And I have to say that this is one totally different turntable than what I am used to playing with!!!

I found it on the local Crigslist as a broken/parts unit...has a Signet TK3e...but the stylus is bent...$25.00...

Broken parts:
Motor didn't turn
Contact plate that contacts the cartridge carrier flopping loosely below headshell...
No dust cover...

I spent a couple of hours with it yesterday, I cleaned the idler wheel with a rubber cleaner/rejuvenator that contains d-limonene that I got years ago from the TechSpray people....

I took the motor apart and cleaned out the bearings by soaking them with a synthetic electric motor oil I acquired when I bought the estate inventory of a closed down turntable repairman...I polished the motor shaft with 2000 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper and reassembled it...wow, motor turns nicely now! I cleaned the motor capstan with green ScotchBrite...

The platter mat was flopping loosely, so I took a combination of acetone and xylene to remove all the old adhesive on the platter, and then scrubbed it with a brass brush and a heavy duty detergent meant to remove floor tile adhesive ...took some 1200 wet-or-dry sandpaper to the edge and to the inner part of the platter where the idler tire runs...scrubbed the mat with that heavy duty detergent to get the remnants of adhesive off it's back side..came out looking real nice...but, the little aluminum trim rings are long gone, so it's just plain black rubber...lubricated the main bearing with synthetic oil from Nye made for bronze bearings like this one...

Cleaned the contacts in the base "microswitch" where the tonearm leads make contact during play with 99% alcohol and a burnishing tool...

Figured out what had happened to the contact plate in the headshell and reinserted it properly...I had never seen one of these before and it took me a couple of tries to figure out just where it fit and that finally was "repaired"...for future reference though, those little bitty tonearm wires have turned green under the insulation...going to have to do a rewire on that thing, for darn sure! REALLY crappy wires from the headshell to the switch and just typical crappy stuff from that to the RCA jacks....let' see, from the cartridge to the output RCA jacks there are eight joints or connections, in each single channel! Count in the interconnect and there are eleven to it's RCA output plug...That's more than five times as many connections as an Incognito rewired Rega tonearm has!!!

Since the Signet's stylus was canted a bit, I looked through the bundles of NOS styli I have and found that an AT120E stylus fit perfectly...which means an AT440ML stylus should also fit....anyhow, it works quite nicely now...but, the cartridge mounting scheme is pure-d, grade-a, crapola! There are just so many interface areas between the cartridge and the tonearm proper that I really couldn't see putting anything very decent on one of these Dual tonearms and having it live up to it's potential...sory, just not gonna happen...but anyway...I aligned it with the "Enjoy the Music" protractor and left it at that...

After participating in one of the discussions here on this forum about rolled off highs, I grabbed a Uriah Heep "Demons and Wizards" LP and played it....well, not bad, not bad at all...thru the Grado SR-80's some of the acoustic parts were pretty amazing...then it was time for Bobbie Gentry and "Ode to Billy Joe"...

The combination of this really crappy, (in the grand scheme of things and of the turntables I am used to working on) old mass market turntable with my HK 490i in my Ham Shack/Computer room doesn't suck too badly, in fact, it may have enough sonic "warts" to actually make listening to some of the LP's I have that aren't exactly pleasant to listen to on the Linn/Audible/Bryston/Aerius-i setup in the den a bit more enjoyable...the term that comes to mind when I think about the sound of this setup is it's more like looking at a cardboard album cover rather than the original photograph that the cover would have been made from...a bit cardboard-ish...and these could be related to the 37 year old corroded wiring, but since it's been so long since I've listened to green copper I just can't remember what it sounds like!!!

I've got a few other problems mechanically related that I need to take care of, speed selector, etc., but it will eventually end up with a Pickering body as stylus changes on those are about the easiest there is and as I have an urge to explore 78's and a bunch of NOS Pickering stereo and 78 RPM styli then what the heck! I wanted to make sure that everything on it worked to a point before I did a full dismantle, clean, and rebuild...the quick clean I did showed that the base unit was pretty nice, not flawless, but not to doggy either...

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8398/dual1bt8.jpg
shot with C2100UZ (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=C2100UZ&make=OLYMPUS+OPTICAL+CO.%2CLTD) at 2009-01-06

And yes, it is level!


http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/2964/dual2gh9.jpg And yes, it is level!

Good find. And a good job.

Agree about the dual cartridge mounting. IMO poorly conceived.
Decent motor though and hold speed well.

Damping the tone arm with some mortite and adding a felt mat was a big improvement on mine.

The knob on the side of the headshell changes the vertical tracking angle to the correct value for single play "S" or for stacking records "M" - for multi. Change your setting to "S" - will sound better. Also, inspect the shaft that turns inside the headshell when you adjust from S to M. It's plastic, and prone to cracking in half.

The knob on the side of the headshell changes the vertical tracking angle to the correct value for single play "S" or for stacking records "M" - for multi. Change your setting to "S" - will sound better. Also, inspect the shaft that turns inside the headshell when you adjust from S to M. It's plastic, and prone to cracking in half.


Yep, I forgot to mention that I did get the original owner's manual with it, and have gone over the service manual I found on-line...it's in German, but it at least lets you know where the parts should be!

I did check it and you are right, I was thinking "M" for manual and "S" for stacked...but either way there's less adjustment for VTA on one of these than on a Rega Planar 3! It's also integral and hasn't cracked, but is part of the problem with the flaky mounting scheme...

I'm glad I got one, especially at such a cheap price, which will now prevent me from spending more money, which would have p*ssed me off after seeing just what these things are made of...some of the old Garrards that I have worked on really are built better...but this thing is kind of cool in that almost indescribable post WW2 European made goods way...

I know that these units were made for an entirely different audience and in an entirely different time, and it gives me a chance to play with an idler wheel turntable, but in all honesty I do not see how a Dual can compete with the other idler drive turntables, like the Garrard 301 and the Rek-O-Kuts, but it is an interesting intellectual experiment to learn to work on one...

I've also been thinking that the lousy, lossy mounting scheme might work for cartridges like the Grado Prestige series, which I really don't care for on tables like my Linn LP-12, Micro Seki BL-51, Pioneer PL-41, Denon DP-45F, or Yamaha PX-3...shades of "The Cartridge Man" and his spongy rubber baby buggy bumper mounting scheme...

Which is the reason I got it, not to make a great sonic statement but just to have something to work on, play with, and restore to function...plus, give me the ability to play 78's....

It really is just a toy for me to play with...it will stay in the Ham/computer room, probably always stacked on top of the HK as I have no room for it unless I unload some of my Collins radio gear, and let me play some of my lesser records when SWMBO is in the den and preventing my use of the main rig as it's hooked up to the TV, etc....

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Very nice!! , cool find & great job getting it back up & running .

The Dual 1200 series were very popular for the purpose that they served, affordable changer/manual TT with a very heavy platter. I don't care much for their umbrella type auto-spindles. Looking at the other TT's that you have I can tell you that you can work on that Dual till the cows come home and your never gonna be happy with the results considering your taste in upper level TT's. Just my 2 cents, Mark
P.S. Comparing it to those TT's really isn't fair, now if you're comparing it to BSR's, VOM's or Garrards(changers), now that's a different story, it should come out ahead. But fall short of the Bics. Again just my 2 cents.

Well, it is better than a BIC I had back in the '70's...by a large margin...I once had a girlfriend tell me she hated the table, threw the thing out the back door, and went and bought a Technics 1200...I have to admit, it sounded leagues better than the BIC...

The one thing that the Dual will do that all my "better" turntables won't do is play 78's...which is really why I was looking for one of the Duals, I came across a fellow who had boxes and boxes of 78's that were once used at an Army broadcasting studio...would be great to hear some of the programs he had...

The one thing that the Dual will do that all my "better" turntables won't do is play 78's...which is really why I was looking for one of the Duals, I came across a fellow who had boxes and boxes of 78's that were once used at an Army broadcasting studio...would be great to hear some of the programs he had...

Were those the old WWII-era "Victory Discs," by chance? I managed to track down the V-disc of Glenn Miller's final recording, the "St. Louis Blues March" a while back. The sound is pretty good for a 64-year-old 78 that was probably played endlessly at some military installation.

Probably, it's been a month or so and I just don't remember the labels, but he must have had a thousand of them...you know, an hours worth of music at 78RPM!

That Bic that you had must of had some problems then, my 940 and 960 sound as good or better than my AR XA or Technics SL D2. There are a few Akers on here that have replaced their upper tier TT's with a Bic just recently.http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2379860&postcount=62

Here's another post, and there have been several posts lately talking about how musical the bics are. Maybe yours had a bad connection.http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2374644&postcount=9

That Bic that you had must of had some problems then, my 940 and 960 sound as good or better than my AR XA or Technics SL D2. There are a few Akers on here that have replaced their upper tier TT's with a Bic just recently.http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2379860&postcount=62

Believe me, the BIC I had back in 1980 was a piece of BPC and the GF I had at that time replaced it with a SL1200 that absolutely walked all over the thing.

After we broke up and I had to go back to the BIC, I rapidly made up my mind to replace that thing...that's when I bought my Yamaha PX-3....I never looked back with any kind of fondness for the BIC...

It's been so long that I really can't remember what model it was, the only thing I do remember was that the headshell was not removable, was made of plastic, it had a single play spindle instead of the stacking spindle, and looking at current pictures of the few BICs I find,the platter mat was the same...

After that, well, it's all lost in the fog of time...

OK, then that must have been a lower model than the 940, 960, 980 or 1000 because the headshells are removable that's how I installed the carts on mine. Yes they are plastic but it doesn't seem to affect the sound on mine, i've used the same at120e cartridge on metal technics and stanton headshells and they didn't sound better than when the cart was on my bic. The AR XA has a very fragile plastic headshell but is still famous for being very musical. How's your Dual coming along, I recently purchased a 1219, 1019 and an Elac Miracord 625. The guy kept the 1219 in the original box in his garage which didn't help it a bit, I spent a lot of time on it and I had to order a new speed select lever from southside and a cartridge carrier from William Thacker in Germany(cheaper from him new than used from anyone over here in the US). It has a very low sound level and I tried cleaning all of the cartridge connections and the connections in the mute switch to no avail. Is there more connections deeper in the headshell, I'd hate to rewire that tonearm it's a very complicated tonearm to remove, with it's manual/changer height adjustment, the 1219's height adjust lever is built into the base of the tonearm. Don't even get me started on the famous "Pimpel" trouble shooting. Goodluck with yours, Mark

I'd hate to rewire that tonearm it's a very complicated tonearm to remove,

I wouldn't try to remove the tonearm, just use a small diameter wire, like 28 ga solid core, and solder that to the wire that you've loosened under the table, pull the wire thru the front, solder new wires on that blasted little contact board and to the "messenger" wire, and draw them back thru with the messenger wire....that's similar to what I do every time I rewire a Rega tonearm with the Incognito kit...and I've done several dozen Rega and Origin Live tonearms with the kits originally from Garth and now from the new supplier...

...

OK, then that must have been a lower model than the 940, 960, 980 or 1000 because the headshells are removable that's how I installed the carts on mine. Yes they are plastic but it doesn't seem to affect the sound on mine, i've used the same at120e cartridge on metal technics and stanton headshells and they didn't sound better than when the cart was on my bic. The AR XA has a very fragile plastic headshell but is still famous for being very musical.


Well, after all the looking around I have done, I really don't remember what the BIC was that I had, but the Technics and later my PX-3 both bested it in sound by a large margin....

How's your Dual coming along,

I'm actually listening to it now at 9:45PM! SWMBO leaves the house for work before 7AM, gets home around 7PM, eats dinner and then crashes on the couch in MY DEN!

So, this Dual has a small enough footprint to sit on top of a Carver TL3220 CD player, on top of the HK 490i, and not be too perturbed about that situation...the Grado SR-80's help me keep the local noise level down. Plus, for 20 years this has been the room that I escape to from her and have all my Ham radio gear in here, two computers, and a decent 20" TV hooked up to U-Verse...the Grado cans make this an enjoyable listening area!

Just played Petty's "Damn the Torpedoes" and now listening to a MHS Brahms Sonata in F Minor for viola and Piano....

The Black just doesn't have enough "there" there...plus the AC motor in the Dual induces some hum...I'm going to try a Pickering and an ADC this weekend and see what they do...


I recently purchased a 1219, 1019 and an Elac Miracord 625.


I've wanted to play with one of the TOTL Miracords, maybe one will pass by me someday....


The guy kept the 1219 in the original box in his garage which didn't help it a bit, I spent a lot of time on it and I had to order a new speed select lever from southside and a cartridge carrier from William Thacker in Germany(cheaper from him new than used from anyone over here in the US).


Yeah, I saw those, I think I may have a spare one around here somewhere...it is convenient, but not real secure...which is why that arm has a harder time holding cartridges securely and damping resonances, and why it doesn't seem to me as if a radical stylus profile could be used on the table as there is no VTA adjustbility...


It has a very low sound level and I tried cleaning all of the cartridge connections and the connections in the mute switch to no avail. Is there more connections deeper in the headshell, I'd hate to rewire that tonearm it's a very complicated tonearm to remove, with it's manual/changer height adjustment, the 1219's height adjust lever is built into the base of the tonearm. Don't even get me started on the famous "Pimpel" trouble shooting. Goodluck with yours, Mark

The wires from that little contact board go straight to the muting switch....see my previous post about "fishing" the wire...

Oh fudge...

I just replaced the Black stylus with the Blue...and yesterday I had installed the "Longhorn" stabilizer....helps a lot on this setup! I could never tell any difference on the Ittok, the PL-41, or the BL-51....

The Brahms and the Blue along with the SR-80's are simply wonderful....

No, not up to the level of my Sondek, but very enjoyable nonetheless....

Yep, sounds great, but that hum has got to go....

Maybe I'll also try my Ringmat on it, too...

I did the Longhorn on my green on the AR XA and it is a very nice combo. To combat the "famous" Grado-AR hum I ordered a Mu-Metal sheet and covered the motor as a shield and that pretty much took care of that. I haven't noticed any hum with the 1219, I hope that if I rewire it and get a nice loud signal that I don't here a hum that may be there now and is masked by a poor signal. The Elac is a Realistic Lab-40c aka elac miracord 625 and is actually a very beautiful TT and a solid performer. It's similar to a Dual(both German made)but I like it's headshell design much better than the Dual's.
I don't expect mind blowing sound from any of my changers but I enjoy working on them and getting them into like new shape. There's something fun about them and I enjoy putting a couple records on at bed time. I usually never stack more than 2 at a time(that seems to keep the VTA from getting too distorted) i'm usually asleep by the time the second one is done playing anyway. I never stack my 180 or 200 gram vinyl because they are so thick and heavy that they usually jam up most of my changer spindles. I save those albums for the manual TT's.:D

Nice Job, great looking Table! Good luck with it. I had the same model, sold it to another audio analog fan. I still have my 1219 though.

Thanks,
John.:music: