Should I Buy a Phono Preamp?

[Teknopath]

I have a Rega P3 with a Denon DL160. I am currently using the phono stage in my Denon 3808 AVR. I need to crank it a bit to get a decent level of volume but the sound is very good so far.

Just wondering what others opinions are on getting a separate preamp such as the Parasound Zphono, NAD PP-2, or Cambridge 640P. Will I notice an improvement? Any thoughts on the 3 I mentioned?

Thanks!

[Art K.]

Another very good phono stage is the Rega Fono Mini...it's the same one I have in my Rega Mira 3 integrated and my P5 really sings with it. I should be a significant improvement over the one in your receiver. Will you be using it in a separate 2 channel system?

[Teknopath]

Another very good phono stage is the Rega Fono Mini...it's the same one I have in my Rega Mira 3 integrated and my P5 really sings with it. I should be a significant improvement over the one in your receiver. Will you be using it in a separate 2 channel system?

The Fono mini is MM only right? The DL160 is a HO MC cart.

HT and 2 ch are the same system for me at the moment. I switch between Direct and Pure Direct on the 3808 depending on whether I want to use my subs. Onix Rocket 850s/200/250s and 2 MFW-15s. :banana:

[whoaru99]

...MFW-15s. :banana:

A bit OT, but what's your opinion of the MFW-15s?

What, if any, did you have prior to these?

[Teknopath]

A bit OT, but what's your opinion of the MFW-15s?

What, if any, did you have prior to these?

I am waiting on my MFW-15s since Sept/Oct. 07. :D

I have had the opportunity to listen to them and I was blown away. The bass is tight, accurate, and chest pressurizing. (Is that a word?) The gunshots from Open Range literally had me feeling as if my chest would cave in. And the bass was never sloppy.

I previously owned an x-sub and have experienced a Scamp-10 and a lower end Hsu (don't remember which one). The finish on the MFW-15 can't be beat. I have a Rosewood and a Palisander Rosa coming.

[whoaru99]

I haven't heard any of those, but the MFWs are supposed to be pretty kick-ass...

Congrats!!

[BrocLuno]

There may also be step-up transformers to get the voltage high enough to make the signal acceptable at normal listening volumes without having to crank the receiver. In fact, I think Denon makes set-up xformers. They will not tailor the signal, so if you're looking for additional eq or something, you'll need a active piece.

[Mr. Lin]

I always recommend using a dedicated phono preamp, I just don't believe in using the phono input on receivers, no matter how good a particular receiver supposedly is.

[BrocLuno]

Well, maybe? But, there are some excellent receivers out there from the hay-days of the "stereo wars" that have killer phono sections. The Pioneer SX1250 and my Mitsubishi come to mind. The Pioneer has variable capacitive loading for either MM or MC, etc. There are some Yamaha's like the R1000 and R2000 that do too and they have killer phono sections.

Then there are the MacIntosh's, Carlson's, and early tube Scotts that run very sweet if all up to spec. I would not write off all receivers, just the biggest lot of them :)

[erniejade]

I am running a DL160 with a adcom 565 preamp. My Pro-Ject tube box SE II just came in tonight. So far I have listed to two records and it is night and day! Bass is even tighter then before, everything is more pronounced and just sounds wonderfull!! I got mine from the needle doctor because they offer a 30 day $ back no questions asked. I can tell you right now, they will NOT be getting this unit back!!!

[blownsi]

I am running a DL160 with a adcom 565 preamp. My Pro-Ject tube box SE II just came in tonight. So far I have listed to two records and it is night and day! Bass is even tighter then before, everything is more pronounced and just sounds wonderfull!! I got mine from the needle doctor because they offer a 30 day $ back no questions asked. I can tell you right now, they will NOT be getting this unit back!!!

Is yours a 565 or 565II???

[Art K.]

The Fono mini is MM only right? The DL160 is a HO MC cart.

HT and 2 ch are the same system for me at the moment. I switch between Direct and Pure Direct on the 3808 depending on whether I want to use my subs. Onix Rocket 850s/200/250s and 2 MFW-15s. :banana:

HO MC works in a MM phono stage...that's usually why folks go for the HO MC. I'm using a Dynavector 10x5 with mine.

[erniejade]

It is the GFP-565 preamp. Mine does not say II on it.

[Strawman]

I recently added a Hagerman Bugle to my 565. I hear a difference.

[Teknopath]

I am running a DL160 with a adcom 565 preamp. My Pro-Ject tube box SE II just came in tonight. So far I have listed to two records and it is night and day! Bass is even tighter then before, everything is more pronounced and just sounds wonderfull!! I got mine from the needle doctor because they offer a 30 day $ back no questions asked. I can tell you right now, they will NOT be getting this unit back!!!

I considered the Tube Box but heard it had some hum issues. I have never been exposed to the tube sound so I thought the tube Box might be a good intro.

[Teknopath]

HO MC works in a MM phono stage...that's usually why folks go for the HO MC. I'm using a Dynavector 10x5 with mine.

Yeah, the phono stage in the 3808 is MM only so I'm aware. I thought there might be a difference when it came to preamps. thanks for the info. I'll take a look at it.

[Mr. Lin]

Well, maybe? But, there are some excellent receivers out there from the hay-days of the "stereo wars" that have killer phono sections. The Pioneer SX1250 and my Mitsubishi come to mind. The Pioneer has variable capacitive loading for either MM or MC, etc. There are some Yamaha's like the R1000 and R2000 that do too and they have killer phono sections.

Then there are the MacIntosh's, Carlson's, and early tube Scotts that run very sweet if all up to spec. I would not write off all receivers, just the biggest lot of them :)

Here I yield to the man with infinitely more knowledge of vintage receivers than I.

[whell]

The Denon, if I recall correctly, has an output of about 2.5mv. A typical moving magnet phono cartridge will have an output upwards of 5.0 mv, sometimes even more.

The output of a cartridge has no bearing on its quality. However, your phono stage in your receiver is likely set up to match better with a cartridge with an output of 4.5 - 5mv. Not a big deal, really. As you've observed, cranking up the volume on the receiver still gets the job done.

The point is, this is NORMAL behavior for the Denon cartridge when played on a typical moving magnet section of a receiver.

A dedicated phono stage is not likely to address this unless you can set the gain for moving magnet cartridges as well. Will it sound "better" with a dedicated phono stage? There are no guarantees, so try to audition a phono stage before you but it, so you'll be sure you like the results.

[iLUVanalog]

You can also go the quick and easy route and find yourself a set of the Sony HA-T10 Mini Step-up Transformers. They are passive devices that are connected between the phono leads of your turntable and the phono input terminals of your receiver to boost the output of your moving coil cartridge.

Here is a link that will show you what they look like (very similar to the Ortofon T-5):....

http://www.recollectionsrecord.com/product1.asp?id=199

I also own the NAD PP-2 as well as the Parasound Z-Phono and they are both excellent!

Steve