Title says it all... want to install front wheel disc brakes (keep the back as drums) plus a two chamber master brake cylinder!

I'm sure this can be done, right?

The Parisienne is the Canadian equivalent of the Bonneville, built on a Chevy frame with a Chevy engine.

What can I do? What parts will fit? Help!

look at the chevy chassis the Pontiac was built on, most likely a Biscayne or Impala.
If disc brakes were available for that model, they will fit your car. You may need the spindles from the chevy, best bet is to get the whole assembly, then order some rebuilt calipers.

Yes it can be done. the frames are the same. A good set of brake shoes (drum) and set up right are almost as good (and can be better) than a standard disk set up and much cheaper.

Sorry but it is time for bed. I can help ya out more tomorrow.:smoke:

There are lots of upgrade parts for these cars, including rack and pinion steering. Doing this is called a restomod. Horsepower tv on Spike and Speed does them and there on the Powerblock series. Check the Spike and Speed channel web sites for links.

Since I'm from Oakville, I remember these cars. Probably made in Oshawa.

A good set of brake shoes (drum) and set up right are almost as good (and can be better) than a standard disk set up and much cheaper.

My Dad had a 1957 Buick Special for a long time that had excellent drum brakes (non power or vacuum assist). Everyone who drove it (my uncle, etc.) were amazed at the braking power (I was waaay too young to drive it, of course.)

Hmmmm..... :scratch2: I just want to be able to stop as fast (or almost as fast!) as all these modern cars - it can get scary if you need 100 feet to stop and the goof in front of you, talking on his cell 'phone and sipping coffee with the other hand suddenly notices the street he wanted to turn into!

I wounder if something off a Vet or Camaro front end will work ?
Street Rods do Mods all the time but I'm a Type one VW guy , sorry not more help....



Barney

Best thing to do and the cheapest in the long run allthough it won`t be up front look up Stainless stell brakes they have kits to convert the whole system. Quality stuff. If you`ve got a Great connection at a parts store that still has catalogs you Can cross reference to find stuff that will fit, However you have to be Very careful of the correct porpotioning valve to get the braking bias front to rear correct(not an easy task) thats why I recommended SSbrakes. Right the first time!

Having seen this beautiful car in the flesh, I have to say:

:worthless

I had drum brakes on my 1968 Firebird.

If it rained, the passenger side, being closest to the street roll-off water, would reduce it's braking ability drastically.



I understand your concern.



But there were some heavy duty drum kits for lots of these old GMs that worked much better.



Good luck!

HAHA been there done that..
Got a '65 pontiac GTO in the garage that does 0-60 in about mid 5's but does 60-0 in about 2 minutes.
I always hate to risk this great car by driving it more than about twice a year just because the acceleration is so nice , it almost makes you forget that it handles like SHIT enough to be dangerous..
Beautiful car, runs great, sounds great, stops like fred flintstones ride.
Car is too valuable in it's all original condition to even consider a mod to the braking system though.
luck,
Tal

Got a '65 pontiac GTO in the garage that does 0-60 in about mid 5's but does 60-0 in about 2 minutes...

...

Car is too valuable in it's all original condition to even consider a mod to the braking system though.

Agreed - that's a beautiful, cool car.... mine is just an 'average' family car. With no seat belts....

Having seen this beautiful car in the flesh, I have to say:

:worthless

Ooops! Must not start a worthless thread! :D

HAHA been there done that..
Got a '65 pontiac GTO in the garage that does 0-60 in about mid 5's but does 60-0 in about 2 minutes.
I always hate to risk this great car by driving it more than about twice a year just because the acceleration is so nice , it almost makes you forget that it handles like SHIT enough to be dangerous..
Beautiful car, runs great, sounds great, stops like fred flintstones ride.
Car is too valuable in it's all original condition to even consider a mod to the braking system though.
luck,
Tal

In your case it would be very easy. Having owned 2 65 GTO's and my 65 Wagon upgrading the brakes without degrading the value is a piece of cake.

By your comments I take it you have the manual brakes and manual steering?
My 72 GTO has manual steering and I have thought about converting it to power. And for GaryP just go to the PY forums. Everything you could ever want will be there. It has become THE Pontiac board. http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/

Look for a "donor" '63 or '64 Grand Prix or Catalina w/ the nascar brake option, they have the big exposed alluminum brake drums with 8 lug nut around the outside to hold the wheel on and 5 more under the center cap for the drum. I had a '64 GP w/ EVERY option including a 421 HO w/3 duces and the it would stop as good as it would go, can't believe I traded it on a '68 Firebird 400/

Ooops! Must not start a worthless thread! :D

Beautiful car!

It has become THE Pontiac board. http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/

Excellent - I searched the internet and only came up with dead boards.... thanks! Just what I was looking for!

cool car!

I THINK that car still had the "X" frame GM introduced on its cars in the late '50s to lower body heights-but they went back to a standard perimeter frame on the full size car line in 1965. The only reason I mention this is that the "X" frame's front end might not be readily adaptable for a retrofit of discs as the perimeter frame's was.The perimeter frame served them until the end of the "traditional" big cars in 1976.

Nice looking Pontiac! If I remember correctly, the X-frame lasted from '58-'64, while the first year for front discs was '67, and the Pontiac did have those interesting and cool looking 8-lug aluminum wheels with the larger aluminum drums as early as '60. I've never really felt that drums set up properly performed significantly worse than discs, I'd try bleeding the system and making sure the self-adjusters are working properly before going into any serious modifications.

I'd try bleeding the system and making sure the self-adjusters are working properly before going into any serious modifications.

Is that about all there is to making sure the drums are set up properly?

My cousin had all drum brakes once - she was told to put 'er in reverse, accelerate and hit the brakes! They adjusted nicely and she never hand any more problems...

Perhaps, at the very least. I should get a 2 reservoir master cylinder (with all the attendant tubing, of course.) Does that make any sense?

10-4 the dual reservoir! If you're gonna go that far it's probably worth it to have the drums turned (or replaced if necessary), and put a new kit on each wheel (new springs, adjusters, wheel cylinders, etc...). If the drums still have life in them, you're only about $100 to $150 in parts away from having a "brand new" brake system; and I'll heartily agree with those who've already mentioned how well good, fresh drums brakes work.

Ok, I think that'll be in my future (spring, when the snow melts, of course!)

I know the pads are almost new, dunno about the drums!

Thanks, all! :)

My cousin had all drum brakes once - she was told to put 'er in reverse, accelerate and hit the brakes! They adjusted nicely and she never hand any more problems...

As the pads wear down there would be more and more space created inbetween the pads and the drums, if it weren't for the self adjusters which push the pads apart at the bottom to take up the slack. They only turn and tighten up on the drums when you hit the brakes when the car is going backwards. But sometimes they get stuck and that is the cause of having alot of 'swing' on the pedal before the pads actually come into contact with the drums.

If you can find a dual pot master cylinder that will fit, I'd think about it. The benefit of these isn't that the car will stop any faster, but that if you loose pressure in the line somewhere, you'll either still have just front or rear breaks depending on which part of the system the leak is in. That happened to me on my '72 Impala once, and I was still able to drive home on just the front brakes.

Oh, and when you do your brake job, don't take the brakes on all 4 wheels apart at once, do one wheel at a time, that way you always can look at another wheel as a reference to see how everything goes back together.

My 72 jeep sits on tires weighting twice what the stockers were. With the optional 11 inch power brake drums all the way around it stops ok. I would not call it stellar but it gets the job done. On the other hand my 72 chevelle drums are wimpy at best.

New parts all the way around make a huge difference.

I remember the 37 Ford Tudor my parents had. Took it to the local mechanic to get the brakes done. Other Ford owners would be surprised at how well they stopped the car. No master cylinder, these were all cable operated drum brakes. A lot lighter car than some of the behemoths of the late 60s and 70s.

Henry didn't believe in hydraulic brakes, & kept his antiquated cable activated system a lot longer than anyone else did. IIRC, Ford finally bowed to the inevitable & put hydraulics in their cars in 1939 or '40...Fords of that era were a curious combination of the "leading-edge"-the V-8, for instance-, & the hopelessly obsolete.

OK Gary I`ll say it again try www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com ! Don`t mess around with your brakes these guy`s should have everything you need to begin with and it will fit and Work!! I hvae no affiliation with this compny! I have done litterly hundreds of these comversions over the last 3 decades and you have to do it right the first time It`s your life and the lives of anyone else who rides in the car. Sorry for the rant I just get a litte nuts about safety in your vintage car!! I have seen too many crashes and deaths due to not having done this correctly.

OK Gary I`ll say it again try www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com ! Don`t mess around with your brakes

.....

Sorry for the rant I just get a litte nuts about safety in your vintage car!! I have seen too many crashes and deaths due to not having done this correctly.

Rant on! :) I really appreciate your advice!!!

Ok, then... what are the advantages? Brake lines that'll last "forever"? Or do they improve the braking power? I'm going to check out that link...

The car does not have any seatbelts.... gonna install lap belts, too!

And I'll have the brakes done by someone that knows what they are doing...

Rant on! :) I really appreciate your advice!!!

Ok, then... what are the advantages? Brake lines that'll last "forever"? Or do they improve the braking power? I'm going to check out that link...

The car does not have any seatbelts.... gonna install lap belts, too!

And I'll have the brakes done by someone that knows what they are doing...

There are things (and linings) that will improve your braking immensely. Converting to a dual MC is a piece of mind thing but will require new lines. For some of the older cars I would recommend new lines, good shoes and a good rebuild. The GTO has disks up front and I am adding a better pad since they are toast after a couple of hard stops.

@@@

Gary: The nice thing about SS brakes is that they usually can givce you a complete kit from front to rear that will include all needed parts that work Correctly together! And yes if you change over to disc`s it will improve braking Drastically.

Whatever you do, do not use copper tubing for brake lines. Copper will crystalize over time and simply blow out - just when you need the brakes the most. The ends of brake lines also take a double flare.

Another thing to consider is your wheel size.
If you want to keep your stock wheels, make sure you don't get discs that are too large.
Do you have a single or dual master cylinder?

Stock wheels (and I want to keep it that way) but I have a single master cylinder - I want to make it a double for piece of mind!

Don`t mess around with your brakes ....

Just to finalize this thread, the car now has disc brakes on the front, all new SS tubing and a massive master cylinder. I thought "why screw around with something important like the brakes?" so I had it all installed professionally. Took the guy a few weeks to consult with some California companies and figure out what would fit!! Even then it took even more weeks to custom install the front wheel disc brakes and make them work properly as they still didn't quite fit!

The car has an X frame and is pretty rare so it had to be a custom job. Most people don't even have a listing for my Canadian made car. Darn things stops really, really well. I'm happy about that!

Thanks for all your help everyone!!!

Cool :)

Hey I am in the same situation with my recent purchase of a 1956 buick special,I have done several conversions in the past on trucks that cost well over $1000. just sold a 1950 pontiac that I never converted,here is what I have learned in the last few,there is a few companys like scarebird brakes that sell conversion brackets for front disk and use readily available brakes you can get at the parts store ,cost around $400 to convert and requires some know how,If you stay with drum brakes ,some say only use bendix brand with riveted shoes,there are some recent performance friction shoes that are available ,that some have had great results with I have not located where to find them yet ,there is another conversion bracket company called disc brake mikey,also requires possible welding of brackets, Most of these older cars require they old fashioned brake adjustments, jack up wheel and use adjuster tool to set brakes all the way around ,test drive and recheck for dragging etc. hope this helps

Buick Special! Nice car! Any pictures?

Dad had one... a 1957! :)

Just have pic from sale ad for now,let see if this works for upload.

A tad small but still nice! Dad's was a darker red, white bottom. I don't remember what colour the roof was.

Thanks!

You must not live in the snow belt. :D The white would be a nice rust brown!!!

Sorry about pic , found car in collection in northern minnesota ,came from oklahoma so it is pretty solid , tahiti coral and white are the colors with black and white interior. still has original spare tire with a set of tire chains and jack in trunk.

Wow - great find!

Thanks for updating this thread. This is good info that may come in handy if/when I upgrade the braking system on my truck.

I have converted a 64 chev shortbox and a 67 chevy shortbox and have used early classic enterprises in california ,they specialize in trucks of that vintage and have complete kits ,they are spendy and until recently these other companies were not available for the lower cost options ,if you want a high quality complete conversion with excellant results and good tech assistance I reccomend early classic for trucks.

Maybe we should change the name of the thread to something like

Upgrading brakes on vintage vehicles

I'll send a request to The Powers That Be.

:D

Which parts are Stainless?

The drums/rotors?

???




The lines ??



Barney

I'm in the process of restoring/restomodding my 1948 Willys CJ-2A Universal "Jeep" they came with dual pivot 9" brakes with a single resevour master clyinder. Almost impossible to properly arc the shoes to the drums once the drums wear a little. And even at say 2500Lbs for the little jeep the brakes totally suck. I has a drive shaft mounted E brake that when new was totally worthless.

I'm in the process of putting 11" Drum brakes from a 5000lb mid to lat 60's Kaiser made Wagoneer. Dual master cylinder, adjustable proporitioning valve, Rear brake mounted E brake. I can buy everything but the backing plates NEW those I have to scare up.

I got super lucky and found a guy in Ohio that had a whole front Axle setup with the New brakes he wanted to sell with no takers (shipping on a complete front jeep axle is KILLER) So I offered him the asking price if he would pull the brakes and send them to me. He shipped me the Brakes Hubs and the Spindles. So I have basically complete replacements for both front corners.

Now to find them rear brake backing pads.

My dad once owned, from new, a one-off '56 that had been ordered by an engineer at the Flint plant but never delivered. The one car he'd like to have back.

The lines ??



Barney

Gotta be the lines. High pressure brakes.... lines rot out because they're under the car - salt, corrosion, etc. And if we're talking vintage brakes that are 30 years old.... it could get dicey! :D

Very nice, any interior/motor shots?