Calling resident IRS experts!

[koslekt1]

I am looking for some expertise for some classics that I just won off the bay -IRS Betas! They are in excellent condition, all the panels work, the crossovers are fine, the surrounds are great :banana:

I have done a fair amount of research into the best way to power them. The original owner was using 4 Adcom 565 amps. I have little doubt thay they weren't effective, but a lot of reading tells me that tubes (and high powered tubes) are the way to go for the panels. It seems like the bass drivers will use anything with good power. I am hoping for some expertise!

My initial thoughts are to use McIntosh MC2250s for the bass and maybe get a Butler 2250 for the panels. Has anyone here used/heard the Butler gear? I know the Betas were designed using high powered ARC stuff, but after stretching the budget to get these guys, I have to keep add ons reasonable...

I look forward to your thoughts, suggestions, and witty comments :yes:

[marantz1156]

Whoa, i thought you were being audited! Sorry, back on subject.

[bastek]

At the price he paid i' m sure he will be audited. :D
I'm not an IRS expert but i' m a US resident. Congrats on the Betas and i hope you got a really large room. keep them away from wall and corners, and enjoy them. As for tubes, i think you will restrict low mid dynamics on those LEMIMs. You might try MOSFET amps if you like warm laid back sound. Some say high power Pro amps make the Betas sing. Good luck.

[Mark B]

Congratulations on getting the IRS Beta's. Awesome speakers.

:drool:


Looking forward to some pics.

[rabbit]

Were they the ones that went on ebay for $7100 !!!

Item: 110264321616

Looks like you had a bidding war in the last few minutes !!!

Congratulations on getting these great speakers in such pristine condition :banana: You'll have a great speaker for life ;)

Check out the in depth review of these speakers on Stereophile. This may give you some ideas of the best choice of equipment to go with these speakers ;)

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/988infinity/index.html

[koslekt1]

I am suprised I haven't been audited yet paying off all the stuff for this damn hobby!

Mark, is that the Yamaha MX10000 amp? Do you have one? Talk about :drool:

Paul, I appreciate your insights as I know you have had them for quite awhile. I have seen some shots from the Gon...nice :yes: I had the owner send some detailed shots of the surrounds and they are actually pretty darn good - as you said, even if they are, they are still on the end of their journey, but at least it isn't a on fire situation right now.

I feel comfortable for now with the Mc2205 for the woofers - they seem to take a lot of abuse and come back for more. They are bridged to 400 watts. I would love to try to score some burmester stuff - their damping is ridiculous. I have no doubt anything they are connected to stops on a dime. They sounded phenomenal in Indiana when I listened to them. Unless I could track down one of the Yamahas...

It is the panels that have me conflicted. The Butler is nothing worthwhile, eh? Thats sad. It looked too good to be true. If I went tube preamp, does that make enough difference to run SS? The ARC stuff is pricey - what other brands might you recommend? If I have to use SS, I am assuming I need to stay away from the super bright stuff (Krell, Marantz, etc).

As always, I appreciate the insights! And pics will follow!!

[rabbit]

beemer is correct. See the Stereophile review.

Equipment used for these tests included the Ortofon MC-3000 cartridge in the Versa Dynamics arm and turntable, a Stax Quattro CD player, a Sony PCM-F1 digital tape system, Threshold's FET-10 preamp and line controller and SA-1 power amplifiers, an Audio Research SP11 preamp, and pairs of Audio Research M-300 and VTL 300 mono amplifiers. Audio interconnects were Monster M-1000s, speaker cables were Monsters and AudioQuest Clears. Program material was some of my own and others' original tapes, and CDs and analog discs from Sheffield, Opus 3, Telarc, and Reference Recordings.

Prior to the visitations, LA and I had done some preliminary listening to the Betas with the FET-10 preamp, the SA-1s on the upper-range panels, and a Mark Levinson No.23 and a dbx BX1 (in turn) on the bass towers. The sound was excellent but not exactly what I would call superb. When Nudell arrived, he insisted that we try using tube electronics. He even brought along one of his own Audio Research SP11 preamps (the man owns five of them!), just in case we didn't have one gathering dust in the corner. We didn't, Arnie Balgalvis currently giving house-room to our Mk.II SP11. However, we did have a pair of ARC's M-300 amplifiers on hand, and these were pressed into service until, after about half an hour, one of them blew a screen fuse and died. (Evidently a tube let go, but with eight of them in each amplifier, we were not about to take the time to try and figure out which was the culprit.) Fortunately, we had just taken delivery of a pair of the new VTL 300W tube monoblocks.

With the solid-state electronics, the sound was rather dry—more so, in fact, than with the same electronics through the Sound Lab A-3s. With the SP11 and the VTLs, the sound was transformed, becoming much more liquid, open, and musical. Did this mean the tubed electronics were better than the solid-state ones, or just different? In fact, subsequent bypass tests confirmed that the FET-10 was slightly more accurate than the SP11, but there was no denying that, with the SP11, the Betas sounded more musically natural. Nudell confirmed that the Betas, like Infinity's other top systems, were designed in conjunction with Audio Research tube electronics, so it was hardly surprising that they sounded a little less decent with solid-state electronics, no matter how "accurate" these may have been. This report, then, applies only to the sound of the Betas with some of the best tubed electronics available. I think I can state with confidence that the system must be so used in order to fully exploit its performance capabilities.

[bastek]

Don't forget the most important factors after refoaming and amps:
Positioning, room size, and room-wall acoustic treatment. This can't be stretched enough, especially for dipoles like the IRS Betas.

[Mark B]

I am suprised I haven't been audited yet paying off all the stuff for this damn hobby!

Mark, is that the Yamaha MX10000 amp? Do you have one? Talk about :drool:

Paul, I appreciate your insights as I know you have had them for quite awhile. I have seen some shots from the Gon...nice :yes: I had the owner send some detailed shots of the surrounds and they are actually pretty darn good - as you said, even if they are, they are still on the end of their journey, but at least it isn't a on fire situation right now.

I feel comfortable for now with the Mc2205 for the woofers - they seem to take a lot of abuse and come back for more. They are bridged to 400 watts. I would love to try to score some burmester stuff - their damping is ridiculous. I have no doubt anything they are connected to stops on a dime. They sounded phenomenal in Indiana when I listened to them. Unless I could track down one of the Yamahas...

It is the panels that have me conflicted. The Butler is nothing worthwhile, eh? Thats sad. It looked too good to be true. If I went tube preamp, does that make enough difference to run SS? The ARC stuff is pricey - what other brands might you recommend? If I have to use SS, I am assuming I need to stay away from the super bright stuff (Krell, Marantz, etc).

As always, I appreciate the insights! And pics will follow!!
Good luck with the amps. Use the best you can afford.


(and yes, that's my Yamaha MX-10000)

[kmanusa]

All great advice, you would be wise to heed! From my own 35 years in this hobby, here are a few more tidbits:

Positioning is everything, especially with these multiple tower Infinity's. Don't be afraid to move them around the room and experiment but, in general, you should keep the dipole towers far from the walls.

Use a lot of different recordings to evaluate; don't just "lock in" on 1 or 2, you may be optimizing the few at the expense of the many.

You might try picking up a decent real time analyzer (no, not the Radio Shack) to help you with set up and setting levels on the amps. I use a Phonic PAA2 with pink noise test signals off of the CD that is supplied with it. It is very useful as a guide but the final set up must be done by ear.

My experience using Macs with output transformers on the Infinity RS-4.5 is that they are a little too full in the bass. But they tend to sound pretty good on the EMIMs/EMITs, FWIW. I have the 2205 and 7270 amps.

I don't care for tubes on the bass end of the 4.5; I don't think you will even want to consider them for the bass towers of the Betas. On the other hand, you'll want to experiment with tubes on the mids/highs as has been suggested. In my room, 100 watts per channel works for my 4.5s mids/highs. One tube option might be an ARC VT-100. But YMMV, especially if your room is big-- you may need more power than this which will be expensive with tubes.

Don't fool around with the surrounds, get them refoamed by someone who is reliable. You may be one big bass drum wack from disaster. I don't believe you can find replacement woofers if you damage them by playing music through partially crumbled woofer surrounds.

Enjoy the Betas, they are legendary!

Keith

[koslekt1]

You guys rock - I definately appreciate the expertise you bring to the table. I have always been a fan of learning from others. :thmbsp:

I have a nice sized room (18x25x8) and have a fair amount of room to move them around, so thats nice. I have a few friends with different gear that will allow me to experiment, so thats good too. Between the advice from here and some trial and error, I am highly optimistic! And really, is there a better way to waste time than to play with new gear? :music:

[robertk]

The other expense you are probably looking at is cables. They do make a difference and I would say equivalent to a tonearm upgrade. You'll get that refinement and details. But you still have to pay $$ for amps/ a pre-amp/ cables. And actually need that kind of gear to pull out the those sounds from new cables.

But look at it this way---if you do get an audio research or whatever amp, they definately have a re-sell value and won't depreciate much. Look at it this way---lets say you have audio research driving them/krell bass amp/audio research amp/MIT cables. The sound you would have would be how much $$$ compared to going into a high end stereo in 2008 and tried to equate that sound?

[koslekt1]

But look at it this way---if you do get an audio research or whatever amp, they definately have a re-sell value and won't depreciate much. Look at it this way---lets say you have audio research driving them/krell bass amp/audio research amp/MIT cables. The sound you would have would be how much $$$ compared to going into a high end stereo in 2008 and tried to equate that sound?[/QUOTE]

That is one of the main reasons why I thought I would go after these guys. Obviously everything depreciates, but these have been around for nearly 20 years and as long as I take care of them (and why wouldn't I?), you are exactly right - my dollars get me a top notch system AND I won't be destroyed later down the road.

And how cool is it when people come over and go Holy Sh*t, what the heck are those? :yes:

Half of enjoying this hobby is putting together systems and swapping stuff out. And that is WAY too expensive to do with all brand new stuff!

[koslekt1]

These have caused grown men to cry into their beverage of choice.


I guess as long as I get to choose the beverage it could be worse :D

You're pickin up what I'm throwin down. I absolutely don't mind the nuances of positioning and tweeking, but it will just make me cranky if I try something that yourself or someone else has already tried and passed on, if you know what I mean.

I never have read anything about choice of cables regarding these. Any thoughts on those?

Terry

[Mark B]

If I had the Beta's I'd run a Yamaha MX-D1 (500wpc into 8/6/4 ohms) on the bass. As for the top end I am not a tube guy, and take what tube guys say as an opinion, not a fact, so I'd run the SS Mosfet MX-10000 on the top end. If I didn't have an MX-10000 I'd run another MX-D1.

[koslekt1]

[QUOTE=beemer;1971161]Keywords here are "if I had the Betas".

You don't. So then, you are speculating. The Yamaha amps you choose are quite good, and not inexpensive, however a very poor choice for the mid/tweeter panels of IRS-Betas. When I say this I am not speculating.
With that setup, the speakers will perform at perhaps 60% of their true potential at best.

Gentlemem, gentlemen, please, can't we get some love? :smlove:

As of now (and this could change by the time I am at the end of typing), I am thinking about trying these three amps for the bass: two Adcom 565s, the Parasound 3500, or the Earthquake Cinenova 3 channel amp (obvioulsy only using 2 of the 3!).

The Mids/Highs I am still debating. Almost everyone says tubes (as nearly all panel speakers owners do) but the trick is finding some powerful tubes that can put up with a load and not die in two hours. That is why I was hoping the Butler stuff was up to snuff...

Ultimately, I would like to stay at 2500 or less to address the amps. The SS stuff I figure a grand will do, but that other half is scary :para:

[Mark B]

Keywords here are "if I had the Betas".

You don't. So then, you are speculating. The Yamaha amps you choose are quite good, and not inexpensive, however a very poor choice for the mid/tweeter panels of IRS-Betas. When I say this I am not speculating.
With that setup, the speakers will perform at perhaps 60% of their true potential at best.

I'm not looking for a pissing contest, but our AK'er koslekt1 has embarked on a journey where mistakes can be very costly.....especially mistakes made by speculation.

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:
That is exactly the response I expected. I doubt you've heard either of those amps, so you're speculating how the Beta's would perform with them.

[Mark B]

.....
As of now (and this could change by the time I am at the end of typing), I am thinking about trying these three amps for the bass: two Adcom 565s, the Parasound 3500, or the Earthquake Cinenova 3 channel amp (obvioulsy only using 2 of the 3!).

The Mids/Highs I am still debating. Almost everyone says tubes (as nearly all panel speakers owners do) but the trick is finding some powerful tubes that can put up with a load and not die in two hours. That is why I was hoping the Butler stuff was up to snuff...

Ultimately, I would like to stay at 2500 or less to address the amps. The SS stuff I figure a grand will do, but that other half is scary :para:
I'm sure you'll enjoy the journey of finding the amps you'll be happy with.

[Mark B]

..... As to the MX-D1 Class "D" statement amp, it would appear this made a small splash in the pond back in '05 but then fell flat and now can be had for less than $1000 if you shop it around as I found out this evening with a quick Google search. Class "D" is wonderful for output, but less than stellar in control and damping factor. If you like one note bass these class "d" products are great.....

So, perhaps this may provide a bit of insight for you about Betas.....and amplifiers and their sonic traits.


Paul,

The MX-D1 is a superb amp - in 2002 when it was introduced and now. The fact that it is being offered at discount prices doesn't change that, it just makes it a huge bargain.

I offered the OP some amplification possibilities based on my experience. You've offered the OP your advice. I don't doubt that your choices would work very well, but unless the OP is ready to spend the amount of money necessary to buy those amps it's really not an option.

best,
Mark

[CAK1]

Not to through a wrench in the works but...

You want iron, look into a pair of Aragon Paladium's for the bass towers. My friend has these powering his IRS Sigma's and they work very, very well. I use an Aragon 4004 to drive my Ren 90's and my Prelude MTS towers. Between the both of us with my Rens and his Sigma's we've gone through 6 preamps, cd players and five amps. The Aragon stuff just "works" with Infinity's.

I am using a Jolida CD-100 now with my Aragon. It's nice to be a able to roll some tubes to tailer the sound.

Here are some specs and a link.

design 1-ch Monaural Amplifier
power ouput 8 400 watts into 8 ohms at less than 0.02% THD (5Hz-20kHz)
power output 4 600 watts into 4 ohms at less than 0.03% THD
frequency response 5Hz-20kHz +0/-0.1dB
5Hz-100Hz +0/-2.0dB
tim/dim distortion 0.010%
s/n ratio 112dB A-weighted
damping factor 200 (8 ohms - 50Hz)
input sensitivity 60mV-1W / 1.2V-400W (SE and BAL)
input impedance 15k ohms (SE)
45k ohms (BAL)
power consumption 120W @ Idle / 1500W Maximum
built from 2002

http://www.klipsch.com/products/discontinued/details/palladium-1k.aspx

They come up on Agon around $2300-2500 for a set.

[rabbit]

Vintage Audio Research has a very unique sound signature. What was TOTL at the time of the Beta's release is not the best sounding you can find today.

I would never consider Audio Research tube amps of the mid eighties for Betas today, nor would I consider an Audio Research SP11 preamp. Been there, and done that too. It was a happy day here when I sold my SP-11, over 12 years ago.

LOL it's your money. Again, spend it wisely as you will have to resell what doesn't work on the Betas......and believe me.....there far more that doesn't work than does.

Forgive me, but reading your posts I feel that you are already in over your head with these. You need to forget just about everything you thought was right before you bought them. You have purchased what may be the world's fussiest speaker to get right. These have caused grown men to cry into their beverage of choice.

Every, and I mean EVERY piece of the signal chain in front of Betas matters. You shall see. There is no middle ground with these, in 6 months you will either love them or hate them.

LOL I don't mean to sound harsh, and that is not my intent. I have been down the road that you are starting on now, and it is full of potholes and bad buying choices. :yikes:

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:

Hello Beemer,

There is another way of looking at this and on a more positive note koslekt1 has ended up with a speaker which is probably a hell of a lot better than what he already owns or has owned in the past ;) Even with a mismatch of ancillary equipment the performance should still be miles better than anything he had before and he should currently be getting a lot of enjoyment out of it already ;)

When the time is right and he sees some better gear on the 2nd hand market at the right price then he will be able to make his move on it ;) Rome wasn't built in a day ;)

Good luck to him and he should have a great system for years to come ;)

[phaedrus]

There is another way of looking at this and on a more positive note koslekt1 has ended up with a speaker which is probably a hell of a lot better than what he already owns or has owned in the past ;) Even with a mismatch of ancillary equipment the performance should still be miles better than anything he had before and he should currently be getting a lot of enjoyment out of it already ;)

When the time is right and he sees some better gear on the 2nd hand market at the right price then he will be able to make his move on it ;) Rome wasn't built in a day

This is far and away the best advice I've seen in this thread.

David

[kurtgo]

I do not have nor have ever heard the Betas. I do not have nor have ever heard the Sigmas. My listening space is not the same as anyone else's.

However, I do have the 4.5s. I have had (still do actually, just not hooked up) the Aragon 4004's (2) in a vertical bi-amp setup with the 4.5s. I presently am running the Parasound 3500 powering the bass - horizontally. For some reason the Parasound made the bass sound more smooth, fast and authoritative with additional lower freqs being produced than anything I have hooked up to them yet. Oh, Manley 120 watt monoblocks on top. I can't tell you anything about those other than I am enjoying my music (speakers)! I know you will as well!

[bastek]

I'm running my Sigmas with a Yamaha DSP-A1 110W integrated and they sound great. A great speaker should sound good with most decent amps. I don't believe a designer would make a speaker sound good with specific amplifiers only. I will try the new Emotivas in the future, but i don't think they'll make a difference in normal listening levels.

[kmanusa]

Rome wasn't built in a day ;)



Very true. Spend some time just getting used to the sound of the speakers before "optimizing". I would focus on just getting them positioned in your room first and worry about amps and the like in due time.

Enjoy!!

[cdfac]

I will try the new Emotivas in the future, but i don't think they'll make a difference in normal listening levels.

i was just reading about those yesterday, and i couldn't even find a real review. when are they supposed to be available?

[bastek]

i was just reading about those yesterday, and i couldn't even find a real review. when are they supposed to be available?

They supposed to be out by the end of August. Not sure i want to go with a 2 ch or multichannel pre-pro and power amp.

[rabbit]

That is exactly the response I expected. I doubt you've heard either of those amps, so you're speculating how the Beta's would perform with them.

Those Yamaha's would be a superb amplifier ;)

But more to the point does anyone know the technical reason why its is claimed that tube amps are a better match for the Infinity ribbon drivers ??

I have some ideas but i'd like to see what others think !!

[koslekt1]

THE BETAS HAVE ARRIVED! :banana:

The wait from last week til today was a long, long time, but 1pm, a huge UPS Freight truck shows up, and suddenly I have three large boxes proclaiming audio excellence. Thank goodness I have a dolly or else I might have been crushed under the boxes!

I wheel one of the woofer columns into the house and open it up, expecting potential trouble with the original surrounds and the shipping from Georgia to Michigan. No issues - solid, still resilient, and the cabinet is in excellent shape. Now, the real b*tch of it is that I am alone and while I'm a sizeable guy, the columns are beyond a one man job...so from 1 until 4:30 I am staring at the open box and biding time until one of my phone calls gets returned and help can come.

Dad calls me back before anyone else and he swings over, sees the size of the boxes and just shakes his head. We wrestle them into position. Since I had the down time between arrival and setup, all wires and connections were checked and rechecked. All I need to do is plug them in.

WOW.

What a soundstage. One of the hot debates was in regards to what to power these guys with - right now I am just using two MC2205 McIntosh amps. Great amps, but not out of this world, either. And most everyone recommends tubes on the front side and for the flat panels. That being said, these still sound spectacular :D

Between the controls on the x-over box and the ones on the bottom of the panels, they allow all kinds of tweaking. The Mc's are one of the warmer sounding SS amps out there and after some listening, I actually turned up the tweeter and super tweeter a hair.

The bass is just ridiculously stupid. I was concerned about how high the crossover has to be for these guys to play up to the bottom output of the panel. I have no concerns anymore. :no: They put out a wall of tight, musical bass that is neither overwhelming or "one note". And while the surrounds are in very good shape, as Paul pointed out, they are 20 years old - the will only sound better with fresh surrounds. Unbelievable.

I have already flipped in and out about 20 CDs and I just shake my head every time - each track is like I have just found a master recording and am listening to it for the first time. Songs I have listened to 1000's of times are bright and shiny and new.

Why the hell did Infinity sell out and quit making stuff like this??? :tears:

Anyways, thanks for all of the assistance and comments along the way. Paul, your experience was most especially helpful - I printed out your initial turn on instructions and was ready on the power switch, but zero feedback!

Pics will follow as soon as I can!

Best Regards,
Terry

[CAK1]

Awesome!!:thmbsp:

[beemer]

THE BETAS HAVE ARRIVED! :banana:

The wait from last week til today was a long, long time, but 1pm, a huge UPS Freight truck shows up, and suddenly I have three large boxes proclaiming audio excellence. Thank goodness I have a dolly or else I might have been crushed under the boxes!

I wheel one of the woofer columns into the house and open it up, expecting potential trouble with the original surrounds and the shipping from Georgia to Michigan. No issues - solid, still resilient, and the cabinet is in excellent shape. Now, the real b*tch of it is that I am alone and while I'm a sizeable guy, the columns are beyond a one man job...so from 1 until 4:30 I am staring at the open box and biding time until one of my phone calls gets returned and help can come.

Dad calls me back before anyone else and he swings over, sees the size of the boxes and just shakes his head. We wrestle them into position. Since I had the down time between arrival and setup, all wires and connections were checked and rechecked. All I need to do is plug them in.

WOW.

What a soundstage. One of the hot debates was in regards to what to power these guys with - right now I am just using two MC2205 McIntosh amps. Great amps, but not out of this world, either. And most everyone recommends tubes on the front side and for the flat panels. That being said, these still sound spectacular :D

Between the controls on the x-over box and the ones on the bottom of the panels, they allow all kinds of tweaking. The Mc's are one of the warmer sounding SS amps out there and after some listening, I actually turned up the tweeter and super tweeter a hair.

The bass is just ridiculously stupid. I was concerned about how high the crossover has to be for these guys to play up to the bottom output of the panel. I have no concerns anymore. :no: They put out a wall of tight, musical bass that is neither overwhelming or "one note". And while the surrounds are in very good shape, as Paul pointed out, they are 20 years old - the will only sound better with fresh surrounds. Unbelievable.

I have already flipped in and out about 20 CDs and I just shake my head every time - each track is like I have just found a master recording and am listening to it for the first time. Songs I have listened to 1000's of times are bright and shiny and new.

Why the hell did Infinity sell out and quit making stuff like this??? :tears:

Anyways, thanks for all of the assistance and comments along the way. Paul, your experience was most especially helpful - I printed out your initial turn on instructions and was ready on the power switch, but zero feedback!

Pics will follow as soon as I can!

Best Regards,
Terry

Hello Terry:

I'm glad the turn-on sequence went OK. I'm also glad the surrounds are good, however I would still get them done. It was all pleasure for me speaking with you on the phone.....now you can hear the magic!

What happened with Infinity is Arnie Nudell sold to Harman Group and founded Genesis Technologies. This is a logical extention to the golden age Infinities however at this time Arnie is no longer affiliated with Genesis.

If the Betas really push your buttons and you want to go to the "next level", Genesis made a model: Genesis II which when you see it will immediately remind you of the Betas. Others in the line were the Genesis 200 and 201, and the Mighty Genesis 1.1 which would be the succesor to the Infinity IRS V.

You have my phone......don't hesitate to call. And if you think it is good now, wait 'til you hit those panels with a good tube amp. You will be amazed at the improvement. I'm SO GLAD for you that these are living up to your expectations. :yes:

Oh, and by the way:


:worthless :D


Best,

Paul :thmbsp:

[koslekt1]

Thanks Paul -

I know you said that in 6 months they'll be speakers that I'll love or hate, but as of now I can see why it took something insane like the Pipedreams to move these guys to your bedroom system!

The refoams will be done ASAP - probably next week. I have little doubt that they will only sound all the better afterwards.

I have a buddy that works at Audio Advisor and he is helping to get me some Vincent tube gear to check out, so that will help me to demo just what that extra warmth will do. And I will keep my eyes peeled for one of the ML-3's!

I think the copper wires were a great suggestion !

Terry

[beemer]

Thanks Paul -

I know you said that in 6 months they'll be speakers that I'll love or hate, but as of now I can see why it took something insane like the Pipedreams to move these guys to your bedroom system!

The refoams will be done ASAP - probably next week. I have little doubt that they will only sound all the better afterwards.

I have a buddy that works at Audio Advisor and he is helping to get me some Vincent tube gear to check out, so that will help me to demo just what that extra warmth will do. And I will keep my eyes peeled for one of the ML-3's!

I think the copper wires were a great suggestion !

Terry

I've seen the Vincent pieces in the AA catalogs....it's good to have a friend there as the best possible thing for you will be being able to try it before you buy. This is a GREAT plus for you......... never heard them myself.....I'll be looking forward to hear what you have to say after you try them. :yes:

I'm sure the surrounds are fairly "loose" as they are now. Replacement will tighten up movement of the cones, and also increase the accuracy of what the accelerometers report back to the control box. You hear the bass you have now, imagine it tighter and more tuneful. As you increase current and damping factor control, what will happen is it will become easier to distinguish the actual instrument making the bass note, and it's placement in the soundstage. I have been in your shoes......it's a fun ride!

I'd be willing to bet right about now your feet are not touching the ground. :smoke:

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:

[Mark B]

Glad to hear they made it safely!

Enjoy! :music:

[koslekt1]

Paul, you are correct, sir - since these first came (safely) to life, I have been barely touching the ground.

I have always enjoyed music and usually have it on in the background if I am home, but since these things have arrived, I have become much less productive! Albums that I usually just listen to a song or two have suddenly been listened to all the way through.

Next week my buddy is supposed to be able to borrow some of the Vincent tube monos, so I am very excited about that. Depending on how flexible his sales manager is being, we may try a swap of the pre as well, although my little Anthem TLP1 is surprisingly musical. I will definately follow up with reviews.

Here are some pics, from boxes to initial setup. The seller from Ebay, Dave, said he thought they were in excellent condition. In looking at them after unpacking, I would say he is right. I have found one mark on one of the trim pieces of panels. It was very cool to find them packed with all of the original foam!




98939

98940

98941

98942

98943

98944

[beemer]

Lookin' good!

Take the woofer columns and put the outer side and the back side of each tower about 1 1/2 feet from the intersection of the corners of your room. Take the mid/tweeter panels and put them about 1 1/2 feet out from the inner side of the woofer towers with the outer edges of the mid/tweeter panel on the same plane as the inner side of the woofer towers. Listen again! It'll change. Tell us how that sounds. As I see it, a bit of "breathing room" may open them up more for you. LOL they look excellent and well-kept.

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:

[rabbit]

For what it is worth I've been told that having a large hard flat surface such as a TV, between the speakers can play havoc with the imaging. A temporary fix is to put a heavy woolen blanket over the TV (while it's not on of course ;)).

[rabbit]

Hello Terry:

If the Betas really push your buttons and you want to go to the "next level", Genesis made a model: Genesis II which when you see it will immediately remind you of the Betas. Others in the line were the Genesis 200 and 201, and the Mighty Genesis 1.1 which would be the succesor to the Infinity IRS V.


Genesis 2

http://www.infinity-forum.de/Images/Genesis_2_2.jpg

From http://www.infinity-forum.de/irs_beta.html

[Silver 7t]

[QUOTE=beemer;1979011]Hello Terry:

I'm also glad the surrounds are good, however I would still get them done. It was all pleasure for me speaking with you on the phone.....now you can hear the magic!


I have the infinity kappa 9 although they are great. I need information on getting new surrounds where do I start.