Hi!

Just curious if anyone has found that any model of any brand CLEANS records any better than any other model of any other brand? All other factors being equal and all other issues being neglected.

I guess my point is, if a $150 Nitty Gritty 1 makes a record, in the end, just as clean as a $500 VPI or a $2500 Loricraft, then I don't mind the trouble of manual application or loud noise, then there would be no real concern preventing me from saving quite a bit of money by buying the cheapest solution.

I was considering VPI for a while, but I read that the spindle can get dangerously hot (for vinyl...)

Thanks for reading, bye!

Hi!

Just curious if anyone has found that any model of any brand CLEANS records any better than any other model of any other brand? All other factors being equal and all other issues being neglected.

I guess my point is, if a $150 Nitty Gritty 1 makes a record, in the end, just as clean as a $500 VPI or a $2500 Loricraft, then I don't mind the trouble of manual application or loud noise, then there would be no real concern preventing me from saving quite a bit of money by buying the cheapest solution.

I was considering VPI for a while, but I read that the spindle can get dangerously hot (for vinyl...)

Thanks for reading, bye!

Hello,
Don't understand what you mean by "all other factors being equal"? One factor of course that cannot be equal, is the cost. Does any of the VPI RCM's clean as well as a $3400 TOTL Loricraft? In one word, no.
Totally different principals they possess on fluid removal.

I own a VPI 16.5, never owned any other, so I cannot fully explain from experience how the others fare, but I do have a very good general idea from doing enough homework, that there are plusses, and minuses with each.

Let's start with the Nitty Gritty. There's lots of fans of these machines, but I feel, thier claimed advantages of the vacuum process being aided by gravity is a false claim. They do no better than any other vacuum wand machine, such as the Clearaudio, VPI, in removal of Fluids. Quieter? I've heard thatthe NG machines, as well as machines as the Clearaudio Smart Matrix are no quieter than the VPI 16.5.

The NG machines downsides I fell, is no support platform (Platter) to assist with the scrubbing pressures involved when cleaning a record. Of course, one should not be scubbing like cleaning thier Whitewall Tires, but fact is an LP will bow when placed upon any of the NG Machines.

There is no case on the NG Machines, and one must first scrub the top side to clean with fluids, then flip the LP over to vacuum off fluids. In that process, fluids will spill all over the place. With the VPI 16.5, with its Box Cabinet, all fluid spills will remain inside the Cabinet, and not go all over the place. The fluids are applied, brushed, and removed from the top side of LP, no Flipping, until you are done with one side, and continue on to the other.

The one advantage with the NG, is a less likelihood of re-contamination of the cleaned side, since there is no platter that can possibly have contaminants on it.

Shortcomings of the VPI are yes, some people note a very warm spindle, with constant running of the Platter-Vaccum. A simple muffin fan installed on the rear of machine will rectify this. And a Rubber Self Adhesive Platter Mat, replacing the VPI Cork Mat, will be easier to clean, and keep clean in between LP sides.

The Machine is only 1/2 the battle. The quality of cleaning fluids, rinses, and the quality of Scrubbing Brushes-Brush Pads will also go a very long way, in insuring you are getting your records as clean as they possibly can be.

In a comparison with the Clearaudio Smart Matrix, versus the VPI 16.5, the Clearaudio might look a bit more attractive, with its Silver Finish, but from what I understand, it is only Painted MDF, it is not Steel.
Basically same principal, and I've heard just as loud as the 16.5. Yes, it might be a bit better in overall quality, and you'll pay for it.
Hope this helps, and of course, you'll hear other's opinions, but I think I've summed up most of the basics here. Mark

I have a Nitty Gritty Record Master (which is really a 1.0 with adapter) and a VPI 16.5. I have found that both "clean" the same, the difference is in automation. The NG is totally manual which means you have to turn the record while the vacuum is on. It is a total PITA if you have a large record collection! If you don't have a large collection and just getting started then I HIGHLY recommend it as it is cheaper than a VPI but if you do have a large collection then absolutely get a machine with some automation as you will be able to clean your records much faster and simpler. I agree with Markd51 about the brushes and fluids. I find that they are REALLY what matters.

HI,
I bought a VPI 16 (not the 16.5) when it first came on the market in the early 1980's. It was a revelation after having struggled many years with manual cleaning. A couple of years later I upgraded to the VPI 17. This is the one I still have and I am perfectly satisfied. I do not have personal experience with the other machines mentioned though I do have friends with the various Nitty Gritty models.

After about 30 years of RCM use, I have some opinions.

1. Most machines will clean adequately.
2. There is more to RCM's than cleaning ability. Speed, convenience, versatility, and record safety are important.

Speed and convenience are self-explanatory. If you have a large collection, a hard to use RCM gets old very quickly. The VPI 17 is fast and convenient.

Record safety needs explanation. Records are fragile. They are easily damaged by handling. RCM's that require the least amount of record handling are the safest for the records. The same idea applies to the tools used for cleaning. These include fluid bottles and brushes that are used in the vacinity of the record being cleaned. All it takes to damage a favorite record is to drop a brush on the record. Eventually, this will happen. It's happened to you, right? It happened to me before I got the VPI 17.

The VPI 17 is a semi-automatic RCM. It does not require manipulating brushes or bottles over the record. Consequently there is nothing to drop on the record. Since I have had the VPI 17 I have washed thousands of records. I have never damaged a single one.

RCM versatility? All they need to do is clean records, right? Well, not really, at least in my case. I am a enthusiastic user of Last record preservative. I never play a record unless it has first been treated with Last. I need a good way to apply Last. The VPI 17 is perfect for the task. The motor has plenty of torque to turn the record while applying Last. The horizontal platter is ideal. This is something a vertical style RCM can never do. Therefore, they are useless to me.

To finish, think about the things I have mentioned before you select your RCM. Notice I did not mention price. A good RCM will last a lifetime so the purchase price amortized over the years and number of records cleaned approches zero. You get what you pay for.

Sparky

Hi,

The VPI machines are fine for lightweight use. The motor runs hot in heavy use. If you clean a lot of records or are a professional user, the Loricraft is worth the extra money. Ingjerd and I used to own VPI cleaning machines but changed to Loricraft units after we had gone through 2 motors each in 6 months. No trouble out of our Loricraft cleaning machines after even very heavy use. Our records are coddled with a Loricraft RCM.

Hi,

The VPI machines are fine for lightweight use. The motor runs hot in heavy use. If you clean a lot of records or are a professional user, the Loricraft is worth the extra money. Ingjerd and I used to own VPI cleaning machines but changed to Loricraft units after we had gone through 2 motors each in 6 months. No trouble out of our Loricraft cleaning machines after even very heavy use. Our records are coddled with a Loricraft RCM.

I don't disagree with you Kent, the Loricraft is the finest machine available today. And I agree, the VPI 16.5, and the 17 has the shortcoming of no cooling fan. (But the 17F, and Typhoon do)

I'm a firm believer that these machines do need at least a small cooling fan, and "anything" IMO would be better than nothing, even if it was a little 2" fan, to help draw air from the machine, thus helping the motors run cooler, and live longer.

As Sparky (Karma) has mentioned, he likes using LAST Preservative, and in regards to this option, or for those who use a multi-step cleaning process, and/or rinses, read on.

A RCM, that has an application feature, such as many of the more expensive machines do, you will then perhaps find this feature, that you've paid dear money for, useless. They will be fine if you choose to use a one step cleaner, but that's about it.

With that being said, and needing to resort to manual application, and scrubbing, and then using a multi-step cleaning-preserving process, the Nitty Gritty, or VPI 16.5 will be just as good as it's more expensive company brothers (but of course, not a Loricraft).

I've read literal 100's of posts about the VPI 16.5, where some have never had a over-heating problem, and others who do, with hot Spindles, temporary record warpage noted, and my thoughts are this.....

VPI over the last so many years may have resorted to different vendors-companies for the motors, in that there might be some slight differences from where the two Motors were sourced from, dependent upon availability, and cost.

It's a simple, and relatively cheap upgrade to install a cooling fan if need be. I did, because the multi-step processes I use (AIVS 4-step) perhaps stress the machine. Again, I hope this helps clarify things. Mark

HI Mark,
I have read about over heating problems with the VPI 16.5. I guess a fan is a good idea.

But I have never heard of problems with the VPI 17. I certainly have never had problems with mine. Maybe it has to do with how the machine is used. I rarely clean more than 3 or 4 records in a session. I tend to wash records as they come off the shelf one at a time rather than in lots. So my 17 never has to run more than a few minutes for any given session. This may be the difference. Also, my VPI 17 was one of the first off the production line. Did VPI use different parts at the beginning? Maybe.

I have no plans to install a fan.

Sparky