OK, here we go:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/ele/670146159.html

I love this quote: "my back isn't what it was then, so I don't wanna bother to put them on ebay". You have to lift them up to get them on eBay?

I ranted about this before, but it's sadly true: Ebay is the absolute arbiter of price for everything now. And it's so sad...:tears:

"Here's a box of rusted and busted up old junk. Nothing lights up or powers on, but a box just like this sold on eBay for $40- so that's what I'm asking. That's only fair." Thrift stores use them for pricing, and so do estate sales, pawn shops...God!

I have a room full of equipment I'm going to put on CL here in Phoenix, and I really am selling to get the room back. But I won't be using eBay or CL or anything else as my price guide- it will be priced for what I think it's worth, to me or to another collector.

You can't bribe me, and I won't sell out. Fair is fair- or at least it used to be...:tresbon:

I agree with you, but he can ask whatever he wants for it. The market will decide for him. With peoples' disposable income rapidly declining, I think we may see items starting to go for more down to earth prices then in the past.

When I see crap at thrift stores and yard sales priced at Ebay prices, I simply tell them "good luck" and move on. I may give them my phone number if it is something special so they can call me when they finally realize it isn't going to sell for their asking price. If they are rude, I tell them to sell it on Ebay instead. Almost anyone with a pulse can get an account.

On the other hand most people don't have a clue what their old stereo worth now. Where else they can look for a valuation?

OK, here we go:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/ele/670146159.html
I ranted about this before, but it's sadly true: Ebay is the absolute arbiter of price for everything now. And it's so sad...:tears:



I complain about this phenomenon all the time too.. It's what I have branded as ebation... and I despise it... a good description of ebation is: an owners overly inflated ideas or worth, more often than not, based on a couple of ebay noobs and their bidding stupidity.

I'm having sadly, to look at this another way. If I want to be able to sell a piece for what I consider a decent price by at least putting a reserve on it I have to go to ebay. As an example...............

I recently put my Musical Fidelity A5 amp for sale at less than half the original cost with 165 views with no takers. I fully understand that perhaps no one wants this particular model or make, that the economy is sluggish, or even at less than half the price $1000 is a lot of money. I'm absolutely cool with that and I'm not whining.

But at the same time I read so much about the big score's here that I'm wondering if that's what it's all about. If you have the expertise and chance to buy a less than perfect piece and refurbish it, more power to you. I wish I had that ability but don't. If you want to scour yard sales, estate sales etc. go for it. Why not save money when you can. But sometimes I think there are those here that want something for nothing.

I don't particularly care for ebay in some respects but in order to get what I think a piece is worth I'm forced to. I only try here first because I know that gear here is appreciated and I'd like to give good deal's to fellow AK'ers rather than having to deal with ebay buyers.

With that said I have had luck with some items here, but again I sold them for less than their worth to........1. Let it be known that I'm willing to make good deals here and........2. Again, make some AK'ers a good deal. And to the ones that have bought from me I Thank You.

I guess my point to this ramble is to say that if I do want to receive a fair price for my gear I have to go to ebay.

I understand what you all are saying and again please, please don't take this as sour grapes on my part because my item didn't sell but if it weren't for the prices on ebay I wouldn't be able to move anything. Are prices inflated, yes, sometimes. Are there less than honest sellers, of course. Do some think that just because it's X,Y or Z named it should sell for outrageous amounts, yup everyday.

I just want the chance to get a decent price for decent gear. For that I'll use ebay. My 2 cents................................R1:music::yes :

Ebay has created a stable marketplace for second hand sales, it makes sense that it has become the defacto standard for valuation.

dew.

It does make all our vintage gear worth more. :D

I ranted about this before, but it's sadly true: Ebay is the absolute arbiter of price for everything now. And it's so sad...:tears:

"Here's a box of rusted and busted up old junk. Nothing lights up or powers on, but a box just like this sold on eBay for $40- so that's what I'm asking. That's only fair."
Yep ebay is the new blue book.

Interesting, forget the politics, the Braun reel to reel if it is the 1 I remember will be well worth the guy's asking price even if it needs some minor work. They are rare. Even rarer is the big matching receiver from the company of the same period. There was one locally that had been completely rebuilt by a Braun factory service rep who also had the reel to reel and turntable and he was asking $2900 just for the receiver.

It does make all our vintage gear worth more. :D
True, but that door swings both ways. I have a number of vintage pieces that I've been debating placing up for auction since January. I've "watched" auctions for similar/identical items during that time frame and have noted that the Final Value market price has dropped 15%-25% on a number of them, compared to last year. I view it akin to the housing market - a good time for buyers, a bad time for sellers. Like jhal mentioned, a lot of previously available disposable income is going into higher costs at the gas pump and checkout line at the grocery store.

The other mitigating factor on eBay is the brutal cost of shipping, which adds 15%-40% (depending on weight, size, and distance) to the total cost of acquiring an item. Priority Mail and First Class rates go up again on May 14th. So, I'm torn between dealing with the local loonies on Craig's List or running Reserve auctions on eBay so that I don't lose my tail.

It's not cash-in-hand, but I sometimes wonder if I wouldn't be better off taking items over to Goodwilll or SA and taking the equivalent market (eBay) value off my taxes next year... :scratch2:

laffing..i dont get you guys, Ebay is fun, grandmothers are selling their old doilies on Ebay and having a ball. to think that people aren't going to refer to ebay for valuation is naive and to get mad when they do is absurd. If you dont like the price dont buy, people cant sell something unless someone is willing to buy it is a self correcting market, something sells for 10 bucks one day and 2 bucks the next, so what.. get a grip, set your price buying or selling and most of all have fun.

I won't get into the guy that called me today. Returning a call from almost two weeks ago about some albums he had listed on CL. Dance and Techno...

He said he wants $5 per album.. high pressure sales, can you come in the next hour, I have two other people coming. How about tomorrow.. blah blah blah..

I said I don't pay that much for a lot.. he said they sell for more on ebay.. I told him then quit bothering me, and put them up.. He asked again if I had his number.. told him yep, it's in my phone now, but call me back when you get tired of sitting on them for that price :D

Ebay has created a stable marketplace for second hand sales, it makes sense that it has become the defacto standard for valuation.

dew.


I agree. Other source of info is audiogon blue book where prices are based on their sales experience.

My rant was not that eBay is GOOD or BAD, but that people's dependence on it as the absolute arbiter of pricing is misplaced- and misleading. To those who always say "Let the market decide", please contact me when gas hits $5 a gallon, and bread $5 a loaf (soon). It is the artificial and unnecessary inflated price manipulation I bemoan- based on the dominance of only one outlet (whether Exxon or eBay). Amateurs or experts- greed makes no distinction.
No, there's nothing wrong with eBay- as a reference. But as the ABSOLUTE arbiter of consumer goods pricing, I think it's a shame. A market is not a market without competition, and except for CL (and even CL uses eBay pricing), there really isn't any. :tresbon:

With all due respect, you can bemoan eBay as the "defacto standard", but it is what it is.

It's a global marketplace that brings together buyers and sellers. Everybody can see what's being sold, and everybody can choose to pay what they are willing to pay.

The only point of confusion/stupidity is when somebody says: "I saw it on eBay for that.". Well, if you didn't see it "Sell on eBay for that...", then you are mistaken as to the value.

You can think it's worth more, or you can think it's worth less, but if several of "them" have sold on eBay for $xxx, then that's what they're worth.

And you can take that to the bank.

With all due respect, you can bemoan eBay as the "defacto standard", but it is what it is.

It's a global marketplace that brings together buyers and sellers. Everybody can see what's being sold, and everybody can choose to pay what they are willing to pay.

The only point of confusion/stupidity is when somebody says: "I saw it on eBay for that.". Well, if you didn't see it "Sell on eBay for that...", then you are mistaken as to the value.

You can think it's worth more, or you can think it's worth less, but if several of "them" have sold on eBay for $xxx, then that's what they're worth.

And you can take that to the bank.

I pretty much agree with all said here, but would like to expand on the phrase "global marketplace". eBay allows for INTERNATIONAL exposure of goods for shipping to interested parties; CL is a bit watered down there. Folks expecting full eBay prices at their garage sale are deluding themselves in the hopes that they will have an interested party willing to pay top dollar stumble fortuitously into their piles of crossword puzzles and Happy Meal toys. eBay prices are fine on eBay, but usually unrealistic at thrifts and garage sales.

But the OPs seller is probably pretty straight up as he's discounted his stuff to a quarter of its' perceived eBay value, and that seems not out of line to me. I wish him well.

My rant was not that eBay is GOOD or BAD, but that people's dependence on it as the absolute arbiter of pricing is misplaced- and misleading. To those who always say "Let the market decide", please contact me when gas hits $5 a gallon, and bread $5 a loaf (soon). It is the artificial and unnecessary inflated price manipulation I bemoan- based on the dominance of only one outlet (whether Exxon or eBay). Amateurs or experts- greed makes no distinction.
No, there's nothing wrong with eBay- as a reference. But as the ABSOLUTE arbiter of consumer goods pricing, I think it's a shame. A market is not a market without competition, and except for CL (and even CL uses eBay pricing), there really isn't any. :tresbon:

There's nothing 'artificial' about it. REAL people pay real money for real products. Sounds like the very essence of its value based on what the market will allow. Furthermore, people bidding on items they want is the ultimate in competition as well.

And yes, the market will decide. Because when gas hits $5 a gallon consumers will balk and finally change their lifestyles, or find other ways to cope. Nobody forces you to buy gas. On the flip side, the oil industry risks losing the petroleum market altogether if prices continue to rise at such an high rate. The market has give and take -- ask too much and the customer will go somewhere else, ask too little and you can't make money. As a consumer you have the choose to buy something from somebody, if their price is too high, they risk not selling it. Its their right, and risk, to ask whatever price they would like for it.

Just because you can not longer rip someone off because of their ignorance does not mean its unfair and artificial.

dew.

The one thing I think a lot of use forget is an auction caters to who wants it the Most.If an obsesive collecter wants it the price will be inflated.Have seen things go for more used than they could have payed brand new.I use E*ay as a guide only.

What remains to be seen is the fact that a lot of the people that say "it sells for $500 on Ebay" are looking at an item LISTED for that price, that in fact never does sell.... and using THAT as their guide, not completed listings.

It seems that in my area this is what happens more often than not.

And my reply to them is as always --- Then go sell it on Ebay!

Like it or not, the only way you can buy or sell a lot of this stuff is through eBay. Say you want an antenna bracket for an old receiver, start combing through the want adds and yard sales and see what kind of luck you have. Say you want to sell an antenna bracket for an old receiver, put it in your yard sale and see what kind of luck you have.

I just wished the noobs, and collectors would quit looking and bidding on the things I want to buy.. they sure are inflating the price WAY out of line on some things...

Does that make an item worth what those people are willing to pay, or stupidly big JUST so they could have the thrill of winning?

In my eyes.. not as a whole.. it only makes that item worth that much to those people, on e-bay... the cost in the "real" world is completely different... Don't believe me.. put your stuff out in a yard sale at e-bay sell prices... you'll be lucky if you sell much of anything..

OK, folks. Had my rant and now I'll move on. To rephrase (or more properly, mangle) an expression by Oscar Wilde: "Just because it has a price doesn't mean it has value". Thank you all...

I just wished the noobs, and collectors would quit looking and bidding on the things I want to buy.. they sure are inflating the price WAY out of line on some things...

Does that make an item worth what those people are willing to pay, or stupidly big JUST so they could have the thrill of winning?

In my eyes.. not as a whole.. it only makes that item worth that much to those people, on e-bay... the cost in the "real" world is completely different... Don't believe me.. put your stuff out in a yard sale at e-bay sell prices... you'll be lucky if you sell much of anything..


Good point, similost. I find that there is a divergence between craigslist and ebay. Generally, sellers on the 'list start out lower. But there are certainly bargains on the 'bay. Casual buying exposes me to higher prices. When I start hunting daily, that's when I find good buys. I have to work at it. That can take a long time when I want something specific and the item is rare. But I use both ebay's completed transaction survey and the audiogon blue book to tell me what other people paid for the item. Then I negotiate. Often, the seller is uninterested in my thoughts. He wants his price or hit the highway. But I have been successful in reducing "buy it now" prices and have had responsive buyers at times. Your point is a good one. The market is more than the ebay experience. I urge anyone to try craigslist for lower prices. :thmbsp:

I've gotten some real steals off CL... our latest one was a beautiful antique (1930's) dinning room set.... and the lady even threw in a beautiful, and expensive framed wall mirror after my wife talked her down off her asking price.. the mirror was worth a lot more than the $50 she backed down.. we got one hell of a deal on this set.. I could probably sell it now and triple our money..

In my judgment, it's mistaken to place CL and Ebay in the same discussion. CL is nothing more than an on-line listing of classified ads with primarily, but not excusively, a local focus. Ebay is an international auction site wherein market forces prevail. The selling price is determined by willing seller/willing buyer. Are there some transactions on Ebay that are just plain dumb? Of course, just as there are in the 'real world.' In another thread I lamented the Ebay sale of a turntable that generally sells for $20 to $30 plus shipping that went for over $130 plus shipping. Things like this happen in the real world marketplace as well.

How else does one evaluate the cost of an item, other than to compare it against other items that have already sold? First place I check when I see something that I don't know much about is ePrey, for several reasons; often there will be better pictures, a bit of additional info about the item, and you get to know what the item is worth on a good day in a global market. As a buyer I find it an invaluable resource, so I can't complain much when sellers use it to help them. In a smaller market, that price is usually invalid, and must be adjusted down, but it'll give you an idea as to what the top end is, at least.

The market really will decide -- a person can list an item at top ePrey price, but as it is a global best-case price, their item will probably not sell until it settles down to what the local market and demand will bear.

In my judgment, it's mistaken to place CL and Ebay in the same discussion. CL is nothing more than an on-line listing of classified ads with primarily, but not excusively, a local focus. Ebay is an international auction site wherein market forces prevail. The selling price is determined by willing seller/willing buyer. Are there some transactions on Ebay that are just plain dumb? Of course, just as there are in the 'real world.' In another thread I lamented the Ebay sale of a turntable that generally sells for $20 to $30 plus shipping that went for over $130 plus shipping. Things like this happen in the real world marketplace as well.


I interpret the statement, "it's mistaken to place CL and Ebay in the same discussion" in this way: the 'list and the 'bay are different markets, and while you can buy the same thing in both places, it's not likely that either the experience or the price would be the same. On the other hand, any discussion of used audio equipment demonstrates a higher level of knowledge about the "market" when both places are discussed. In reality the "market" is both places and many more. To the extent that a buyer or seller is aware of how broad the market is, that buyer or seller is likely to get what they want sooner and at a more satisfactory price. :thmbsp:

We can complain about inflated eBay prices or people trying to sell stuff on CL at eBay prices... But let's face it: we can't do anything about it.
Still there are some gems out there for us to get...

A couple of thrift stores here tried it for a bit. They quit when everyone quit buying stuff. Thing is, with e bay, you can see a history of experiences other buyers have had with the seller. He may (or may not) offer a lot of history and documentation with the item. A thrift store udoubtedly does not.

An item from a good seller who can say "I've used this item for several weeks and it is working perfectly. I replaced any bad lamps and cleaned the pots and switches" etc. is one thing. A thirft store is kind of "good luck!".

I sell speakers on CL and typically use e bay as a guilde, but offer some discount on e bay prices. If you want e bay prices, sell it on e bay. If you don't want to pay the fees and deal with shipping, cut a few bucks off the price.

But as has been said, folks can ask whatever they want.

I just HATE stupid ebay bidders.. like right now.. watching some amps I want to bid on... and I'll be damed if people aren't jumping in hours before the end of it and bidding them up to where I think it's going to be stupid prices.. I hate noob bidders... they make stuff too expensive.. they get all caught up in the auction, and throw all common sense out the window JUST SO THEY CAN WIN... eeerrrrr....

Point taken, macfreak; I probably should have chosen a word other than 'mistaken.' And, for that matter, in reality both venues play a prominent role in setting market price. The informed buyer (and seller) does get a better sense of the market by investigating both. I stand refocused.

I just HATE stupid ebay bidders.. like right now.. watching some amps I want to bid on... and I'll be damed if people aren't jumping in hours before the end of it and bidding them up to where I think it's going to be stupid prices.. I hate noob bidders... they make stuff too expensive.. they get all caught up in the auction, and throw all common sense out the window JUST SO THEY CAN WIN... eeerrrrr....


Sorry to hear this. I know you wanted those. I tell you ebay has gotten crazy in the last few months if you are looking for anything that has known value.

With all due respect, you can bemoan eBay as the "defacto standard", but it is what it is.

It's a global marketplace that brings together buyers and sellers. Everybody can see what's being sold, and everybody can choose to pay what they are willing to pay.

The only point of confusion/stupidity is when somebody says: "I saw it on eBay for that.". Well, if you didn't see it "Sell on eBay for that...", then you are mistaken as to the value.

You can think it's worth more, or you can think it's worth less, but if several of "them" have sold on eBay for $xxx, then that's what they're worth.

And you can take that to the bank.

:yes:

I love stupid Ebay bidders. They inflate the prices so high that i almost always get more than what i paid for my items. :thmbsp:

Yeah.. well... I don't have anything I want to, or can put on e-bay.. like too big for shipping...

With that said.. and talking about value.. what I've been watching waiting to snipe at the end, just went up to a crazy price with 6 hours still left... more than they are really worth... I'm sure it's probably some guy from asia some where.. seems to be they can afford anything any more, and we can't...

I have posted a couple of times already here and have generally stated that prices are higher on ebay than on c-list. That has been my experience. But just to show how wrong I can be, at least in a specific instance, please look at the post on the first page of Dollars and Sense (this forum), entitled "Sansui tu-919 listed as tu-719." Pull up the two links to ebay auctions found in the posts. Notice how much lower the tuners sold for compared to the price range of $500 to $700, up to $1,100 in exceptional cases, listed for the 919 on FMtunerinfo.com. Audiogon Blue Book has info on prices that is 3 years old, but still higher than for what the two 919's recently sold for on ebay.

So, even ebay can give up extraordiarily low prices on premium audio equipment. The market is predictable over large numbers of transactions, but there are fascinating, wonderful exceptions that can bring delight to the active buyer.

Interesting, forget the politics, the Braun reel to reel if it is the 1 I remember will be well worth the guy's asking price even if it needs some minor work. They are rare. Even rarer is the big matching receiver from the company of the same period. There was one locally that had been completely rebuilt by a Braun factory service rep who also had the reel to reel and turntable and he was asking $2900 just for the receiver.

AFAIK, Braun only made one RTR.

The TG1000 is easily worth the $100 he is asking for the pile.

By any chance was it Falcon Audio that you were referring to?

First ebay is the 1000 lb. gorilla of auctions so of course they set fees in a monopolistic fashion. But you get the highest prices (usually, no guarantees but death and taxes) because of highest viewing per piece. Craigslist can compete easily on a local level esp. with heavier items but again much less views per interested viewer so prices are lower, again usually. That said ebay is suing craigslist in an obvious attempt (to me) to force them to charge fees. They own 30/35% from one founder who they convinced to sell out. So they are claiming the majority owners are hurting their investment. Can you say microsoft? There are newer online auctions starting up if ya wanna fight the gorilla er man.

Yes, it was Falcon. Real interesting guy who did very good work, loved vintage but, you had to be prepared to wait for the finished unit. He did my Sherwood tube pair, the first he'd ever seen and thought they were amongst the best engineered and built US stuff he'd ever seen. Pretty good since at the time he had both US period Marantz and McIntosh units sitting in the shop.