I pulled out a Joni Mitchel cd the other day, and was listening along
When I noticed some skipping. Pulling out the cd for a clean, I first inspected it. Held it up to the light and could see light through a place or two. One was particularly bad, and looking at it, it would appear that it was abraided , or rubbed off, except that it wasnt. All the funky stuff was inside the cd layers, not on the surface at all. This cd is probably 10-12 years old. Looking at several older ones, I found some with slight pin holes, but nothing like the other one.

Anyone else experience anything like this?

Russellc

There is a pages-long thread on CD rot that's a year or more old - hit the search for more than you ever wanted (or cared to) to know about the production process and chemicals/metals used in CDs. :yes:

As far as your Joni Mitchell CD... toss it and try to find another. :(

Yes I have but mostly with CD copies I made.

OK, here's a link to an article that discusses CD rot in commercial discs. The pertinent bits are near the end, IIRC.

http://www.slais.ubc.ca/PEOPLE/students/student-projects/C_Hill/hill_libr516/print.htm

Hi,

Where was your CD made? On the bottom of the top layer in the legalese area, it will tell you which plant pressed it. Some WEA Manufacturing discs were prone to this defect. Also, some WEA product was pressed by Discovery Systems in Dublin, Ohio (those discs were prone to this issue). That plant made very few WEA discs.

Only one so far...a Robert Plant album.

I have had that issue with only two CDs. In each case, I was able to burn a perfectly playable copy.

I had a lot of computer cd's that became trash.. I would almost swear CDs were made this way on purpose... at least you know an LP won't degrade just sitting there on your shelf so you won't have to buy another in a few years..

I have lots of WEA and Crapitol-EMI discs from the 80's to mid-90's that are full of pinholes and bubbles on the label side. For whatever reason, while playable as new, they later became unplayable...on anything. Funny, these two companies were lousy at making vinyl. They apparently kept the tradition in place. I learned to make backup copies before they died.

I have had that issue with only two CDs. In each case, I was able to burn a perfectly playable copy.

I have a couple as well...thanks for the tip, Rich. :thmbsp:

I have had that issue with only two CDs. In each case, I was able to burn a perfectly playable copy.

Makes sense. The error correction system in the recorder will make up for the errors on the original.

Hi again,

Updated list of CD manufacturers which are suspect:

WEA Manufacturing (prone to pinholes at times, check yours carefully)
EMI Swindon (Top layer scratches easily, otherwise OK)
EMI-Capitol US (Early production from this plant had lots of pinholes, check carefully)
Nimbus UK and USA (Top layer scratches easily and plating goes with it. Some inks used reacts to the lacquer on the top layer)
PDO UK and France (UK discs top layer deteriorates and turns tarnished easily. OK if slightly gold looking. The only PDO France discs I see issues with are very early manufacture)
Discovery Systems/Metatec (Early Discovery Systems discs have lots of pinhole issues and deterioration of top layer. Late discs made by Metatec are very fine)
JVC Japan (A few early discs have pinhole issues. Most superb)

Moderators: Post as a sticky if desired! Should explain things well.

With discs from these companies. Check for pinholes, top side scratches or bronzing. If you see any, use your favorite ripping program and burn CD-R discs on quality media while you can still play these. You're on borrowed time. EAC (Exact Audio Copy) works great with marginal discs or discs on the verge of failure.

Hi,
Here is my complete list of CDs that got rotten:

Unicorn (UK): Mahler Symphony # 3 /Horenstein/LSO
Mahler Symphony # 1 /Horenstein/LSO

Angel (UK Pressing) : Mahler: Das Lied von Der Erde/Klemperer/PO

DG: Beethoven: Piano concerto #5 /Kempff/Leitner/BPO
R: Strauss: Ein Heldenleben /Karajan/BPO (Digital version)
Horowitz recital (Horowitz the poet)

I wrote back to the service department of all of these companies. Only DG answered, apologizing and replacing the CDs. The letter included an explanation of this phenomenon attributed the oxidation of the metallic information layer, and mainly happened in a few presing plants. I don´t remember the details, but I should still
have that letter somewhere.

My personal statistics is that 6 CDs got rotten out of 4500, and my collection started in 1986. That makes 0.13 %.

All the best

I have some CDs with pinholes - but they were like that from the day I bought them (started buying in 1983). None have got any worse, or been unplayable.

Degeneration was a problem with laservision discs - but never affected any of mine. Maybe it has something to do with climate?

I'm on my third copy of G&Rs Use Your Illusion I. I thought I was just wearing them out, but now...?

I have a few early discs with tiny pin holes that play fine. Some early discs were pressed very well, some like crap. No different then records. I decided to spin my West German first press of Roxy Music Avalon in honor of this thread. Also have three original DSOTM Black Label First Pressings.

I guess I'm lucky as I have not experienced any cd rot in the 20+ years of buying them.

Kent, thanks for posting that suspect manufacturers list. I'll check more carefully now.

Similost, cds weren't made this way on purpose. You know better than that.

Cheers fellas.

Interesting thread, everyone. Good info. However, I'm left with a question: Suppose I'm faced with a rotten CD which I wish to burn on new media. What brand/type/style/whatever of blank CD material is the best choice for longevity? I've been using SONY CD/R (the colored packs available at WalMart) for a few years and they seem to be holding up fairly well so far. Bad choice? Can I do better?

. . . Suppose I'm faced with a rotten CD which I wish to burn on new media. What brand/type/style/whatever of blank CD material is the best choice for longevity? I've been using SONY CD/R (the colored packs available at WalMart) for a few years and they seem to be holding up fairly well so far. Bad choice? Can I do better?

There are many factors that go into creating a good quality CD. Hardware, software, media, handling, environment, and storage all play important parts.

I've chosen these for best overall CD-R/CD-RW media:

-MAM-A Gold CD-R (mfg by Mitsui)

-Verbatim LightScribe CD-R (mfg by Moser Baer)

-Taiyo-Yuden CD-R & CD-RW (mfg by Taiyo-Yuden)

The MAM-A Gold is the best choice for archival longevity since 24K gold doesn't oxidize. It also usually has the lowest amount of C1 errors created during the burn process, regardless of burn speed. At least on MY equipment it does.

The Verbatim LightScribe CD-R media has been really good also, and I have had people use an audio CD-R to send to a CD manufacturing house, and they've never been rejected. Although, I always recommend sending the MAM-A gold premaster I make especially for the production house.

. . Falcon

I have a few that look like they have rusting spots on the side opposite the label. I can't remember the titles off hand but they skip like crazy when you try to play them. They are not scratched either.

I have a few that look like they have rusting spots on the side opposite the label. I can't remember the titles off hand but they skip like crazy when you try to play them. They are not scratched either.

Yup, that's the oxidation on the metal layer. Generally happens with early production CD's that didn't get sealed off very well with the outside polycoat layer.

. . Falcon

Having worked in an industry where we were required to deliver data on various media ranging from floppy dis to 9-track tape, I've a bit of experience here. CD became the de-facto standard in the mid-90's and we went through many writers and media types during the early years. Research showed that factory produced CD's were much more durable than CD-R's though they were subject to manufacturing and storage problems as well.
We saw factory CD's destroyed by corrosion, mold and mechanical wear and CD-R's that failed due to bad chemistry, exposure to off-kilter lasers and just pi$$ poor manufacturing.
The big lesson is to backup and store the original media in as controlled environment as possibe. Backing up CD's to hard drives is trivial these days and provides many benefits including bit-perfect copies, more reliable digital streams, cataloging and indexing.
I generally clean and rip my CD's to disk immediately and store them plastic storage bins with a desiccant bag, playing the tracks on a squeezebox, Ipod (in the car) or a computer with optical out to an external DAC.

I have never had any CD give me any problems since I started using them in 1985. I don't clean them, either. Of course, I take very good care not to scratch or otherwise mess them up. And I don't loan them out. If someone wants a copy, I'll burm 'em one.

I used to take horrible care of CD's, but I've only had a few suffer disc rot. Most notably, CD-R's from the late 90s. A few redbook CD's, but I can't recall what off hand.