I'm enjoying all of these threads on carts.

Remember back in the 80s how some cart manufacturers claimed VTF specs nearing 0.25 g? Are there any carts that can "practically" track that light, in every day home use? If so, how do they manage it without mistracking?

I do remember a couple claiming 0.75 grs. Never heard of any manufacturer claiming 0.25 grs.:dunno:

Are you sure you got your figures right?:scratch2:

Agreed. 0.25 grams sounds like mistracking territory for any cartridge that I'm familiar with. My Stanton 881S can track as low as 0.75 g, but I've never even considered setting it to track that low.

This was in a Radio Shack catalogue for their 1983 high-end cartridge (a Shure clone most certainly - something like RXT4 or RXT6). Even then it sounded to good to be true.

There were some Empires for which .5g was listed as the low end of the range.

I wonder if anyone ever tracked them that low, and in which tonearms?

Man, that is like at the edge of the envelope! I don't really see the reason for that. I think there is a big chance for mistracking when the tracking force gets that low. I think cartridges that track between 1.5 and 2 grams should be fine for most TTs.

If you plot a graph of stylus force versus high-frequency distortion, you find that as the stylus force plummets below 1.0 grams, most cartridges show a rise in HF distortion, and by about .75gm it's getting fairly harsh, gritty and unpleasant.

The standard procedure for adjusting stylus force on a turntable that has no index on the arm and where you have no external stylus force gauge . . . is to put on some violin music or a soprano female singer with a strong voice. As you reduce stylus force there will be point where the violin or singer will suddenly begin to sound simply awful. When you discover this point empirically, back off slightly by adding a little force.

Fred

* * * * *

Agree that too little force not only sounds awful but will damage your LPs what with the stylus slapping around in the groove.

I had a Pickering that would play anyting at .5

I'm enjoying all of these threads on carts.

Remember back in the 80s how some cart manufacturers claimed VTF specs nearing 0.25 g? Are there any carts that can "practically" track that light, in every day home use?

No. Not in professional use, either.

as Merrylander say's, too little tracking force and your records will be damaged. You need to apply enough tracking force to maintain stylus to groove wall contact. Most arms, I'd go with minimum recommended VTF + 0.25Gr

You made me pull out my books. The 0.25 gram cartridge maker is a mystery to me. In 1981, the lowest I see is the Denon DL-1000 at 0.7 – 0.9 g. There were quite a few at 1.0 and fewer at 0.75. Are any ultra-lights made today?

FYI- of course that is the recommended tracking force. In 1972, the Shure V15 Type II was tested and recommended at 0.7 grams, and the M91E at 0.9 g. In 1973, the V15 III was at 0.8 g. Later, for the safety of the records, all numbers were revised heavier. For instance, the Type III should be run at 1.1 g., the Type IV at 0.9 g., the M95ED at 1.2 g. We were at a point of splitting hairs for weight. YMMV dependent on the precision of the tonearm, condition of cartridge, and a good possibility of product variations.

Earlier, I had the V15 III running at 0.5 g. on my “S” shaped tonearm. Occasionally, it would be right on the edge of sibilance. I feel safer at 0.8 grams.

I have not seen a cartridge at 0.25 grams. Truly, a rare cartridge!

Many of the customers who come into my repair shop are tracking so heavy that they can play the other side of the record without having to turn it over!

Fred

LOL!!! You made my night.

I've seen it. And alignment? Just stick on a cartridge, make it look right, and bolt it down. Yeah, simple!


Uh, don't do that.

From my 1984 Stereo Buyer's Guide listing of cartridges, Elac had the STS555-E, which tracked at 0.5-1g. Empire had the 250E, which had a recommended tracking weight range of 0.5-2g. It was also their third cheapest from a range of eleven, so was hardly a topnotch model. There were three Goldring Excel cartridges, models ES70F, E and EX, which had specified tracking weights of 0.7-2g. There was a Grace cartridge, the F8C, tracking at 0.5-1.5g. Micro Acoustics had four cartridges (out of 6) which tracked between 0.7-1.4g. Pickering had the XV-15 1800S which tracked from 0.5-1.25g. Realistic had the R1000XT tracking from 0.7-1.5g. Shure had the SC39B, tracking at 0.5-3g.

And as already mentioned, the Denon DL-1000A tracked at 0.7-0.9g - it was their best ever MC cartridge, with a tubular boron cantilever and tiny coils producing only 0.12mV, for very low moving mass (0.077g) as seen by the stylus.

They were the lowest tracking weights I could find from the list of cartridges.

-Don

Hmmmm, I think Empire indeed had some models that were spec'd for even lower than 0.5 g (for the lower limit)... Should have been the 1000ZE/X and one of the 4000 models. But iirc, there also were a couple of Satins that went below 0.5 g... M8/M15 something?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

By golly, you're right. The 1000ZE/X could track as low as .25 grams! But, why anyone would want to is beyond me!

engaged in a low tracking force war that may have caused more damaged records than any other factor. i think it was 0.75 gr that was touted but its dangerous to try it.

mostly, 1.5 gr, the force recommended by pretty much ALL cart makerss is the best place to start and many times to finish. i once modified a rabco st4 tonearm and successfully went from 1.5 to 1.0 gr but you have to make sure your stylus doesnt mistrack.

the makers recommend 1.5 for elliptical and even more for line contact or so-called fine line or microridge shapes. they can take the additional force because of the added contact area.

Actually, if the cartridge were really able to track at, say, .25 grams, there would be no more, and theoretically less, damage caused to the grooves than at higher forces IF the arm allowed the cartridge to track at said low forces and that is the crux.

Most arms have far too much friction in the bearings to allow a cartridge to track at such a low force and, so, groove damage will result as the stylus bounces around in the groove being hampered by the arm itself.

Doug

is to do a tracking test either with a test record or steely dan's royal scam disc. cut 2 on either side have hegh energy cymbals that once can be tracked, allow the cart to track anything. i dont think that any less than 1.0 gr will be achieved.