Turntable Honeymoon is over, help me get it back

[2uberoller]

Last week I picked up a technics Sl1200 mk5 and was so happy to be able to listen to my old Lp's that I did not listen to my cd's. I picked up a cd, Elton Johns greatest hits I and compared it to my LP. The cd sounds much better ! My cd player is a Mcintosh mvp-861. Sorry, I do not mean to create heat on this forum but am I alone here ? The cd is smoother sounding, tighter base, no crackles, truer sounding high's. I am even considering returning the turntable now that my eyes are wide open.

[kermit z]

What cartridge are you using?

[Sansui Louie]

Well, enjoy your CD player then.

[Bigerik]

Sounds like you need to clean your records too. Ideally with a record cleaning machine.
No one ever said that vinyl was cheaper or easier.
Also, what phono stage are you using?

[EasyRiderNYC]

RCM and a better cartridge.

Also, a 300 dollar TT is not going to compete with a 4000+ dollar CDP.

Pick up a copy on Vinyl of Donald Fagen "The Nightfly" and give that a spin.

[cactuscowboy]

I would not give up on vinyl based on one A-B comparison. Some CD versions are better than the LP and vice versa.

Although I own some fine sounding CDs, I rarely play CDs at home. I simply prefer the sound of records.

[92ES5sp]

Well its a give in you guys have a lot better gear than I do but if I may:

Ive had my SL-1300 for about a month, and in that time with all tweaking and messing around with it, the sound is as good as its gonna get. It sounds killer now. Since the VTA is non adjustable on it, ive tried experimenting with the other platter mats from my other 2 TT's. Ive gotten the table level and cartridge/tonearm where they need to be. I found the "sweet spot". Last night I spun 2 sealed LPs, and then played the CD versions. They were Foreigner 4, and John Fogerty - Centerfield. I liked the sound of the LP better, although it was very close. The CD cant duplicate that nice warm tone of an LP. My cart is an AT 3482 btw. The CD can duplicate the highs (a bit) better, but to me its kind of "artificial". Im not an audiophile by any means, but I am a musician, and the ears dont lie. And if someone is going to bash my speakers, come over to my place for a couple cold ones, and you can hear them for yourself.

I would just try fooling around with it until you get it dialed in, because once you do, and you hear the results, it all pays off.

[similost]

I have a couple CD's that sound better than vinyl, but they are the exceptions.. over all.. I find vinyl much better sounding...

I also wonder about how your table is set up, and what cart you have on it. A cart can make the difference of sounding like crap, and sounding like angels singing... it's not as easy as plopping on a disk, and instantly sounding fantastic. Like all the rest of your system, you have to find the setup that plays well together, and pleases your ear. It might take you a few carts to find that point...

Try other albums and CD's.. I'm sure you will find some of both that sound like crap, but I bet you'll find more CD's sounding bad than albums... at lease with my collection, that's the case.. and I've got lots of both...

[2uberoller]

What cartridge are you using?

My cartridge is a Ortofon OM5E and my pre-amp is a Mcintosh c220. I agree it may not be fair comparing this set up with my CDP. What is a decent MM cartridge , or should I just upgrade the stylus ?

[BroonsBane]

My cartridge is a Ortofon OM5E and my pre-amp is a Mcintosh c220. I agree it may not be fair comparing this set up with my CDP. What is a decent MM cartridge , or should I just upgrade the stylus ?

Your cartridge is very much an inexpensive entry level unit and you can do much much better for not a whole lot of money. Just depends on you're budget as to what you decide to get.

[George1355]

If you are doing 1 to 1 comparision to make up your mind it is a crapshoot depending on the album; if you had tried it with any early clean Led Zeppelin album the results would of been staggeringly in favour of the Vinyl. Some stuff just sounds amazing on vinyl.

I agree with the statements about cleaning your record before you decide.

[LousyTourist]

I'm thinking you should throw in the towel. After all, a whole week? C'mon. How many seconds did it take to dial in the CD player?

Send me your records. You can keep the Elton John ones.

[Arkay]

Since I've only bought vintage TTs in recent years, every one of them has needed some TLC. New stylus at the very least, and in the case of some idler-wheel drives, complete disassembly, cleaning and re-building with fresh lubrication, and in some cases repair of electronic controls or damaged/oxidized wires, sometimes adjusting speed controls and tweaking suspension -and that was all BEFORE finding/choosing a cart that matches the tonearm well, getting all aspects of the tonearm properly adjusted, and then matching up a phono pre/transformer/preamp. And let's not speak of how fiddly and time-consuming getting some tonearms set up optimally can take...

CD players? I've never seen one that needed more than something like:
(1) Connect wires, and plug into wall power.
(2) Switch ON.
(3) Push button to open CD tray.
(4) Put in CD.
(5) Push button to close.
(6) Push "play" button.
Takes all of about 60 seconds, and a four-year-old could easily learn to do it. Okay, maybe a few more buttons to push if you want to program repeat function or skip some tracks, but that's it. No fiddling around with mechanical stuff necessary.

With vinyl, you tweak things, trying various carts, mats, wires, clamps and weights, support stands, anti-vibration tactics, etc... in the pursuit of better sound. Some people get into replacing op-amps inside their CD players, or adding dampening inside the case, but there just doesn't seem to be nearly as much worth doing to most CD players to "improve" them, as with turntables.

While CDs may occasionally benefit from a wiping off or even a careful "polishing", it is nothing like cleaning an LP. I go through a whole, almost ritualistic process of cleaning and sleeving new records, and occasionally re-cleaning them before playing.

Then one starts, carefully placing the disc on the platter (don't need to line up CDs over a spindle...), putting on the clamp or weight (again, the CD player does that for you), making sure the correct speed is selected (CDs don't have various speed settings) then starting the record. Depending on the TT, perhaps manually cuing up the arm and lowering it...

There is simply more work to vinyl than to CDs, by quite a margin. However, it is when one goes through all of that and hears the difference... hears how good vinyl CAN sound, that it all seems to be worth it.

Vinyl sound, as I see it, is at least partly EARNED. And anything earned is more satisfying than something that is simply given. Even if the work were equal, most of the time (not always, but most of the time!) I would prefer the sound of vinyl, anyway. :music: :yes:

Plus there is the "psychic benefit" of watching the vinyl spin, of seeing the arm and cartridge moving the stylus along the groove, and knowing that what you are hearing is coming from the vibrations of that tiny interface... and appreciating that this is the direct descendant of Mr. Edison's (and other people's subsequent) experiments and accomplishments... there is nothing comparable with CDs. You cannot see the laser dancing over the little bright spots, you cannot even see the movement of the disk, as other than a blur...

Then there is the question of sourcing "softwear": some titles are available on brand-new vinyl LPs, but for the most part vinyl fans are buying USED LPs, and these vary greatly in quality. Some were abused, made dirty, and/or played with poor styli, and can no longer sound the way they should, especially if you don't have a good RCM to clean them with. With CDs, if it will play at all, all it may need is a quick wipe clean and it is probably about 'as good as new'. CDs are all-or-nothing; they don't get "a little dirty" or "a little scratched".

CDs are more convenient. CDs are easier. CDs have none of the challenges of getting rid of pops and clicks. But only at the very high end (or the latest SACD/blu-ray versions, perhaps) do they approach the sonic qualities of LPs, and at no stage do they give the sense of "earned" pleasure and human-scale, "graspable" technology that TTs and LPs do.

I play both formats, but if I had to give one up, it would be the CDs. As time goes by, I get more, not less, involved in the pursuit of vinyl sound. I'm now saving to buy a particular TT that will be the most costly audio purchase of my lifetime, and it still needs some work! CDs are CDs... they do not seduce you that way, they do not draw you in to the pursuit of ever-better gear, adjustments, set-up, DIYing, etc... NOT because they are already "perfect" but because there just isn't as much you can enjoy doing to/with them... Either you enjoy this pursuit, enjoy "earning" the sound and watching the machinery do its thing, and hearing the results, or you don't. If you don't, then enjoy your CDs and forget about vinyl. No one will think any less of you for it.

[BrocLuno]

Well its a give in you guys have a lot better gear than I do but if I may:

Ive had my SL-1300 for about a month, and in that time with all tweaking and messing around with it, the sound is as good as its gonna get. It sounds killer now. Since the VTA is non adjustable on it, ive tried experimenting with the other platter mats from my other 2 TT's. Ive gotten the table level and cartridge/tonearm where they need to be. I found the "sweet spot". Last night I spun 2 sealed LPs, and then played the CD versions. They were Foreigner 4, and John Fogerty - Centerfield. I liked the sound of the LP better, although it was very close. The CD cant duplicate that nice warm tone of an LP. My cart is an AT 3482 btw. The CD can duplicate the highs (a bit) better, but to me its kind of "artificial". Im not an audiophile by any means, but I am a musician, and the ears dont lie. And if someone is going to bash my speakers, come over to my place for a couple cold ones, and you can hear them for yourself.

I would just try fooling around with it until you get it dialed in, because once you do, and you hear the results, it all pays off.

... you want to take that vinyl engine to the next level, I suggest a cartridge or stylus upgrade. Is the 3482 the top cart in that mount? With a Shibata or fine line stylus you'll probably get the highs that seems to be a tad below the CD. The issue is whether you also get harshness? With my 440MLa I got all the highs I ever wanted, but at times it was just as harsh an bad CD. When I finally stepped up to the AT150MLX I still got the highs and details that are not in many of my CDs, but also got back the smoothness that I really like in the vinyl business. And that's with used vinyl with unknown number or hours or plays :)

[BrocLuno]

My cartridge is a Ortofon OM5E and my pre-amp is a Mcintosh c220. I agree it may not be fair comparing this set up with my CDP. What is a decent MM cartridge , or should I just upgrade the stylus ?

Upgrade to an OM30 before you try switching. The difference in detail and nuance will be startling. The fine line stylus, better cantilever and better diamond make quite a difference in playback :yes:

[lini]

Yup, entdoc, at the moment your situation is similar to comparing a Mercedes S class to an Audi A4 Quattro, that unfortunately is only equipped with the tires, brakes and engine of an old VW Polo... And it's not certain whether the comparision was done on the same road in equal condition.

I'd suggest to put at least something like a Denon DL-160 on the Technics to make it a bit fairer...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

[lini]

Upgrade to an OM30 before you try switching. the difference in detail and nuance will be startling. The fine line stylus, better cantilever and better diamond make quite a difference in playback :yes:

Not a bad idea either, but then the OM body should at least be used without the little extra weight...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

[KlipschFan61]

The OM5E is the weak spot for sure.

[BrocLuno]

Last week I picked up a technics Sl1200 mk5 and was so happy to be able to listen to my old Lp's that I did not listen to my cd's. I picked up a cd, Elton Johns greatest hits I and compared it to my LP. The cd sounds much better ! My cd player is a Mcintosh mvp-861. Sorry, I do not mean to create heat on this forum but am I alone here ? The cd is smoother sounding, tighter base, no crackles, truer sounding high's. I am even considering returning the turntable now that my eyes are wide open.

So now you know. A really good top end CDP is nice thing to have :) How you get your vinyl rig to the same or better is an interesting process. It may take a while and have the odd frustration along the way. But, if you have a multi-thousand dollar CDP, you need to think about comparing at the same level. You likely don't have to spend the same amount, but by working carefully through the options, you can approach the same performance for less.

One of the big advantages your TT has is that you can buy some extra headshells (even cheapies of the 'Bay) and a few cartridges and have the ability to change voice and dynamics to match the LP. You can't do that with a CDP at all - it ain't an option. At a minimum, I'd have a Grado Red, an Ortofon OM30 (or 2M Bronze) and a pretty decent AT like maybe a 150MLX. I'd aslo have a Shure v-15 III with an SAS. With those four, you can just about match any LP out there (well close anyway).

I have 14 cartridges mounted and running. Yesterday I found a new match that surprised me. Frampton "Comes Alive" which for me was a so-so LP set. It just never sounded like it was all there or awake. Not as listless as Jackson Browne and "Everyman", which is my all time dull album with the worst production values for an expensive run & packaging. I was playing the new (used) copy of Frampton and thinking we already have a copy, why did she get this? Wonder if I'll make it to the end before it goes in the recycle box, etc? So I started switching shells/carts. Grado - nope, Shure (2 different ones, M75-T2 and M97ex - nope, Ortofon - nope, well maybe one more - Empire 2000 E/III - YES! The album just woke up and took off. Whole new dynamic and clarity. Hey this thing sounds good. Still not a giant Frampton fan, but the LP is quite listenable. This sort of match happens to me about once a week. When I find an LP that needs a cart to sound good. When they match , it's whole 'nother thing - synergy counts in cart matching as much as it does in component matching :yes:

[KlipschFan61]

I have 14 cartridges mounted and running.

BL...you are a sick, demented man. :thmbsp:

[mwicks]

I find the whole vinyl vs CD battle pretty interesting. From my personal experiences comparing the same recordings on both mediums, the ratio from cd better to vinyl better is pretty close. However, when vinyl sounds better, it REALLY sounds better. I've never had a CD make me never want to listen to the LP again, but I've had the opposite effect a good few times now.

[BrocLuno]

Yup. Kinda funny that way :)

[mwicks]

I think it's best to not just dedicate yourself to one particular format. Play the field!

[erniejade]

I 2nd the DL 160 I have it running on my 1200 also.

[92ES5sp]

Is the 3482 the top cart in that mount?

No, far from it to tell you the truth. Out of my other 2 AT carts, this one has the least miles on it. I will do a cartridge upgrade very soon; just got to do a little more research. Probably going to stay in the AT family, because thats all Ive ever owned and heard, but im open for suggestions as well. The process of experimenting and tweaking etc. is a challenge that I enjoy, especially with vinyl. Its nice to be spinning again though!!:music:
Apologies for the thread-jack.

[yohan77]

This is a bit different from what others are saying, they're stabbing at equipment....

IMO it matters the record company (read: the process) when doing a vinyl/CD comparison. The Clash's first album remastered runs circles around an original LP promo I have. However, compare it to other companies that use a totally analog process for their records, and the records are better. Sometimes, the original pressing of the orignal album on LP is the best you can find.

To delve into all of the different examples would make this post REALLY long.

Not to say equipment doesn't have an impact, but you simply can't ignore the different processes used to remaster, record, and press music nowadays.

[piwonka]

i just got a tweeked turntable going and even with a measly old grado black it sounds pretty damn good. vinyl has a few drawbacks over a cd but i can live with it. i went and bought some new vinyl last night and gave it a listen while i laced some wheels up for one of the bikes. after four albums i put the cd player back on the first thing i thought was wow, that sounds really harsh.
the record player is smoother and fatter in the midrange, the bass is a bit stronger and the highs seem just a tad bit rolled off. imaging is way different between the two though. the cdp imaging is much deeper and wider but i think that will change with a better cartridge.
i love that the midrange is fatter. i'm gonna start buying most of my jazz on vinyl now, ordered a love supreme and coltrane live at birdland today actually.

[Mr. Lin]

This is a bit different from what others are saying, they're stabbing at equipment....

IMO it matters the record company (read: the process) when doing a vinyl/CD comparison. The Clash's first album remastered runs circles around an original LP promo I have. However, compare it to other companies that use a totally analog process for their records, and the records are better. Sometimes, the original pressing of the orignal album on LP is the best you can find.

To delve into all of the different examples would make this post REALLY long.

Not to say equipment doesn't have an impact, but you simply can't ignore the different processes used to remaster, record, and press music nowadays.

You know how people in the audiophile community like to say garbage in, garbage out, when discussing one's chain of components? If you the source is poor it won't matter much if you play it on a $100 turntable setup or a $5,000 one, it's still not going to sound very good. So you need to start with a record that's a quality recording, in good shape, and relatively clean.

[2DualsNotEnough]

My cartridge is a Ortofon OM5E and my pre-amp is a Mcintosh c220. I agree it may not be fair comparing this set up with my CDP. What is a decent MM cartridge , or should I just upgrade the stylus ?

I just bought an Sl-1200mk2 used that came with an OM5e.I replaced it with my AT440Mla,and the difference was night and day.A system as nice as yours deserves a better cart.
Jimmy

[BrocLuno]

There's some room in that OM body for improvement. It's not the same body as an OM that came with the 10, 20,30 or 40 stylus. But it will accept those stylus assemblies and it will improve the sound by quite a bit. Better diamond and shape, better cantilever, better suspension, nude fit diamond all add to the ability of the stylus to track the groove. That's a lot of what cartridge upgrades are, better tracing means better detail and more information (resolution). I'd get a 20 or 30 for it and run that for a while. If you like the direction the improvement that you hear and can describe them, we can help sort out the alternatives. And, you'd end up with a good running OM for some jobs or LPs.

Re, the Grado Black. I have the equivalent of a the Black, Blue and Red. For some LPs, the Red is clearly better. But for most every day Grado listening, both my wife and I prefer the Black. It's the easiest going of the three and the most mello. Ain't nothing wrong with the base model Grado :)

[ejman]

Since I've only bought vintage TTs in recent years, every one of them has needed some TLC. New stylus at the very least, and in the case of some idler-wheel drives, complete disassembly, cleaning and re-building with fresh lubrication, and in some cases repair of electronic controls or damaged/oxidized wires, sometimes adjusting speed controls and tweaking suspension -and that was all BEFORE finding/choosing a cart that matches the tonearm well, getting all aspects of the tonearm properly adjusted, and then matching up a phono pre/transformer/preamp. And let's not speak of how fiddly and time-consuming getting some tonearms set up optimally can take...

CD players? I've never seen one that needed more than something like:
(1) Connect wires, and plug into wall power.
(2) Switch ON.
(3) Push button to open CD tray.
(4) Put in CD.
(5) Push button to close.
(6) Push "play" button.
Takes all of about 60 seconds, and a four-year-old could easily learn to do it. Okay, maybe a few more buttons to push if you want to program repeat function or skip some tracks, but that's it. No fiddling around with mechanical stuff necessary.

With vinyl, you tweak things, trying various carts, mats, wires, clamps and weights, support stands, anti-vibration tactics, etc... in the pursuit of better sound. Some people get into replacing op-amps inside their CD players, or adding dampening inside the case, but there just doesn't seem to be nearly as much worth doing to most CD players to "improve" them, as with turntables.

While CDs may occasionally benefit from a wiping off or even a careful "polishing", it is nothing like cleaning an LP. I go through a whole, almost ritualistic process of cleaning and sleeving new records, and occasionally re-cleaning them before playing.

Then one starts, carefully placing the disc on the platter (don't need to line up CDs over a spindle...), putting on the clamp or weight (again, the CD player does that for you), making sure the correct speed is selected (CDs don't have various speed settings) then starting the record. Depending on the TT, perhaps manually cuing up the arm and lowering it...

There is simply more work to vinyl than to CDs, by quite a margin. However, it is when one goes through all of that and hears the difference... hears how good vinyl CAN sound, that it all seems to be worth it.

Vinyl sound, as I see it, is at least partly EARNED. And anything earned is more satisfying than something that is simply given. Even if the work were equal, most of the time (not always, but most of the time!) I would prefer the sound of vinyl, anyway. :music: :yes:

Plus there is the "psychic benefit" of watching the vinyl spin, of seeing the arm and cartridge moving the stylus along the groove, and knowing that what you are hearing is coming from the vibrations of that tiny interface... and appreciating that this is the direct descendant of Mr. Edison's (and other people's subsequent) experiments and accomplishments... there is nothing comparable with CDs. You cannot see the laser dancing over the little bright spots, you cannot even see the movement of the disk, as other than a blur...

Then there is the question of sourcing "softwear": some titles are available on brand-new vinyl LPs, but for the most part vinyl fans are buying USED LPs, and these vary greatly in quality. Some were abused, made dirty, and/or played with poor styli, and can no longer sound the way they should, especially if you don't have a good RCM to clean them with. With CDs, if it will play at all, all it may need is a quick wipe clean and it is probably about 'as good as new'. CDs are all-or-nothing; they don't get "a little dirty" or "a little scratched".

CDs are more convenient. CDs are easier. CDs have none of the challenges of getting rid of pops and clicks. But only at the very high end (or the latest SACD/blu-ray versions, perhaps) do they approach the sonic qualities of LPs, and at no stage do they give the sense of "earned" pleasure and human-scale, "graspable" technology that TTs and LPs do.

I play both formats, but if I had to give one up, it would be the CDs. As time goes by, I get more, not less, involved in the pursuit of vinyl sound. I'm now saving to buy a particular TT that will be the most costly audio purchase of my lifetime, and it still needs some work! CDs are CDs... they do not seduce you that way, they do not draw you in to the pursuit of ever-better gear, adjustments, set-up, DIYing, etc... NOT because they are already "perfect" but because there just isn't as much you can enjoy doing to/with them... Either you enjoy this pursuit, enjoy "earning" the sound and watching the machinery do its thing, and hearing the results, or you don't. If you don't, then enjoy your CDs and forget about vinyl. No one will think any less of you for it.

Wow, this really sums it up very well! Feel exactly the same way Good job Arkay!

[BrocLuno]

BL...you are a sick, demented man. :thmbsp:

One reason I have so many is to hear for myself what all the gobbledygook is about. And to learn about set-up and tweaks on my own. Eventually I plan to do some sort of A-B-C ... test & eval with a write it up. But that's at least a year off with all the other projects in the pipeline :(

Another is that I have 3 TTs that accept universal headshells, so eventually I'll divide the pile for each machine. One in the mini-man cave, one in the shop and one at my professional office so when I get tired of the same play list on the radio, I can flip LPs and have something interesting to hear rather than my co-workers squabbling :)

[lini]

(...) It's not the same body as an OM that came with the 10, 20,30 or 40 stylus. (...)

BL, afaik it is - but, of course, it's an OM body and not an OM Super body...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

[iLUVanalog]

I absolutely agree with everyone who has said to upgrade your cartridge. You will definitely hear a difference.

How confident am I of this?.....Well, my collection of over 2,000 LP's (versus MAYBE about 100 CD's) will speak for itself!

I actually turned on a former coworker (female) to vinyl again and got her set up with a fairly modest system....Pioneer receiver SX-255; JBL speakers N28; Technics table SL-Q30 with a Shure M94E P-mount cartridge. Nothing fancy but she really appreciated it and I gave her a great deal. I also set her up with a few mainly jazz and Bette Midler LP's (giveaways but in excellent condition). SHE LOVES IT! She loves coming home and sitting in her living room with a glass of wine and listening....especially to a Cannonball Adderly LP I gave her.

[BrocLuno]

BL, afaik it is - but, of course, it's an OM body and not an OM Super body...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

I don't know for sure? There's been a lot of chatter about the 5E not upgrading the same as the OM10 and above. Could be misguided speculation or something? I never had a 5E to compare. I have two OM's. But all the chatter also says the upgrades work nicely, just a slightly different "voice" :scratch2:

[SkyLounger]

I picked up a cd, Elton Johns greatest hits I and compared it to my LP. The cd sounds much better !
The cd is smoother sounding, tighter base, no crackles, truer sounding high's. I am even considering returning the turntable now that my eyes are wide open.

I'm not sure your eyes are so wide open if you base your decision on that one comparison (mostly like others say),

This past weekend, I had my brother and his wife over for dinner and I played the A-B game with them using the LP and CD versions of Pat Metheny's Still Life Talking album (my LP copy is mint, no crackles etc...)

I did it on my Marantz 140/3200, Pioneer PL-7 w/Super OM10, Electrosound Classic VI setup. Not even on the Systemdek IIX!!!

I'll let you guess what the outcome was... or will I? Nah, LP won with everyone!

[2uberoller]

Would a Grado “Platinum” cartridge sound good on my technic sl1200 ? Would this be a bigger improvement over say buying a ortofon stylus upgrade for my existing om cartridge ?

[gusten]

With the 1200 and 5E it´s not a problem to hear when a LP is better recorded and better mastered then the CD. With the one in question it was probobly so that the CD was better. Of course it is so that some CD are better than the LP, and vice versa.
I really would recommend moving up to stylus 30, chances are You will not for a long time need anything better. Some say ít´s among the best there is no matter what price.
/gusten

[stuwee]

Most greatest hit's LP's usually sound poor compared to the originals.
Blood Sweat & Tears (GH's) is a rare exception. I have many old and slightly chewed up Sir Elton's and with my lowly set-up, I can enjoy the "piano in the room" sound he and the engineer's worked so hard to get in the mix properly. While I can hear the different types of piano's used on the cd as well, I can't get the sound of the felt hitting the strings and the affect of the pedals like I hear on vinyl, "Pretty Little Black Eyed Susie" on Honky Chateau, just nails the old upright in a bar setting (which IMO, was what Sir John had in mind with the song)
I have not heard a Mc CDP in my set-up. So I'll just say,don't give up the LP's yet, all IMHO of course. I would not have carried my 1,000's of LP's through my many house moves if I wasn't biased:D
Craig

[Sansui Louie]

Most greatest hit's LP's usually sound poor compared to the originals.

This is very true. Especially in the day when Elton's Greatest Hits (1) was released. And it's quite likely that when they re-released this collection on CD, they went back to the original masters and remastered it...which when they released it on vinyl, they did not do. They probably didn't even use the masters but took it off of slaves, commonly done for compilations back in the days of the master being a precious bit of tape.

Other unknown factors here are the whole turntable setup--not just make and models, but the geometry and location of it all.

This is why in my original post, I was rather brief, suggesting to just enjoy the CD. Turntables require a lot of effort, lack instant gratification, and if you're not willing to put in the effort, you're better off to just stick to CD's.

[2uberoller]

I just picked up a copy of Donald Fagen:Morph The Cat double LP and it sounds fabulous on my turntable/OM5e. Thanks for your responses . It is likely the cd that I listened to was just a better recording or the album is just not in new condition. This new LP sound superb !:banana:

[goanlisten]

I agree with the going consensus to upgrading the cartridge. I've rejuvenated my vinyl listening pleasure with the addition of a new AT92E cartridge about three months ago , and it only cost me $29.

The amazing thing about this upgrade was, the new stylus tip is cut differently, compared to my previous brand of cartridge/stylus. In my case that increased the response and lowered the noise because the stylus was now sitting deeper in the groove and contacting previously untouched territory. I noticed the difference right away but could never figure out why until someone on this forum explained it.........

Good luck to you,

[Fast_Eddie]

I'll add a voice to the cartridge suggestion. I ran with an Ortofon Super OM10 for a couple of years. Not bad, really. I recently upgraded to a Stanton 681 EEE. Now, I get that this isn't an uber high end autophile cart, but it is much better than the OM10 and finally put to rest the "do LPs sound better than CDs" debate, at least for me. I also asked a lot of set up questions here and have my TT dialed in much better. I'd concentrate on tracking force and VTA as they seem to have the most dramatic effect, at least for me.

Take care,

Ed

[jcmjrt]

You could buy a $3000 cartridge and you can play your dirty record on your inexpensive TT and the CD on your highline CDP will win every time.

Clean your records, buy a better cartridge, set it up properly and you'll hear real improvement. The difference in investment alone, however, should show you that the comparison is grossly unfair. If the sound even comes close after with just a good clean record that gives a pretty convincing demonstration that the medium can easily provide superior sound.

[BrocLuno]

Anyone have "extra" OM or OM Super bodies laying around that they won't be needing, just PM me and we'll work something out. When they work, they're smokin. When they don't, usually a switch to a Grado will cure the mismatch. Grados are OK on most Technics TTs as far as I know :)

I agree with the Blood, Sweat & Tears "Greatest Hits" LP. The Al Kooper cut on side 2 will drive shivers up your spine and the rest ain't to shabby. The bands that did the genesis of jazz & rock fusion are some of the most interesting to dig back into. With the passage of time, it becomes more obvious what they were trying to achive :)

[the keester]

I just picked up a copy of Donald Fagen:Morph The Cat double LP and it sounds fabulous on my turntable/OM5e. Thanks for your responses . It is likely the cd that I listened to was just a better recording or the album is just not in new condition. This new LP sound superb !:banana:

i KNEW that was the issue.

one thing i found out when getting into vinyl (that not a lot of people talk about) is that there is a WIDE variation in vinyl sound quality. the better the system the more youll hear the variations. lately ive been focusing on getting original 1st pressing of my favorite albums and i clean them with my vpi cleaner. an isolation table for my turntable was another factor in sound quality.

i actually puchased three of each of beatles revolver and rubber soul and three pink floyd the wall just to get the best ones. its actually fun to compare them.

[BrocLuno]

Not only is there variation among the generations of pressings (and how far into the run you LP was pressed (masters do wear), but as they got re-mastered or tweaked to to Cassette or Reel production, the sonics changed. I worked at GRT for a few years and when we duped a distribution master for a slave machine, we might re-eq it for tape. Sometimes those adjustment really brought a master to life. That's what got be to thinking about trying different cartridges with some LPs. Some LPs and some carts just seem to go together so well :)

[EasyRiderNYC]

I just picked up a copy of Donald Fagen:Morph The Cat double LP and it sounds fabulous on my turntable/OM5e. Thanks for your responses . It is likely the cd that I listened to was just a better recording or the album is just not in new condition. This new LP sound superb !:banana:

Get The Nightfly too!

Since I got back into vinyl it has been hit or miss, but the hits are amazing, the sound is all over, hangs in the air.

[EasyRiderNYC]

This is a bit different from what others are saying, they're stabbing at equipment....

IMO it matters the record company (read: the process) when doing a vinyl/CD comparison. The Clash's first album remastered runs circles around an original LP promo I have. However, compare it to other companies that use a totally analog process for their records, and the records are better. Sometimes, the original pressing of the orignal album on LP is the best you can find.

To delve into all of the different examples would make this post REALLY long.

Not to say equipment doesn't have an impact, but you simply can't ignore the different processes used to remaster, record, and press music nowadays.

I would like a list to start. I tried to get one going in Music.