What's the fascination with vintage audio?

[OldEnough]

Hi all,

I am curious to know why people here are so fascinated with Vintage audio. I don't think it's just about the sound.

I'll start. As a 3 year old, I was fascinated by Dad's 500C, Dual Turntable and Viking open Reel Deck. Into my teenage years they all still sounded wonderful and I became a bit of an audio buff (Pioneer receiver, BIC T2 tape deck which was the first thing I bought with my own money, Technics turntable and Dad's Viking 88). Now, l am studying the basics as I switch from being a robot builder to a 500c restorer. When I'm done, I hope to get years of enjoyment and evoke happy memories from when Dad was still alive.

What's your story?

[jayk]

my favorite gear is from the '70s. why?

they sound good
they're built well
they look cool

i bought them when they were new and they weren't cheap.
not high-end, maybe mid-end.

[diamondsouled]

It's the smell of tubes as they heat up that is irresistible. We are olifactory critters after all.

Lar

[Bob E.]

For me, the appeal is that the technology is approachable in theoretical terms: I can envision that certain materials, when heated sufficiently, will release a cloud of electrons around themselves, and that those electrons will be accellerated towards a nearby positively-charged electrode. I can see in my imagination that, if an intermediary electrode has a different amount of charge, it can affect the flow of those electrons.

Solid materials that sometimes conduct electrons, depending on impurities in the material, and that can be convinced to conduct more in the presence of a small voltage impressed on a certain layer of the material? Not so easy for me to visualize...

--Bob

[dread31]

If you have to ask.....................................

Seriously, I have both vintage and modern. (As you can see in my signature.)
I have found that in order to get the same level of quality and performance from modern equipment, I must spend stupid amounts of money. The old stuff wasn't cheap when it was new either, but to my mind there was better value. $400 spent in 1978 got you a hell of a lot more (Quality wise) than it does today. I find that modern mainstream gear comes with a lot of bells and whistles, (that I never use), but very little in the way of build and sound quality. And when it does, the price is exorbitant.

Just my viewpoint,

Dave

[onepixel]

The reason why I like "some" of the vintage stuff whether it's audio, cars, furniture or anything else is because of the timeless aesthetics, function, quality, character and because it's got soul. Some of the new stuff is great too, but with vintage stuff you have 30+ years to choose from.

Welcome to AK.

:)

[Cut-Throat]

If you have to ask.....................................

Seriously, I have both vintage and modern. (As you can see in my signature.)
I have found that in order to get the same level of quality and performance from modern equipment, I must spend stupid amounts of money. The old stuff wasn't cheap when it was new either, but to my mind there was better value. $400 spent in 1978 got you a hell of a lot more (Quality wise) than it does today. I find that modern mainstream gear comes with a lot of bells and whistles, (that I never use), but very little in the way of build and sound quality. And when it does, the price is exorbitant.

Just my viewpoint,

Dave

$400 spent in 1978 is the inflation adjusted equivalent of $1258 today.

The Vintage stuff is very cool looking and the tube stuff with point to point wiring is very easy to work on and fix yourself.

And if I could get a 1963 Corvette Stingray for around $500, I'd have one of those too!

[MichaelJ]

For the same reasons I play a 1965 Ludwig Drum set. It's pretty, it sounds GREAT, it has a history (Onepixel called it SOUL), I had to put some sweat into it to get it up to snuff but it cost a grand or 2 less than something comparable if bought new. I've had drummers ask me about it during breaks. Not something that would happen with a new set.

[OldEnough]

For me, the appeal is that the technology is approachable in theoretical terms: I can envision that certain materials, when heated sufficiently, will release a cloud of electrons around themselves, and that those electrons will be accellerated towards a nearby positively-charged electrode. I can see in my imagination that, if an intermediary electrode has a different amount of charge, it can affect the flow of those electrons.

Solid materials that sometimes conduct electrons, depending on impurities in the material, and that can be convinced to conduct more in the presence of a small voltage impressed on a certain layer of the material? Not so easy for me to visualize...

--Bob

Hi Bob,

I also have a picture in my mind of electrons "boiling off" and being drawn toward the cathode. It's a new picture for me, but easily understandable. I think you have hit on something here ie. the joy that comes from understanding. I built my own CPU (not computer) a few years ago and I now have a (down to the) transistor level understanding which I enjoy.

I also think (as some others have mentioned) the ability to fix some of this equipment is quite satisfying.

Michael

[Impedance]

Something else that's worth mentioning is the music you're listening to.
If you're listening to an old Jazz record, say a Hank Mobley or Ike Quebec on Blue Note Records pressed in the 50s or early 60s, listening on a stereo from the era makes sense. If the stereo isn't exactly from the era, the technology is very similar, so a record from the 60s played on any thing we'd call "vintage," will have that warm, sweet analog sound that the original artists and producers planned on.

[starcycle]

sound + looks. plus sometimes less $, but not always. it's so much cooler looking than modern gear, imo, and usually seems to sound better for the same money spent.

strange as it might sound, a certain degree of environmentalism also plays into it for me. I don't want to contribute any more than necessary to the pollution in our environment, and not only does "recycling" old gear keep it in use and possibly out of landfills, but also is that much less plastic, heavy metals, petroleum, etc. produced, used and consumed. It's obviously not enough to make any actual difference, but I just feel better personally knowing wherever possible I'm not buying new mass produced goods, but old mass produced goods. :D well, in that case the labor "hit" has already been taken 30 years ago, so it's "free and clear" in that regard. ;)

:music:

[OldEnough]

Something else that's worth mentioning is the music you're listening to.
If you're listening to an old Jazz record, say a Hank Mobley or Ike Quebec on Blue Note Records pressed in the 50s or early 60s, listening on a stereo from the era makes sense. If the stereo isn't exactly from the era, the technology is very similar, so a record from the 60s played on any thing we'd call "vintage," will have that warm, sweet analog sound that the original artists and producers planned on.

This is an interesting point and one I hadn't thought about. I agree with you and I think your view is similar to my position regarding "colorized" movies. Black & White movies were meant to be viewed with the (B&W) technology of the day.

[NYListens]

Sound

[SigloOne]

One aspect that I really like about vintage gear is that with a couple cheap multimeters, a soldering station and some patience you can fix them yourself. Less crap in them to go wrong.

And you can build your own tube amp, which I plan to do this fall.

[ducati_EL34]

The sound is one reason, but not the only one. I enjoy working with and building tube amps. And while they may be "vintage", they are far from obsolete in producing a quality sounds.

I also prefer point to point wiring, as it makes modding easy, no circuit board traces to cut.

[Destructor]

How much would I have to spend to get the modern equivelent of my Mcintosh MX110, the build quality, looks and performance quality of a great preamp and tube tuner? Since buying it I have less than 900 into it including purchase price, tubes and other parts for a restoration. BTW it worked very well before restoration.

Scott 340B, paid 15 dollars for and put maybe another 150 at most for tubes, restoration parts and alignment.

I have other vintage gear, all in excellent physical and electrical condition with minor tweaks/restoration they all are excellent performers and are unique.

[Nirky]

I believe my very low-cost SE Magnavox amp more than holds it's own against most low to mid-priced contemporary ss & tube amps.

Quality per dollar (value) is hard to beat, unless perhaps you are capable of constructing your own.

[Sandy G]

Tube equipment is ALIVE-it pops 'n' cracks, puts off smells, groans sometimes, gets cranky-Sometimes its wants to work just right & sometimes it doesn't. Plus, vintage equipment is generally a delight to the eye & to the hands-Big, meaty knobs that have some heft to them & don't feel like you could wring 'em off if you turned too hard. Tube/Vintage equipment is typically housed in a real wooden case that gets nice & warm to the touch, and as nicely finished wood works, generally adds a touch of class to about any decor. When you compare a decent receiver from the glory days of the '70s to the BPC of today, it is lile comparing the difference between "Lightning" & "Lightning Bug"...

[Cut-Throat]

Sound

The sound is very good, but my modern day SET amps simply blow away my vintage tube gear. So that is not the primary reason for me. It is a matter of nostalgia and design for me.

Just as my example of a 63 Corvette. My current Lexus GS350 would smoke it in the quarter mile, would ride quieter, would corner better etc. etc. - But the 63 Vette would look very cool and bring back memories of California Dreaming and the Blondes of that era.

[SA-708]

On the other hand, it is much easier for an owner to work under the hood of a '63 Corvette than a late-model computer-controlled car.

[reggaenaut]

I do not like plastic and modern metal is very expensive.

[hhibrownsbac]

In my case its definitely Bang for the Buck! I would love to be able to afford a Brand New High End amplifier, BUT it would probably cost me 20 times or more then my Yamaha M-70 (20.00) and Soundcraftsmen RA-7501(40.00) and Sansui AU 517(20.00) did all together. Ill hang on to my cash and enjoy what I got.

[Cut-Throat]

In my case its definitely Bang for the Buck! I would love to be able to afford a Brand New High End amplifier, BUT it would probably cost me 20 times or more then my Yamaha M-70 (20.00) and Soundcraftsmen RA-7501(40.00) and Sansui AU 517(20.00) did all together. Ill hang on to my cash and enjoy what I got.

You can be frugal as you have shown, but I went all out on my Fisher 500B and have $1300 invested in it. More than my new 45 SET amps!:scratch2:

[Twenty20Man]

ok heres the real deal...WE are vintage..Squinting and some black piece of gear that has tiny lil lights and buttons that we cant read till we go find our reading glasses to find out what the hell we just did. noooo we like the big 70's receivers with knobs ans switches, the basic standard functions. big.... heavy....beautiful design.. form and function..

[Clmrt]

I'm just cheap.

[hhibrownsbac]

Bang for the buck is the case with my 500C also. I paid like 40 for it(pulled out of a console) and put maybe 200 into it and it sounds wonderful, i cant imagine what yours sounds like, it sounds sweet Ill bet. I would normally never put 240 into a reciever except that it was a Fisher 500C and it was in absolutely beautiful mint condition and played great to begin with. I figured I have saved enough over the years that a recapping would extend its life so WTF. Again though I couldnt even get a piece of shit in todays market that could ever compare to it for what I got into it.

[Cut-Throat]

Bang for the buck is the case with my 500C also. I paid like 40 for it(pulled out of a console) and put maybe 200 into it and it sounds wonderful, i cant imagine what yours sounds like, it sounds sweet Ill bet. I would normally never put 240 into a reciever except that it was a Fisher 500C and it was in absolutely beautiful mint condition and played great to begin with. I figured I have saved enough over the years that a recapping would extend its life so WTF. Again though I couldnt even get a piece of shit in todays market that could ever compare to it for what I got into it.

When you add the NOS tube compliment and Burl wood Bubinga Case, High end Caps, etc. etc. - I'll never get my money out of it, but I'm not worried as I am keeping it till I bite the dust.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Cutthroat-trout/Stereo%20Gear/Front-Top.jpg?t=1223687739

[hhibrownsbac]

When you add the NOS tube compliment and Burl wood Bubinga Case, High end Caps, etc. etc. - I'll never get my money out of it, but I'm not worried as I am keeping it till I bite the dust.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Cutthroat-trout/Stereo%20Gear/Front-Top.jpg?t=1223687739Now thats friggin nice!! I will probably get a new cabinet for mine after the holidays. I was actually looking at the same one. You pointed me to the site a couple months ago, at least i think it was you.

[shimniok]

Wow, that is gorgeous.

I think there is something really appealing about learning about the best of yesteryear and using a little knowledge to put together something that's classy, good, and yet fairly cheap. Whether that's my old Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my partly vintage stereo system, old military surplus rifles conscripted for hunting, or whatever else.

Michael

[donoghue]

When you add the NOS tube compliment and Burl wood Bubinga Case, High end Caps, etc. etc. - I'll never get my money out of it, but I'm not worried as I am keeping it till I bite the dust.

Burgundy & Gold, very nice! Answers the question also I think. Who wouldn't be proud to own a classy piece of audio history like that? I should get one of those Fishers some day.

[fdwrench]

I am not sure if it is the sound but when I listen to my Fisher 400 I take my hearing aids out and turn it up.
I also believe that soldering is good therapy.

[kirkleclaire]

8th grade home from school after losing my tonsils....5 records arrive from the Record Club of America... Led Zeppelin I, Led Zeppelin II (a one sided RL for those in the know) Best of Traffic, Eric Clapton ST, and Future Blues Canned Heat.....I tossed those slabs on our Fisher Executive....when my father got home I was relegated to my room and Zenith portable...never surrender and never forget.. Vintage? Had a day like that lately?
Cheers,
Kirk

[kirkleclaire]

In the above post "..never surrender", I was referring to the Fisher Exectutive......nothing political! sorry....
Kirk

[gogofast]

For me, the appeal is that the technology is approachable in theoretical terms: I can envision that certain materials, when heated sufficiently, will release a cloud of electrons around themselves, and that those electrons will be accellerated towards a nearby positively-charged electrode. I can see in my imagination that, if an intermediary electrode has a different amount of charge, it can affect the flow of those electrons.

Solid materials that sometimes conduct electrons, depending on impurities in the material, and that can be convinced to conduct more in the presence of a small voltage impressed on a certain layer of the material? Not so easy for me to visualize...

--Bob

hey bob,
that's a nice poem.

[marty59]

I can agree to the same posts above for my response! However, the new stuff you buy today has components that will face becoming obsolete, whereas tube gear is more generic in design, has proven itself over time and will continue to be around (and servicable) in the future!

[0luke1]

To my ears, nobody has improved on a Fischer 500c, MC240, MC30, or MX110.

Often new gear sounds like gear. When I listen to a good tube setup, I hear music.

[Cut-Throat]

To my ears, nobody has improved on a Fischer 500c, MC240, MC30, or MX110.

Often new gear sounds like gear. When I listen to a good tube setup, I hear music.

Don't confuse 'new gear' with solid state setups. There are tube amp manufacturers today that are building amplifiers that are superb and better than the old stuff. I prefer my new tube SET amps by a large margin over my vintage tube amps. And I have a Fisher 500B which is close to the 500C that you mentioned. I have also owned McIntosh MC30s as well. I built my SET amps from a kit. They are point to point wired, easy to work on and the sound is divine.:yes:

[lha1992]

I prefer the 70's gear. They sound and look way better than this plastic crap that my generation is from.

[Skligmund]

Because with vintage stuff, you actually have to know what you are doing. There is a feeling of accomplishment when you spend hourse adjusting, tuning and changing to get the sound you want. When you have your db meter and you spend much time making the frequency response graph at flat as you can. When you can go to the local stereo shop, and your stuff sounds better than 99% of their stuff, and they want 10 grand for theirs, and you got yours for $200 for the entire system. I love it.

[wkand]

Plus with point to point, you don't burn the PC board form the tube heat

[reggaenaut]

When you add the NOS tube compliment and Burl wood Bubinga Case, High end Caps, etc. etc. - I'll never get my money out of it, but I'm not worried as I am keeping it till I bite the dust.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Cutthroat-trout/Stereo%20Gear/Front-Top.jpg?t=1223687739

A GREAT PIECE OF AUDIO HISTORY. Congrats.

[0luke1]

Good point, Cut-Throat.

Note to self: I have to try an SET amp soon.

[Chazb11]

If you have to ask.....................................

Seriously, I have both vintage and modern. (As you can see in my signature.)
I have found that in order to get the same level of quality and performance from modern equipment, I must spend stupid amounts of money. The old stuff wasn't cheap when it was new either, but to my mind there was better value. $400 spent in 1978 got you a hell of a lot more (Quality wise) than it does today. I find that modern mainstream gear comes with a lot of bells and whistles, (that I never use), but very little in the way of build and sound quality. And when it does, the price is exorbitant.

Just my viewpoint,

Dave

I think the first line of Dave's post should be taken seriously. If you have to ask...you're not going to get it.
Most of the general population would not get our fascination with audio, period. Be it vintage or modern!

[Destructor]

Most of the parts which require replacement are still off the shelf after 40 years or can be improvised. There is also a certain character with vintage gear and I don't mean the sound of out of spec parts. There is also the novelty of using quality gear from yesteryear, and the smells of warm electronics. . . . .ummmmmmm.

[Dave C]

Played my tube amp and some Natalie Cole for my 90 yr old uncle tonight. You should have seen the look on his face!

[jaymanaa]

Played my tube amp and some Natalie Cole for my 90 yr old uncle tonight. You should have seen the look on his face!

Excellent! :thmbsp: