Given an 166 MKII with factory arm and an (new) AT3482H/U t, upgraded with petra cables, new belt.

vs.

a 125 MKII with SME Series III arm with a Dynavector 10x5 (100hrs)...

same system behind both, and them being setup to the best of my 'newish' abils (meaning sorta equal ground).....what would you expect to be the similiarties/differences, better/worse etc tween them....?

I think the 125/SME/Dyna would kick the 166 arse in every way. Just my opinion.

I think the 125/SME/Dyna would kick the 166 arse in every way. Just my opinion.

Yes, I don't think there's any question about this.

I´m not so sure. The TD 125 / SME Series III is the better combination, no question about it.

However I don´t think the 10x5 suits the Series III all that well. That arm only gives its best when coupled with high compliance cartridges.

Given an 166 MKII with factory arm and an (new) AT3482H/U t, upgraded with petra cables, new belt.

vs.

a 125 MKII with SME Series III arm with a Dynavector 10x5 (100hrs)...

same system behind both, and them being setup to the best of my 'newish' abils (meaning sorta equal ground).....what would you expect to be the similiarties/differences, better/worse etc tween them....?

The 125 gets my vote - not even close.

Alberto

Hey all, Thanks for the replies.

From all of my reading and perusing the iNet, that’s what I expected as well. But I gotta tell you fellas, that’s not what I’m experiencing atm and my wife is giving me ‘stink eye’.

The 166 has more high end and the low end is more smeared( not in a holy-shit kinda way, just that I’m ‘really listening' for something to be different), yet it hits you in the chest with thump….the 125 on the other hand, is a lot mellower and ‘defined’ almost petite…but no wallop, I keep wanting to reach for the volume knob and turn it up. The 125 IS a helluva lot more quiet, in all manner of speaking.

Maybe it’s still the setup or the 10x5 has more hours on it than stated etc…idk…night and day difference…no way, not atm ><.

Maybe it’s source material… been using…
Bjork-Joga
Led Zep – Whole lotta love
Jeff Buckley – Hallelujah
U2 – With or Without….maybe some solo Piano/Classical will bring it out more….any suggestions? Different Cart.?

The stink eye is sucking up my ego…

I´m not so sure. The TD 125 / SME Series III is the better combination, no question about it.

However I don´t think the 10x5 suits the Series III all that well. That arm only gives its best when coupled with high compliance cartridges.

I totally agree with this assessment! :yes:
The SME III (only 4.5g effective mass IIRC) is much more suited to carts like the Grado Reference models or the Shures (eg V15xmr) with 20um or greater compliance.
Of course VdH Frogs LOVE the SME III!!
The Dynavector is way outside the window

Still, if YOU like how it sounds, that's all that matters...
WOT

I didn't know the SME was a low mass arm. In that case the Dynavector was poor choice by whoever originally put it on there. I use a 10X5 and in no way does it lack punch. With a medium to high mass tonearm I don't think you'd even be asking for our opinions.

I didn't know the SME was a low mass arm. In that case the Dynavector was poor choice by whoever originally put it on there. I use a 10X5 and in no way does it lack punch. With a medium to high mass tonearm I don't think you'd even be asking for our opinions.Yea yea Mr. ;) I LOVE the 10x5 on almost any Rega arm...
(great value too)
WOT

Yea yea Mr. ;) I LOVE the 10x5 on almost any Rega arm...
(great value too)
WOT

My turn to agree wholeheartedly.:yes:

Every now and then I have the chance to listen to my friend´s Rega P3 / 10x5 feeding a Sony / Nakamichi / Magneplanar 3.5´s set up and it sounds amanzingly good.

I have a TD166 MkII with a Pioneer tonearm. It is an excellent table in all respects and I think almost all users would be happy with it. I don't know if the Pioneer arm is better than the stock 166 arm as my 166 never had the stock arm - it came to me sans arm. (I had a TD145 years ago but won't attempt to make a comparo since it is way too long ago for me to remember, except that I really never found anything to complain about.)

That said, a 125 is a better machine in every area I can think of. I can't imagine why anyone would take a 166 over it, especially since the 125 has an SME arm. The 125 might be a bit more fussy and require more TLC than the 166 but that shouldn't dissuade you.

Put them on a scale of 1 - 10 and I would give the 166 a definite 8 but the 125/SME combo gets an easy 10. And if the cartridge is a bad match for the SME - replace it.

I would rather own the 125 and probably I would like the sound better also.

Go for what sounds better.
Saying that I would pick the 125. You can easily replace the cables, the belt, and the cartridge (relatively).

I think the 125/SME/Dyna would kick the 166 arse in every way. Just my opinion.

No Question!
Regards,
Jim

In addition to the substantial difference in arms on these two tables, the drive platter bearing on the 125 is significantly beefier. Likewise, on the 166, Thorens began to use lightweight plastic on the drive platter rather than metal. Give the drive platter a spin on the 125 and you can leave the room and come back again and it won't be stopped. Literally.

If the 125 combo is sounding weaker right now, it is either a set up or compatibility issue.

Dave

I agree with all the above that the 125 is unquestionably the better choice, but look out for the electronics -- that Wein bridge isn't entirely problem free.
The SME III is a wonderful arm, best suited to high compliance cartridges, but because it has variable mass (fewer lead plates in the counterweight, farther from the pivot gives you higher dynamic mass, or you can simply put weight in the headshell), and it has damping that lessens the importance of compatibility, it can be used relatively successfully with a wide range of cartridges. It doesn't obviate the issue, but palliates it. I used a Denon 103S for years in mine, and while it may not have been its absolute best, but it did sound very good. I went to the 103S from a Yamaha MC 7, which replaced an AKG P8ES, which I thought was the best moving magnet I ever heard, and each step seemed an improvement, and maybe I would have heard even more in a higher mass arm or one with tighter bearings, but I liked them all alot.
So if you like the Dynavector, don't assume you have to dump it.

I agree with all the above that the 125 is unquestionably the better choice, but look out for the electronics -- that Wein bridge isn't entirely problem free.
The SME III is a wonderful arm, best suited to high compliance cartridges, but because it has variable mass (fewer lead plates in the counterweight, farther from the pivot gives you higher dynamic mass, or you can simply put weight in the headshell), and it has damping that lessens the importance of compatibility, it can be used relatively successfully with a wide range of cartridges. It doesn't obviate the issue, but palliates it. I used a Denon 103S for years in mine, and while it may not have been its absolute best, but it did sound very good. I went to the 103S from a Yamaha MC 7, which replaced an AKG P8ES, which I thought was the best moving magnet I ever heard, and each step seemed an improvement, and maybe I would have heard even more in a higher mass arm or one with tighter bearings, but I liked them all alot.
So if you like the Dynavector, don't assume you have to dump it.

Thanks for all the replies/advice,

The person I bought the unit from sent a Shure V15 with it, figuring this was the original cart. that came with the arm and 'had it's day', he replaced it with the Dynavector. I put the Shure on there and spent awhile setting it up...

...now where gettting somewhere...definatly a big step in the right direction.

Spent the day reading up on 'what current' carts would do good by the SME..

came across some ideas about adding weight to the cart. and/or something called a 'Longhorn' Mod for using the Grado Green etc...
Nat, if I'm understanding correctly this is along the lines of what your suggesting(?)

The Grado Reference series is a little out of my ball park atm..

so far from looking around I've found that these 'might' be suitable

Denon 301
Ortofon 2m series Red/Black
Shure M97XE...not sure about this one, but needledoctor/shure indicate this is the baby V15.

I don't mind spending anywhere up to $500+- atm, but can't jump to the 1,200 range...remember 'stink eye'...after putting the Shure on there, I got the nod..soo

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks in advance.

I don't know why I didn't mention this before, but I also have a Thorens TD125 MKII, and for a while I had the 10X5 on there. Now, keep in mind my Thorens has the original TP16 tonearm, which is a higher-mass tonearm. The combination was fantastic, and it got even better when I added a headshell weight. Now the 10X5 is on my Pro-Ject with the headshell weight and it sounds better than ever, so a medium mass tonearm will work just fine with this cartridge, but I recommend using a headshell weight if you can.

Check out AT-440 cartridge. I believe it´s still available.

Jorge

I was thinking of the headshell weight that is placed between the shell and the cartridge, but the longhorn adaptation is an interesting alternative -- the AVA (audio by van alstine) site has a description.
You might investigate the JICO replacement stylii -- it seems that people have used their stylii with V 15s and been pleased. There are several threads on them on AK.