VCR for audio recording

[d-ray657]

I saw mentioned on a thread here about using a VCR for audio recording. It seemed to make sense, because there is a wider tape to work with, and because of the time available for recording.

Yesterday I saw a Mitsubishi model U57 "Stereo videocasette recorder." It looked substantial and had some heft. Does anyone have any information on the recording capabilities of this model, or of the reputation if the Mitsubishi line in particular? Also, does anyone recommend a particular type of tape for audio recording? Thanks in advance for any shared wisdom.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Koptapad]

I've used a VCR years ago for home recording. Make sure it is a Hi-Fi VCR; this is very important. Use a 2 hour tape and record at SP only. I would recommend a Sony Hi-Fi VCR.

[70salesguy]

To the best of my knowledge, "Stereo" VCRs had 2 audio tracks laid down next to the video track via a separate fixed head simular to an audio tape recorder, and sounded so-so.

"Hi-Fi" VCRs had the audio tracks laid down with the rotating head and did provide excellent fidelity!

Many lightyears ago I bought a new VCR from Sears. They had a "Stereo" unit in stock, but would have to order the "Hi-Fi" unit. The salesman told me that if I wasn't happy with the "Stereo" unit, I could return it and he would order the "Hi-Fi" unit.

I tried recording audio on the "Stereo" unit and was sorely disappointed. I returned it and later received the "Hi-Fi" unit. The performance was excellent!

Be sure that you use a "Hi-Fi" unit. The Sears model I had was made by Hitachi.

It is my understanding that the excellent audio performance is due to the scanning technique that the rotating head uses.

[d-ray657]

I've used a VCR years ago for home recording. Make sure it is a Hi-Fi VCR; this is very important. Use a 2 hour tape and record at SP only. I would recommend a Sony Hi-Fi VCR.

Dang! I passed on the Sony and got the Mitsu, just judging on the basis of weight - probably not the best critereon. Oh well. It was only 7 bucks. Maybe they still have the Sony.

Regards,

D-Ray

[targeteye]

The Hi-Fi VCR's use FM modulation to record the information on to the tape instead of the straight audio signal and thus eleminate the characteristics of the Tape itself from affecting the signal quality in exactly the same way that FM radio eliminates interference. The format also gives capability of Dynamic range that approaches CDs.

With this technology the potential is there for a very nice recording unit. As with anything else I would expect some VCR to be better than other in this regards.

With VCRs being a obsolete technology now it should be a very inexpensive way to Archive audio in an analog format.

Steve

[Len44]

Trust me -- your Mitsu U57 will be excellent. It was one of their very best(I stll have and it sees occasional use)...

[KentTeffeteller]

Hi,

These machines can sound very good. However, one caveat. With this recording method, tapes don't interchange well from deck to deck. Tracking was generally a weak point on VHS machines. If you can find a Sony PCM-F1 PCM adapter, you can record digital audio on a VCR of high quality.

[Lady Ayeka]

Trust me -- your Mitsu U57 will be excellent. It was one of their very best(I stll have and it sees occasional use)...

indeed! mitsu VCRs are the best!! this one being my personal dream boat...

MITSUBISHI HS-U70 (1988)

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/HS-U70409.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/HS-U7030-1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/HS-U7031-1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/HS-U7032-1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/HS-U7029.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/HS-U7028-1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/HS-U7027-1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/HS-U704010.jpg

[Aage]

As several have pointed out, as long as you get a VHS Hifi deck, the recording quality is superb.

This is because it uses the same method for laying down the track that is used for the video portion of every VCR: Vertical Helical Scan.

Instead of laying down the track in a linear fashion like a cassette or RTR does, it records using the rotating video heads, alongside the video track with the drum that rotates at an angle with respect to the tape. That head turns at a very high speed, and thefore, is something like a RTR at (let's say) 30 inches per second. Now, I can't recall the actual speed, so my 30 ips is just a guess.

As you can imagine, this results in no appreciable wow and flutter, fantastic headroom, and ruler-flat frequency response.

The only drawbacks I have noticed are:

1) Assembly editing is very tough to make seamless on many decks, due to the fact that during recording, the pause on VCRs often have a circuit that rewinds slightly to get rid of the glitch that would be there in the picture if they didn't.

2) Almost all VCRs use automatic record level. On some decks the recordings can seem too "levelled out" in terms of the volume, due to this "feature". It's particularly noticeable on classical music.

But if you just want to record hours of something like say, a radio broadcast, or background music for an evening, well go ahead and enjoy it. As another poster pointed out though, decks aren't always perfectly compatible with recordings made on other VCRs

[scootchu]

The old Betamax decks were built like tanks and most had user level control where a lot of VHS Hi-Fi machines had auto level control. You also use PCM adapters for recording.

I will also throw this out there, use good tape because the last thing you want is dropouts in your recording.

[Lady Ayeka]

2) Almost all VCRs use automatic record level. On some decks the recordings can seem too "levelled out" in terms of the volume, due to this "feature". It's particularly noticeable on classical music.

not true! the best classic VCRs of the '80s all had audio rec. level controls. including, of course, that U70 up there.

[tcdriver]

2) Almost all VCRs use automatic record level. On some decks the recordings can seem too "levelled out" in terms of the volume, due to this "feature". It's particularly noticeable on classical music.
This is a very good point. You can pretty much be sure that the VHS HI-FI deck that does not have level controls and VU meters (or other input level display) will have automatic volume control.

[Arkay]

The good "HiFi" VHS players are excellent recorders.

As others have already pointed out but which cannot be over-emphasized, it MUST be a "Hi Fi" model - not just stereo, or "high quality sound" or some other marketspeak term.

I was looking at a very good one last week (which I didn't get, because I already have an excellent one), and the dealer selling it told me that the prices on them have fallen by about half, in just the past year. It seems that since VCRs in general have almost completely disappeared from consumer consciousness, even these gems can be found for very cheap prices. Probably one of the best bargains out there, in terms of sound-quality-per-buck.

The biggest obstacle may be finding really high-quality TAPES to use in them. "Professional" grade is best.

That said, there are bargains out there in pre-recorded tapes, too, if you can put up with tape quality. I paid fifty cents TOTAL for the first two seasons of "The Sopranos" TV series (twelve tapes) recently from a used book shop, and the guy later threw in four "Battlestar Galactica" movie tapes free-of-charge, because he said I was the only customer he knew of who even still had a working VCR at home. The fifty cents was donated to charity as a matter of store policy. I think they do that to encourage people to take away the remaining stock. For the most part, he said they can't even give tapes away, and won't take any more unless they have to.

On a good player (I have a JVC X-1 Limited, which has to be one of the best consumer VCRs ever made --really more of a broadcast studio deck in disguise, and using VHS instead of Betamax), tape isn't bad at all, but it still doesn't have quite the picture quality of a good LD or DVD. SOUND quality can be excellent, though, and there are a few things out there on VHS tapes that are seldom or never seen on other media.

[Garrard201]

I have a Mitsu HS-U500 from 1995 and love it. The U57 looks like it is just a little older.

[himm37]

Everything has pretty much been covered. I had a Mitsubishi TOTL deck YEARS ago. I used to record "The Deadhead Hour" with it. On the slower mode I could get 6 shows on it. Much better then my AKAI R-R. Being recorded from FM, sounded as good as the broadcast! When I listened to them, I'd record the music only onto cassettes for my car.

Now I have a 24 Hour Dead station on Sirius, it's not as much fun though!

[stuwee]

Just picked up a 4-head Hi-fi deck last weekend, weigh's about 1 1/2 lb's though, I got it to try this very thing, $10 CL, Panasonic PV-7450 Omnivision(whatever that means?)

Craig

[EchoWars]

The general fidelity of Hi-Fi decks is quite good for movie soundtracks, but lacking for dedicated audio use. Head-switching noise is clearly audible on low-level passages on every Hi-Fi deck I've ever heard.

[Aage]

Quote from the web: "Worked it out once and it is around seven meters per second. Whatever it is, it's a whole bunch faster than 7 1/2 inches per second. If anyone really wants to know the writing speed, it is the circumference of the upper cylinder (or video head) multiplied by the rotational speed which is 30 revolutions per second, or 1800 revolutions per minute. (Two heads 180 degrees apart at thirty rps results in 60 frames per second.)"

The general fidelity of Hi-Fi decks is quite good for movie soundtracks, but lacking for dedicated audio use. Head-switching noise is clearly audible on low-level passages on every Hi-Fi deck I've ever heard.

1800 RPM, and you can hear heads switching. Wow Tentoze, my hat is off to those ears of yours!

[terra1]

Dang! I passed on the Sony and got the Mitsu, just judging on the basis of weight - probably not the best critereon. Oh well. It was only 7 bucks. Maybe they still have the Sony.

Regards,

D-Ray

Mitsubishi made premium HiFi decks often sold in audio stores rather than department stores. I bought the U-59 after careful examination of specs and available VCRs. I bought especially for Hi-Fi and editing capabilities. I edited the occasional wedding, softball game or 2. It is still going.

My JVC, Sony, Panasonics have long since died or developed problems. (They were great when they were working. My point is there is no need for remorse for choosing a Mitsu.)

Keep in mind this was the time of movies and music videos on Hi-Fi VHS. No DVDs. So playback and recording were important selling points. Not like today where VCRs are cheaply made just to fill a market niche until there is no more demand.

[markdf]

I have a Sony HiFi VCR that I use to record from TV- Music Choice and Urge. I record two hours at a time at random times, from the various oldies and classic rock channels. I play it back through audio cables connected to my PC. I've burned many songs to CD this way, but only songs I can't get elsewhere. You can also record things like the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame induction, etc and copy it onto DVD. markdf

[EchoWars]

Quote from the web: "Worked it out once and it is around seven meters per second. Whatever it is, it's a whole bunch faster than 7 1/2 inches per second. If anyone really wants to know the writing speed, it is the circumference of the upper cylinder (or video head) multiplied by the rotational speed which is 30 revolutions per second, or 1800 revolutions per minute. (Two heads 180 degrees apart at thirty rps results in 60 frames per second.)" 1800 RPM, and you can hear heads switching.As Hi-Fi machines themselves prove, writing speed ain't everything. And 1800 RPM is not exactly fast. Wow Tentoze, my hat is off to those ears of yours!Wrong dude, but record the proper passage, and you'd have to be deaf not to hear it. One recording in particular will show how bad Hi-Fi VCR's are for dedicated audio work...the opening minute or two of Dire Straits 'Ride Across the River'. Low-level high frequencies, vocals, and percussive sounds against a quiet background are a knife to the heart for dedicated VCR audio (to be fair, the DBX-style noise reduction (http://www.anstendig.org/VCRNoise.html) used on Hi-Fi decks may contribute to the problem).

Watch eBay for a PCM adapter for a VCR (something like the Sony PCM-F1). That's the right way to get it done if you truly want hours of Hi-Fi music out of a VCR. Then again, if you're not going to sit there and critique the sound quality, the standard FM audio from the Hi-Fi decks might be good enough for you. It does work great for background music at a party.

[theophile]

I've got a Mitsubishi HS M55.
I kind of agree with EchoWars.I've tried recording with it over the years,and I find the results to be disappointing.
Sufficiently so,that I don't bother using it in that way anymore.

[terra1]

Interesting comments about VCR audio fidelity.

I had thought about VCR for audio and longer playing times, but I always thought existing audio options were just as good if not better. Now I'm glad I stuck with conventional audio cassettes. Although I had thought about getting a reel to reel.

I had a single cassette deck I recorded with but I bought an Onkyo dual cassette deck with auto relay specifically for longer playing times. And audio cassettes could be played in car, boomboxes, car.

And today I have a standalone CD recorder I use for recording LPs and several CD changers. So longer playing times is not a concern today either.