As far as I can tell, the wadia device does 4 things:

1) it identifies itself to the ipod as an apple approved product
2) it instructs the ipod to send down the digital information instead of analog
3) it receives the digital information
4) it sends the digital out, unaltered as far as I know

Of these, the first step is probably the most complicated and expensive.

OK, it also knows how to handle analog input from the ipod, but I've got a simple cable that can do that.

So why does the thing have to be so big? I would think you could get all that functionality out of something the size of a peanut.

Have you seen the rest of the Wadia line? They are build to be pieces of art (and typically bulletproof).

I dont find it that big for an iPod dock that is typically supposed to sit next to other high end gear... If anything it's stable and wont tip on just about any surface.

I see your point. Wadia has a specific market and the itransport is designed for that niche. I guess that since it is the only device of its type currently available, I'd rather it fill my niche. Perhaps in time.

Are there any other docking stations that pass the iPod's digital output to an outboard DAC like the Wadia? Preferably something smaller?

Meridian has the iRIS Ipod Dock but it seems to be dedicated for using HD video.......no info on if it bypasses the IPODs internal DAC..........as for as I can see or the info I can find on the net is that the Wadia 170i is the only one that by-passes the IPOD's internal DAC

As soundhd points out, people are excited about the Wadia dock as is it is the ONLY device (right now) that can send out an unaltered digital bitstreams from the iPod. With a decent DAC and good uncompressed audio on the iPod's HDD this can make a huge difference.

If you're looking for a more basic analog out/charging dock product, there are plenty of them out there that sound quite good. I use a marantz IS201 and am very happy with it.

That said, as soon as I've got a little extra $$ around I'll be getting a Wadia for the main rig!

I'm kind of scratching my head over the same questions. I'm interested in having some fun with my iPod by using uncompressed audio files and an external dac, just to see how good the music can sound from a pocket sized music server. So, by using something like the Wadia, you can accomplish this. However, if you look at this logically, since the Wadia doesn't contain its own dac, then you're using it strictly as a connector between the iPod and the external dac.

Am I the only one questioning $380 for a connector??? Apparently it's the only current connector available to output the digital data, but how long will that last? If the Wadia is utilizing the connector at the bottom of the iPod, then the digital data is...right there in that socket.

It's not like nobody else will market another product that will do the same thing.

For like $19.95. Maybe I'll wait a bit.:headscrat:

I'm kind of scratching my head over the same questions. I'm interested in having some fun with my iPod by using uncompressed audio files and an external dac, just to see how good the music can sound from a pocket sized music server. So, by using something like the Wadia, you can accomplish this. However, if you look at this logically, since the Wadia doesn't contain its own dac, then you're using it strictly as a connector between the iPod and the external dac.

Am I the only one questioning $380 for a connector??? Apparently it's the only current connector available to output the digital data, but how long will that last? If the Wadia is utilizing the connector at the bottom of the iPod, then the digital data is...right there in that socket.

It's not like nobody else will market another product that will do the same thing.

For like $19.95. Maybe I'll wait a bit.:headscrat:

:withstpd:

The iPod is the music source of the future and I salute Wadia for doing this. I hope they sell lots and make a ton of money. Then others will jump in the market and sell lots more for lots less! :)

It just doesn't look sexy to me. It's too big and looks cheap. I like the Apple dock more, but it doesn't do the same.

Not that I'm a big believer of digital jitter problems (I mean the levels typically present vs audibility), but, just in case it matters to you...here's the Footnote excerpt from the Stereophile review.

"Footnote 2: I recorded the bits coming from the Wadia's coaxial S/PDIF output to my lab PC via the digital input of an RME soundcard, with Wes's iPod Nano playing a losslessly compressed file. I then compared that recording with a WAV rip from the original CD. The files were bit-for-bit identical, meaning that the 170iTransport is indeed transparent via its digital output. However, the datastream appears to have fairly high jitter, which will make the Wadia's sound quality dependent on the D/A processor used.—John Atkinson "

Been looking more into the Wadia 170I.........have read reviews, asked questions...........it somehow gains access to the audio data stream is how it's bypassing the internal DAC...that is needed if you want to get audiophile grade audio out of the IPOD........you use the digital output, feed that into an external DAC and that gives you your audiophile grade signal........the unit also has the usual analog RCA outputs and has video also if your into that.....
The reveiws I have read have been very positive.......it does appear to be made very well.......so it is just more then a dock. I am thinking about getting one but also have to get a external DAC also so I am looking into that too.........not a cheap venture but might be worth it..........the IPOD is here to stay no matter what anyone says.......and if you can bypass the IPOD's internal DAC (a cheap one....) and get very good audio out of it then why not........just my opinion .......:smoke:

PS: As for the above "jitter" question....a good external DAC will fix that............

Yeah...if you have an Ipod and the desire to get "audiophile" grade sound it might be worth it. Or, you could just use digital out from the computer that the Ipod syncs with and skip the docking station.

:withstpd:

The iPod is the music source of the future and I salute Wadia for doing this. I hope they sell lots and make a ton of money. Then others will jump in the market and sell lots more for lots less! :)

I absolutely agree that the iPod is an enormously important device. It is now changing, and will continue to change, the world of music. I'm on my third, and I love it. That's why I'm very interested in using my iPod as a server, with uncompressed and/or lossless music files, and an outboard DAC. And I admire all early-adopters. Not sure which whay that sign is pointing, though...:D

Apparently, getting the digital out of an iPod is anything but straightforward. It's in there, in front of their DAC, but the controller chip won't let it pass to the docking port. There has to be some authentication and handshaking between the iPod and the connected digital output device, and Apple has given Wadia the code. So there's the reason for the price.

Yeah...if you have an Ipod and the desire to get "audiophile" grade sound it might be worth it. Or, you could just use digital out from the computer that the Ipod syncs with and skip the docking station.

Of course, then I wouldn't actually be using the iPod...

Yeah...if you have an Ipod and the desire to get "audiophile" grade sound it might be worth it. Or, you could just use digital out from the computer that the Ipod syncs with and skip the docking station.


Of course, then I wouldn't actually be using the iPod...

It would still serve well in its portability function.

I guess I'm sort of assuming that all the music on an Ipod came from ones computer...and that the Ipod isn't the primary means of music storage and management thereof.

No, you're right. The ultimate sound quality isn't the objective when you're jogging. And, I certainly wouldn't be able to take the DAC, the amp, and the speakers in the car. So, the portability aspect of the iPod is moot when we're discussing the digital output to a DAC. And I do use iTunes as my primary music management app.

The iPod is still cooler than using my PC as the server, though!:yes:

I did find a web site on the net for a place that is doing modifications for the Wadia...... http://www.asi-tek.com/wadia2.html ASI-TEK

They say they can do alot of modifications and upgrades to the Wadia......not cheap though........one mod that is interesting though is the addition of a DAC to the Wadia......don't know how good it is compared to all the other external DAC's that are out there..........but for all of you looking at the Wadia....check the site out............more "fuel" to the "fire"........:music:

I've been using iPods to store WAV files for years and listening to them using Shure's top of the line e5c earbuds. When Wadia started the buzz on the iTransport, I watched with interest. But, ultimately decided to go with the AppleTV instead. A 160 GB AppleTV costs $319 today, $60 less than the Wadia and you get another storage device that outputs analog and digital audio, along with video.

Granted, I don't think the AppleTV is much of a video device, but it makes an excellent music server. It syncs automatically and wirelessly with your iTunes every time you load new music on iTunes. The Wadia looks cool, but the AppleTV is more bang for the buck in my opinion.

The AppleTV digital output to a good outboard DAC sounds terrific!!

I came to the same conclusion as BmWr75. The ATV is cheaper and does a lot more than the Wadia dock. If you don't have an IPOD already and don't need a portable device, its even cheaper as you don't need to get an IPOD. The ATV is essentially a non-portable Video IPOD. I think most look at the ITransport and think audiophile grade IPOD, but when you find out you need an outboard DAC, the ATV makes more sense.

I went to the Apple web site and looked up the info on the Apple TV........I could not find any information on if the unit has the capability of accessing an IPOD's pre internal DAC data stream like the Wadia does...........I will say the unit does have alot of different types of outputs......(beside a set of analog RCA's all the different/current types of digital outputs....). But unless the Apple TV can gain access to the IPOD's pre-DAC audio signal, the Wadia is still the front runner for getting audiophile audio out of a IPOD by by passing the IPOD's internal DAC.....that is the main reason why some of us are taking a serious look at the Wadia..........maybe someone out there that has a connection of some sort to Apple that find that info out.....but I would think that if the Apple TV unit does indeed give the user access to the pre-DAC audio signal, the info on the Apple TV would of said so (I would think that would be a very large selling point)..........so I am going to go out on a limb here and say that yes the Apple TV unit seems like a very well thought out unit for the "average" person who is happy with the way the IPOD sounds using all the different types of audio files, giving them access to the different ways to connect the unit to their stereo, AV and video systems but for the "audiophile" looking the get the very best audio out of an IPOD this is where the Apple TV falls short and the Wadia is still the front runner...may not be the "cheapest" way but it is the "only" way for now anyway....but this is just my opinion..... one of many I am sure..........:smoke:

As a psuedo audiophile, I have been dragged into the ipod generation through a IPod nano as a gift.

My only concern in the long term is that the Ipod connection at the bottom will change and that some of the current generation ipod docks will not suit the future ipods.

This is a current problem now for some docks.

People betting on the itransport better hope that the Ipod keeps on dominating the mp3 market.

I went to the Apple web site and looked up the info on the Apple TV........I could not find any information on if the unit has the capability of accessing an IPOD's pre internal DAC data stream like the Wadia does...........I will say the unit does have alot of different types of outputs......(beside a set of analog RCA's all the different/current types of digital outputs....). But unless the Apple TV can gain access to the IPOD's pre-DAC audio signal, the Wadia is still the front runner for getting audiophile audio out of a IPOD by by passing the IPOD's internal DAC.....that is the main reason why some of us are taking a serious look at the Wadia..........maybe someone out there that has a connection of some sort to Apple that find that info out.....but I would think that if the Apple TV unit does indeed give the user access to the pre-DAC audio signal, the info on the Apple TV would of said so (I would think that would be a very large selling point)..........so I am going to go out on a limb here and say that yes the Apple TV unit seems like a very well thought out unit for the "average" person who is happy with the way the IPOD sounds using all the different types of audio files, giving them access to the different ways to connect the unit to their stereo, AV and video systems but for the "audiophile" looking the get the very best audio out of an IPOD this is where the Apple TV falls short and the Wadia is still the front runner...may not be the "cheapest" way but it is the "only" way for now anyway....but this is just my opinion..... one of many I am sure..........:smoke:

I am wondering why only Wadia has a product that can bypass the ipod's 0.30c dac? Apple invented the ipod so at the very least you would think that Apple would also have something available ie the ATV, that does the same thing. Does anyone know why not?:scratch2:

I di not think one would have to worry about Apple changing the 30 pin connector that is currently being used on most of the IPODs......they are to imbedded with all the companies that manufacture and sell all the accessories that use that connector..........

As for Apple spending money on a dock that bypasses the internal DAC like the Wadia does, the market for such a unit I would think is pretty small (audiophiles like us....) and their "bean counters" probably told them they would not make a profit on it...Apple is geared toward the market that is more interested in quanity instead of quality......but again this is just my opinion.............:music:

Yeah, I think someone in marketing @ Apple said, how do we get just as many big rig users out there to buy a $400.00 170i? Get Wadia to make it, and with there reputation for $10,000 + cd players etc we might attract the higher end folk, and for them if it is a simple trial on how to integrate their kids iPod into Dads hardcore set up (one example), in the living room, Apple had at least added that lot to their sales.

Yeah, I think someone in marketing @ Apple said, how do we get just as many big rig users out there to buy a $400.00 170i? Get Wadia to make it, and with there reputation for $10,000 + cd players etc we might attract the higher end folk, and for them if it is a simple trial on how to integrate their kids iPod into Dads hardcore set up (one example), in the living room, Apple had at least added that lot to their sales.

I see your point but I would think if "DAD" has a high end system he would not bother playing his kids IPOD with 128kbps MP3 files though his system.......just "his" IPOD with "wav" files............:D

I see your point but I would think if "DAD" has a high end system he would not bother playing his kids IPOD with 128kbps MP3 files though his system.......just "his" IPOD with "wav" files............:D

You're right, 128kbps yikes. I assumed two things in haste, her iPod at 128 and dad's rig might not have a decent dac or ext dac at all....

SoundHD: There is no IPOD involved with ATV so I am not following your comments about it accessing the IPODs pre-DAC audio signal. It is the "IPOD", except with an optical TOSLINK output. Does the Toslink output bypass the ATV's internal DAC? I would think so. Don't know for sure, and I've been wrong before, but why would a digital output go through a DAC first? Maybe somebody who knows can comment.