Has todays music lost its meaning, lost its feeling?

When I ask myself what Vinyl am I missing from my collection, i can think of plenty of albums to
get. When i ask myself what am i missing from my mp3/wav collection, i couldnt tell you. I have everything to my hearts desire.
Even though i have everything in digital format that should make me content, would i rather give up
my record collection, or my digital collection?

I would rather keep my vinyl, of course.

Has the internet, the mp3 generation diluted the feeling of music? You can sit at your computer right now
and find pretty much any album you desire in digital format. If you can't find it now, you keep searching and
you will. If it is so easy to find the music you want, then there is no work, or journey to get your album. If you
dont work at getting the music you want, then does the emotion towards that music become obsolete?

Take one album for example. Slayer - Unsiputed Attitude. I have this album on the original cassette when it was released back
in 1996, and i have an mp3 @ 320kbps. When I listen to the mp3, i feel like their is something missing. What the hell? It sounds WAY
better, i can actually make Tom Arayas lyrics out, and hear the cymbals crystal clear. When I listen to the cassette, as dirty as it is,
the case is cracked all to hell, the inner pamphlet is tore all to hell, and i have a concert ticket inside from when i saw them. I can
actually feel the music, i can think back to when i moved out of dads house in my '69 VW bug with nothing but my fishing pole and $300
and went to the Bay Area because I wanted some tight poon-tan. Why doesnt my mp3 give me the same feeling?

My father, 53 now, has about 300+ albums thats he has collected over the years. Most from the 1960's - the early 1980's, classic rock.
To keep up with the times he now has an iPod, he still stares at it blankly often, but thats besides the point. I try and tell
him that i will get all of that music for him, "you gotta hear mp3, dad, its AMAZING!!!", But he doesnt listen.
He doesn't like what he considers "stealing music" from the internet. But he doesnt want to buy all of those abums all over again.
So he is converting all of his old vinyl to mp3 format, one record at a time. at first i thought this was stupid, but after some consideration
I understand why he is doing this....there are memories attached to these albums that digital format doesnt have. (even though it is
digital driven vinyl. hahaa)


Todays youth is spoiled?
I am more concerned now about todays youth and the direction that they will take the music industry. 99% of todays kids prefers
the mp3 format over any other. You have the internet, where every garage band with a 56k connection can get there music out there, give it to
other people, and pretty much promote in ways any band would have killed for just 13 years ago. With music so widely spread (which in a way, is a blessing)
and anyone can have access to anything they want. Has music become diluted? Its like getting to much of something really good, and its not so
good anymore. I suppose that kids will get nostalgia from music, gain memories and attach it to certain songs just like i have. Will they
attach their youth with the mp3 format and go with it untill another medium comes out and they end up returing to mp3 as a vintage "format".


This feeling that i've been missing something from my music collection has been eating at me for a while now, and it is untill
recently that i've come to this conclusion, or opinion. with recent events, and lists portraying vinyl sales as rising just
assures me that i am not the only person out there that feels this way.


ok, i am done for now. my fingers are tired, and brain.
I appologize for any typo's, spelling errors, or literary faults, english feels like a second language to me sometimes. hahaa.

thanks, and any responses/rebuttals to my post would be greatly appreciated. Your opinion matters to me AudioKarma!

"there are memories attached to these albums that digital format doesnt have"

All I can say is, Record albums, 45's, Vintage stereo equip. music, Etc. Some of these things become a part of a person's personality. It becomes part of you. you will miss it when it's gone. Yes memories
I turn 54 this month, I can pull out a record not knowingly that brings me back to days and things I thought forgotten.

One thing you need to understand about your father is that years ago most everything that was bought had to be, or could be, modified to be improved. I totally understand why he doesn't want to just download replacement copies of his vinyl. I just converted a bunch of my LPs to wav and imported into Windows Media Center for instant access.:banana: I will make mp3s from there. The sense of accomplishment cannot be explained, if you don't understand.

As for new music, I don't look for attitude. I look for a sense of imagery in the lyrics, like poetry, and an instrumental accompaniment that has lots of variety and textures. Formula music just gets boring after a while.

Has the internet, the mp3 generation diluted the feeling of music? You can sit at your computer right now
and find pretty much any album you desire in digital format. If you can't find it now, you keep searching and
you will. If it is so easy to find the music you want, then there is no work, or journey to get your album. If you
dont work at getting the music you want, then does the emotion towards that music become obsolete?



This is a very thoughtful thread Slip, I like it. I'm only 27, so I grew up with the whole mp3 thing (at least in my teens), and I went through a phase wherein I just downloaded songs I wanted, or an entire album, then if I liked it I'd buy a real copy. But more often than not I was just looking for a particular song, so I had folders filled with random songs, which was fun to listen to, but over the years I've moved away from the computer having anything to do with music (except buying it :D ) and back to CDs, cassettes, and, above all, vinyl.

I think the current generation is lazy in general, though I suppose in some ways I can't blame people because it's actually hard to not be lazy these days. It's easy to get into the habit of just seeking out and downloading anything you want online, whether legitimately or not, and at that point it also becomes easy for music to end up being disposable, since you find what you want, listen for a while, file it away or delete it, and move on. I'm not claiming that this takes all the magic out of the experience of listening to music by any means, but it does, IMO do at least two things. First, downloading music can detract from the album experience, since you have no physical copy to hold, no artwork to look at, just something to click. Second, it's easy to download single songs rather than an entire album, or skip through songs, which can be disruptive to the intended feel of the album.

People are free to enjoy music however they want to, of course. But I've discovered over the years that I'm more of an "album person," I like to enjoy it as a whole, and obviously since I'm here, sound quality is of great importance to me, so I like to listen on various formats, each of which has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of digital music (as in mp3 files) is that it's fast and easy, which is why it's become the format of choice for most people at present.

Yeah, Mr Lin, this thread could get real heavy. There is a good mix of people here so there should be some great feedback.
All I can say is high fidelity is not a concern with many of the younger set, therefore the "music" doesn't matter as much. To many now days, a cell phone is good enough to listen to music on.
I just picked up a set of speakers, probably the best I own, and my daughter can't understand the attraction to quality sound, and probably can't tell the difference. Both my girls have huge music collections but listen to them through junk. (at least my boy knows the difference, but he has the biggest "free' collection of the family). I have the first record I bought, in 1966, and have never sold one, nor ever downloaded a song off the internet.
I guess what I am getting at is to most old timers the music is more than a song, it is a living work that is to be cherished.

This is a very thoughtful thread Slip, I like it. I'm only 27, so I grew up with the whole mp3 thing (at least in my teens), and I went through a phase wherein I just downloaded songs I wanted, or an entire album, then if I liked it I'd buy a real copy. But more often than not I was just looking for a particular song, so I had folders filled with random songs, which was fun to listen to, but over the years I've moved away from the computer having anything to do with music (except buying it :D ) and back to CDs, cassettes, and, above all, vinyl.

I think the current generation is lazy in general, though I suppose in some ways I can't blame people because it's actually hard to not be lazy these days. It's easy to get into the habit of just seeking out and downloading anything you want online, whether legitimately or not, and at that point it also becomes easy for music to end up being disposable, since you find what you want, listen for a while, file it away or delete it, and move on. I'm not claiming that this takes all the magic out of the experience of listening to music by any means, but it does, IMO do at least two things. First, downloading music can detract from the album experience, since you have no physical copy to hold, no artwork to look at, just something to click. Second, it's easy to download single songs rather than an entire album, or skip through songs, which can be disruptive to the intended feel of the album.

People are free to enjoy music however they want to, of course. But I've discovered over the years that I'm more of an "album person," I like to enjoy it as a whole, and obviously since I'm here, sound quality is of great importance to me, so I like to listen on various formats, each of which has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of digital music (as in mp3 files) is that it's fast and easy, which is why it's become the format of choice for most people at present.


Cool, nice response. I was staring at this thread for a while before i last looked at it, and no one wanted to touch it. hahaa.

Yeah, I think the point you made about music becoming "disposable" fits really well into what I mentioned. Music just looses its substance when its so freely available.

Thanks for the input, Mr. Lin.

"there are memories attached to these albums that digital format doesnt have"

All I can say is, Record albums, 45's, Vintage stereo equip. music, Etc. Some of these things become a part of a person's personality. It becomes part of you. you will miss it when it's gone. Yes memories
I turn 54 this month, I can pull out a record not knowingly that brings me back to days and things I thought forgotten.


Exactly what I am talking about. Who knows, maybe kids these days will whip out there ole' iPod when they're 53 and force there kids to sit through a set of T.I. hahaa...

Thanks for the response, Jovinyl.

I guess what I am getting at is to most old timers the music is more than a song, it is a living work that is to be cherished.


Exactly, I agree %100.

Music is music. It's a universal part of humanity.

As musical artists from every age and every society have demonstrated, it's not what the music sounds like or how it's delivered that matters, it's what it does for your soul.

None of us would be here if we didn't have some appreciation for the means of delivery, but when it comes to music as a whole, we're just a tiny niche.

The truth (as I see it) is that music is a powerful and fundamental means of human expression, and it will survive as long as humanity does. It doesn't matter whether your music comes from an iPod, a turntable or a guitar by the campfire.

The 'industry' doesn't matter, the technology doesn't matter, nor does the format, style, distribution or anything else on the periphery. All that matters is the interaction between musician and listener.

Worrying about the future of music is the same as worrying about the future of the species.

Music is music. It's a universal part of humanity.

As musical artists from every age and every society have demonstrated, it's not what the music sounds like or how it's delivered that matters, it's what it does for your soul.

None of us would be here if we didn't have some appreciation for the means of delivery, but when it comes to music as a whole, we're just a tiny niche.

The truth (as I see it) is that music is a powerful and fundamental means of human expression, and it will survive as long as humanity does. It doesn't matter whether your music comes from an iPod, a turntable or a guitar by the campfire.

The 'industry' doesn't matter, the technology doesn't matter, nor does the format, style, distribution or anything else on the periphery. All that matters is the interaction between musician and listener.

Worrying about the future of music is the same as worrying about the future of the species.

Hail charlottemi!

That is a very good point, when taking music in account as its most simplistic form, it is tough to find an argument against your comment. However, I can tell that music these days (due to it being so popular) isn't as appreciated as it was when I was younger. The main objective of my post is dealing with how widespread music is nowadays, and how easily an album can be obtained. Since it is so easy to get your music, and practically no work involved, it seems to me that music has lost a certain value or emotional worth. It is almost as if music, or the art that it is, is being taken advantage of.

Very true, music at its most naive and purest form is an art, and will be a form of human expression for many, many years to come.

Music, as a physical artifact, may not be appreciated like it used to be. The thrill of the chase may be gone, and so might be the pride of ownership, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. I certainly remember getting a Quiet Riot cassette tape for Christmas back in the day and lording it over my less fortunate elementary school friends. And, maybe that did make Metal Health sound a bit sweeter, I don't know.

But, what I *do* know is that modern technology has made music a lot more democratic. Production and distribution can be done easier and cheaper than ever before, and the same is true on the consumer side. None of us are beholden to the industry gatekeepers like we were in the past. I believe that's a positive development for music and society.

I should add that while I know finding and obtaining a sought after vinyl record has a very real emotional value attached to it that I won't dispute, I don't believe it's directly related to the music. It's a totem, a symbol, of the music that is a pleasure to own and hold and examine. But, it's not the music.

Music, as a physical artifact, may not be appreciated like it used to be. The thrill of the chase may be gone, and so might be the pride of ownership, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. I certainly remember getting a Quiet Riot cassette tape for Christmas back in the day and lording it over my less fortunate elementary school friends. And, maybe that did make Metal Health sound a bit sweeter, I don't know.

But, what I *do* know is that modern technology has made music a lot more democratic. Production and distribution can be done easier and cheaper than ever before, and the same is true on the consumer side. None of us are beholden to the industry gatekeepers like we were in the past. I believe that's a positive development for music and society.

Hail charlottemi!

I can definitely agree with that post. I am extremely thankful that I am able to record music, and promote it as I am able to, thanks to modern technology. That has been a dream of mine for many years. I am also grateful that we are not bound by music labels anymore. I can easily see the upside to recent events, but also I can see a downside to it.

A part of me does feel that music as an art form, and human expression as you said, SHOULD be free for anyone. I am still weighing the good things about recent technology, but also the downfalls of it.

In a basic comparison. If you put a kid in a candy store, and charge him for candy. He is bound by a monetary value, and will value the candy he does get much more. You give him free reign over all the candy, and he will eat until he pukes. Too much of a good thing isn't so good anymore.

hahaa...horrible comparison, but that's all i could come up with at the moment. I was going to use a drug addict, but was afraid of what speculation and controversy that would bring up.

Also, one more downfall to free music everywhere...two words.




LARS ULRICH!
:drool:
hahaa.

I should add that while I know finding and obtaining a sought after vinyl record has a very real emotional value attached to it that I won't dispute, I don't believe it's directly related to the music. It's a totem, a symbol, of the music that is a pleasure to own and hold and examine. But, it's not the music.

Now that certainly may be one of my faults. I am taking music as a whole and making it accountable for each individuals perception, or feeling it gives them. Especially when music will have a different effect on everybody.

I am mixing my own experiences with music and the progression it has taken lately. Holding the media (mp3) responsible for my personal indifferences is wrong, and probably should be separated.

Thanks for pointing out the difference, I should take that into account going forward. Music and the format it is served on are two extremely different things.



Damn, you have certainly poked my mind, and i am now questioning my own arguments.

Exactly what I am talking about. Who knows, maybe kids these days will whip out there ole' iPod when they're 53 and force there kids to sit through a set of T.I. hahaa...

Thanks for the response, Jovinyl.

"Cool, nice response. I was staring at this thread for a while before i last looked at it, and no one wanted to touch it. hahaa."

It took a bit of thought. I just felt a direct connection with that line of yours I quoted.
Funny all the CD's I have, not one has a special memory.

It isn't fair to say the current generation is lazy. Biology is lazy -- humanity is lazy -- always taking the path of least resistance. It is a question of reward versus investment -- cost/benefit. For some the rewards of music differ (listening in the car vs sitting down and listening in a room) and weigh against other factors in life -- how much are you on the go versus sitting at home without much to do but listen? Modern lifestyle is different than it used to be. So music, being a part of many people's lives, must adapt.

Don't forget the BIG picture. It used to be that people sat around and made their own music. Music in the home was much more common way back when than it has been in the last 50 years or more. There was no recorded music, after all. Of course... now we have access to extremely talented musicians' performances.

Lately, I've come to discover some of the intensity in music that I never experienced before-- when finding LP versions that I guess bring out more dynamics. It isn't so much the thrill of finding the rare LP as it is just the intensity of listening to the music. (e.g. U2 - Joshua Tree and MoFi's pressing of Rush - Permanent Waves) I have CDs, fortunately, that are similarly intense (like a Nielsen piece on an RCA red label that used SBM or Mendelssohn Rarities) and even some MP3s that keep drawing me back (Uberzone - Ideology) So, I think the emotion/feeling/attraction can be there in any format.

But does music matter more or less depending on the format? At the same time I do have a higher sense of value for an LP or 4-track I am holding in my hand which I discovered somewhere versus some bits on a hard drive.

I do believe that the acts of caring for the medium and the physical ritual of replaying the media does demand more attention paid to the listening. Maybe that goes back to the work/benefit thing. If I am going to go through all this trouble to clean the LP, stylus, set up the TT, keep track of hours on the stylus -- or, clean the tape heads and path, demagnetize, thread that stupid tape onto the other reel, then by gosh this isn't going to be background music!

And the potential for permanent damage and wear surely plays in. If you realize that every time you play might be the last time you hear the LP without that giant scratch, or the last time the tape plays before it snaps or stretches, or a giant chunk of oxide comes loose... well you better be paying attention to what you're hearing!

When you think of going to that live concert... it's the only time you ever hear that event in that venue, in person. The music is real, it is so much more than any recording will ever be. So the concert becomes an experience in addition to the music. Maybe that is what is missing. These old formats make music more of a precious event and experience than pressing play on the iPod any time you want.

Michael

Has the internet, the mp3 generation diluted the feeling of music? You can sit at your computer right now
and find pretty much any album you desire in digital format. If you can't find it now, you keep searching and
you will. If it is so easy to find the music you want, then there is no work, or journey to get your album. If you
dont work at getting the music you want, then does the emotion towards that music become obsolete?


Nope, I don't think so. To me, the emotion in the music comes from the performer, what the performer puts into it, and maybe because of memories I have related to listening to the song. I don't think I've ever felt emotional about an album simply because it was hard to find...

Take one album for example. Slayer - Unsiputed Attitude. I have this album on the original cassette when it was released back
in 1996, and i have an mp3 @ 320kbps. When I listen to the mp3, i feel like their is something missing. What the hell? It sounds WAY
better, i can actually make Tom Arayas lyrics out, and hear the cymbals crystal clear. When I listen to the cassette, as dirty as it is,
the case is cracked all to hell, the inner pamphlet is tore all to hell, and i have a concert ticket inside from when i saw them. I can
actually feel the music, i can think back to when i moved out of dads house in my '69 VW bug with nothing but my fishing pole and $300
and went to the Bay Area because I wanted some tight poon-tan. Why doesnt my mp3 give me the same feeling?


Because it's an MP3. Ever listen to it on a lossless compression format, such as FLAC? As for having a physical medium, that's a different issue than the sonics :)


Todays youth is spoiled?
I am more concerned now about todays youth and the direction that they will take the music industry. 99% of todays kids prefers
the mp3 format over any other.


Some of us in the 1% are trying to change that :)

You have the internet, where every garage band with a 56k connection can get there music out there, give it to
other people, and pretty much promote in ways any band would have killed for just 13 years ago. With music so widely spread (which in a way, is a blessing)
and anyone can have access to anything they want. Has music become diluted?

There's certainly a lot more to filter through, that's for sure. Instead of only seeing the output of record companies and maybe locally-distributed bootlegs, anyone can post up on Youtube whatever they feel like, for the world to see. But there's still some great music being made out there today.

I don't know what I'm going to say if my grandkids ever ask me to explain Soulja Boy, though :lmao::yuck:

Good thing I've got a couple decades to figure that one out :D

;2381580']grandkids

You have grandkids?:D

I listen to CD's exclusively. I've replaced, whenever available, vinyl records that I bought as a kid in the 60's and 70's.

I have never even held an MP3 player in my hand. I have no music on my PC.

My CD's (and the technology behind them) never leaves me wanting for anything more or different. CD's has transformed my love for music in ways that are hard to explain, and I'm damn glad I have my CD's.

Has todays music lost its meaning, lost its feeling?

When I ask myself what Vinyl am I missing from my collection, i can think of plenty of albums to
get. When i ask myself what am i missing from my mp3/wav collection, i couldnt tell you. I have everything to my hearts desire.
Even though i have everything in digital format that should make me content, would i rather give up
my record collection, or my digital collection?

I would rather keep my vinyl, of course.

Has the internet, the mp3 generation diluted the feeling of music? You can sit at your computer right now
and find pretty much any album you desire in digital format. If you can't find it now, you keep searching and
you will. If it is so easy to find the music you want, then there is no work, or journey to get your album. If you
dont work at getting the music you want, then does the emotion towards that music become obsolete?

Take one album for example. Slayer - Unsiputed Attitude. I have this album on the original cassette when it was released back
in 1996, and i have an mp3 @ 320kbps. When I listen to the mp3, i feel like their is something missing. What the hell? It sounds WAY
better, i can actually make Tom Arayas lyrics out, and hear the cymbals crystal clear. When I listen to the cassette, as dirty as it is,
the case is cracked all to hell, the inner pamphlet is tore all to hell, and i have a concert ticket inside from when i saw them. I can
actually feel the music, i can think back to when i moved out of dads house in my '69 VW bug with nothing but my fishing pole and $300
and went to the Bay Area because I wanted some tight poon-tan. Why doesnt my mp3 give me the same feeling?

My father, 53 now, has about 300+ albums thats he has collected over the years. Most from the 1960's - the early 1980's, classic rock.
To keep up with the times he now has an iPod, he still stares at it blankly often, but thats besides the point. I try and tell
him that i will get all of that music for him, "you gotta hear mp3, dad, its AMAZING!!!", But he doesnt listen.
He doesn't like what he considers "stealing music" from the internet. But he doesnt want to buy all of those abums all over again.
So he is converting all of his old vinyl to mp3 format, one record at a time. at first i thought this was stupid, but after some consideration
I understand why he is doing this....there are memories attached to these albums that digital format doesnt have. (even though it is
digital driven vinyl. hahaa)


Todays youth is spoiled?
I am more concerned now about todays youth and the direction that they will take the music industry. 99% of todays kids prefers
the mp3 format over any other. You have the internet, where every garage band with a 56k connection can get there music out there, give it to
other people, and pretty much promote in ways any band would have killed for just 13 years ago. With music so widely spread (which in a way, is a blessing)
and anyone can have access to anything they want. Has music become diluted? Its like getting to much of something really good, and its not so
good anymore. I suppose that kids will get nostalgia from music, gain memories and attach it to certain songs just like i have. Will they
attach their youth with the mp3 format and go with it untill another medium comes out and they end up returing to mp3 as a vintage "format".


This feeling that i've been missing something from my music collection has been eating at me for a while now, and it is untill
recently that i've come to this conclusion, or opinion. with recent events, and lists portraying vinyl sales as rising just
assures me that i am not the only person out there that feels this way.


ok, i am done for now. my fingers are tired, and brain.
I appologize for any typo's, spelling errors, or literary faults, english feels like a second language to me sometimes. hahaa.

thanks, and any responses/rebuttals to my post would be greatly appreciated. Your opinion matters to me AudioKarma!


I F**king love that deftones album... nice avatar sir...:thmbsp:

;2381555']Nope, I don't think so. To me, the emotion in the music comes from the performer, what the performer puts into it, and maybe because of memories I have related to listening to the song. I don't think I've ever felt emotional about an album simply because it was hard to find...



Because it's an MP3. Ever listen to it on a lossless compression format, such as FLAC? As for having a physical medium, that's a different issue than the sonics :)



Some of us in the 1% are trying to change that :)



There's certainly a lot more to filter through, that's for sure. Instead of only seeing the output of record companies and maybe locally-distributed bootlegs, anyone can post up on Youtube whatever they feel like, for the world to see. But there's still some great music being made out there today.

Hail JimJ!

Nice, well detailed response. Yeah, I prefer WAV, but lossless audio is all over my laptop. I use it for mixing down my songs, loops and samples. After hearing much WAV or FLAC sound it is extremely tough for me to listen to any mp3 under 320kbps.

I F**king love that deftones album... nice avatar sir...:thmbsp:


Hahaa...Thanks, much appreciated!

And the potential for permanent damage and wear surely plays in. If you realize that every time you play might be the last time you hear the LP without that giant scratch, or the last time the tape plays before it snaps or stretches, or a giant chunk of oxide comes loose... well you better be paying attention to what you're hearing!


Michael


Hail Michael!

That's an excellent point, and I definitely didn't think of it that way. So, format could possibly play a role in this topic.

You have grandkids?:D

I think that'd be physically impossible right now :D...now as for kids, nobody's told me otherwise, so I think I'm good :para: :lmao:

Hail Michael!

That's an excellent point, and I definitely didn't think of it that way. So, format could possibly play a role in this topic.

I know I prefer to do my critical listening with LPs. There is something cool about having the record spin up, dropping the tonearm gently, having to switch album sides...being active vs. passive, I guess.

But FLAC certainly has its place...for parties, or maybe if I'm lazy and just would prefer to let Foobar pick random albums for me. Sometimes if I let the software comb through stuff I hear things I might not have heard if I was actively picking the record off the shelf :) An afternoon of complete randomness can be good.