also on like the bazillionth floor, so walking up the stairs was right out for anyone with a few pounds and a few beers on them.

And walking down the stairs was an exercise in vomit control, since the whole thing stank of urine.

This year's venue was GREAT!!!!

I'll take the slow elevators ANY DAY!

I just started to read this thread and this was probably mentioned: No girls (women ) around.....sounds like something The Wife would let me go to!!

Sadly, you're more or less right about the absence of females not directly employed by the event.
I didn't even ask my wife if she wanted to go. She would have said no, but if she had gone she would have had a great time. She loves music and when she's really enjoying herself, can't resist dancing. That's the kind of enthusiast that the audio hobby needs more of. Luckily for them, they know when the music is more important than the gear and tend to spend on recordings and not playback gear.
If I get the joint straightened up here I hope to host a SMAC meeting before the next FEST so maybe she will meet more people besides Pakprotector, Grumpy, Kamakiri, Wardsweb, Andyman and those she met at the 2004 Fest.

I think my wife, who visited most of the listening rooms with me and met a lot of AKers, would be offended to learn that there were "no women" at the Fest.

I think my wife, who visited most of the listening rooms with me and met a lot of AKers, would be offended to learn that there were "no women" at the Fest.

He meant like at the autoshow were guys ogle them in all the scanty-cladded glory. You know the ones that point at the car but don't realize they are in front of a car!!

Even though Squdward said I was supposed to be a Japanese woman,
I really enjoyed my time listening to him, Kegger, other AK Members' rooms - they gave me inspiration to complete all my projects!

If anybody could convince you to get get going on your tube projects Kuma, it would be those 2 guys. Throw in PakProtector, MrClassicman & Dnewman, and you'll be firing up that soldering iron. :thmbsp:

I think the OP has some good points. In other ways, he's kinda off-target. The Fest, and all audio shows, are stuck with a few physical, economic and social constraints:

1. The exhibitors MUST be in separate rooms. Otherwise, demos become volume contests and everyone is miserable. Every audio show in the world is done this way, from CES and RMAF, all the way to Manchester, England, Munich, Germany, and Hong Kong. The "large hall" exhibits at CES are not intended for serious demos, and most of the stuff in them isn't dedicated audio. The real audio stuff is in the top floors of the Venetian, all in separate suites.

2. AK Fest isn't CES, and Detroit isn't Vegas. We can't charge $5,000 for an exhibit room in the Venetian, only $850 for the Embassy Suites. OTOH, attendees don't have to pay the airfare to Nevada and $500/night for a room at those "special" CES rates.

3. Expensive new gear is what pays for the show, and the site. Take it away, and you have to go back to 7 rooms and 200 AK members. I absolutely believe those guys had a truly great time, and I wish I'd been there! But without growth and younger members, the whole thing goes stagnant and dies of old age in a short while. Today's expensive new gear is tomorrow's vintage, and today's vintage is tomorrow's antiques. Once they become antiques, the price rises to beyond the level of today's stuff. Besides, The whole reason many of us got into vintage was to recapture stuff we saw and heard when we were kids and couldn't remotely afford.

4. When you enter a room, what you encounter is largely random. Because 3/4 of the folk are non-member walk-ins, you might see a group that knows one another, and you might see a group that has nothing in common except audio. In one hour, you don't get enough of a sampling to make conclusions. I know this for an absolute truth based on walking in and out of my own room at the Fest. I'd wander a bit, come back, and not know anyone in there. Other times, I knew some folk, and occasionally, everyone. Those rare occasions were definitely the most fun, but the other 90% of the time, I had to introduce myself... or just sit there and listen.

5. I'm fairly anti-social. Rich PA probably has some yummy pills that will fix it, but until that happens, I have to make an effort to meet new people. Sadly, I also have the worst memory for faces and names, so I frequently do my best "deer-in-the-headlights" impression when I see someone I met and talked to last year, and I have a damn hard time linking real-life people with their AK personalities. As a result, I tend to be quiet initially while I struggle to figure out who the hell I'm really in the room with. The point is that unless you're one of those lucky folks that auto-remembers faces, names, and AK monikers, or gets them all instantly, every time you enter a room is a small trial. I don't think I'm alone in this, and believe me, it's worse than being a newbie, since a lot of folk are wondering why you're not saying hi. As a newbie, if you listen for a while, then chime in, no one thinks you're ignoring them, and almost everyone will be friendly.

6. If anyone can figure out how to fill an audio show with interested women, your listening room at the Fest will be free, forever, and the existing membership will keep you supplied with all the hooch you can drink. The OP has yielded that it's not a valid criticism, but it goes beyond that, to the level of dreaming of miracles. OTOH, the women that are there are amongst the finest examples of their gender, IMHO.

For next year, we can do more to welcome newbies. I'm against the post-count idea; but perhaps a "New Member" sticker for anyone that requests one? That way, if you want some extra attention, you can get it, and if you don't, you can always hide in my room. Besides, we can put one on Eric's badge when he's not looking.

Other suggestions, like seminars, etc. all become possible as the show grows. If we can take the whole place next year, the hotel will care less about the doors being closed. We could have a specific area of the hotel for vintage, with members rooms or other rooms set up to educate in particular areas, like DIY tube gear, restoration, etc. That's a HUGE increase in size, and a risk level that will have Dave sleepless for weeks before.

The good news? The hotel already called Dave to make sure we're coming back. The exhibitors were so happy with this year that they're spreading the word for next year. 09 will be bigger and better.

To the OP, come on back and give it another try!

I have read every response and I know that from what I've read, I'm in the minority. But let me summarize a few points:

1.) It's obvious this is a guys hobby. I'm a guy just like y'all and I love good sounding audio. But I was mistaken to bring the male to female ratio into my reasoning for the disappointing experience I had. I guess I just didn't have a real good feel for walking into these small rooms with all y'all talking amongst yourselves and having a good time. When I walked in not knowing a single soul, I just felt like I was interrupting. Its much easier for me to approach women in this type of setting than men. Thus it made it doubly hard to feel at ease. But regardless, this was not the reason I started this thread so please disregard any comments pertaining to the the lack of women at the AK Fest. That was an inappropriate comment and certainly not any ones fault or something that I should have taken issue with.

2.) Perhaps I walked in with certain expectations when I should have had an open mind. But I can't help the feel and vibe I got. I was definitely an outsider there. It was quite clear this was a family and I just didn't get the feeling I was related. This is probably what caused me to to not enjoy it as much as I was expecting to. I've been to many a show and expo type setups. I never been to one that had such a inner-circle type setting and i guess i was not prepared for such.

3.) The layout was not at all what I was expecting. Small listening rooms I expected. I just didn't realize that EVERY room was going to be a small motel type room. I thought it was going to be more spread out and open. I was wrong though and this too, contributed to my disappointment.

So I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm sorry for not seeing things the way y'all do. You know the old sayin, that you can't please everyone. It sounds like most had a great time. So just keep on with what you do. It's not like I meant to rain on your parade. No sir. I just need to find my nitch with this stuff and I guess AK Fest wasn't it for me. But since it is "right in my backyard" and I know now what its all about, maybe down the road I can give it another shot. The only thing I would like to see changed is what I referred to in #3. I think that one thing would make it more noob friendly.

Well, I've read most of the posts in this thread and think this one by the OP petty much sums a lot of it up, at least for him; he just expected something different and rather than go with the flow, seemed to shut down.

FWIW, the expectation that it would be like the Great North American Auto Show speaks volumes, since these two events are practically diametrically opposed. One is a mega million dollar extravaganza promoted by some of the biggest companies in the world with a spare no expense attitude and a desire to seduce you into showrooms at a later date with smarmy talk and half nekkid wimmen. The other is a labor of love, scrimped together by a non profit hobbyist forum, and massively dependent upon the volunteer efforts of hundreds of hours by members to celebrate our common love of music and the gear that sings for us.

As to feeling like an outsider, well the Fest is really a lot like the forum; you just need the nerve to speak rather than type. Maybe the OP has more "keyboard courage" that social ease, but it seems ironic that he can post this thread, but not ask someone to spin a CD or talk about the speakers that are being played??

Bottom line is that the Fest can't be all things to all people, and just like the forum, some folks prefer to jump in and post, while others prefer to lurk in the shadows. AK is like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it and I hope to hell it stays that way. We are who we are, and don't need to be reinventing this wheel just to try to please everybody, and certainly not someone who only spends an hour at an event covering almost a full floor of a hotel; I'm astonished that anyone with any interest in audio couldn't find anything engaging in all those rooms. :dunno:

All YOU have to do is turn the handle, walk in, and smile.

I didn't go this year. Turns out all of my money is going to pay for the wedding. I do look forward to making next summer my first AK fest though. As for the atmosphere stuff the OP brought up......I am only 28 but sitting around BS'ing with "old" guys about audio sounds like a good time to me. I picture the Fest being like sitting here on the forums only ACTUALLY talking to folks and listening to systems that are WAY better than mine. Rock on AKFEST

So, like, everyone's saying it's just a bunch o' guys talking about what they like...and they have their "like" in common. Frig! might be a good weekend outta the house. Did someone mention there was booze? And a swap room...er...for audio right? j/k...I am hoping that the year doesn't go by too fast and I won't be able to make it for the next fest.

FWIW, nice to see that a hobbyist forum (volunteers) has made it this far and lasted this long in an arena that is riddled with forums that die as quickly as they start.

I think this is actually a great thread for a couple of reasons. It certainly has defined how passionate some people are about their audio/video, and gives a voice to everyone, regardless of opinions. Honestly, I have read many posts about audio gear that have drifted out of hand far faster than this one (and not to say that it's drifting) :)

just my $1

6. If anyone can figure out how to fill an audio show with interested women, your listening room at the Fest will be free, forever, and the existing membership will keep you supplied with all the hooch you can drink.

hhhmm.. I think I just figured out how to fund my trip and room next year....

Maybe not "interested" so much, but they do flirt pretty good...

Hooters as a vendor/caterer... nothing like a bunch of beer swilling old guys hungry for some wings with a pocket full of cash waiting for room service from a Hooters girl delivering.. :scratch2:

hhhmm.. I think I just figured out how to fund my trip and room next year....

Maybe not "interested" so much, but they do flirt pretty good...

Hooters as a vendor/caterer... nothing like a bunch of beer swilling old guys hungry for some wings with a pocket full of cash waiting for room service from a Hooters girl delivering.. :scratch2:

That's why I put "interested" in there. I don't think the OP wants to have to tip them, and you damn sure ain't gettin a free room for that! :D

Kuddos to the guys hosting the member rooms. These guys come to the fest, despite considerable trouble and cost out of their pocket, to display their systems for the benefit of others. There is no renumeration of their costs. They pay to be there, to the benefit of the fest. Beyond the cost, they also prepare something to show.. such as DNewman and Squidwards phono amp, Pakprotectors marvelous amps and Keggers amps. These guys are to be commended for their commitment and hospitality. Sure it's fun to exhibit, but it's also time consuming and costly. Nearly everyone sees more of the fest than an exhibitor, especially one hosting a room.. despite being there for 3 days. Some travel great distances to get there as well, such as Army and Retro. I enjoy seeing the member rooms more than anything. I look forward to meeting the members and spending time with folks that are there "Just because they love it"! They aren't there because it their job.. in fact most, if not all, had to take off work to be there. They had to pay $175 for the listening room plus the cost of a sleeping room. They exposed their equipment to damage and potential loss. As an example, Kegger trashed a tube amp as it fell while carrying it out. Nobody reimburses him for his loss.

Believe me, I am not saying this because I hosted a room and want to be thanked.. Hell, all I did was throw some stuff together, come and have fun. But many of these guys prepared for months to get ready for the fest. I say this solely because I experienced and witnessed first hand, their commitment and expense. They deserve our sincere thanks. Thank you!

To then hear negative comments, after seeing first hand the commitment to the Fest that these members and AK officials (Grumpy, his family, the moderators etc) have given, frankly grinds my behind.

If you aren't there to have fun, socialize with others in your area of interest and have a great time... please stay home. If you expect to take away more than you give.. you are sucking on the generosity of others. The exhibitors and hosts aren't complaining, but they sure as hell don't deserve to be slapped by someone who gave nothing after they have given so much.

Not everything was perfect at the Fest.. but it wasn't for the lack of trying and if I know these folks at all, next year will be better.

Lord, I hate being negative but sometimes something just needs to be said..

deleted.

Well... ya can't blame a guy for trying.. :D

I just hope there is another show next year and that I can make it. With the way family things worked out this year, even had I planned to go, I would have had to cancel...

I look SO FORWARD to getting a chance to hear all these high end systems I could never afford, and hear all the member systems.. Not to mention getting to meet all the members I talk to daily...

Sounds to me, from everything I've read, like it was a hell of a great time!!! It's all in what you make it!

And a swap room...er...for audio right?

Sure, but I was the only door prize. No takers. :tears:

:lmao:

I wrote, but didn't end up posting, a response last night. But this is the best response I have for the OP:

I felt the very same way at my first AKFest for the first hour. Then I got to talking to another member, and it branched from there, and 8 hours later I had had a great f-ing time on my 1-day. I stayed the weekend for my second, and had 5 times the fun.

I felt the same way my freshman year in college for the first few days.
I felt the same way at my first job.

Next year, come with another AKer or by yourself, and talk to someone. Anyone. And let it develop from there.

... Sunday morning my buddy and I went to the AK Fest and arrived about 10:00 AM ...

... Total time spent at the AK Fest; just over an hour at a cost of $15...

... My first and probably last AK Fest, I'm sorry to say.
Just over an hour? Sounds to me like you didn't give much effort to get anything out of AKFest.

5. I'm fairly anti-social. Rich PA probably has some yummy pills that will fix it, but until that happens, I have to make an effort to meet new people. Sadly, I also have the worst memory for faces and names, so I frequently do my best "deer-in-the-headlights" impression when I see someone I met and talked to last year, and I have a damn hard time linking real-life people with their AK personalities. As a result, I tend to be quiet initially while I struggle to figure out who the hell I'm really in the room with. The point is that unless you're one of those lucky folks that auto-remembers faces, names, and AK monikers, or gets them all instantly, every time you enter a room is a small trial. I don't think I'm alone in this,

Oh God...you've been inside my mind... :yikes: I absolutely HATE this. I was at a park dedication the other day and couldn't figure out who I was talking to. Turned out he was an administrator of a federal agency who I have met and been at meetings with several times. He remembered me instantly. Somehow I fake my way through until I figure it out, or whisper to a trusted friend, or get them to introduce themselves to my wife. It's awful.

Are there pills for this? :headscrat

I did NOT get to the AK fest this year as the ETF convention fell on the same date--and I will NOT miss that !!

I WAS there 2 years ago however. I was one of the ones selling some "Stuff" there. I did NOT make a lot of money, but enough to cover my expenses and then a little.

When I first got there, I was not "ready" for the "protocol" of the fest either...BUT it didn't take long to "figure it all out". And there WERE several women there in 2006 and ALL of them treated me VERY well, and a couple of them even went "out of their way" to help me to accommadate my "space needs" for the swap meet. No "dancing girls or models", just some VERY nice ladies, with their guys. As someone else said--if you want pin-up girls..there are other places to go. As for it being "boring"...I was there for over 12 hours...and did NOT get bored at all!!

And THAT was at the OLD hotel..and from what I gather the NEW one is a LOT nicer...the old one was somewhat run-down, but I , nor many others did NOT care...The hotel staff was NOT nasty to us and we often DID get systems "loud" and I KNOW other guests on other floors HAD to be aware of the "audio nuts" on our floor.

And then too..we were "fed and watered" quite well too. Perhaps you missed that part. It was a VERY fun time. I recall a NICE pizza lunch , and it was an "all you can eat type." I am SURE it would have cost me at LEAST $10 for the amount of pizza and pop I consumed there--ALONE. Nowadays, I CANNOT eat lunch and buy a cup of pop practically ANYWHERE, for under about $6 at least. I personally thought the admission price was a bargain.

Yes there WAS a good deal of the "esoteric" stuff there--NONE of which I could afford I my wildest dreams..but that is the POINT of it--that super-high-end stuff there for the AVERAGE JOE AND JANE to see and hear , and NOT in some "stuffy" upscale store" environemnt. Just like Homerama--they have some VERY nice homes, that probably 95% of the visitors could NEVER afford--but like to LOOK at once in a while--WITHOUT feeling like they are "not welcome".

From what I gather, the auto shows are like this too--after all..who wants a show to just go and see a Chevy Malibu?? We WANT to see the stuff we DREAM of, and would most likely BUY if our "ship ever came in".

I guess one just has to be an "audio nut" or such--to appreciate this kind of thing.

Jack

It was great--it wasn't great--blah, blah, blah. Small rooms, no strippers, high end gear, blah, blah, blah.............................................. ...:worthless

Dave

Kuddos to the guys hosting the member rooms. These guys come to the fest, despite considerable trouble and cost out of their pocket, to display their systems for the benefit of others. There is no renumeration of their costs. They pay to be there, to the benefit of the fest. Beyond the cost, they also prepare something to show.. such as DNewman and Squidwards phono amp, Pakprotectors marvelous amps and Keggers amps. These guys are to be commended for their commitment and hospitality. Sure it's fun to exhibit, but it's also time consuming and costly. Nearly everyone sees more of the fest than an exhibitor, especially one hosting a room.. despite being there for 3 days. Some travel great distances to get there as well, such as Army and Retro. I enjoy seeing the member rooms more than anything. I look forward to meeting the members and spending time with folks that are there "Just because they love it"! They aren't there because it their job.. in fact most, if not all, had to take off work to be there. They had to pay $175 for the listening room plus the cost of a sleeping room. They exposed their equipment to damage and potential loss. As an example, Kegger trashed a tube amp as it fell while carrying it out. Nobody reimburses him for his loss.

Believe me, I am not saying this because I hosted a room and want to be thanked.. Hell, all I did was throw some stuff together, come and have fun. But many of these guys prepared for months to get ready for the fest. I say this solely because I experienced and witnessed first hand, their commitment and expense. They deserve our sincere thanks. Thank you!

To then hear negative comments, after seeing first hand the commitment to the Fest that these members and AK officials (Grumpy, his family, the moderators etc) have given, frankly grinds my behind.

If you aren't there to have fun, socialize with others in your area of interest and have a great time... please stay home. If you expect to take away more than you give.. you are sucking on the generosity of others. The exhibitors and hosts aren't complaining, but they sure as hell don't deserve to be slapped by someone who gave nothing after they have given so much.

Not everything was perfect at the Fest.. but it wasn't for the lack of trying and if I know these folks at all, next year will be better.

Lord, I hate being negative but sometimes something just needs to be said..

Here Here!:beerchug:

I can't believe I've just read more than 100 posts on a fest which I doubt that I'll ever be able to attend. I think I can see where the OP is coming from but I also think that his one big mistake was in taking a friend.

He probably/possibly would have lightened up a bit more without that guilt feeling over whether his mate was enjoying things. I think we've all "been there, done that" in some shape or form.

But I think you'll probably see him next year...he seems to have the intestinal fortitude to get through this...a gutsy post for sure. :thmbsp:

after walking into a few of the rooms ... with this feeling like I was disturbing the occupants.

If either you or your buddy looked anything like these guys, it might explain why you were looked at like aliens :yikes:

On the other hand, if these are the guys you saw when you opened the door, it's surprising you stayed an hour!:D

I guess you really wanted a 'Show', rather than a Fest. Those auto shows are fantastic. And I love to attend them, but I can't say the Detroit International Auto Show is lame because I can't afford one of the high-end vehicles! ("Man, that was so lame displaying the Bentley, like we could all buy a f'n Bently").....you know what I mean.....:yes:

Get with it, man. Nobody but nobody is gonna bite you. 1 hour? I can't imagine someone critiqueing the entire weekend event after attending for one hour. You gotta get involved, kiddo.

And I didn't attend. I've been on this forum for 2 years this month. (I think). I lurked for a couple of weeks at first. I finally grew a sack and started posting. And I'm not a technical guy, or even knowledgeable compared to many of the members. And I've made many stupid posts that I wish I could retract (like this one).... But nobody ever tried to make me feel like a jerk.

I think that you should keep posting and by this time next year you'll be more familiar to this forum and won't feel so self-conscious. AK is a monumental forum with wonderful members who will bend over backwards to help you with any idiotic question you could ever imagine. Don't let their physical presence intimidate you. As I said, I've not been to an AK Fest yet, but my job doesn't allow me to at this time of the year. (If they had one in June or July I could be there).

And thanks for initiating this interesting thread. I wanted to get to sleep earlier tonite but all the responses I've read have kept me up.

Let me say: Wigwam Jones you are a blast. The Flickr pix are great, as is your style. Andyman, Cosmos, Arkay, Negotiableterms, Bauhausler, MrGee, etc....Even if you weren't there you are the sort that keep me hanging on. I can never get enough of this forum.

Rick
Warning: I'll try to attend the next fest as I may retire next year.....:yes:

and hell man, I'll dance for you, but you'll probably claw your own eyeballs out to get the memory out of your brain.


True dat! ;)

Seriously, it was a pleasure to meet you Wiggy.

I haven't slogged through this whole thread but wanted to offer up my experience. This was my first AK Fest. I had a little headstart as I've been to a small, DIY oriented fest before (Midwest Audio Fest in Lima, Oh). This was similar with smaller listening rooms spread out between vendors/manufacturers and regular joes. Anyway, I've never had a problem with jumping into threads on AK so I figured why be different in person? I showed up and just started talking to folks. I didn't wait for someone to come to me. I never had a problem being rejected or left out. Everyone I approached brought me into whatever conversation was at hand. I asked a lot of questions and gave a few answers and never felt alienated.

I made the mistake once of asking Luvvinvinyl if there was anything I could do to help but other than that I had a great time. ;)

I think if you had hung out in the member rooms and asked a few questions you'd have found that not everything was priced in teh stratosphere. Heck, Kegger was running Polk 10B's off a home made tube amp. And it sounded FANTASTIC! Granted, Kegger is quite accomplished at tube amp design but he still didn't spend a fortune to outfit his room. Squidward and dnewman also had a cost effective room (other than the Denon table, perhaps). With home brew tube amp, preamp, and phono pre and some hotrodded Cornwalls they also had an outstanding sounding setup.

And not all the vendor rooms were uber expensive. The Madisound room had a ton (tonne for you Canadians) of reasonably priced speaker offerings and they all sounded quite good.

As near as I could tell there was a bit of everything. Vintage (Kegger's Polks, Army's Spec system which was uber cool), home brew, hi zoot (the Quads in the Pure Audio room were amazing and the Mac 300W tube monsters were awe inspiring). And everyone was very nice and accomodating.

My take is that you get (got) out of it what you put into it. I just jumped in and enjoyed the heck out of the entire weekend.

RAy

For Dread, here's a shot of Kegger's amp I ref'd above. I know there are or will be tons but felt this one was appropriate to this thread.

Ray

Great show!

Want to thank Dave and company for a job well done.

Went around to most rooms and heard very good DIY and commercial sound, some of the best in resent memory.

Hotel was great much better feel than last year. Looks like 2 people
didn't care for the show not bad if ask me.....

As to several comments about affording high end gear, my advice start saving like the rest of us. Work some OT whatever it takes.
High end gear can look and sound good too, they are not always opposing forces.

Whatever way you go, its the music that matters.

For Dread, here's a shot of Kegger's amp I ref'd above. I know there are or will be tons but felt this one was appropriate to this thread.

Ray

Unfortunately, I think that might be the amp that got trashed in a fall while carrying out of the hotel... :tears:

...Kegger was running Polk 10B's off a home made tube amp. And it sounded FANTASTIC!


:thmbsp: :thmbsp:



I made the mistake once of asking Luvvinvinyl if there was anything I could do to help but other than that I had a great time.


Lol.

Unfortunately, I think that might be the amp that got trashed in a fall while carrying out of the hotel... :tears:

Say it ain't so!!

Say it ain't so!!

I suddenly feel nauseous. I hope it didn't sustain too much damage. That was a fine sounding and totally unique amp.

I was in the swap room SubW and I think I know who you are - your friend was a skinny guy with long black hair?

When I first read your post I thought hey, don't let the door hit your --- on the way out :), but after thinking about it, you did try to talk to us and we were in the middle of an important conversation. What it was about I haven't the faintest clue now!

So, sorry man, didn't mean to seem rude. Come back next year, we'll give you the proper indoctrination - zapping you with a messed up tube amp while forcing you to listen to Boy George on Bose! :D

Pete

I went to this years fest for the first time. I am local and it was just a 30 minute drive. I have to say it was not at all what I expected. The fest was not my cup of tea and I do not expect to attend in the future.

My expectation was for more vintage gear to be on display and expected a bigger gear swap. All of the newer high end stuff is of no interest to me. So a vast number of the rooms had nothing of interest. I guess what I was expecting was something similar to a vintage car show and swap meet.

However, I did not expect women and I am what the O.P. would call an "old guy" (49 next month).

By the way I did talk to a few people who I have met though the forum and enjoyed the conversation. However it was not enough to offset the negatives for me.

Just another opinion,

Boiler_81

Unfortunately, I think that might be the amp that got trashed in a fall while carrying out of the hotel... :tears:

No Fortunately it was not that one, (Woulda been a cheaper tube and 1 I have spares of though)
It was the modded ST-70 with the new JJ KT-77's an 1 of those Popped plus a minor trannie ding.

All in all not as bad as could have been, tubes were new and not to expensive, trannie straightened.
So yah I was/am a little bummed, but it coulda been worse, like an NOS Rectifier tube or the like.:tears:

So no it wasn't to bad guy's. I'll probably pick up another matched quad later. (Was all my fault)

My expectation was for more vintage gear to be on display and expected a bigger gear swap. All of the newer high end stuff is of no interest to me. So a vast number of the rooms had nothing of interest. I guess what I was expecting was something similar to a vintage car show and swap meet.
Boiler_81

I don't disagree with this, I too would like to see more/larger swap and more members rooms with DIY/Vintage.

But it's upto the members to step up and signup for swap and or a display room, not much AK can do on that.

To the OP...
Sorry you missed us, Retro and I setup a vintage room and did our best to make people feel at home. We posted in three forums before hand to hopefully steer those that wanted to hear a vintage setup at the fest. Like Craig (Nosvalves) and others we invited everyone in with a hardy "Come on in" and asked people what they wanted to hear and let them choose the volume. I do hope you give AKfest another chance and get to know the fine folks that make AKfest a great experience.

Quite franky, I'm content to just accept that AKFest is not the OP's cup o' tea.

I suspect that 98% of the AKers in attendance had one hell of a good time - myself included. The other 2% can go to an auto show, I reckon.

Quite franky, I'm content to just accept that AKFest is not the OP's cup o' tea.
Amen. That is all.

Enjoy,
Rich P

I went alone to AKFest and had a great time. I initiated conversations with many intersting people as someone has to start the conversation. People were friendly. I felt the rooms had systems of all price ranges and if vintage equipment is what you prefer to hear, get a room next year and show what you brought. I look forward to the next AKFest. Thank you to those who put it all together.

I'd like to thank the OP for being brave enough to open up this discussion.

I've learned a lot from reading this thread.

I did not attend the Fest, but I have attended two local AK get-togethers here in the Chicago area. The local parties are very informal and the conversation and the gear has been well over 75 percent vintage.

Also, the posting activity on all AK audio forums is probably over 75 percent vintage, so it's a reasonable expectation to a Fest newbie that there would be a lot of vintage discussion and gear to kick around.

I think I would still enjoy the AKFest and hope to make it some time and meet many of the great members of this group, but this a good discussion to educate the members that the majority of the activity at the Fest is about more modern gear.

I never really knew that until I read this thread.

Cheers, Snade

When I went to the 2006 Fest, the gear was actually about the last thing on my mind, 'cause as most of y'all know, I'm really more into old radios & TVs than I am hi-falutin' audio gear. I REALLY came to put faces w/names, for the fun & fellowship. But after I got there, the tremendous variety of gear kinda bowled me over-& I realised why so many of you guys are so PASSIONATE about it. I mean, I knew already, but...It just ain't the same thing as being there & seeing-and HEARING-all of it. And the best thing was to get to put faces & shake hands w/quite a few, but not nearly as many as I would have liked... Maybe one year, I can bring a Boatanchor, or an old TV or 2, & try to share MY passion w/youse audiophools...(grin)

I didn't go to this year's Fest, but I went to last year's and I was very new to AK at the time. I didn't really know anyone when I first arrived at the Fest.

I overheard some people talking about audio during breakfast in the hotel's restaurant and jumped right into the conversations. By the time breakfast was over, I had friends at the Fest. :)

When I used to go to some of my local audio dealers, a closed door on a listening room meant keep out. Somebody was in there getting a listen to some gear. I don't know that any of these places kicked anyone out for barging in, but people just didn't walk in.

So I did find that the closed doors at the Fest were a bit forbidding at first. But then I went into a couple of rooms anyway and nobody seemed to mind. In fact, I was made to feel welcome in almost all cases. (I feel there were a couple of dealers who were a bit snooty, but they were the rare exception. I also acknowledge that my perception could have been at fault there.)

Was there a lot of expensive gear there? Yes, there was a fair bit. But it's to be expected since everyone wants to bring their best. In fact, it was interesting to see some of this stuff in the flesh.

There was also a lot of stuff that wasn't expensive, and some of that was really neat too.

I didn't go with the idea of buying a bunch of stuff, so I can't say much about the swap room last year other than that the people there were really friendly.

I really enjoyed listening to some of the people who were having conversations in the various rooms. There was a lot of expert knowledge circulating around.

I'm sure that there are things that could be improved about the AK Fests. However, somebody has to volunteer to do the improving. It's not like one of the big shows that are run for profit by promoters.

I would like to go to another Fest. Fun and friends, and lots of music. :)

I think I would still enjoy the AKFest and hope to make it some time and meet many of the great members of this group, but this a good discussion to educate the members that the majority of the activity at the Fest is about more modern gear.

I never really knew that until I read this thread.

Cheers, Snade

At the 2007 Fest, there were people interested in older gear, and there was older gear to look at and listen to.

I think you'd find plenty of things to like at an AK Fest.

...a good discussion to educate the members that the majority of the activity at the Fest is about more modern gear.

There is no pattern or design to the mix of new and vintage.

In today's down economy, maybe less vintage stuff shows up because people are strapped for cash and have better things to spend on than the Fest. The high-end exhibitors have to keep showing up anyway, or they're out of business.

Next year, there could be tons of vintage stuff (I may bring some) and hopefully more exhibitors, too. If we can expand enough, there can be a whole area for vintage, and elsewhere there's talk about restoration demos and eductional talks.

Expecting the Fest to be any one thing is a sure way to miss a lot of the fun.

I think that many of you miss the point. If this is going to be a reunion event for members only, then I would agree that it falls on the shoulders of the members who choose to attend to make an effort to reach out and try to get involved. Some are better at it than others.

The fact that the event has equipment/gear sponsors tells me that they are contributing financially to the event. As non AK members will be coming to the event I am sure that they (the vendors) would appreciate the AK members making an effort to welcome the newbies - be they AK members or not. The more people spend time in the rooms and viewing the gear it is more likely that they, the vendors will see this event as a success and will want to continue to participate and/or expand their involvement and contribution to the success of the event.

It's just good business. I think that some of you take this too personally and see any suggestions as pure criticism and fail to see the benefit that could be obtained. I applaud the OP for having the cajones to make the original post and his followups.

I doubt that he was the only one who experienced this. I wonder how many non-AK members felt the same way and because they are not on the forum we will never know...

:music:

Where's that dead-horse smilie?

No we don't miss the point! We see it just fine! Your assuming we don't care
to make the fest better every year and try to do so. We do try an make it a
better fest every year with suggestions from everywhere but we also like it a
great bit the way it is and don't want to change it to much.

We also look at how much stock is put into each suggestion and where it comes
from, I don't put all that much stock into a feeling/suggestion from a "point" that
did not truly give it a try and put in some effort or wasn't even there to start with.

Every year the Vendors tell us it was a great success and WILL be back next year,
"Loved it better then any other event we attend" So AKFEST is on the right track.

There was another member that had probably one of the nicest sounding speakers that I heard, sorry that I forgot you name, but those tall twin Fostex drive speakers were killer!!!

Pakprotector. And yes, they were really good.

I have been unable to make it to the fest yet. Next year I will be there. I am glad that everyone puts such an effort into putting on the fest. Sounds like a lot of people had a good time.:thmbsp:

To the OP...
Sorry you missed us, Retro and I setup a vintage room and did our best to make people feel at home.

And you guys did a damn fine job. That was one of my favorite rooms. Heck, they even went so far as to give a listen to my little boombox as I was walking by with it. I heard quite a few "come on in!" calls when the door opened up a crack. The first question from the hosts was always "what do you want to listen to?" I heard stuff from jazz to "Stranglehold" come out of that room. Good on ya, guys.

Ray

I understand your point - I am just saying take a moment and look at it from his point of view. This group is full of your friends, people you have established a relationship with. He came in knowing not a single soul. I already suggested that he should have reached out to meet some of the folks and make a connection. It also sounds like maybe some of the members could have recognized they were in their own little groups and perhaps made an effort to reach out to the newbies.

Not picking on anybody, just trying to give a neutral point of view. To be honest, the more I read I get the feeling that I probably won't go to one of these events either anytime in the future. Sounds more and more like a gathering of old friends who already know each other and not designed to attract new blood. Maybe I'm wrong. I am just going to sit back and read the followup and see how it plays out...

:music:
This was my first fest too and I have a bit of a social anxiety problem but I never felt like I was interrupting anybody. Quite the contrary actually. I was always welcomed into the member rooms and asked to sit and listen with them and join in the conversation. Same goes for the vendor rooms. Nobody there knew either myself or my father who went with me but they acted like we were all old friends. We had a lot of fun and will definately attend next year. It was a great time for most I guess, and should have been a great time for all, that is if you wanted to make it a great time.

I have been unable to make it to the fest yet. Next year I will be there. I am glad that everyone puts such an effort into putting on the fest. Sounds like a lot of people had a good time.:thmbsp:

Fantastic! I really think the majority of attendees had a super mega awesome time. I think there have only been 2 or 3 negative type posts about it. If you think about it's a festival environment, not a swap meet with garage sale/thrift store prices. It does cost money to secure a room/table to sell your wares. I have a crapload of old stuff I could of brought to try and sell, but I would have had to be there constantly and dicker over prices with potential buyers and drag stuff home if I didn't get my price.
My hat is off and my beer is tipped to Andy, Pete, & Mario for their swap room. I had fun with them & got a some great deals. As stated, you get out of it, what you put into it.

And you guys did a damn fine job. That was one of my favorite rooms. Heck, they even went so far as to give a listen to my little boombox as I was walking by with it. I heard quite a few "come on in!" calls when the door opened up a crack. The first question from the hosts was always "what do you want to listen to?" I heard stuff from jazz to "Stranglehold" come out of that room. Good on ya, guys.

Ray

Thanks Ray, I really enjoyed your boombox, it was very cool :thmbsp:

People I had a freckin BLAST.

As anyone who knows MarkW will tell you, I would have been shocked if he *hadn't* had a good time. :D

I think that many of you miss the point. If this is going to be a reunion event for members only, then I would agree that it falls on the shoulders of the members who choose to attend to make an effort to reach out and try to get involved. ..... I wonder how many non-AK members felt the same way and because they are not on the forum we will never know...



I respect the OP's opinion, and wish he had spent more time there to get a better feel for the event. I respect his opinion because he actually spoke about his personal experience. You sir, are speaking about an event you have no fecking idea about, only heresay, and that is a damn slippery slope on which to dwell.

Out of the 600-800 people there I doubt that 25% were active members. And while I spoke to everyone who had a username on their nametag, I also enjoyed talking to 20-30 more who had no username....hardly a members only club.

As one of the youngest members (maybe youngest ever?) to fly to the fest last year I think I'd have a decent experience to judge how welcoming the fest is. I found it to be the exact opposite of yours. AK members went out of their way to pick me up and drop me off at the airport. These are people I never met or talked to other then PMs on this site. I even had one room host offer to hold onto my lugage until my hotel room was ready. Ever vendor gave me the time of day regardless how much their equipment cost. Yes, it felt odd having to open doors but you get over it. My only regret at this point is I could not make it this year.

I think you really need to give it a fair shot. The only thing I didn't get at the fest was a big welcoming hug from tentoze.

I had breakfast last year with StuartK, this year with Ballylongford. they both just asked politely if they could join my son & I, and the converations pretty much started themselves. maybe they are type A personalities or something, but they both left a lasting impression with me. :thmbsp:

Geeez! I have read this thread "cover to cover" and I can tell you, if I can find my way over the border I will most certainly be there! I think though, I will wear one of those bristol board signs that say "?"...should be a conversation piece at the very least. (I ask alot of questions:)

But still, I certainly thought there would be something for everyone at the Fest. That was not to be. They had one tiny room with some older used stuff, which in my opinion wasn’t even worth putting on eBay, let alone on display and for sale at an audio show.


You certainly attended a different Fest than I did. Let's see without looking at the list - there's was DGWojo's and Punkers's room with vintage gear that was tricked out including a couple pair of Altec speakers. Kegger's room with vintage Denon DP62L TT, diy amp, vintage Polk 10's and he probably woulda' hooked up his cool Dynaco ST70 if you had asked. Ed and Dnewman had some tricked up Cornwalls being played by a coupla' different diy amps and preamps. Loved their new loktal Cornet phono amp being driven by the Denon 59L. Retro Stereo and Army had a roomful of 70's Pioneer Spec gear driving some vintage Infinity speakers. Sorry I'm sure that I've forgotten someone but that's just off the topa' my head. I loved it.

The only thing I didn't get at the fest was a big welcoming hug from tentoze.

I had to stand in line for that this year, but it was well worth it.

I think my wife, who visited most of the listening rooms with me and met a lot of AKers, would be offended to learn that there were "no women" at the Fest.

Ya' know I could think of a few women who were at the show. And all were gorgeous creatures with amazing intellects and golden ears...much like the fine men of AK...except for BigMac who forgot his thong this year. :D

Well guys, it appears as though I stirred things up a bit. After a couple days of thinking and reading your posts, I think it's quite clear my opinion of the AK Fest has been met with strong opposition, which is solidified by a number of PMs I've received. Obviously if I was a seasoned AK member, I would probably have never initiated a thread of this nature. So for all of you commenting on my bravery, it's more that I just didn't know any better, rather than an act of courage. I expected a few opposing comments, sure. But had no idea I was messing with such a passionate crowd. Sounds like this AK Fest has a real loyal group of friends and perhaps it would be better without noobs like me spouting off. Makes me think it would be best if I just left things be.

I need to say one thing though about some of the comments made in this thread. None of you were in my shoes and despite your descriptive elaborations of how folks at the Fest are all so friendly and welcoming, that was not what I experienced. I read the comments that said I lack social skills and that I didn't put anything into it; thus the reason I didn't enjoy myself. But y'all that made those comments likely had "friends" there. Every room I walked into; it was awkward. Some almost had a vibe like I walked in on lovers. OK, maybe that's a slight exaggeration. But it just felt strange, like I didn't belong. Like this was a wedding and I crashed it. No one was flat out rude, but I sure didn't feel the love.

Perhaps I actually just had bad luck/timing in the rooms I entered. But after repeated similar experiences opening closed doors, I began to get a little apprehensive. And almost every one had the curtains pulled tightly shut. Does that sound like a welcoming atmosphere for a noob to you? How y'all are so surprised I stayed only a little over an hour is a mystery to me. I'm surprised I stayed that long.

One very valid point was made though by several who replied to this thread that I think holds water. And that is I probably should have gone by myself, rather than bring a friend who also had never been there before. I did kind of keel like it was sort of my duty to make sure he had fun and when I seen he was disappointed and not having a good time, it did have an effect on me. Heck, had i been by myself I might have even tried to break the ice with some of y'all. Because if you look at my profile, I'm certainly not a 20 something young man (like some of ya think). And who knows, maybe I would even made a friend or two. :yes: That would made a big difference and I could see that this is more than just an audio show. The "inner circle" vibe was alive and well. But obviously the comments I've made here certainly hasn't helped me in that area.

So bottom line is I aint blaming anyone. I reckon it was a combination of friend in tow, poor timing, and inflated show-mentality expectations that contributed to my opinion that the Fest was boring and non-noob friendly. But I stand by my original comments that although its great to have some wildly expensive gear, I think more displays showing blue-collar, swap meet kind of stuff, would make it much more interesting for first timers and those of us who would like to compare quality entry-level to mid-level components.

Case-in-point; I walked into the Quad room intending to test out some of their bookshelf speakers. That's the room that had the amazing $10k speakers. Nice? Oh yeah. Amazing sounding? You betcha! But even though friendly occupants were welcoming me in. Just felt out of my league and exited quickly to make room for more qualified potential customers. :ntwrthy:

Originally Posted by SubWolfer View Post
But still, I certainly thought there would be something for everyone at the Fest. That was not to be. They had one tiny room with some older used stuff, which in my opinion wasn’t even worth putting on eBay, let alone on display and for sale at an audio show.

Joyce, my guess is that this was a shot at the gear in our Swap Room.

My stuff was tossed together pretty much as a listening station, but the EPIs were for sale for less than I could flip the woofers alone on eBay. And the Marantz 1030 was an AK member donation to Grumpy and was sold with all the proceeds going to AK. The Dual was a beater, but it worked with a Shure MX97e cartridge and was not for sale
FWIW, Large Advents, EPI 100s, vintage Pioneer separates, Marantz 1030s, Dual turntables, and much of the other gear in the Swap room may not be the cutting edge of modern audio, but certainly is worthy of use and display at an audio show.

Perhaps the OP is one unworthy of the audio show???

Ya' know I could think of a few women who were at the show. And all were gorgeous creatures with amazing intellects and golden ears...much like the fine men of AK...except for BigMac who forgot his thong this year. :D

All the women I met fit that bill to a "T". Not sure I'd agree about the men though!

I've made several posts in this thread and note that this was my first AK event of any kind. Before this fest I had met exactly 2 AKers, one who I bought a piece of gear from before I found out he was on AK and one who is an old running buddy of mine. I still think you get out of it what you put into it. Same goes for posting on the fora. If you don't ask, you may lurk forever looking for your answer. At the fest, if you don't jump into a conversation or a listening room then you may be a wallflower for the whole event.

I think more displays showing blue-collar, swap meet kind of stuff, would make it much more interesting for first timers and those of us who would like to compare quality entry-level to mid-level components.

So can we sign you up for a room next year? That's what it takes. If you think the fest needs a blue collar room then grab a buddy or 2, put your gear together, and show the world. Maybe a bunch of people will think the same thing and next year the vintage, mid-fi, and entry level stuff will outnumber the high zoot stuff.

A note here...AK is NOT about vintage or cheap gear exclusively. It's about all audio (no attitude) no matter the year of manfacture or price tag.

Ray

You certainly attended a different Fest than I did. Let's see without looking at the list - there's was DGWojo's and Punkers's room with vintage gear that was tricked out including a couple pair of Altec speakers. Kegger's room with vintage Denon DP62L TT, diy amp, vintage Polk 10's and he probably woulda' hooked up his cool Dynaco ST70 if you had asked. Ed and Dnewman had some tricked up Cornwalls being played by a coupla' different diy amps and preamps. Loved their new loktal Cornet phono amp being driven by the Denon 59L. Retro Stereo and Army had a roomful of 70's Pioneer Spec gear driving some vintage Infinity speakers. Sorry I'm sure that I've forgotten someone but that's just off the topa' my head. I loved it.

No, unfortunately, I missed those rooms. Probably because I didn't know what was in them because doors were closed and curtains shut. My bad for not seeking them out? Sure, I'll accept that. But my prior experiences in other rooms played a major role in my overlooking subsequent rooms . This was my first time and I guess I didn't know what to look for. I had no idea what was in certain rooms because the room names were foreign to me. I relied on familiar vendor names (Marantz, McIntosh, Quad, etc). I'll be the first to admit I was somewhat lost and didn't really know what rooms to be certain to check out. Again, my bad, but it wasn't like there was a beginners guide included with my entry fee.

Confusion, closed doors, pulled curtains, extremely expensive gear in the rooms I did enter, the feeling of interrupting conversation, and a lack of knowledge and just plain being unaware of what certain rooms held (because I couldn't just look in and see) all played a part in my experience.

I'm not blaming anyone but myself at this point as I know a lot of good people worked hard to put this event on. I just wanted to share my experience with y'all and let ya know it wasn't fun for everyone, and why.

closed doors, pulled curtains,

This keeps coming up so a couple points here:

1) AK was under a microscope here as it was the first time at this hotel and there was a wedding there Saturday that was not to be interfered with. The doors had to be closed to keep the sound in. Just a fact of life. I thought the rooms did a good job of sound containment and the system operators showed good restraint.

B) Glass is a horrible surface, acoustically speaking. Hotel rooms are not kind to stereo systems and keeping the glass covered by curtains was one way to ameliorate the problem (love that word). It wasn't about exclusion, but about getting the best sound possible out of a bad room.

Ray

Thanks for checking back in on the thread. I was afraid we lost you for good!

I think you've probably read most of the replies...

Doors closed and unwelcoming: Every door was propped open by the latch or deadbolt, so all you had to do was push and walk in.

Curtains drawn: Sound-muffling, and block out the distraction of people walking by so you could concentrate on listening.

Unfriendly and unwelcoming people: Well, everybody I said "Hi" to said "Hi" back. And, as has been posted, 75% of the attendees were not AK members, and I certainly didn't know all the members that attended.

But the following post may have said the most about the true reason you felt uncomfortable as you went from room to room:

...Just felt out of my league and exited quickly to make room for more qualified potential customers. :ntwrthy:

You were looking at the situation completely incorrectly. The high-end gear was NOT there just for "more qualified potential customers", it was there for everybody to listen to. Everybody. It was there to educate you to the possibilities, to open your ears to sounds you may never have heard before, and to give you a point of reference, of comparison, every time you listen to another system in the future.

Believe me, the vendors all know what percent of browsers will actually buy, and it ain't high. I just walked in and planted my butt on the couch, or stood in the corner when the room was full. The most common question I heard from the vendor in each room? "What would you like to listen to?" You have no idea how many vendors responded with a big smile when I said: "Wow, that really sounds great!" as I was leaving each room.

That's all they wanted to hear. That's all you needed to say.

At least one thing that does come from this thread, we need to highlight the
members and swap rooms on the room list everyone gets when they come in
and state there will be DIY and Vintage in these rooms if one is seeking that.

I think that would help people looking for that and meeting more members.

(I personally love the new stuff from all the vendors and judge mine by it)
Heck I may even buy a piece or two that intigrates into my own that I want.

I plan on doing a room every year and doing my part to greet all the members,
sure it's a lot of work shlepping all the gear back and forth with all the issues/
wear and tear but I do enjoy it and want to do my part of creating a "space".

I wish more would/could join in with us an creating members rooms.

You could even try 6 or 8 members each bringing a piece to setup a system an
share the room cost/watching and greeting people. (each piece to create a system)
(Setup ahead of time of'course in the forums and get together at the fest with it)
Could be a lot of fun and great way of meeting some of the people around the fest.

I'll be the first to admit I was somewhat lost and didn't really know what rooms to be certain to check out. Again, my bad, but it wasn't like there was a beginners guide included with my entry fee.



There was a list of rooms at the check-in (stacks of them) which very clearly stated where the members' rooms were. You just didn't give it a chance if you left in an hour. I spent more than an hour in some rooms.

Some people went there looking for expensive gear and would have been disappointed if it were all vintage. AK is about trying to help everyone get a good listen at a variety of gear from vintage to diy to low priced new (madisound was there with kits) to expensive new. All you had to do was look and if you didn't see, ask....almost anyone.

It wasn't about exclusion, but about getting the best sound possible out of a bad room.

Ray

And y'all wana go back to the same hotel and use those same rooms? That was also one of my complaints. I felt the rooms were too small and cramped. more than 5 or 6 people in there was uncomfortable. I really was surprised by this high-end gear setup in tiny hotel rooms. I understand this was a last minute switch to the Embassy. But I can't understand the desire to go back there. I can only imagine how chaotic and crowded those rooms were on Saturday.

And y'all wana go back to the same hotel and use those same rooms?

If the choice is between a nice hotel with crappy (acoustically speaking) rooms or a crappy hotel with crappy rooms I'll go with the former every time. Unless we start having the fest in something like an Extended Stay type hotel the rooms aren't going to get much better. At least these had a couch and some chairs to sit in.

Ray

Good fucking grief.

And y'all wana go back to the same hotel and use those same rooms? That was also one of my complaints. I felt the rooms were too small and cramped. more than 5 or 6 people in there was uncomfortable. I really was surprised by this high-end gear setup in tiny hotel rooms. I understand this was a last minute switch to the Embassy. But I can't understand the desire to go back there. I can only imagine how chaotic and crowded those rooms were on Saturday.

When we get the hotel to ourselves and spread out more it will be a little different,
doors can be open and things can be arranged better if it's not a last minute switch
like it was this year, but whatever hotel type situation your in the rooms will not be
very large, so yah it'll be a lot like it is in most respects, it's been this way for years
and when given a chance it does work out pretty well, most enjoy it quite a bit.:D

There really isn't much other way of doing it.

That was a beautiful hotel, just not very well suited to an audio show due to the size of the rooms. That all I was saying.

There was a list of rooms at the check-in (stacks of them) which very clearly stated where the members' rooms were. All you had to do was look and if you didn't see, ask....almost anyone.

I'm tired of trying to defend myself. I'm a noob and didn't have fun. Why? Obviously from what some of y'all have said it was because:

1.) I can't read clearly stated statements
2.) I lack social skills
3.) I put nothing into it
4.) I'm not worthy of an audio show
5.) I'm inpatient and didn't give it a fair chance
6.) The blame lies squarely at my feet

Good fucking grief.

OK, I'm in the wrong. Its all my fault I didn't have fun. I blame myself for wasting my time and money. I get it. I hear y'all loud an clear. If I do go back, I think I should probably leave my user-name off my name-tag. Obviously I aint gona win no friends this way. Sorry for expressing my opinion and raining on your parade. I'm out of place (again). My bad.

How do I turn off my PMs?

I think you'd be surprised if you did come back next year with your nametag
you'd be welcomed just like nothing was ever said, in fact now people "may"
go out of there way to make sure you find what your looking for.

Good Luck!

OK, I'm in the wrong. Its all my fault I didn't have fun. I blame myself for wasting my time and money. I get it. I hear y'all loud an clear.

There are some things I do not like about this place but when it happens I step off the computer and go back to my everyday life rather then crapping on the lawn.

I'd like to echo the sentiments of Mr. Anderson...

Crikey.

Life is what you make of it. Pick up the pieces and move on.

BTW, I have a good friend who's into Victrolas of all things. I think I sense a road trip for next year. Heck, probably be cheaper to fly.

Folks,

This has gone on for 11 pages and it started being mostly recycled positions about the middle of page 2.

SubWolfer,

I'm genuinely sorry you didn't enjoy the Fest. You are entitled to your opinion, just as every member is entitled to his/her opinion.

No one here is going to convince you that your opinion is invalid, and continuing to restate it is not going to convince anyone else that their's is invalid, whether it goes on for 11 or 1100 pages.

Why don't we let this fall off the bottom of the page now?

But y'all that made those comments likely had "friends" there. Every room I walked into; it was awkward. Some almost had a vibe like I walked in on lovers. OK, maybe that's a slight exaggeration. But it just felt strange, like I didn't belong. Like this was a wedding and I crashed it. No one was flat out rude, but I sure didn't feel the love.

I would like to make just one last comment, and this may unfortunately seem like an attack - please believe me when I say I do not mean it that way...

But it just felt strange, like I didn't belong.

"It" did not feel strange; "you" felt strange. Others walked into the same rooms you did, and believe me, very few of us 'knew' each other or very many of each other there. Some rooms I saw a few familiar faces - most of them, I saw none that I knew on sight, and probably it took a few minutes of jogging my damaged brain cells to remember them once they told me their screen names.

I walked into the same rooms you did. Did I feel like I was interrupting anything? No, not that I recall. Did I 'feel the love'? Not especially - but I also didn't feel like maybe I should go away. Was the gear too expensive for my budget? Yep, nearly all of it.

If it did not bother most of us, but it did bother you...does this tell you anything? Remember, it was the first fest for many, and lots were newbies just like you.

I do know something of what you seem to have felt, though. I recently went to a "Kiss Expo" here in Detroit. I drove quite a long way out to Romulus, MI, and paid $20 to attend the 'expo'. Upon entering the room, I discovered that the 'expo' was in fact ONE CONFERENCE ROOM which held about 20 8x10 tables. There was a stage where a tribute band would be playing later, four Kiss mannequins, and dealers at every table selling eBay close-out Kiss memorabilia that had remained unsold since the 1980's. About 20 dealers, about 15 fans, all of whom quite clearly knew each other. I took about five photos and left. What a waste of time and money - for me. The guys who were clearly into were - well - clearly into it. Get it?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3105/2338560277_a5c876b240.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/2338560277/)

I figured it was not that the people there were not into me - I just wasn't into them. Lesson learned, I kept steppin'. What I did not do was tell them - even politely - how lame their expo was and how I would not be back. Why? They like what they're doing. I didn't 'get it' but there you go - life's like that.

I guess the point here, if there is one, is that not everything is for everybody. People in this thread have been super nice to you for the most part, trying to jolly you into seeing that we're all a bunch of nice people and you'd like us if you gave us a fair shake. Well, we are a bunch of nice people. But maybe we ain't your kind of nice people. So shake the dust off your sandals and move on, brother. No harm, no foul, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

OK, I'm in the wrong. Its all my fault I didn't have fun. I blame myself for wasting my time and money. I get it. I hear y'all loud an clear. If I do go back, I think I should probably leave my user-name off my name-tag. Obviously I aint gona win no friends this way. Sorry for expressing my opinion and raining on your parade. I'm out of place (again). My bad.

Dude, quite frankly, I don't give a shit whose fault it is that you didn't enjoy the Fest and I'm very sorry that you didn't. Just quit whining about it. The Fest was what it was and most here that went think it was pretty great. You don't. Okay. Get over it.

Far as I'm concerned, this thread will be ancient history tomorrow if we just let it die. Then we (which includes you) can talk about something important.....like music or gear or loose women or getting drunk. I really don't care. Let's just change the subject.

Life is what you make of it. Pick up the pieces and move on.



No worries here. It's not like I got a razor-blade held to my wrist or anything like that. :no: And it won't be long and Summer will be here. Lots of other "Fests" where I'm sure to have a good time. Harley Fest comes to mind. :D Also the Oktoberfest in Frankenmuth, now that's a "Fest" :thmbsp:

Thread closed. Everyone can move on now, like it or not.