If AKfest09 was moved...

[Army]

To the Midwest would you be more likely to attend?

We're looking at the possibility of moving the Fest to Cedar Rapids Iowa which is centrally located to our brothers in the Great White North as well as our friends in the South, East and West.

There is nothing saying it will happen, but we'd like to know for example if more people would attend by putting it in the middle so to speak.

[roggom]

I would Love if it was in Denver, but Wichita or KC MO are right in the middle of the country.

[onwardjames]

With the gas going sky high?? Certainly would help my cause.... I think... I better check a map!:scratch2:

[sauuuuuce]

I plan on attending next year regardless of the location. Why don't we do Hawaii?:D

[spartanmanor]

As long as there is a major airport near by.

[Celt]

It'd be a straight drive up I55 for me.

[whoaru99]

I like the Iowa idea, but I'm a little biased being in Minnesota.

FYI...FWIW

The geographical center of the lower 48 states lies outside of Lebanon, Kansas.

The geographical center of all 50 states is located 17 miles west of Castle Rock, South Dakota.

The geodetic center of the U.S. is found approximately 42 miles south of Lebanon, Kansas. (Note: A geodetic survey makes corrections to account for the curvature of the Earth.)

[MAXZ28]

I'm certain that Dennydog and I would make the trek from MN. :yes:

[Army]

I like the Iowa idea, but I'm a little biased being in Minnesota.

FYI...FWIW

The geographical center of the lower 48 states lies outside of Lebanon, Kansas.

The geographical center of all 50 states is located 17 miles west of Castle Rock, South Dakota.

The geodetic center of the U.S. is found approximately 42 miles south of Lebanon, Kansas. (Note: A geodetic survey makes corrections to account for the curvature of the Earth.)



Ah yes...but you must take into consideration our Canadian brothers and sisters.

[jcmjrt]

Two connections and more expensive to fly...so no.

[modge]

As long as there is a major airport near by.

Seconded :yes:

[iphasic]

i was hoping to drive out next year from boston. so it depends on gas prices at that point. i have always heard that cedar rapids is a cool town, though. so it's still a definite maybe.

[avguytx]

I vote Dallas. :D

[whoaru99]

Ah yes...but you must take into consideration our Canadian brothers and sisters.

Yes, my bad and apologies to our Northern pals.

Considering that, it would be Rugby, ND, sometimes referenced as the geographical center of North America.

[botrytis]

Michigan IS the midwest!!! I think it is fine where it is.

[Wigwam Jones]

Seconded :yes:

If we are talking about most people flying in - then we might want to discuss 'hubs'. That reduces the number of connections for many passengers, and thus can reduce price.

Major hubs in the center of the country:

Toronto Pearson International Airport (YYZ)
Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport (DFW)
Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD)
Lambert-Saint Louis International Airport (STL)
Houston George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH)
Cleveland Hopkins International Airport (CLE)
Salt Lake City International Airport (SLC)
Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky International Airport (CVG)
Denver International Airport (DEN)
Milwaukee General Mitchell International Airport (MKE)
Kansas City International Airport (MCI)
Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport (MSP)
Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport (DTW)
Memphis International Airport (MEM)

From Wikipedia:


For non-hub cities and low cost flights, Southwest Airlines (WN), a low-cost airline, mostly runs point-to-point service, but has hub-like operations in Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport (BWI), Chicago Midway Airport (MDW), Dallas Love Field Airport (DAL), Las Vegas's McCarran International Airport (LAS), Houston Hobby Airport (HOU), and Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport (PHX).


In terms of driving, Kansas City is close to the center of the country - but is it close to the center of the AK membership? In other words, the 'west' is more sparsely populated that the 'east' part of the country, California excepted. So there could be potentially more AK members who might attend AKFest on the eastern side of North America than on the western side.

One can also consider Amtrak - a great way to go in my opinion. www.amtrak.com will give maps of the major hubs for Amtrak.

We might also consider locality in the sense of what we might do other than attend listening rooms. I realize that in the past, we haven't, but what if we held AKFest in some major city that also had a current or historic audio equipment manufacturer, where we could arrange a tour? Just a thought...

[SPL db]

Put me down for a "yes"... most of the time it's the timing not the place.

Not saying that the date should be moved, just saying that somehow, something
always seems to come up where I can't go.

If it was a wee bit closer, that might be enough for me to make arrangements! :yes:

Scott

[ARguy]

Wouldn't have to deal with getting around Chicago so Iowa would work out for people on the West side of Lake Michigan...but those on the East side that's another story...

[similost]

It's a farther drive for me.. and I would like to load up and bring some equipment.. so yes, it would change my chances of coming to less of a chance..

Just tossing something out here... I've seen where they have events in a different part of the country every year, like one year on the east coast, the next on the west coast, the next down south... Why not look at doing something like that, so that every now and then, the majority would get a chance to make at least one fest over a couple years?

[grumpy]

It's a farther drive for me.. and I would like to load up and bring some equipment.. so yes, it would change my chances of coming to less of a chance..

Just tossing something out here... I've seen where they have events in a different part of the country every year, like one year on the east coast, the next on the west coast, the next down south... Why not look at doing something like that, so that every now and then, the majority would get a chance to make at least one fest over a couple years?

The other get togethers are informal member gatherings usually at ones home or club house. There has always only been one AK fest and its been held in Michigan.

The reason the fest has not changed locations in the past is its where I live. Just too dang hard to set one up not living near the venue. It would require me to travel weekly which is near impossible.

[Eric Clark]

If it isn't a major city I doubt I could justify the airfair. If you are going to move it out of Detroit anything west of Chicago would probably cut down in the attendance from the east coast. A small town like Cedar Rapids doesn't make sense to me.

What percentage of the current AK fest attendants live within 150 miles of Detroits

[Wigwam Jones]

I vote for Chagrin Falls, Ohio!

Failing that, somewhere between MI and NC, which is where just about ever buddy seems to live. Lucky me, a place to stay in both places! Whoo Hoo!

[similost]

I can understand what you are saying completely Gumpy.. Just wondering if maybe each year, a person in a different area takes the reigns and set it up, but then I also realize thise leaves more opprotunity for something falling through and a fest getting trashed.. It would take a hell of a burden off you though... unless you are doing it for sheer pleasure..

[Ms Grumpy]

I guess I am going to be a little biased on this one, but there is alot of work to consider when you do something like ARMY is suggesting.

Short form is that it would be like moving a small store to another state, and back. Can you imagine the shipping charges?

Everything that is used at the fest has to be:
stored somewhere....my house
shipped somewhere......my house
planned somewhere....my house
organized somewhere.....my house

Exhibitors and attendees need to know that AK has done everything that it can to make it an enjoyable show. This includes many phone calls while utilizing the computer (at my house), going to the hotel many many times to verify things are done.

I sincerely do not believe that moving the fest at this time is something that we should consider.

Just my opinion...

Nancy

[similost]

I'm all for a fest.. so where ever it is.. I'm going to try my damnedest to make the next one... I'm just happy The Grumpy's have been so good to have these...

[botrytis]

Grumpy and Mrs. Grumpy have done ALL the leg work on the past ones and it is too hard for Dave to get away with all his youngins' around.

It is best where it is for now.

[RichPA]

I've gotta say "no" - too far for me to drive in a day, and not easy to fly - two connections and very expensive, or a long drive on one end or the other. I do like Cedar Rapids (used to live there), but I've also got to wonder about getting vendors to come there.

[MAXZ28]

With as much work as a get-to-gether of that magnitude entails, I can appreciate why the kind folks who do the legwork and make it happen feel adamant about not changing the venue locale. It's their show, people.

That being said, I believe the next best thing is to continue to organize and strengthen the informal AK meets so the people who can't afford it or can't get away for the Fest at least have opportunities to meet some of the AK clan in close proximity to their own diggs.

It's probably in a thread already, but what have been the attendance numbers of AK members attending each year of the AK Fest so far? Are they growing? Are they sliding? Staying the same? Are they the same members? Just curious...

[botrytis]

Grumpy doesnt tell 1/1000th of what he does to get AK Fest off the ground. He is a dedicated person who thinks of nothing but AK.

If it were moved - someone else would have to do ALL of what he does for setting up the fest as well. It wouldn't be right, in my mind, to ask him to do all this work in another city.

Just my HONEST OPINION!!

[Aage]

We're looking at the possibility of moving the Fest to Cedar Rapids Iowa which is centrally located to our brothers in the Great White North as well as our friends in the South, East and West.

Sorry, I missed how it's better for Canadians.

As everybody in Canada knows, all the interesting Canadians are in Ontario, so Cedar Rapids is [U]further[U] for us.

::ducking and running::

[Army]

Grumpy doesnt tell 1/1000th of what he does to get AK Fest off the ground. He is a dedicated person who thinks of nothing but AK.

If it were moved - someone else would have to do ALL of what he does for setting up the fest as well. It wouldn't be right, in my mind, to ask him to do all this work in another city.

Just my HONEST OPINION!!


Sheesh Dave you don't have to shout... :)

This isn't set in stone nor did I offer any of this without discussing it with Grumpy first. And yes I would do my best to be the eyes and ears and do as much as possible to set this up and manage this end of it. I also have a lot of family that would be able to lend a hand before during and after the fest.
I have a very good idea of what the burden Grumpy and Mrs Grumpy go thru every year to put on a show like this. And that is why I offered to find a hotel big enough and nice enough and do some of the prefest leg work over the last couple of days. And the hotel I contacted has the dates we prefer. This thread is only to gauge interest...

[Andyman]

Well, I'm a "townie" as are at least 6 other folks that had Member rooms, so a move to Iowa might put a damper on some of those guys doing a room. I know I'd probably not attend if it were away, but that's just me.
Also, how would the vendors feel about Iowa??? Would Marantz and McIntosh be willing to go somewhere besides a large retail market such as Detroit. Also how many smaller vendors would it draw? My rough estimate is that at least half a dozen of the 2008 vendors too are native to SE MI and/or Detroit.
I think it would be a tough sell :yes:

[Wigwam Jones]

Chagrin Falls, dad nab it.

[Eric Clark]

Well, I'm a "townie" as are at least 6 other folks that had Member rooms, so a move to Iowa might put a damper on some of those guys doing a room. I know I'd probably not attend if it were away, but that's just me.

That is why I am interested to know how many locals go to the fest (AK members and non AK members) Cedar Rapids isn't only small but doesn't have many people within a 2 hours drive. I seem to remember a lot of people I met were from the Detroit area or a short drive away. A good Audio event could probably take place in any major city but look how long it has taken to make AK fest what it is today in Detroit.

[grumpy]

Its about a 60/40 split in town and out of town attendance.

[Billfort]

I drive to the Fest (about 5 hours from Toronto) with my family in a pretty full car as we make it a bit of a vacation.

Driving to Iowa would be out and a multi-connection, fairly expensive flight with rental car at the other end isn't too appealing for me on my own and definitely not do-able if I want to include my wife and daughter.

I wouldn't be going and I suspect many from Canada would be out.

[avionic]

That would be outstanding..Count me in.:yes:

[Tapehead47]

I'm sure Iowa would be a wonderful place to visit, but moving the fest from a large city to a small one leaves a lot of people stranded.

I haven't been to a fest yet due to bad timing. But Detroit is a huge hub and easy to get to from anywhere.

I'm thinking Cedar Rapids would have a diminishing effect.

When the question was posed I was thinking maybe it would be closer to Florida. Maybe Atlanta or Nashville. Or even Tampa (wish wish)!

So I need to withdraw my 'yes' vote.

If the original question was: "Would you attend the '09 AKFest if it were moved to Cedar Rapids?" my answer would be 'no'.

And to take all Grumpys Glory would be a shame. Unless he would like a break!

[Urizen]

It would make it drivable from here (8 hours compared to 11), but further for the Carolina Mafia, and our Coastal Atlantic friends.

Keep it in Detroit, in the same hotel, if possible. I thought it was a great location, despite it's lack of pizza joints.

[sauuuuuce]

In terms of driving, Kansas City is close to the center of the country - but is it close to the center of the AK membership? In other words, the 'west' is more sparsely populated that the 'east' part of the country, California excepted. So there could be potentially more AK members who might attend AKFest on the eastern side of North America than on the western side.


I think this is where Indiana came up with the slogan "Crossroads of America." I don't know if we are still using it. It seems we bridge the dense east with the sparce west from this point of view. The twin cities were an 8-10 hr drive for me and st louis was a little shorter I think. SO Iowa isn't a bad drive for me......But Michigan is closer.

Regardless.....I will be at the next AK fest unless we move it to North Korea or something....There's always Indianapolis!!!!:D

[jaymanaa]

Kc MO is in the middle, and if my "Minifest" is any indicator, attendance would be great. Iowa ain't to bad either, but Detroit was a haul for the midwest guys.:drool: (it was worth every mile though):yes:

[botrytis]

Sheesh Dave you don't have to shout... :)

This isn't set in stone nor did I offer any of this without discussing it with Grumpy first. And yes I would do my best to be the eyes and ears and do as much as possible to set this up and manage this end of it. I also have a lot of family that would be able to lend a hand before during and after the fest.
I have a very good idea of what the burden Grumpy and Mrs Grumpy go thru every year to put on a show like this. And that is why I offered to find a hotel big enough and nice enough and do some of the prefest leg work over the last couple of days. And the hotel I contacted has the dates we prefer. This thread is only to gauge interest...

Someone has to toot his horn - I know he wont - Grumpy is too modest!!

[Holst]

It all depends on if I can get the time off, I get 10 days of vacation per year and work six day weeks, so anywhere but here is equally hard.

Though Cedar Rapids would be a fine city to have it in.

[Wigwam Jones]

Kc MO is in the middle, and if my "Minifest" is any indicator, attendance would be great. Iowa ain't to bad either, but Detroit was a haul for the midwest guys.:drool: (it was worth every mile though):yes:

It's in the middle, all right. Middle of freaking nowhere.

[Wigwam Jones]

I think this is where Indiana came up with the slogan "Crossroads of America." I don't know if we are still using it. It seems we bridge the dense east with the sparce west from this point of view. The twin cities were an 8-10 hr drive for me and st louis was a little shorter I think. SO Iowa isn't a bad drive for me......But Michigan is closer.

Regardless.....I will be at the next AK fest unless we move it to North Korea or something....There's always Indianapolis!!!!:D

Kokomo...

[MAXZ28]

Well if you decide to ever consider changing the venue location to Minneapolis we could have my wife put together a deal at her hotel.

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1493

[Retro Stereo]

Well if you decide to ever consider changing the venue location to Minneapolis we could have my wife put together a deal at her hotel.

What do you mean, "her hotel" ?

Please clue us in on possible deals?

Better yet, would "her hotel" let us do the type of show that Grumpy does in Detroit?

Enquiring minds and all..... :D





Retro

[Fisherdude]

It's much appreciated that someone other than Dave is offering to shoulder the burden of putting on the next Fest.

It seems to me that the major issues/needs are, in order of importance:

1. It must be essentially in the same town as the person in charge. This job takes daily/weekly follow up.
2. It must be in a city with a major airport hub. If not, airfare will skyrocket.
3. It must be within driving distance of enough members who will provide equipment for and set up the members' listening rooms. No member is going to ship his equipment. If this isn't made a top priority, members' listening rooms will evaporate.

Those are the deal killers. Everything else is much less important. Manufacturers' reps are quite used to humping equipment around the country. As far as attendees are concerned, any move of the host city will be farther for some, closer for some...it'll be a wash.

For me personally, it doesn't matter a bit. I'll be there next year no matter where it is. For the majority of attendees, I think leaving it where it's at would be the absolute best choice.

[MAXZ28]

Her hotel - place of employment - [ she's the assistant GM ] has conventions all the time...sci fi conventions, craft conventions, small group events, etc. etc. The roomrates are dependant on the weekend, the number of rooms reserved, and any guest services negotiated. She said if we were to have booked this weekend, for example, [ which is historically quiet at this location ] roomrates would have been $99 or less if it were a very large group.

Anyway....it's not like AK Fest will end up in Minneapolis since it's the Grumpy's show but if the MN tri-state folks ever wanted to put something together locally in a more formal setting, it's feasible.

And for the record, there would be no financial benefit or gain on my wife's part for referring a group of any size to the property. Just offering some inside help if we ever needed to coordinate something locally.

[MarkAnderson]

That'd prolly be a deal breaker for me.

:no:

[Kuma]

I sincerely do not believe that moving the fest at this time is something that we should consider.
Nancy

Being from the Detroit area, I think it's fine where it is. And knowing the hard work the Grumpy family must put into this (and remember, they started the whole thing) - let's just leave it be for now.

[Retro Stereo]

Her hotel - place of employment - [ she's the assistant GM ] has conventions all the time...sci fi conventions, craft conventions, small group events, etc. etc. The roomrates are dependant on the weekend, the number of rooms reserved, and any guest services negotiated. She said if we were to have booked this weekend, for example, [ which is historically quiet at this location ] roomrates would have been $99 or less if it were a very large group.

Anyway....it's not like AK Fest will end up in Minneapolis since it's the Grumpy's show but if the MN tri-state folks ever wanted to put something together locally in a more formal setting, it's feasible.

And for the record, there would be no financial benefit or gain on my wife's part for referring a group of any size to the property. Just offering some inside help if we ever needed to coordinate something locally.

Well, to be honest, I believe the location in South Minneapolis satisfies ALL of Fisherdude's 3 criteria points he mentions:

"1. It must be essentially in the same town as the person in charge. This job takes daily/weekly follow up.
2. It must be in a city with a major airport hub. If not, airfare will skyrocket.
3. It must be within driving distance of enough members who will provide equipment for and set up the members' listening rooms. No member is going to ship his equipment. If this isn't made a top priority, members' listening rooms will evaporate."

The Minneapolis/St.Paul airport is just a few miles away right on interstate 494, along with such places as Valley Fair (huge amusement park), The Mall of America, and the Minnesota Zoo. All within 20 minutes of the hotel.

I'll just bet the Minneapolis/St.Paul area (50 mile radius) has just as many active AK members as the Detroit area, and I know we would have a large contingent of filled listening rooms from the area, myself being one of them.

The Hotel room rates appear to look the same and they have 500+ rooms available.

As far as someone being in charge, there are probably several of us in the area that would be willing to step up and help do what it would take to make this happen.

I believe EVERYONE would agree that it would still be "Grumpy's Show" and we would just be here to lighten his burden if called upon.

We may be able to add some local new vendors to the Fest such as Magnepan, The Needle Doctor, etc., and I know there are a bunch more audio manufacturers in the Minneapolis area as well. We'd also be darn near as close to Chicago as Detroit is for the vendors coming out of that city.

Well, this is just something else to think about????




Retro

[Retro Stereo]

Being from the Detroit area, I think it's fine where it is. And knowing the hard work the Grumpy family must put into this (and remember, they started the whole thing) - let's just leave it be for now.

This would be the "only" point of moving the Fest, all the hard work that Grumpy and his family put into it every year, maybe they would like a break? If Grumpy and family don't need a break and everything is cool with the hotel and the dates, I agree, keep it in Detroit. I'll be there wherever it is.



Retro

[Bigerik]

Unless things changed a LOT in the next 12 months, more than likely that would knock me out of the running.

[MAXZ28]

I agree with you Retro.....it's feasible should Grumpy and his family ever want to take a break. And if that were ever to transpire, maybe MPLS would be a feasible locale?

The hotel layout would work great for the listening rooms... The cabana rooms [ I think that's what they're called ] have patio-like doors which empty into a common area and it would be very accessible to everyone in attendance. Vendors could set up in the common areas and have their auditions take place there or in designated rooms.

And like you said, there's plenty of us locally to coordinate the goings on and solicit the local vendors...Cheapo / Applause Records, Electric Fetus, Midwest Speaker, Best Buy:sigh: Just kidding, folks [ although BB's Director of Marketing is my high school buddy ]!

Should duty call, I'm there with the rest of us soldiers!:thmbsp: But til then....Detroit it is.

[Fisherdude]

Well, to be honest, I believe the location in South Minneapolis satisfies ALL of Fisherdude's 3 criteria points he mentions:

"1. It must be essentially in the same town as the person in charge. This job takes daily/weekly follow up.
2. It must be in a city with a major airport hub. If not, airfare will skyrocket.
3. It must be within driving distance of enough members who will provide equipment for and set up the members' listening rooms. No member is going to ship his equipment. If this isn't made a top priority, members' listening rooms will evaporate."

...Well, this is just something else to think about????


Retro


I forgot to mention that it can't be under nine feet of snow in June.:D

[Retro Stereo]

I forgot to mention that it can't be under nine feet of snow in June.:D

Well, let's see, it's about 65 degrees out right now, with a high in the 80's tomorrow, and it's still only May! :D




Retro

[wajobu]

FWIW there's a really nice Louis Sullivan designed bank and a nice Art Museum in Cedar Rapids. Sound good to me.

[botrytis]

The point is - Do you have the gumshun and balls to take over for Grumpy who obviously needs a break. If you even think the word 'NO' don't even answer. You will have to put more heart into AK Fest than Grumpy does (if that is possible).

Honestly guys, for right now - I don't think we have anyone as dedicated as Grumpy.

[dogscanskate]

The AK Fest is Detroit based and I like that, good for their economy, nice highways and a wonderful city. It started here, why change a winning combination?

I loved the 10 hour drive to Motown and it deserves to grow there, Detroit can host a great audio fest! It's not that bad for us east coast people. Just as it's gathering attention, why on earth jeopardize it's future? It's reputation is now established!

Let Ms Grumpy and her old man do their magic!

[tentoze]

Unless things changed a LOT in the next 12 months, more than likely that would knock me out of the running.

I wouldn't even consider it.

[thedelihaus]

I'd like to attend next year. As for location, a few years back I'd say anywhere is fine. But now since I don't travel well anymore, I even opted out of this year's event.

But here's wishing it keeps growing, and with good fortune some day it's taking over a convention center in Vegas for a week.

[Andyman]

I forgot to mention that it can't be under nine feet of snow in June.:D

Clay, did you know you can ski 3 months out of the year in Minnesota?
The rest of the time it's too damn cold to go outside... :lmao:

[sauuuuuce]

Kokomo...

The beach boys song from the 80's?:D

[Wigwam Jones]

The beach boys song from the 80's?:D

No, that was a reference to a tropical island of the same name. Kokomo, Indiana is a small town in the middle of Indiana. And it is...:thumbsdn:

[240sx4u]

I voted for the cedar rapids move, but honestly it makes no matter to me. Timing was poor this year so I could not attend. Hopefully next year!

Evan

[Tmac83]

Hell Yes Cedar Rapids Iowa - Love The Idea!!!!!!! We could all go Irish Democrat for some food and beer!!!!

Close Airports to Cedar Rapids

Cedar Rapids
Waterloo (About 45 minutes away)
Des Moines (About 2 hours away)
Chicago (About 3.5 hours or so)

[inkman69]

kansas city!!!! amtrac and airport

[Arkay]

My opinion doesn't count. The difference between Minnesota, Kansas or even Colorado, doesn't seem to make such a big difference when you are starting out from Hong Kong to begin with... if I can make it at all, the domestic add-on flight will probably cost about the same peanuts, anyway!

I hesitate --at this late stage-- to point out that your poll may not be so well constructed. It would have been much clearer (less room for interpretive error) if the choices had read, "More likely to attend if moved to Kansas" and "Less likely to attend if moved to Kansas" instead of just "yes" and "no". It is very possible (even likely) that some people interpreted the answer choices differently from others.

[Stillone]

I like the Iowa idea, but I'm a little biased being in Minnesota.

FYI...FWIW

The geographical center of the lower 48 states lies outside of Lebanon, Kansas.

The geographical center of all 50 states is located 17 miles west of Castle Rock, South Dakota.

The geodetic center of the U.S. is found approximately 42 miles south of Lebanon, Kansas. (Note: A geodetic survey makes corrections to account for the curvature of the Earth.)
Gee, I thought that everyone on this forum thought the center of the universe was Binghamton, NY.

[Ms Grumpy]

I am in a unique position, mostly because I am married to the "Grumpy" one and I know what kind of work he puts into the fest.

AK fest started as a way to get the local members together. The guys would get the chance to meet and "show off" their audio equipment. Being that we have a tiny house, a local hotel was used. Over the years we have learned alot and continued to get better and better. This year was definately the best. But every year comes with its troubles and alot of stress.

Has the topic of moving the fest ever come up, sure it has...like anything else that you take pride in..we always want what is best for the members and best for the fest. As far as finding an inexpensive hotel, they are not that hard to find. But when you start telling them what we need, example: that you need the furniture removed, then the prices start to rise. Holding an event like AK fest is not like renting a hotel for a convention, it is alot more.

So here I am again. I still believe that, even with the economy troubles, we have more good things to do here in the Detroit area with AK fest 09 and beyond. AK fest is something near and dear to both David and I, and without the help of Ernie, Luther and Dave, it would not be such a great show.

Like it was suggested in this thread, you guys can get your local members over to your house, meet and most importantly "enjoy the music".


Nancy

[MountainMike]

I can empathize with those organizing the event and the problem with logistics. Perhaps we just need to have more regional events to open it up to others who want to attend. I guess that could only work if you could get enough sponsor support to make it work on the $$$ end.

[botrytis]

I am in a unique position, mostly because I am married to the "Grumpy" one and I know what kind of work he puts into the fest.

AK fest started as a way to get the local members together. The guys would get the chance to meet and "show off" their audio equipment. Being that we have a tiny house, a local hotel was used. Over the years we have learned alot and continued to get better and better. This year was definately the best. But every year comes with its troubles and alot of stress.

Has the topic of moving the fest ever come up, sure it has...like anything else that you take pride in..we always want what is best for the members and best for the fest. As far as finding an inexpensive hotel, they are not that hard to find. But when you start telling them what we need, example: that you need the furniture removed, then the prices start to rise. Holding an event like AK fest is not like renting a hotel for a convention, it is alot more.

So here I am again. I still believe that, even with the economy troubles, we have more good things to do here in the Detroit area with AK fest 09 and beyond. AK fest is something near and dear to both David and I, and without the help of Ernie, Luther and Dave, it would not be such a great show.

Like it was suggested in this thread, you guys can get your local members over to your house, meet and most importantly "enjoy the music".


Nancy

Hear Hear !!! :music: :D :thmbsp:

[Retro Stereo]

:DI am in a unique position, mostly because I am married to the "Grumpy" one and I know what kind of work he puts into the fest.

AK fest started as a way to get the local members together. The guys would get the chance to meet and "show off" their audio equipment. Being that we have a tiny house, a local hotel was used. Over the years we have learned alot and continued to get better and better. This year was definately the best. But every year comes with its troubles and alot of stress.

Has the topic of moving the fest ever come up, sure it has...like anything else that you take pride in..we always want what is best for the members and best for the fest. As far as finding an inexpensive hotel, they are not that hard to find. But when you start telling them what we need, example: that you need the furniture removed, then the prices start to rise. Holding an event like AK fest is not like renting a hotel for a convention, it is alot more.

So here I am again. I still believe that, even with the economy troubles, we have more good things to do here in the Detroit area with AK fest 09 and beyond. AK fest is something near and dear to both David and I, and without the help of Ernie, Luther and Dave, it would not be such a great show.

Like it was suggested in this thread, you guys can get your local members over to your house, meet and most importantly "enjoy the music".


Nancy


Nancy,
I think EVERYONE is in agreement with everything you say, and if you and Grumpy "want" to keep taking care of it, Detroit is where it should be. But, if you two ever need a break, I'm sure there are AK Members here that would be willing to step up and help, that is all this thread is all about. I am, and have always been, okay with wherever the AK Fest is, and if I wasn't, I guess I wouldn't have driven out to Detroit the last four years. :D




Retro

[grumpy]

I want to point out that I am not the only one capable of putting on the fest. I will point out that I am the only one stupid enough to put in thousands of hours for no pay to put on the show.

Its very easy to volunteer to put on the show. Its another to actually do it. Basically its a year round full time job with no pay. Oh yeah. By full time job I mean get up 6am in the morning and work on it till 10pm.

Again lots will offer but there is NO possible way it can be pulled off unless you quit your full time jobs to take on this task.

On another note the fest for 09 is nearly finalize. Yes Virginia there will be another fest. However I am considering this one as my last. At that time I may retire and the show will as well.

So to all those who say "I am coming next year"......well you better cause theres a good chance there will be no more.

Grumpy

[pustelniakr]

On another note the fest for 09 is nearly finalize. Yes Virginia there will be another fest. However I am considering this one as my last. At that time I may retire and the show will as well.
Grumpy
What does retire mean?

Enjoy,
Rich P

[Eric Clark]

I'll fill in the calander whenever you have the date picked.

[botrytis]

I want to point out that I am not the only one capable of putting on the fest. I will point out that I am the only one stupid enough to put in thousands of hours for no pay to put on the show.

Its very easy to volunteer to put on the show. Its another to actually do it. Basically its a year round full time job with no pay. Oh yeah. By full time job I mean get up 6am in the morning and work on it till 10pm.

Again lots will offer but there is NO possible way it can be pulled off unless you quit your full time jobs to take on this task.

On another note the fest for 09 is nearly finalize. Yes Virginia there will be another fest. However I am considering this one as my last. At that time I may retire and the show will as well.

So to all those who say "I am coming next year"......well you better cause theres a good chance there will be no more.

Grumpy

:sigh: Say it ain't so Joe!! :sigh: :tears:

[Twenty20Man]

well I think Grumpy nailed it,, he is doing the majority of the work, its hard enough to organize without attempting it by phone only... keep it there Grump

[Wigwam Jones]

What does retire mean?

To become tired again. I was tired, then I slept and wasn't tired anymore. Now I'm retired.

Or, to put new tires on your car. My tires wore out, so I retired my car. Of course, before I could retire, I had to detire.

Or, to go to bed. I have retired for the evening.

And there you have it. Good night.

[DENNYDOG]

I want to point out that I am not the only one capable of putting on the fest. I will point out that I am the only one stupid enough to put in thousands of hours for no pay to put on the show.

Its very easy to volunteer to put on the show. Its another to actually do it. Basically its a year round full time job with no pay. Oh yeah. By full time job I mean get up 6am in the morning and work on it till 10pm.

Again lots will offer but there is NO possible way it can be pulled off unless you quit your full time jobs to take on this task.

On another note the fest for 09 is nearly finalize. Yes Virginia there will be another fest. However I am considering this one as my last. At that time I may retire and the show will as well.

So to all those who say "I am coming next year"......well you better cause theres a good chance there will be no more.

Grumpy

I don't want to step on any toes but this is my take on it.

I thought this was talked over with Army and Grumpy to see how much interest there was to move the show?

It seems like there is good interest about having AKfest somewhere else and now it sounds like it will be no more. So be it if that is what you want but why was it brought up in the first place?

If you don't want to talk about it anymore lock the thread or delete it.

[Army]

I don't want to step on any toes but this is my take on it.

I thought this was talked over with Army and Grumpy to see how much interest there was to move the show?

It seems like there is good interest about having AKfest somewhere else and now it sounds like it will be no more. So be it if that is what you want but why was it brought up in the first place?

If you don't want to talk about it anymore lock the thread or delete it.

You aren't stepping on any toes Denny!
It was brought up because my greatest wish was to help shoulder some of the burden with or for Grumpy and family. I've been to every fest except the first one to lend a hand and I had also brought up this idea before because as one of Grumpy's close personal friends I know how big an undertaking this is and just how stressful it can be.
Dave had mentioned he was having a hard time finding a hotel in the area with decent rates and the needed dates. There are other shows and he plans AKfest so we have the best time frame for a good turn out and more importantly when the vendors are more apt to be available.
There are drawbacks to having the fest in Cedar Rapids I'll admit, I'd thought about most everything everyone has mentioned and didn't bother to try and sell the idea very hard. If I had I could easliy come up with alot more pro's and equally as many con's why the fest should be moved out of Detroit. But to do so would have been counterproductive, if the fest stayed where it is. Grumpy and I discussed the pro's and con's there were equally compelling reasons to at least post the idea.

As for closing or deleting the thread I'll leave it up to Grumpy.

[DENNYDOG]

So to all those who say "I am coming next year"......well you better cause theres a good chance there will be no more.

Grumpy

Why is it then that after next year it will "be no more"?

If he doesn't want the hassle it sure looks like there are plenty others that would gladly take over but seems to think that no one else besides him can do it. I can see his reasoning behind not moving it but like I said why bring it up?

If the plan is to not have another AKfest why not let someone else take over if they want to? I'm sure you, Retro or plenty others are dedicated enough to take on the challenge.

Denny

[Retro Stereo]

Denny,
I wasn't going to reply to this after Grumpy's last post, but now I feel the need.

This is Grumpy's site, and it is Grumpy's AK Fest every year. He is the CEO of AudioKarma and he runs the show. It now sounds like he will be putting on one more AK Fest (:thmbsp:), and then sadly afterwords, possibly retire (:tears:). This is entirely his decision, and the rest of us need to respect that.

That is all.




Retro

[DENNYDOG]

This isn't set in stone nor did I offer any of this without discussing it with Grumpy first. And yes I would do my best to be the eyes and ears and do as much as possible to set this up and manage this end of it. I also have a lot of family that would be able to lend a hand before during and after the fest.
I have a very good idea of what the burden Grumpy and Mrs Grumpy go thru every year to put on a show like this. And that is why I offered to find a hotel big enough and nice enough and do some of the prefest leg work over the last couple of days. And the hotel I contacted has the dates we prefer. This thread is only to gauge interest...

I understand he has every right to do what he wants. I just wish he would have said that was his plan to begin with. Obviously Army and Grumpy talked about it by the looks of it.

I am just wondering why there was a thread started about moving it in the first place if the plan was to have only one more fest? Why stir up conflict about it that might cause hard feelings?

[dnewma04]

If we were going to get the same 60/40 split of local vs non-local attendees, we'd need the entire state of Iowa to show.

[botrytis]

I understand he has every right to do what he wants. I just wish he would have said that was his plan to begin with. Obviously Army and Grumpy talked about it by the looks of it.

I am just wondering why there was a thread started about moving it in the first place if the plan was to have only one more fest? Why stir up conflict about it that might cause hard feelings?

Grumpy has to do what is best for Grumpy - please repsect that. They were talking about it - but someone would have to shoulder ALL the work that Dave does now. Please stop if you do not plan to volunteer - because I will NEVER EVER fault Grumpy on this.

As was said - this is Dave's site - he is the head honchoe - he can do what he wants and no one should fault him on that.

It seems as if no one is stepping up to the plate to take over and Grumpy has doen it long enough.

[DENNYDOG]

Grumpy has to do what is best for Grumpy - please repsect that. They were talking about it - but someone would have to shoulder ALL the work that Dave does now. Please stop if you do not plan to volunteer - because I will NEVER EVER fault Grumpy on this.

As was said - this is Dave's site - he is the head honchoe - he can do what he wants and no one should fault him on that.

I have all the respect in the world for the guy for all the things he has brought us. I don't know where you came up with that. I have never faulted him either for what he has done. Please don't disrespect me for my opinion either. I know it is his site and that he is the head honchoe. I never said he wasn't.

It seems as if no one is stepping up to the plate to take over and Grumpy has doen it long enough.

If you read the whole thread you would know that Scott (Army) said he is willing to take over. Greg (Retro Stereo) has also volunteered to help the cause. Grumpy has every right to say no if he wants and I respect that.

I'm not going to go back through the whole thread just so I can quote them. You can read it yourself.

Cheers,
Denny

[Andyman]

If you read the whole thread you would know that Scott (Army) said he is willing to take over. Greg (Retro Stereo) has also volunteered to help the cause. Grumpy has every right to say no if he wants and I respect that.

Cheers,
Denny
Well, that might be tough from hundreds of miles away. I guess they could do some legwork with vendors and all, but Dave would still have to sort out what they accomplished as now he's getting info second hand. Plus it would be pretty hard for anyone out of town to do anything in town like reviewing sites, auditioning talent for the entertainment and storing supplies/prizes, etc. Consider this year when Dave found out about the conflict at the old locale and had to jump through hoops to find an alternate? That would have been a world class mess if the guiding hand was out of town.
If someone wants to do some legwork and help Dave out, they may need to be closer than several states away to appreciably lighten his load.

[Retro Stereo]

Well, that might be tough from hundreds of miles away. I guess they could do some legwork with vendors and all, but Dave would still have to sort out what they accomplished as now he's getting info second hand. Plus it would be pretty hard for anyone out of town to do anything in town like reviewing sites, auditioning talent for the entertainment and storing supplies/prizes, etc. Consider this year when Dave found out about the conflict at the old locale and had to jump through hoops to find an alternate? That would have been a world class mess if the guiding hand was out of town.
If someone wants to do some legwork and help Dave out, they may need to be closer than several states away to appreciably lighten his load.


Andy,
I think you're confused. Take a look at the thread title. This was a hypothetical question about the 2009 AK Fest actually moving to Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Apparently Grumpy and Army discussed this and they were looking for feedback. That was it.



Retro

[Andyman]

Well. maybe a little. If either of you guys want to take it over and move the whole kit and kaboodle to Cedar Rapids or Minneapolis, I wish you well. FWIW, I'd see MN with more upside than IA, just because it's a bigger metro area.

It's ironic though that the two guys who are offering to help out are the only two guys with a member room that didn't live within 100 miles of the last Fest. Well, maybe Cosmos too, but he does work in Troy :D Just goes to show what these dudes are made of :thmbsp:

[pustelniakr]

Something like the fest requires signatory agency for AudioKarma. I don't know who else, besides Grumpy, actually has signatory agency, who can put in necessary time and horsepower to pull off something like the fest. Such things are a sticky wicket. None of the provisions of AK, or AK itself, are owed to anyone, period. What needs to be done is for everyone to find contentment with what is, or can be, provided.

Something that goes off as well as this year's fest does not go off easy, not even at the time it is going off. It is understood that folks want to help. No one is challenging anyone's sincerity. However, no-one but Grumpy (and possibly Nancy) has any idea what "all" is entailed by an event like this.

I strongly suggest we simply appreciate what is available, for as long as it is available. If asked to contribute in some way, don't respond positively unless willing to fufill the requested tasks, even to one's own hurt. The slack picked up by delegation of tasks, does not tend to remain slack, but gets immediately consumed by other tasks. If delegated tasks are then not fulfilled, they mut be re-absorbed by the delegator, in addition to the new tasks taken on. Believe me. I know personally.

Lets let Grumpy, the admins, and mods have some time to rest, recoup, and re-group. We will then see what develops. An event like this almost always results in initial decisions like, "Never again." Sometimes the "never again" sticks, and sometimes recoup time provides the necessary 2nd wind. In any case, this year's fest was spectacular. Thanks to "all" who contributed to its success. If it never happens again, it was definitely good while it lasted. There is nothing to keep folks from putting on local or regional gatherings of AK members. Such gatherings may not be able to bear the legal "AudioKarma" name, or sanction, without involving various kinds of liability for AK, but such gatherings can be, and have been, a whole lot of fun.

Just my 2-cents.

Thanks folks,
Rich P

[jimbofish]

Why mess with a good thing? Leave it where it is... besides, Detroit needs the business more than anywhere else. :yes:

Ain't no party like a Detroit party! :music: :banana: :beer: :rockon: :guitar: :beerchug: :drunk:

[bpape]

If I can add my 2 cents. I talked to Grumpy a bit at the show about the show itself. IMO, the biggest thing has to be the fact that the hotels won't let you do an 'up to X number of rooms' thing. They want a number - no more, no less. That not only puts a financial and stress issue on those running the show, but in all honesty, it stifles the growth potential of the show.

The only issue I see with moving the show to a different place every year is that you don't have a chance to establish a relationship with a hotel so both sides know what to expect and things can be better and easier negotiated over time.

If the show needs to go somewhere else to survive and there are others willing to take on the responsibilities, so be it. I know Glenn and I have talked and GIK will be there again next year. We'll likely have our own room with my electronics and ACI speakers (who we show with at other shows) as well as being in the David Michael Audio room. We see a lot of potential in this show. A few years ago, RMAF was about the same size and now it's probably the 2nd biggest serious high end show in the country every year.

My 2 cents

Bryan

[Mattwizz3]

hmmmmm... so no chance of it coming to Australia? I have a bit of room in the back yard and plenty of extension cables..... heh

[jazzwolf]

Wait a minute!!! I'm thinking of attending and now you want to move it?!! SHEESH!!! Was it something I said? Was it my breath?!! :D

[grumpy]

The 09 fest is not moving. Its in the same location as 2008

[Kuma]

Thank you.

[koslekt1]

I think it's great right where it is! The only thing I can think of that is worthwhile abut Cedar Rapids is a place that sells cinnamon rolls that are the size of your head...on second thought:scratch2:

[pbda]

When I come to the Fest, I'll be driving with gear.

Boston to Detroit: 716 miles
Boston to Cedar Rapids: 1,213 miles

How do you think I voted?

[specialidiot]

Yes, I would be more likely to attend if it was in Cedar Rapids.

However, the lack of a major airport my scare off others.

[Negotiableterms]

The 09 fest is not moving. It's in the same location as 2008

I'm closing this thread, only because the question has already been answered, once in the poll, and final-final by Dave!