View Full Version : RCA dynaflex vinyl


ryson2
09-10-2008, 07:00 PM
What the heck is this stuff. I picked up a copy of Waylon's "Good Hearted Women" today and was suprised to find some sort of flimsy disc RCA used for "improved sounds and playability"?

Ive never seen these before, anyone have any?

I dont think a ride on the RCM is a good idea with this one....

luvvinvinyl
09-10-2008, 07:05 PM
Early 80's vinyl? About 90-100 grams, I estimate. Do you use a record clamp? I use a SOTA I-Clamp. It helps with these.

That LP will survive a ride on your RCM, no problem. At least, they don't seem to mind my VPI 16.5

Celt
09-10-2008, 08:02 PM
Dynaflex came out in the early 70's. RCA tried to market it as an improvement, but it was nothing more than a way to skimp. I used to refer to them as "Evatone Soundsheets". (The old timers will know to what I'm refering to.) ;)

ke4jhj
09-10-2008, 09:05 PM
I used to refer to them as "Evatone Soundsheets". (The old timers will know to what I'm refering to.) ;)

Very true!:lmao:

kodawaru
09-10-2008, 09:16 PM
Dynaflex came out in the early 70's. RCA tried to market it as an improvement, but it was nothing more than a way to skimp. I used to refer to them as "Evatone Soundsheets". (The old timers will know to what I'm refering to.) ;)

I don't get that at all.
I know it will ruin the joke but explain please?

JB5pro
09-10-2008, 09:18 PM
for an old album "Elvis' Love Letters" when I was a 6 year old. Even at that age I suspected it was a cheaper quality record but like all kids I thought if it is newer than the previous styles it must be better! Now I understand that new usually means "rip-off" in one way or every other.

vinyl1
09-10-2008, 09:45 PM
Some of them can sound surprisingly good anyway. It is hard to ruin good recording and mastering. I have a wafer-thin Reiner Tannhauser/Magic Fire Music on Victrola that somehow sounds better than the original shaded dog LSC.

kodawaru
09-10-2008, 09:53 PM
Come to think of it I have a "floppy copy" (hehe) of Sheherazade that is on par with an audiophile copy I own.

Pio1980
09-10-2008, 10:16 PM
Pre-CD era.
Eva-tone sound sheets were paper-thin "freebie" promotional phono records put into magazines and mailers that sometimes required additional weighting with coins to play without slipping on the turntable. Give-away promotional CDs, DVDs, and ROMs are the modern equivalent but without the inherent performance compromises of the sound sheets.
S.B

Celt
09-10-2008, 10:19 PM
I don't get that at all.
I know it will ruin the joke but explain please?

http://www.evatone.com/AboutEvatone_History.aspx

A "soundsheet" was an extremely thin vinyl record that was usually inserted in to magazines, envelopes, etc. as a way to sell a product. Music magazines sometimes had interviews with artists or groups on soundsheets and when I was growing up, every few month Readers Digest (or similar) would use them to demonstrate record sets they were selling. Somewhere I have a stereo soundsheet for an HH Scott stereo FM tuner from the early sixties. What did they sound like? Sheet.

Urchinn
09-10-2008, 10:20 PM
Omigod...Eva Tone! The factory was in St. Petersburg, Florida. One day we took a tour of the place because we wanted to release our first punk record on flexi (that was around 1979?). They treated us like royalty...but it came to naught. Wow, I still love those things. Remember Flexi-Pop magazine? Every issue had a cool New Wave flexi!

kodawaru
09-10-2008, 11:07 PM
http://www.evatone.com/AboutEvatone_History.aspx

A "soundsheet" was an extremely thin vinyl record that was usually inserted in to magazines, envelopes, etc. as a way to sell a product. Music magazines sometimes had interviews with artists or groups on soundsheets and when I was growing up, every few month Readers Digest (or similar) would use them to demonstrate record sets they were selling. Somewhere I have a stereo soundsheet for an HH Scott stereo FM tuner from the early sixties. What did they sound like? Sheet.

Gotcha.
Because knowledge is power!

Doug G.
09-10-2008, 11:18 PM
As others have stated, Dynaflex records were first released in the early seventies around the time of the first oil "crisis" (although it was actually a bit before this).

RCA advertised them as being actually less likely to warp than thicker records. There were variations in the thickness of these just as there is with other records.

Some of them can almost be bent in half and will return to their normal state when released whereas most are a little thicker than this.

Regardless, they really aren't any better or worse than any other mass produced record, especially sound quality-wise.

Of course, RCA touting the superiority of Dynaflex may now be cynically viewed as a cover for their efforts to cut costs, and it may be true, but there you have it.

EDIT: "Dynaflex" is very often confused with "Dynagroove" which dates from the early sixties and they are two entirely different things.

Doug

mhardy6647
09-11-2008, 07:33 AM
The purists have just about as much disdain for the "Dynagroove" technology as the "Dynaflex" pressings, though :-)

Celt
09-11-2008, 07:53 AM
Yes, Dynagroove was a BAD idea.

radiotvnut
09-11-2008, 09:33 AM
My orange label copy of David Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust" album is pressed on "dynaflex" vinyl and it sounds quite good (to my ears). My biggest complaint is how flexible it is. I've seen some later RCA pressings with the black label on dynaflex vinyl.

On Eva-Tone soundsheets: There was another use for them. Talking books for the blind. The library of congress issued books and magazines on 9" flexible disc recorded at 8 RPM. They could only be played on record players issued by the library of congress.

Celt
09-11-2008, 10:35 AM
The thing RCA didn't think about was how the Dynaflex albums were going to play on the millions of BSR mini-changers in the marketplace. Mini-changers had tiny 7" platters and most tracked at upwards to 10 grams. End result was the edge of the album drooping down and scraping against the plinth and in the best case, horrid mistracking due to improper angle. Granted, those who played their records on mini-changers probably didn't care about their care anyway.

mhardy6647
09-11-2008, 11:22 AM
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107974

at least it's not a Red Label...

KeninDC
09-11-2008, 11:55 AM
Some Dynaflex LPs are not bad. As pointed out above, "Ziggy" is pretty darn good. That being said, the UK, non-Dynaflex vinyl "Ziggy" is a revelation.

Dynaflex has a higher noise floor than virgin vinyl, but for many great recordings (Lou Reed's "Transformer"), if you want the original pressing, you have no choice.

Celt
09-11-2008, 12:51 PM
One my favorite albums from that era was Paul Kantner & Grace Slick's "Sunfighter". It was on RCA's "Grunt" label and has to be the thinnest album I've ever owned. That being said, it's a decent sounding pressing (given its original production values).

pbda
09-11-2008, 12:53 PM
Pre-CD era.
Eva-tone sound sheets were paper-thin "freebie" promotional phono records put into magazines and mailers that sometimes required additional weighting with coins to play without slipping on the turntable.

Sometimes it helped to put a couple of coins on the headshell as well to ensure proper tracking. :D

ke4jhj
09-11-2008, 01:17 PM
In all fairness, the Dynaflex albums didn't sound that bad, actually most sound very good.

However, a lot of the albums pressed in late '73 and '74 seem to have a "swooshing" noise at the beginning and between tracks. I credit that to the sub-par vinyl during that period as a result of the Arab oil embargo and resulting shortages.

I was a member of the RCA Music Service during that period and as a result, most labels were also Dynaflex since they did their own pressing.

There was a time or two when I wanted to see if I could fold one of the LPs like a Taco, but never did.:D

KeninDC
09-11-2008, 01:19 PM
However, a lot of the albums pressed in late '73 and '74 seem to have a "swooshing" noise at the beginning and between tracks.

Exactly.

I'm not anti-Dynaflex at all, it just ain't West German (WG) vinyl when it comes to the noise floor. The music on many of these pressings is fantastic.

ponderbear
09-11-2008, 01:28 PM
Pre-CD era.
Eva-tone sound sheets were paper-thin "freebie" promotional phono records put into magazines and mailers that sometimes required additional weighting with coins to play without slipping on the turntable. Give-away promotional CDs, DVDs, and ROMs are the modern equivalent but without the inherent performance compromises of the sound sheets.
S.B

whippersnappers might know them as flexi-discs or just flexis.

Blue Meanie
09-11-2008, 08:42 PM
Dynaflex came out in the early 70's.

Late 1969, actually.:D

Doug G.
09-12-2008, 12:17 AM
Late 1969, actually.:D

Care to give us THE example? :D

Doug

Celt
09-12-2008, 08:00 AM
Late 1969, actually.:D

Well, I was close. :) Funny thing, I would occasionally buy new releases on RCA that were still pressed like their records from the 60's. Big thick, ultra-flat platters with shiny labels. They must have had at least one old presser still working. I guess RCA was like other labels in that they had more than one pressing plant in the U.S.

beatcomber
09-12-2008, 11:36 AM
Omigod...Eva Tone! The factory was in St. Petersburg, Florida. One day we took a tour of the place because we wanted to release our first punk record on flexi (that was around 1979?). They treated us like royalty...but it came to naught. Wow, I still love those things. Remember Flexi-Pop magazine? Every issue had a cool New Wave flexi!

I think Evatone is in Clearwater. They're still around too!

Yeah, I remember Flexi-Pop. I still have the 1980 issue with two otherwise unavailable recordings by the Jam!

ha1156w
09-13-2008, 11:21 PM
I've heard Dynaflex referred to as "Dynawarp" because of the tendancy to warp in a warm room. Those outside of the southern edge of the US may not quite understand what a 105 degree day will do to things during summer. Even then, the practice was to close off parts of the house so the AC could keep up with the excessive heat. If your collection happened to be in one of those parts......

I had a couple of records that I can recall warping as they lay on the turntable in the early 80's. Can't recall the labels, but I know it couldn't have been that impressive a quality of vinyl if it'd do that.

Rock6x
09-13-2008, 11:28 PM
whippersnappers might know them as flexi-discs or just flexis.

I must be a whippersnapper then. That's what I remember them as. And I think I got one ON (not in) a box of cereal one time. :yes:

vinyl1
09-14-2008, 10:51 AM
Well, I was close. :) Funny thing, I would occasionally buy new releases on RCA that were still pressed like their records from the 60's. Big thick, ultra-flat platters with shiny labels. They must have had at least one old presser still working. I guess RCA was like other labels in that they had more than one pressing plant in the U.S.

Yeah, Hollywood, California; Indianapolis, Indiana; and Rockaway, New Jersey.

KentTeffeteller
09-14-2008, 05:38 PM
Hi,

A tip, your RCA Records deadwax will indicate which pressing plant made it. I= Indianapolis, IN, R= Rockaway, NJ, H= Hollywood, CA.

Celt
09-14-2008, 08:17 PM
Yeah, Hollywood, California; Indianapolis, Indiana; and Rockaway, New Jersey.

Hi,

A tip, your RCA Records deadwax will indicate which pressing plant made it. I= Indianapolis, IN, R= Rockaway, NJ, H= Hollywood, CA.

Good info! :yes:

radiotvnut
09-14-2008, 08:49 PM
I've got a record here that I believe is worse than Dynaflex. It is called "20 chartstoppers" on the salem label. The record is fractured, probably from something heavy being dropped on it. It has some hard to find songs on it and I'm keeping it long enough to salvage what I can off it before I trash it.

danj
09-14-2008, 10:18 PM
Ah, yes! The old "Dynawarp" again rears its ugly head!

The first Dynaflex release was in late 1969 and was a HENRY MANCINI album, the name of which totally escapes me. IIRC, the first John Denver RCA album also came out in 1969 on the old dynawarp.

I have two RCA albums I purchased new in 1970. Both are Dynaflex. One is Paul Kantner's "Blows Against the Empire.' The other is "Worst of Jefferson Airplane."

The fidelity was okay - certainly no worse than the typical pop LP of the period - and the Kantner album actually was a very good sounding record, despite being pressed on ultra-flexible vinyl. It still sounds great, even after thirty-eight years of frequent rotation.

clydeselsor
09-14-2008, 10:46 PM
Yes, Dynagroove was a BAD idea.

What's wrong with Dynagroove? I have some that sound really good.

mhardy6647
09-15-2008, 07:32 AM
http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/95/

Celt
09-15-2008, 07:56 AM
Thanks Mark!

Doug G.
09-17-2008, 01:51 PM
Frankly, I agree with Clyde. I think all of this anti-Dynagroove stuff is a bunch of B.S. that has continued just because J. Gordon Holt said it was bad.

Most of the Dynagrooves I have sound very good.

No offense intended toward anybody.

Doug

iLUVanalog
09-17-2008, 02:08 PM
What the heck is this stuff. I picked up a copy of Waylon's "Good Hearted Women" today and was suprised to find some sort of flimsy disc RCA used for "improved sounds and playability"?

Ive never seen these before, anyone have any?

I dont think a ride on the RCM is a good idea with this one....


I believe that's all it was....thinner vinyl. RCA's thinking at that time was apaprently that thinner vinyl would have better sound. And since they were using a little less vinyl, that helped keep their costs down.

If I'm way off with this, anyone feel free to chime in!

ChairSpud
09-17-2008, 03:01 PM
I recall at the time RCA touting Dynaflex a way to continue using the same quality vinyl while other manufactures used more and more fillers.

Although I don't particularly care for thin LPs, I don't recall ever having problems with one warping and none stand out as bad sounding.

circlesky73
09-20-2008, 01:47 AM
As an example of RCA's wonkiness, I have two different Dynaflex titles, both with 1S stampers.

One is Nilsson's "Pussy Cats". It sounds phenomenal.

The other is Cass Elliot's "The Road Is No Place For A Lady" (with the 'two years before disco' disco-sounding AC hit "(If You're Gonna) Break Another Heart"- sorry, had to plug it). It sounds ficking horrid. Way way overbright, harsh highs, treble distortion like no other. And this is the same on three 1S pressings. Maybe it's the way it was engineered? And this is one of her best albums- great material, great voice (when it's not lost in ssssibilacccesssss.)

I also found an Elvis LP with a Dynaflex label... but the disc is a standard pre-Dynaflex weight. Odd. I also love how quite a few of his CD4 "Aloha From Hawaii" LP were pressed on Dynaflex vinyl with no mention of it on the label! :thumbsdn:

Here's the funny thing- RCA's 8 tracks from the same era sounded great (or great by comparison of other labels).

op135
12-04-2008, 12:06 AM
I always thought they were more susceptible to scratching (like most thin records) and that added poor sound quality, thus making a lot of people not like them.

wianieq
12-04-2008, 12:28 AM
I was wanting to get the Muswell Hillbillies by the Kinks for a long time and it seemed that it was only on the dynaflex discs. That always kept me from buying it. Now its been rereleased on 180 gram. I had to buy it.:music:

Doug G.
12-04-2008, 01:18 AM
I always thought they were more susceptible to scratching (like most thin records) and that added poor sound quality, thus making a lot of people not like them.

Why would a thin record be more susceptible to scratching? It's still vinyl.

There is really nothing better or worse with Dynaflex.

Doug

pmsummer
12-04-2008, 05:49 AM
Dynaflex came out in the early 70's. RCA tried to market it as an improvement, but it was nothing more than a way to skimp. I used to refer to them as "Evatone Soundsheets". (The old timers will know to what I'm refering to.) ;)

http://onepixeldesign.com/stereo/pmsummer.jpg

pmsummer
12-04-2008, 05:58 AM
I've heard Dynaflex referred to as "Dynawarp" because of the tendancy to warp in a warm room. Those outside of the southern edge of the US may not quite understand what a 105 degree day will do to things during summer. Even then, the practice was to close off parts of the house so the AC could keep up with the excessive heat. If your collection happened to be in one of those parts......

I seem to recall listening to music through headphones in the summer of '69, sitting in front of the window AC, with a blanket draped over the vents and me. Personal air conditioning. :yes:

Russ L
12-04-2008, 06:36 AM
http://www.evatone.com/AboutEvatone_History.aspx

A "soundsheet" was an extremely thin vinyl record that was usually inserted in to magazines, envelopes, etc. as a way to sell a product.

MAD magazine put out one with Alfred E. Neuman "singing". It was 5 minutes of belching.

Celt
12-04-2008, 08:27 AM
MAD magazine put out one with Alfred E. Neuman "singing". It was 5 minutes of belching.

I have that! Actually, it's 2.5 minutes of belching along with surf music. :lmao:

pmsummer
12-04-2008, 08:46 AM
I have that! Actually, it's 2.5 minutes of belching along with surf music. :lmao:

Isn't that a track on Brian Wilson's "Smile"?

TerryB123
12-04-2008, 09:19 AM
I was wanting to get the Muswell Hillbillies by the Kinks for a long time and it seemed that it was only on the dynaflex discs. That always kept me from buying it. Now its been rereleased on 180 gram. I had to buy it.:music:

I've got that Dynaflex MH record, it's not bad at all. I also have the originals of all the new Kinks reissues (MH, Soap Opera, Misfits, etc.) Considering I bought them in Junior High, and used at that, I doubt I paid more than $5 apiece. Much better value than the new reissues in my book.

TB

op135
12-04-2008, 04:47 PM
Why would a thin record be more susceptible to scratching? It's still vinyl.

There is really nothing better or worse with Dynaflex.

Doug


I used a poor choice in words, my mistake. I didn't mean they were "more susceptible to scratching," I meant a stylus would detect scratches on Dynaflex more than a normal record. I always thought the grooves were not as deep as a normal record, and that would increase the chances of a stylus producing noise from a scratch. I say that because a deep-grooved LP is obvious to my eye, and those records, in my experience, have a greater chance of not producing an audible noise from a scratch than Dynaflex, which I have noticed to have "shallow grooves."

cactuscowboy
12-04-2008, 08:18 PM
I used a poor choice in words, my mistake. I didn't mean they were "more susceptible to scratching," I meant a stylus would detect scratches on Dynaflex more than a normal record. I always thought the grooves were not as deep as a normal record, and that would increase the chances of a stylus producing noise from a scratch. I say that because a deep-grooved LP is obvious to my eye, and those records, in my experience, have a greater chance of not producing an audible noise from a scratch than Dynaflex, which I have noticed to have "shallow grooves."

That's been my experience as well.

If they're not scratched, Dynaflex discs can sound quite good.

Doug G.
12-04-2008, 10:27 PM
I seriously doubt that Dynaflex records have any shallower grooves than any other typical record.

After all, they would have been made to standards meant to assure satisfactory tracking just the same as ordinary discs.

Doug