Hey, so does anyone have experience with these tables? A neighbor of mine told me today that she has one of these (she didn't get the model number) along with a Marantz 2330b and a pair of monstrous Koss cm/1020s. I don't really have the space for the Koss and I already have a Marantz 1060 powering some Paradigm Titans, so I'm not sure what do. I do need a new turntable.

Hey, so does anyone have experience with these tables? A neighbor of mine told me today that she has one of these (she didn't get the model number) along with a Marantz 2330b and a pair of monstrous Koss cm/1020s. I don't really have the space for the Koss and I already have a Marantz 1060 powering some Paradigm Titans, so I'm not sure what do. I do need a new turntable.

Jump on that Marantz.

BUY IT ALL ! sell what you don`t want after christmas . when everybody has thieir holiday money to spend .

Supposedly the BIC needs a needle.

Grab that Marantz and the Koss, leave the BIC.

What model BIC are we talking about? Some were pretty decent.

I had a 980 and it was a very capable turntable. WAY better than it cost me. It was $30 on the bay and I put on a Grado blue ($80) and a nice cork mat. It was good to go. I would probably still have it if it had a better arm or the ability to upgrade the arm.

Don't sell a BIC short. They're pretty nice tables. As nice as those Duals that have such a big following. BIC's, other than the very bottom of their line, are highly underrated.

My 980 tuned up by Fred sounds sweet.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q227/shacky1973/IMGP0701.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q227/shacky1973/IMG_0658.jpg

Buy the whole works if you can get a good deal. The Marantz and the CM1020's in particular are good equipment.

My 980 tuned up by Fred sounds sweet.

You are making me miss mine. Maybe I need to buy one for a backup.

I picked up a BIC 960 at GW for 4.00. with a nice Shure cart and needle intact. It's not quite sure what it's supposed to do at the end of the record, and will usually drop the arm in the middle of the record and shut itself off.

Sound quality is actually really nice. and there is very little in the way of plastic crap. Seems like a nicely built table.

I picked up a BIC 960 at GW for 4.00. with a nice Shure cart and needle intact. It's not quite sure what it's supposed to do at the end of the record, and will usually drop the arm in the middle of the record and shut itself off.

Sound quality is actually really nice. and there is very little in the way of plastic crap. Seems like a nicely built table.

I would bet you a BIC 960 that Fred Longworth will chime in with the fix for that...

I have a 980 that I just love. I got it a couple of years ago, and after some basic cleaning it has been running like a top since. Quiet, sounds good, and if I am in the mood I can stack lps and 45s. Not what people want these days for sure, but I liked it so much I sold my Thorens. For me, the Bic is better.

The BIC 980 was my first table,They liked the Grado F1 and the white Sure of the time.
It did need a felt mat the hard rubber one was awfle.

I picked up a BIC 960 at GW for 4.00. with a nice Shure cart and needle intact. It's not quite sure what it's supposed to do at the end of the record, and will usually drop the arm in the middle of the record and shut itself off.

Sound quality is actually really nice. and there is very little in the way of plastic crap. Seems like a nicely built table.

I have a 980 that kind of did that after I accidentally bumped the tone arm. When I used the auto mode it would drop in the middle regardless of 45 or 33rpm selected. I opened the bottom and blindly shifted and probed the gears or something on the bottom. Something clicked into place. And when I powered it up it was fine again.

Not that I would recommend that. Just letting you know that the mechanism can probably be fixed.

Otherwise I actually seldom use the auto play anyway. I usually use manual mode to drop the tone arm down on the LP.

I have a 960 & 940 that i found on CL and they're 2 of my favorites. By now the platter bearing grease would be like glue so you would need to very carefully work the platter up, no easy task on both of mine but I eventually got them off. A good over all cleaning and re-lubing and a new belt will produce a very reliable tt. Mine sound great with no audible rumble. Great as a manual table or changer.:music:

I have a 1000 on my "little" system...great TT.

Any leads on a belt? I just broke mine while screwing around with the platter.

At least the arm returns to it's rest now. I moved the red gear by a notch.

LPGear (http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=B)

My first table, back in '78, was a 960. I wouldn't mind getting another one, if only for nostalgia's sake.

shacky, your music room looks so pleasant, with the potted plants and warm shadows!

To remove the stuck platter bearing on a BIC 920/940/960/980, the only 100% effective method is to use heat.

Do not use a hot-air heat gun -- this will damage the rubber mat. Instead, use a soldering gun of the 100w-200w type. Place the tip of the gun on the top edge of the stuck bushing and shaft. You will need to leave it on there for several minutes. Meanwhile, your helper takes two flat-bladed screw drivers and slides them under opposite sides of the platter.

While you heat the bearing assembly, your helper works the platter up and off.

Fred

* * * * *

Regarding the "sets down at the 45 position" problem.

This is due to the two sticky cam followers adjacent to the red cycling cam. These are about 5-6" long. They are mounted on the same pivot bearing. Two tension springs are used to return them to "neutral" position. The failure mode is that the pivot bearings get sticky so that the tension springs no longer can return the followers to neutral position.

To fix this you must disassemble the cam followers, and clean the pivot bearing with a thoroughness that boggles the mind. To take the followers off the shaft, you must remove the coathanger-type speed change linkage that goes over to the belt guide next to the motor pulley. And to remove the aforementioned linkage, you must remove the large aluminum plate that attaches to the the bottom of the tonearm with a 1/2"hexnut.

Usually, when the cam followers pivot bearing has been thoroughly cleaned, and you have relubed, the mechanism still won't work.

It is often necessary to polish the sliding surfaces with #1000 sandpaper or finer. I frequently find that ANY replacement lubricant other than light machine oil actually re-gums up the mechanism.

I nearly always find that the compression spring that fits on top of the two cam followers for "damping" needs to be replaced with a "softer" spring, or that the existing spring needs to be shortened.

The cam followers on this series of BIC's were poorly designed, and only barely worked when the machines were new. Thus the need for minor changes. You can use giant return springs, but be prepared for increased mechanism noise.

Fred

* * * * *

Any leads on a belt? I just broke mine while screwing around with the platter.

At least the arm returns to it's rest now. I moved the red gear by a notch.

South Street Service sells BIC gear and offers the original orange belt. Fred can probably get one for you also.

Thanks Fred. Hey, I just noticed that the spring is dangling from the pole that the stylus selector controls. Not really sure where it's supposed to connect - does it make much of a difference anyway?

The stylus selector (conical vs. elliptical) introduces a slight change in the anti-skate force, to compensate for the slightly different skate forces generated from the different "footprints" of the two geometries.

Maybe someone will post an exploded view of the base of the arm, to show where that spring attaches to.

Fred

Don't have a picture but it hooks onto a little hook on the inside bottom of the vertical (the one with the VTF and anti-skate markings on it) gimbal ring. It's black plastic.

Doug

I see where its supposed to go now. Thanks.

So I picked up for free today and it turned out to be a 1000 model. It looks pretty cool and I brought to a repair shop this afternoon to have them look it over and see if anything needed to be fixed. It'd be nice to get it restored. I have a feeling this could be a nice upgrade from my entry level Technics.

It didn't have a needle, so if the repairs don't cost too much can anyone here recommend a decent cart for this table?

I have a 1000...cool little table...esp.the elec cueing.I have an old grado on mine at the moment...but I have a spare ADC XLM that will probably end up on it. The arm is good enough for most carts. Good luck!

Nice, I'm a bit worried because I've been stuck with a p-mount for years and now with this table i'm going to learn how to adjust the arm and needle.

Did you get a guage with it? It's really pretty easy.

I have the original Shure M91ED on mine and it's outstanding.

So, the repair shop called this morning and said it would be about $100 bucks to fix it up. So I'm up in the air about it, I'm not sure if its worth it or if I should just save up for a new Technics 1200.

You got it for free, so you would be into it and up and running with a vintage BIC for $100. That is really not too shabby considering to replace it with anything off CL or Ebay would cost you a chunk of change. Then the lubing and cleaning work on top for any 30 odd year old turntable - either your time or someone else's for a fee. So on the one hand, good to go.

A 1200 would cost quite a bit more, although older units used would be just a bit higher than $100 typically. So on the other hand, if you want one of them, not so good to go with the BIC.

The problem you have to solve is that these two are apples and oranges in terms of style, type of drive, one is a straight DJ industrial strength pro table, the other is a vintage changer or automatic turntable for home use only. They really are both great "record players" but from completely different - yet great - design and basic vibe. Too subjective for me to call. You can always sell the BIC if you don't like it. But you may be delaying a decision you maybe already have made in wanting a Technics 1200.

I'd say do it! Anyone got a pic of the 1000? The 980 was my first exposure to a non-Technics table when I was little.

Cool, I think I'll do it. I just called the shop and told them to go ahead with the fixup. All I need now is a good choice of cart.

The BIC 980 was my first table,They liked the Grado F1 and the white Sure of the time.
It did need a felt mat the hard rubber one was awfle.

I have a friend that has a 980. I helped him put a new belt on it. I noticed that hard mat...what was BIC thinking? It is as hard as the keyboard I am typing on. My friend put little round stick-on felt pieces on top of the mat. I was not that impressed by the construction of the table. I am sure people here swear by theirs, but it seemed like a table that mounted to an "all in one" system to me. It still played records okay, but my friend said he had problems with it over the years. Hard to believe that it was their "top of the line"

I have had a Technics SL-D202 I bought new. It looks mint, and has never hiccuped. Sounds great with a Shure M111-HE stylus. I think you can't go wrong with Technics. A certain model (1200MkII ?) had a lift problem. I wish Technics had experimented more with different plinths. I like the ''real wood look " of some other brands.

I have a friend that has a 980. I helped him put a new belt on it. I noticed that hard mat...what was BIC thinking? It is as hard as the keyboard I am typing on. My friend put little round stick-on felt pieces on top of the mat. I was not that impressed by the construction of the table. I am sure people here swear by theirs, but it seemed like a table that mounted to an "all in one" system to me. It still played records okay, but my friend said he had problems with it over the years. Hard to believe that it was their "top of the line"

I have had a Technics SL-D202 I bought new. It looks mint, and has never hiccuped. Sounds great with a Shure M111-HE stylus. I think you can't go wrong with Technics. A certain model (1200MkII ?) had a lift problem. I wish Technics had experimented more with different plinths. I like the ''real wood look " of some other brands.

The BIC 980 was nothing to look at for sure,and the tone arm is unimpressive as well.I can't think of 1 single reason why that old table should have sounded as good as it did but it did...
For what ever reason I still don't understand they didn't rumble,howl,or add any thing it shouldnt have.The geomitry of the arm and table where right and with a good MM cartrage they sounded very good.A real suprise to most of my freinds during the 80's when Pioneer,Technics DD,and Thorns where the most popular on my block.

I have a friend that has a 980. I helped him put a new belt on it. I noticed that hard mat...what was BIC thinking? It is as hard as the keyboard I am typing on. My friend put little round stick-on felt pieces on top of the mat. I was not that impressed by the construction of the table. I am sure people here swear by theirs, but it seemed like a table that mounted to an "all in one" system to me. It still played records okay, but my friend said he had problems with it over the years. Hard to believe that it was their "top of the line"

I have had a Technics SL-D202 I bought new. It looks mint, and has never hiccuped. Sounds great with a Shure M111-HE stylus. I think you can't go wrong with Technics. A certain model (1200MkII ?) had a lift problem. I wish Technics had experimented more with different plinths. I like the ''real wood look " of some other brands.
Well, the 980 was near TOTL. Actually the BIC 1000 was the TOTL. I agree, the M111HE is a great cartridge. And the lift problem was with the 13/14/1500MK2.

Well, the 980 was near TOTL. Actually the BIC 1000 was the TOTL. I agree, the M111HE is a great cartridge. And the lift problem was with the 13/14/1500MK2.

Hakapan knows more about vintage TT's than anyone I know.
Mabey you know why the BIC 980 sounded so good.

Hakapan knows more about vintage TT's than anyone I know.
Mabey you know why the BIC 980 sounded so good.
That's kind, thank you, but the only reason I knew that is because I owned one. :D Doug G. knows lots more about BICS than I do, and I'm sure he has a much better idea of why they sound so good.

That's kind, thank you, but the only reason I knew that is because I owned one. :D Doug G. knows lots more about BICS than I do, and I'm sure he has a much better idea of why they sound so good.
Whats odd is how some of the better sounding old Thorns looked well... not so steller but very musical.Much like the BIC.

Hi all,
At present i own a pioneer PL 516X and have been told on this forum it's not a bad turntable, however i am able to pick up a fully serviced BIC 960. How deos the bic compare to the pioneer? I have no idea on the performance of turntables as i have only been playing CD's for the last 20 years. i have been looking on ebay for a table but i dont really know what i am looking at LOL.

(Based in Australia) so have less to choose from, such is life.

Regards:
Handtsteel

Always defending BIC, just a reminder that they were the first to produce belt drive changers...although they actually marketed them as 'multiple play manual turntables" or something like that. I had a 980 years ago that replaced two gawd awful garrards that never did work and it was great. When I ran across a 1000 a few months ago, I pounced on it. It's a very cool TT, with a seperate motor for the arm movement, and cool electronic cueing. I used pretty high compliance carts on them with no problem, so the arm seems more than good enough. While they were not super high end TTs...they were FAR better than anything Garrard or Miracord or BSR etc was making at the time and IMO at least on par with the Duals of the era.

Hi all,
At present i own a pioneer PL 516X and have been told on this forum it's not a bad turntable, however i am able to pick up a fully serviced BIC 960. How deos the bic compare to the pioneer? I have no idea on the performance of turntables as i have only been playing CD's for the last 20 years. i have been looking on ebay for a table but i dont really know what i am looking at LOL.

(Based in Australia) so have less to choose from, such is life.

Regards:
Handtsteel

The old Bic 960 is a plesant suprise,a solid table with good geomitry.If you close your eyes and don't look at it youd sware it was an expencive table playing.

Can some one post a picture of a Bic 1000?

Heres one from google.

http://www.audiospecialist.com/SaleItems/Images/BIC100nocover.jpg

Thanks Bumpy I never saw the 1000 before.

No problem, I just hope its a nice upgrade from my seven year old Technics SL-BD20

Thank you for the kind words Howard.

The reason I know what I know about BICs is that I've had a 980 since 1976 and several other models since.

Some of you other guys have made some very good remarks too.

The 1000 is, in my opinion, the best one they ever made although the 980 and 960 are both practically it's equal in performance. It's just that it's cool to have separate motors for the platter and the auto mechanism and the electronic cueing.

Unfortunately, the market, shortly after the 900 series were released, demanded that turntables look like the Japanese monolith types and BIC added plastic housings to the basic mechanism and this, of course, added resonance. Not that the "Z" series or the "VIA" series are bad, it's just that they aren't as quiet, in my opinion, as the 900s.

The key to a musical turntable is its ability to revolve the record at a constant speed and not add any noises of its own, including resonance. The engineers that designed the BICs accomplished this.

Doug

Well, the 980 was near TOTL. Actually the BIC 1000 was the TOTL. I agree, the M111HE is a great cartridge. And the lift problem was with the 13/14/1500MK2.

Thanks hakaplan for the info. I did not realize there was a BIC 1000. I did not come across many retailers that sold BIC turntables.The second pair of speakers I owned were BIC. I can't remember the model number, but I remember they were 3-way, and had a separate (buss type) fuse for each driver. They clipped into the back by the wire spring clips. I want to say model 44 , but that may not be right. I sold them to a guy who hooked them up to a 300 watt amp. He blew all the fuses, then wrapped tin foil around them. He melted the voice coils or something. The cones would not move in and out. He then had the nerve to ask for his money back. I looked at the foil and said "yeah right":no:

So, what would be a good cart for this bad boy? I have a budget of about $100.

So, what would be a good cart for this bad boy? I have a budget of about $100.

My 980 came with Shure M91ED which I highly recommend. I'm now playing an Ortofon I picked up and upgraded stylus to F/FF elyptical. I like it even better than the Shure.

I'd think any Shure or Ortofon would sound very nice on your 1000.

Yeah, I like the looks of the Ortofon 2M.

looking closer mine was a 960 belt drive.
I have better gear now but still you miss an old freind you have spent 1000's of hours listening to.

Yeah, I like the looks of the Ortofon 2M.

Is that the sexy new red one?

Yup, the red one.

Yup, the red one.

That's gorgeous cart. Gotta hand it to those Danes. They really know style. :yes: Course my wife is 1/2 Danish so I may have to show her this post :D

And from what I read, they should sound pretty good for an entry level.

So, I picked up my 1000 from the repair shop today. For $116 it was completely overhauled, new motor, new belt, cleaned up etc. Much to my surprise there was cartridge on it, I didn't remember noticing it before I dropped it off. Anyway its a Shure 681EEE cart and the shop said it was still in good shape and didn't think I needed a new one right away and that I'd be good to just plug it in and play.

I did and it sounds great. A very nice upgrade from my older table. But, before I really start to log some hours on this table I just want to make sure all the adjustments are good. I didn't touch the arm, anti skate, or tracking force and right now it seems to be dialed in at about 1.75. Now, on needle doctor under the specs for the 681EEE it says .75 to 1.5 grams for tracking force.

So I guess my question is, is it better to go low or high with the force? And should the anti skate be the same as the tracking force?

thanks.

ps- i hope to have some pics up soon.

"Shure" that's not a Stanton cart? I'm not a 681EEE expert but in general little too high better than too low. Lot's of 681EEE fans here so you should get more info soon.

I'd set TF to 1.5 and listen....if it's good, try 1.25...if all is still good, you could try 1 gram...although I'd probably stay at 1.25. Too light is no good. Set anti skate the same.

Congrats...great TT!

Yeah, it is a stanton cart. My mistake.

My father actually just pulled out an old BIC from his closet. He said the motor may be going out, or the belt needs replacing.

I am going to help him fix it, it should be interesting.

Does anyone have a manual for a 1000. I'm having some trouble understanding the auto drop feature. I don't need it and I have the single play spindle. What do the program selector numbers mean? Oh, and when a side is over the arm returns and then goes back ready to drop.

I hope that made sense.

Program slector - I'm assuming you mean the slider that says Man, 1, 2, 3, 4... - is for multiple play eaither when using the stacking spindle or playing a single ablum multiple times.

If you have it on 1 or manual, after play it whould return to rest and stop the TT. If it doesn't something is amiss with the auto mechanism. That may not be something a generic shop would know how to fix.

Well, here are some photos.

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1943/246/108/145000048/n145000048_30082108_4961.jpg
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1943/246/108/145000048/n145000048_30082109_5677.jpg
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1943/246/108/145000048/n145000048_30082106_3463.jpg
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1943/246/108/145000048/n145000048_30082107_4190.jpg

When stacking records use that close pin attachment at the rear left to hold the albums in place and then place the index shift lever on how ever many albums that you have stacked, works like a charm.:thmbsp:

Bumpy,

I will write more tomorrow but for starters, the top of the cartridge headshell should be level with the record surface. It's tilted way too forward now. You adjust it by loosening the locknut and turning the eccentric screw in the headshell.

1.5 grams is just right for the Stanton 681EEE.

The numbers 1 through 6 refer to the number of records you have on the auto spindle. You set this control to the number of records you have on there and it will play all of them and then shut off when you press the cycle button.

Set it to 1 to play just one record and have it shut off. Set it to man. to play one record by setting the stylus on the record yourself and then it will return the arm to the rest at the end and shut off.

Oh yeah, secure the records with the clamp at the left rear as markl said.

Doug

yikes....the VTA on that is scary!

Aren't those Stantons with the brush like the old Pickerings...you have to set the TF higher to compensate?

Yes. After you balance the arm with the cartridge (with brush) in place, you set the VTF dial 1 gram higher than you normally would for the cartridge alone. Thus, to have the cartridge track at 1.5 grams, you would set the dial to 2.5 grams.

I have been thinking about this lately though and wonder if this is really true. Since the brush is on its own pivot, would it really put an upward force on the cartridge/stylus? I could see it would work that way if the brush were mounted securely to the stylus housing but with a pivot on there...?

Prolly is true though since a Stanton or Pickering cartridge doesn't track too well if you set the VTF to 1.5 grams with the brush there.

EDIT: Also, above I said the top of the headshell on the BIC should be level with the record surface which is an OK way to put it I guess although parallel is a more accurate term \:^)

EDIT II: That repair shop obviously was NOT familiar with BICs (the headshell angle thing).

Doug

There's always something!

I forgot to specify that the top of the headshell should be parallel with the record surface with the stylus resting on the record surface. Duh!

Doug

I've had a BIC 980 for about 2 years now. best 35 bucks I've ever spent. The speed is steady as a rock.
Just went through it and cleaned and lubed all the guts and re-gooped the cueing mechanism.
The whole thing works perfectly now. It has an Audio Technica pro11 cartridge with brand new at11e stylus which I spent a fair amount of time setting up with a protractor. Sounds fantastic even with my budget cartridge!
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if I come across one.
Many parts can still be had. try (turntableexperts.com) there others out there as well. I'd say go for it.

Good luck

Taylor

How DO you recharge the cueing on a 1000? Mine drops a little fast.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q227/shacky1973/IMG_0658.jpg

Nice-looking rig, man. What's that piece of gear to the left of the TT?

Does anyone have a manual for a 1000. I'm having some trouble understanding the auto drop feature. I don't need it and I have the single play spindle. What do the program selector numbers mean? Oh, and when a side is over the arm returns and then goes back ready to drop.

I hope that made sense.

Hey man, good to see another RM-AK crossover. FOr the manual, did you check out vinyleninge.com?

Nice-looking rig, man. What's that piece of gear to the left of the TT?

McIntosh C29 Preamp. Alas I've sold it. Spent a little too much on audio in December and had to cash it out. Beautiful phon section that will surely be missed :tears:

Over the weekend I picked up a few turntables from the local Free/Recycle board, and a complete and not too beat BIC 920 was in the lot. The 920 is a lot less sophisticated than the 980, but it seems to be cleaning up nice, and needs a belt. The funny thing is I would swear the tonearm is a Philips 212/312 type, albeit with a bargain bin headshell. Anyone else got one and notice the similarity?

I think I screwed up big time, I futzed around with the rear of the arm and now I'm afraid I screwed everything up as I saw an earlier post of that said its better to adjust the headshell than mess with the rear of the arm on these BICs.

**edit**
I made the necessary adjustments and all is well with the 1000...for now.