I know, I know, there's tons of info out there. However, I have a fairly specific question that I haven't been able to find an answer to yet. The fluid that came with my NG 1.0 is about done. I've bought materials to make the standard Distilled water/Iso/photoflo formula but I was thinking about adding a little Dawn to the mix. Formulas that I've seen either have photoflo or dawn, but they don't seem to have both. Is there a chemical reaction type reason for this? Should these two not be mixed together? Just to clarify I'm thinking of 3 parts distilled, 1 part iso, a few drops of photoflo and a few drops of dawn. Any reason not to do this?

I know, I know, there's tons of info out there. However, I have a fairly specific question that I haven't been able to find an answer to yet. The fluid that came with my NG 1.0 is about done. I've bought materials to make the standard Distilled water/Iso/photoflo formula but I was thinking about adding a little Dawn to the mix. Formulas that I've seen either have photoflo or dawn, but they don't seem to have both. Is there a chemical reaction type reason for this? Should these two not be mixed together? Just to clarify I'm thinking of 3 parts distilled, 1 part iso, a few drops of photoflo and a few drops of dawn. Any reason not to do this?

Commercial detergents have scent and color added. Some say this is not a good thing in a record-cleaning fluid.

Why not make two different formulas one with Dawn and one with photoflo. Then do some testing and report back your findings.

I have a couple drops of Photoflo and a couple drops of unscented Dawn dish soap in my mix and it seams to come amazingly clean with a simple vacuum. And since the idea of a disitilled rinse never made any since to me since with out the sufficant like dawn or photoflo in the mix the surface tension of the water will not allow it to reach down into the grooves anyway. Least looking at water sit on the surface of the record with a 20x magnifing loop that is what I see evenif I try to scrub the water down into the groove.

So I use 80% Store bought steam distilled water and 20% Isopropal Alcohol with 2-3 drops of dawn and 2-3 drops of photoflo in a 5 quart mixture (5 quarts is the easist way to get the ratio's correct for me)

And after an aggressive srubbing for about a half min my machine vacuum the fuild off and out of the grooves to the point at 20X I can see no fuild anywhere I'm quite happy

Everyones Mileage may vary and I don't care I'm happy with my method.

Just the kind of results I was hoping for, thanks Mark.

If you use Dawn or other dishwashing detergent, photoflo is redundant. I believe that's why you seldom see them mentioned together.

The purpose of photo flow is to act as a wetting agent to "inhibit formation of water spots or streaks on film." Kind of like "sparkling clean, streak-free" dishes.

Thats what dishwashing detergent does and ... wait there's more ... breaks down surface tension to lift off dirt and greasy residue so squeaky clean you can eat off your records!

Different components do different jobs. Break down hard water, act as wetting agent or surfactants, etc.

If you are really concerned about unknown additives or dyes, and want to make your own on the cheap, on public tv they promoted a book and video that had cleaning tips and made some concoction with water softener. So you basically had scent-free dishwashing detergent.

If you use Dawn or other dishwashing detergent, photoflo is redundant. I believe that's why you seldom see them mentioned together.


Thats what dishwashing detergent does and ... wait there's more ... breaks down surface tension to lift off dirt and greasy residue so squeaky clean you can eat off your records!

Well that clears that up. I didn't realize Dawn acted as a wetting agent. I thought it was for cleansing only and photoflo was purely for breaking down the surface tension of the water. Thanks.

Whatever formula you use. Especially with hand cleaning. Rinse and flush well. Don't know about RCMs.

Well after doing about 50-60 records with just the NG I'm thinking of going to a two-step process: initial scrub with a distilled water rinse, then a regular RCM pass.

After reading many threads (mostly here) and considering my needs:
1. Cleaning records of mold, fingerprints, oils, GUNK..
2. Reducing Static
3. Bringing "bargain" LP's back to playlife

I settled upon the following formula (not mine, but a composite of several threads)

3 cups "soft" water (not de-ionized, I live on a well - I have a water softener)
1 cup ~90% Isopropyl acohol (from grocery store = ~$2/pint)
2 drops "Mr Clean" or "Spic & Span"
1 drop Dawn dishwashing detergent

Mix well (final volume ~1 quart)

Place record on clean soft towel - drop 1-2 tablespoons of mixture on record

use 3" paint brush (Harbor Freight ~$0.50) to spread fluid on record - use multiple clockwise strokes

Rinse with water

Repeat for other side

Rinse well (both sides) with warm (not hot) water

Dry with Microfiber towel (Harbor Freight $1.0)

Let air dry ~30 min

I do not take any precautions for the label - just don't rub it - just pat to remove excess water. All record labels so far (new and old) seem to be fine when dry (no discolor or warpage)

As all other have mentioned - I'm really impressed wha ta diffeence this makes. Takes records with lots of pops and clicks to nearly silent!

Hope sharing my expereince heps!
Best
Wayne

What Mark W. says is what I'm thinking about every time I rinse with distilled water and when I read I should be rinsing after applying the cleaning solution - if I use a vacuum, what's the point in rinsing with distilled water since the water without the wetting agent wouldn't penetrate down into the grooves and just forms drops over the record surface? So, I thought about scrubbing using a dish soap and rinsing with distilled water anyway, but put one or two drops of wetting agent (not dish soap)...

Gleaned from Internet sources. Use at you own risk...
Be careful with these chemicals -- they are poisonous.

I looked up the original Discwasher patent on their cleaning formulation.
The patent is U.S.# 3,951,841. This patent most likely applies to D3 which preceeded D4.
I don't know what changes might have been made when going from D3 to D4 but they were
likely minor and still fall within the scope of the original patent.

The cleaner basically contained an antifungal agent, a surfactant, one or two
solvents to keep the surfactant soluble in water and assist in cleaning, and distilled water.

The Patent discussion indicates the following possibilities:

1. The antifungal agent was sodium azide and probably ran between 0.0001% and 0.004% by weight.

2. The surfactant was either Triton X-114 or Triton N-57 and probably used somewhere between
0.0003% and 0.025%. These surfactants start to become insoluble in water when the temperature
reaches 70 - 75°F which is what makes them effective at cleaning oils/greases but can cause
formula stability problems (separation into two layers) without the assistance of a cosolvent
or other surfactant.

3. The two possible solvents are propylene glycol and isopropyl alcohol (IPA). Propylene glycol
is probably run between 0.001% and 0.2%. The patent suggests IPA is run anywhere from 0.01% up to 5%.

Since this cleaner can be thought of as being similar to a glass cleaner, the total solids level
usually does not exceed 0.1% by weight (glass cleaners are prone to leaving visible streaking
above this level). Thus, my best guess at the original D3 Discwasher solution is:

Sodium Azide = 0.004%
Surfactant (most likely Triton X-114) = 0.025%
Propylene Glycol = 0.01% to 0.075% (probably closer to the high end)
IPA = Won't hurt to run the full 5%
Distilled Water = quantity sufficient to add up to 100%

I personally was never impressed with D3 or D4; they didn't wet the surface very well
as evidenced by the formation of liquid beads when applying to either the album surface or
the Discwasher Brush. Poor wetting action usually results in poor cleaning.


************************************************** ************************************************** ***
hear what you're saying. I don't have the "secret" formula for DW but I feel the one I'm using is
very good for use with a pad. I use a pad to clean records that have already been cleaned but picked up
some minor dust. (For deep cleaning I spray the same stuff liberally on the LP, wipe firmly with a
microfiber cloth, and then follow with a Signet carbon-fiber pad.) The mix is simple: 1 cup pure reagent
grade IPA, 3 cups deionized filtered water, 5-10 drops of Triton X-100. Read the data on Triton I just
posted tonight, above. Its worth the trouble to procure. That SPI place sells it by mail for like
$6 for half a liter- split that with many friends...(Thanks to Electrovice!)


************************************************** ************************************************** ***
1. A phonograph record cleaning composition useful for loosening and coagulating particulate matter and inducing fungicidal activity upon the record surface without leaving any evident dry weight residue after usage, and consisting essentially of a fungicide of sodium azide in an amount of between about 0.0001 to 0.001 percent by weight, a nonionic surfactant selected from the group consisting of octyl phenoxy polyethoxy ethanol and nonyl phenoxy polyethoxy ethanol and included in an amount of between about 0.0003 to 0.025 percent by weight, and emulsifier selected from the group consisting of propylene glycol, ethylene glycol, and glycerine and included in an amount of between about 0.001 to 0.0125 percent by weight, an alcohol selected from the group consisting of methyl, ethyl, propyl and isopropyl alcohols and included in an amount of between about 0.01 to 5 percent, and the remaining part of the composition comprising a liquid carrier of water present in an amount of not less than 94 percent by weight, said alcohol being included to make the surfactant more soluable in said water.

2. The invention of claim 1 wherein the water is distilled water.

------------------------------------------------------------



A typical formulation for the fluid may comprise as follows:



INGREDIENT PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT

______________________________________

Anti-microbe up to 1

Emulsifier up to 1

Surfactant up to 1

Liquid Carrier at least 97

______________________________________



Another formulation for the fluid composition of this invention may be as follows:



INGREDIENT PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT

______________________________________

Azide up to 0.3

Surfactant between .005-.2

Propylene Glycol between .075 and .2

Alcohol between 0.01 and 5

Water remaining percent

______________________________________



Another more specific formulation, and the one which has found effective commercial usage may be defined as follows:



INGREDIENT PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT

______________________________________

Sodium Azide .004

Propylene Glycol .005

Surfactant .075

Distilled Water 99.916

100.00

______________________________________



Another formulation utilized:



INGREDIENT PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT

______________________________________

Sodium Azide up to .001

Emulsifier up to .0125

Surfactant up to .025

Alcohol up to 5.0

Water at least 94.9615

______________________________________



Another formulation presenting the range of the preferred ingredients is as follows:



INGREDIENT PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT

______________________________________

Sodium Azide .0001 to .001

Surfactant .0003 to .025

Propylene Glycol .001 to .0125

Alcohol .01 to 5

Distilled Water at least 94

************************************************** ************************************************** *****
Craig's Record Cleaner Formulation; Absolutely No Patents Pending. This forumlation is based on the Discwasher patent, assuming that all ingredients have the same density as Distilled Water which is a pretty reasonable assumption.

(For Cleaning Vinyl Records)

All of these ingredients can be purchased from a supermarket.

Note: Prestone Antifreeze consists of the following and is toxic to humans and pets:
- Ethylene Glycol (107-21-1)
- Diethylene Glycol (111-46-6)
------------------------------------------------
Ingredients:

1. One Gallon of Iron Water (consists of Distilled Water)

2. 70 % Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol (Part of our Emulsifier)

3. Automatic Diswasher Cleaning Liquid {Like "Cascade Complete" brand - - - be sure that you DO NOT use the type that includes chlorine bleach as an ingredient} (Part of our Surfacant)

4. Antibacterial Liquid Hand Soap such as "Softsoap" (Our Antimicrobe agent and another part of our Surfacant)

5. Small amount of Prestone anti-freeze or equivalent (This is the other part of our Emulsifier)

----------------------------------------------------------

Recipe:

1. Remove 1/2 of a cup of water from the Gallon of Distilled Water. Discard this water; all the following ingredients are added directly to the large bottle of distilled water.

2. Add 3 Teaspoons of Prestone Anti-Freeze to the Water.

3. Add 4 Teaspoons of 70% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol to the concoction.

4. Add 5 Teaspoons of Automatic Diswasher Liquid to the concoction.

5. Add 5 Teaspoons of Liquid Antibacterial Soap to the concoction.

6. Put the cap back on the Water bottle.

7. Stir thoroughly for 5 minutes.

8. Let it settle for one hour.

9. Stir Again.

10 Done

How about someone coming up with the formulas for Nitty Gritty machines and for that matter VPI cleaning products?

It seems with the rumored "demise" of Vinyl, you seldom see reports on cleaning machines and chemicals.

I actually prefer the Dawn+Isopropyl Alcohol+distilled water mix to the Nitty Gritty Pure2 that came with my machine. Have even started using it with the Discwasher brush too. Could kick myself for buying a couple gallons of Pure2, it just sits in the closet.

Gleaned from Internet sources. Use at you own risk...
Be careful with these chemicals -- they are poisonous.

That's also why I opt for dishwashing liquid or something less toxic which allows washing by hand.

I had thought about some of the archival fluids recommended by the Library of Congress that I have seen but thought better of it.

I have the Unhealthy Trinity: allergies, sloppy and clumsiness which is not a good mix. ;)

So I use 80% Store bought steam distilled water and 20% Isopropal Alcohol with 2-3 drops of dawn and 2-3 drops of photoflo in a 5 quart mixture (5 quarts is the easist way to get the ratio's correct for me)

Everyones Mileage may vary and I don't care I'm happy with my method.

Hi Mark,
I use an almost identical homebrew goop. To those wondering, Mark and I have developed our solutions independently. I also add a few drops of Windex. But then, I use Windex for everything. It's kind of like a good hot sauce which I use on everything except salad. This is New Mexico, you know. :thmbsp: I only use Photoflow and no detergent. The main difference may be that I use 99% pure isopropyl alcohol. Perhaps you do too.

I have had my fingers rapped here for my sloppy, simple cleaning solution. But using it with my VPI 17 RCM I have had very good results with it for over 30 years. My basic attitude is if I can't hear it, it ain't there. Clean is clean. Nothing more is needed.

I know the snake oil salesmen hate my simple minded attitude. Tough!!

Sparky

The main difference may be that I use 99% pure isopropyl alcohol. Perhaps you do too.

I have had my fingers rapped here for my sloppy, simple cleaning solution. But using it with my VPI 17 RCM I have had very good results with it for over 30 years. My basic attitude is if I can't hear it, it ain't there. Clean is clean. Nothing more is needed.

I know the snake oil salesmen hate my simple minded attitude. Tough!!

Sparky

I've found that one of the local (non-chain) pharmacy's carries 99% and have been using that almost exclusively.

Good time tested input. I tend to agree with your results-oriented philosophy. If it sounds good......:thmbsp:

And what about that final rinsing - is it worth it without the wetting agent? And also, there is another issue - I've been using warm water, but in a previous post it was stated that the wetting agent will not dissolve well above certain temperature...

The Canadian Conservation Institute (CCI) recommends the use of nonionic, ethelyne oxide condensates surfactants to clean sound recordings. The CCI does not foresee long-term problems associated with the use of nonionic surfactants such as Tergitol. Tergitol 15-S-3 is an oil soluble surfactant and 15-S-9 is a water soluble surfactant. Combined they remove a wide range of dirt and greases and can safely be used on sound recordings. Use 0.25 part of Tergitol 15-S-3 and 0.25 parts of Tergitol 15-S-9 per 100 parts of distilled water. (These products are available in small quantities from TALAS (Division of Technical Library Service Inc) 213 West 35th Street, New York, N.Y. (212) 465-8722.) The recording must then be rinsed thoroughly with distilled water to eliminate any trace of detergent residue. Keep an airgun handy to blow off light surface dust.

Grooved discs

Grooved discs are best cleaned using a record cleaning machine such as the Keith Monks, VPI, Nitty Gritty using 0.25 part of Tergitol 15-S-3 and 0.25 parts of Tergitol 15-S-9 per 100 parts of distilled water. These machines allow for an even dispersion of fluid and can then vacuum the liquid leaving a clean, dry surface. The discs must then be rinsed thoroughly with distilled water and vacuumed dry to eliminate any trace of detergent residue. Records should be cleaned before each playback.

Clean Vulcanite discs showing signs of acid build up using 0.25 part of Tergitol 15-S-3 and 0.25 parts of Tergitol 15-S-9 per 100 parts of distilled water and rinse thoroughly.

Clean acetate discs showing signs of palmitic acid deposits (white greasy substance on acetate disc surface) as if cleaning LPs, except add 1 part ammonia per 100 to the Tergitol cleaning solution. Do not use ammonia on shellac based discs.

http://apps.webcreate.com/ecom/catalog/product_specific.cfm?ClientID=15&ProductID=17376

If someone has a source for reasonably priced dionized water, please post

3:1 distilled water and 99% IPA, with 3-4 drops of Dr. Bonner's baby soap per .5 L solution.

The Canadian Conservation Institute (CCI) recommends the use of nonionic, ethelyne oxide condensates surfactants to clean sound recordings.......

Grooved discs are best cleaned using a record cleaning machine such as the Keith Monks, VPI, Nitty Gritty using 0.25 part of Tergitol 15-S-3 and 0.25 parts of Tergitol 15-S-9 per 100 parts of distilled water.
If someone has a source for reasonably priced dionized water, please post

HI,
Since I only trust honest and hands on time tested experience, I must ask if YOU use your suggested method? Or, are you just another reader and not a do'er?

Sparky

That's been my DIY fluid for my Nitty Gritty Mini Pro, and I can't say the Nitty Gritty or Record Doctor stuff performed any better. It's about $25 for a pint delivered and at .25 parts would make 400 pints or so. I've been using grocery store steam distilled water, though I'd like try the triple distilled deionized stuff, just balk at what is costs.
It is very difficult to A/B solutions obviously, but I've rarely felt the records could be any cleaner after one pass and I did feel that way more often with the other two fluids.

Well that clears that up. I didn't realize Dawn acted as a wetting agent. I thought it was for cleansing only and photoflo was purely for breaking down the surface tension of the water. Thanks.

Additionally, among the other properties of the 'wetting agent' is so that the fluid doesn't tend to 'bead' on the record -- whereas it would sit atop the grooves. The wetting agent thus makes the fluid flow deep down into the grooves to loosen up gunk in them.

I do it the simple way. Die and perfume free dish soap, toss the record in the sink, brush, rinse, dry.

Since this is a very recent thread, would anyone mind if I hi-jacked it slightly; though still on topic.

When the subject of record cleaning fluids come up, what people are usually referring to are record washing solutions, and it seems that any reasonable cleaning agent will work. Though I do like the idea of a drop or two of anti-bacterial soap as an anti-fungal agent.

But let's make a distinction between washing and cleaning.

Cleaning is what I do just before I play a record.

Washing it what I do when I want to thoroughly clean a record.

So, does anyone have any ideas for what I could use before listening to a record, just to remove basic dust and dirt.

Right now I have a small 3 ounce spray bottle, with distilled water to which I've added a couple drops of alcohol, and maybe one drop of 'Orange Blast' general purpose citrus-based cleaner/degreaser. I've tried other 'Orange' cleaners but they are filled with dyes and perfumes that drive me crazy from the stink.

"Orange Blast" - A proprietary blend of Alkaline detergents and natural organic extract.

Keep in mind that I want minimum residue from this cleaner for routine cleaning, so only a drop in 3 ounces. All I really want is for any dust and dirt to cling to the micro-fiber cloth, and for the 'fluid' to help clean any grease from finger prints, etc....

This is probably a mild enough solution that I could drink the whole 3 oz even thought the alcohol is denatured and the 'Blast' cleaner can't be good for you.

Usually I just sprits a mist onto my micro-fiber cloth, then wipe down the record, so the amount I'm actually using is very small.

Am I on the right track, or should I skip all this and just stick with distilled water?

So, while it is excellent to get record washing fluid recommendations, does any one have any ideas on pre-play record cleaning fluids???

Steve/bluewizard

3:1 distilled water and 99% IPA, with 3-4 drops of Dr. Bonner's baby soap per .5 L solution.

In other words PMsummer, your cleaning solution is 33% Alcohol? That is way too much, you're killing your records! Mark

HI,
Since I only trust honest and hands on time tested experience, I must ask if YOU use your suggested method? Or, are you just another reader and not a do'er?

Sparky

Then who is it who YOU trust Sparky, with honest, and time tested experience? Would I be correct in saying only your own? Mark

in other words pmsummer, your cleaning solution is 33% alcohol? That is way too much, you're killing your records! Mark

3:1 = 75% h2o, 25% ipa.

3:1 = 75% h2o, 25% ipa.

You'r correct PM, what school did I go to!? lol
Still, quite a high concentration of IPA.
I would seriously consider trying a DIY containing less of it. Mark

I was also in the 75%-25% camp, but Jim from Osage also gave me the same advice, never use alcohol on records in a concentration higher than 10%.

After switching I haven't noticed any difference in how clean the records look/sound.

I was also in the 75%-25% camp, but Jim from Osage also gave me the same advice, never use alcohol on records in a concentration higher than 10%.

After switching I haven't noticed any difference in how clean the records look/sound.

Ok, I admit I am as dense as a log.

How about some simple math inorder to create lets say a gallon of cleaning fluid. what are the actual measurements in ounces???

There appears to be 2 types being discussed here, the cheapie version with baby soap, distilled water and Isopropal Alcohol and then high end mix using surfactants such as Tergitol.

I am using a Nitty Gritty machine

Guidance please?:scratch2:

Hey folks, don't rush up to the bar anytime too soon:banana:

Is it most of you are as bad at math as I am? Or you have a conspiracy to keep it all a secret from me?:scratch2:

"Come help a guy out here" (to quote the great Beettlejuice)!

Hey folks, don't rush up to the bar anytime too soon:banana:

Is it most of you are as bad at math as I am? Or you have a conspiracy to keep it all a secret from me?:scratch2:

"Come help a guy out here" (to quote the great Beettlejuice)!

Assuming you wish to make a gallon of water/IPA/dawn cleaner with a 10 percent level of alcohol, the results would be about:

116.4 ounces distilled water
11.64 ounces 91% or better IPA
one or two drops Dawn
total = 128.04 ounces (not counting drops of Dawn)

Ok, people...2 cups in a pint, 2 pints in a quart, 4 quarts in a gallon.

That makes a pint (2 cups) equal to 1/8th of a gallon, which is 12.5%.

So, for 10% add a little less than 2 cups.

Actually, I think it would be 1.6 cups. A cup is 8 ounces (0.6 x 8 = 4.8 ounces); so, 1 cup and 5 ounces of alcohol (13 ounces).

Of course, that make a solution of 10% of 91% alcohol. If my calculation are correct, you would need to actually add 14.28 ounces of 91% to make a true 10%.

If you have 70% alcohol or some other variation, simply divide 13 ounces by the percent of alcohol converted to a decimal number. So, 70% is .70, to find ounces of 70% we divide 13 by .70 to get 18.57 ounces.

Again, if you want absolutely 10.00000% solution, the math gets complex, but do you really need that level of precision? Throw in about 2 cups and close enough.

Here is my method, using supplies from the plumbing store, I made a couple of disks with rubber and foam gasket to seal off the labels. I tighten them together with a wing nut, #10 screw, and large metal washer seal with rubber washers.

I also found some fuzzy painter pads at the hardware store that don't have the plastic backing on them; just fuzz and foam.

1.) rinse the record with warm tap water (soft water in my case).
2.) wipe the wet record with a fuzzy painters pad to which liquid detergent has been added. Currently using Crystal White. Scrub in a circular fashion allowing the fuzz to reach down into the grooves.
3.) rinse all the soap off with tap water.
4.) spray the record with full strength IPA alcohol. Then a quick scrub with a different painter's pad. Then a thorough rinse. This makes sure all the soap is removed.
5.) dry thoroughly with a clean micro-fiber cloth.
6.) spray with distilled water. Scrub with a completely different fuzzy pad. Then dry with a completely different micro-fiber towel.
7.) remove the label protector and wipe up any minor seepage of water onto the label. It is usually very very little if you have tightened the screw sufficiently.
8.) Let air dry for a while before you put it back into the jacket.

That's how I do it now, though it will probably change over time, as I refine it more.

Some will say the full strength (70%) alcohol is a bad idea, but remember it is only on the record for a few seconds while I scrub it. Then it is rinsed and towel dried. The alcohol thins and blends with any soap residue that may remain, so it can all be rinsed of with tap water.

I'm not 100% sure this is the best method, but it is where I'm at now given the limited resources I have.

Steve/bluewizard

Ok, people...2 cups in a pint, 2 pints in a quart, 4 quarts in a gallon.

That makes a pint (2 cups) equal to 1/8th of a gallon, which is 12.5%.

So, for 10% add a little less than 2 cups.

Actually, I think it would be 1.6 cups. A cup is 8 ounces (0.6 x 8 = 4.8 ounces); so, 1 cup and 5 ounces of alcohol (13 ounces).

Of course, that make a solution of 10% of 91% alcohol. If my calculation are correct, you would need to actually add 14.28 ounces of 91% to make a true 10%.

If you have 70% alcohol or some other variation, simply divide 13 ounces by the percent of alcohol converted to a decimal number. So, 70% is .70, to find ounces of 70% we divide 13 by .70 to get 18.57 ounces.

Again, if you want absolutely 10.00000% solution, the math gets complex, but do you really need that level of precision? Throw in about 2 cups and close enough.

Here is my method, using supplies from the plumbing store, I made a couple of disks with rubber and foam gasket to seal off the labels. I tighten them together with a wing nut, #10 screw, and large metal washer seal with rubber washers.

I also found some fuzzy painter pads at the hardware store that don't have the plastic backing on them; just fuzz and foam.

1.) rinse the record with warm tap water (soft water in my case).
2.) wipe the wet record with a fuzzy painters pad to which liquid detergent has been added. Currently using Crystal White. Scrub in a circular fashion allowing the fuzz to reach down into the grooves.
3.) rinse all the soap off with tap water.
4.) spray the record with full strength IPA alcohol. Then a quick scrub with a different painter's pad. Then a thorough rinse. This makes sure all the soap is removed.
5.) dry thoroughly with a clean micro-fiber cloth.
6.) spray with distilled water. Scrub with a completely different fuzzy pad. Then dry with a completely different micro-fiber towel.
7.) remove the label protector and wipe up any minor seepage of water onto the label. It is usually very very little if you have tightened the screw sufficiently.
8.) Let air dry for a while before you put it back into the jacket.

That's how I do it now, though it will probably change over time, as I refine it more.

Some will say the full strength (70%) alcohol is a bad idea, but remember it is only on the record for a few seconds while I scrub it. Then it is rinsed and towel dried. The alcohol thins and blends with any soap residue that may remain, so it can all be rinsed of with tap water.

I'm not 100% sure this is the best method, but it is where I'm at now given the limited resources I have.

Steve/bluewizard

NOW THAT'S:thmbsp::thmbsp::thmbsp: WHAT I CALL A RESPONSE:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Thanks for working it for me! Can this stuff just be added to the Nitty Gritty's tank and clean from it?

So, is it correct to assume in order to get a homebrew solution using 91% to a consistency of 10% IPA you'd mix at a ratio of approximately 7 parts DW and 1 part IPA, more or less?

Close enough for thrift store work.

Has anybody tried rinsing with water from a Brita (or similar) water filter?

Rick

So, is it correct to assume in order to get a homebrew solution using 91% to a consistency of 10% IPA you'd mix at a ratio of approximately 7 parts DW and 1 part IPA, more or less?

Close enough for thrift store work.

What is 1/8th? Is it not 12.5%, and is 12.5% close enough for you or not?

If it is, that's fine, and if it is not, then use the recommended 13 ounces. Thirteen ounces or 1.6 cups, again unless my math is wrong, will give you a 10% solution of 91% IPA.

Actually, 13 ounces is 10.15625% of a gallon.

Still not close enough, if you can measure it, then use a 12.8 ounces per gallon container for an exact 10.00% solution.

8 oz = 1 cup
16 oz = 2 cups = 1 pint
32 oz = 4 cups = 1 quart
128 oz = 16 cups = 1 gallon

To find any percent solution of a gallon container, multiply 128 by the decimal equivalent of the percentage.

5% solution-
.05 x 128 = 6.4 ounces

20% solution -
.2 x 128 = 25.6 ounces

40% solution -
.4 x 128 = 51.2 ounces

ETC...

Basic math.

Steve/bluewizard

I repeat this question as it may have been missed...

"Can this stuff just be added to the Nitty Gritty's tank and clean from it? :scratch2:

I do

What is 1/8th? Is it not 12.5%, and is 12.5% close enough for you or not?

If it is, that's fine, and if it is not, then use the recommended 13 ounces. Thirteen ounces or 1.6 cups, again unless my math is wrong, will give you a 10% solution of 91% IPA.

Actually, 13 ounces is 10.15625% of a gallon.

Still not close enough, if you can measure it, then use a 12.8 ounces per gallon container for an exact 10.00% solution.

8 oz = 1 cup
16 oz = 2 cups = 1 pint
32 oz = 4 cups = 1 quart
128 oz = 16 cups = 1 gallon

To find any percent solution of a gallon container, multiply 128 by the decimal equivalent of the percentage.

5% solution-
.05 x 128 = 6.4 ounces

20% solution -
.2 x 128 = 25.6 ounces

40% solution -
.4 x 128 = 51.2 ounces

ETC...

Basic math.

Steve/bluewizard

I can do the simple math and know how many cups make a gallon and how many ounces are in each thank you.

I currently am using a solution of 4 parts DW, 1 part 91% IPA, and 1 drop of Dawn. Without doing the "complex math", that gives me a true IPA concentration of around 18%. According to some, including Osage Audio, that is too much IPA. But, according to them, IPA is not necessary anyway. Either way, I have not noticed any problem using my ratio over the years and will stick with IPA.

Some of us are not making gallon batches. It would be nice to have a simple ratio, plus or minus, to get you nearest the 10% IPA concentration recommended no matter the amount we are making.

It is my assumption in order to get the homebrew solution close to a 10% IPA concentration you'd mix 7 parts DW with 1 part 91% IPA and however many drops of Dawn that float your boat or the crud out of the grooves. A 12.5% ratio would give me a true IPA concentration of a little more than 11% (more than acceptable in my book).

Is this correct? I'm not that anal (although I do question that at times like these) I just want to try the new formula and see if I get acceptable results. It would be nice to have a simple ratio to get myself and others there.

My head hurts. I'm going to spin some tunes.

Has anybody tried rinsing with water from a Brita (or similar) water filter?

Rick

I wondered about this too. Def. cheaper in the long run vs buying distilled or deionized water.

Photoflo, in it's standard form, is about 20 times more concentrated than your typical dishwashing liquid and it is considerably more expensive. Dawn or Palmolive or any other good quality dishwashing liquid is totally acceptable, as long as it is the so-called non-allergy formulae. Regular dishwashing liquid contains detergents plus dyes and perfumes and emollients to make the hands soft.

So, if you do use Photoflo you need only 2 - 3 drops of it per gallon of solution. Any more is too much. Also, more than 10% alcohol by volume is too much for the long-term health of vinyl, especially if ethanol is used. Don't use rubbing alcohol as this often contains glycerine, which would make it hard to rinse off the record.

Also, if you use any non-liquid ingredients in your recipe, do filter your concoction after it's mixed using a coffee or high-grade paint filter, making sure the container it's filtered into and whatever device holds the filter is thoroughly clean.

It takes longer to write or tell the instructions than it takes to do......

First to CornBread

1/8th of a gallons is 16 ounces. 1/10th of a gallon is 12.8 ounces. To get an absolute 10% solution of alcohol, we divide 10% by the percent of alcohol

12.8 oz / .91 = 14.07 oz.

16 ounces of 91% = 16 x .91 to get pure = 14.56 ounces.

So, your method is within .49 ounces of being perfect. I say that is close enough.


To find 10% of anything is simple because you simply move the decimal point to the left one place. If you are making a pint (16 oz) then you need 1.6 oz of 100% alcohol. To find the amount for diluted alcohol, divide by the dilution.

So -

70% alcohol is 1.6/.7 = 2.28 ounces.

91% alcohol is 1.6/.91 = 1.76 ounces.

10% of a cup or 8 ounces, is .8 ounces. Divide this by the dilution of the alcohol and you will have exactly what you need for 10%.



Off on another subject, I considered using drinking alcohol, specifically Vodka, as a solvent for cleaning records. So, I was in the liquor store and bought a half pint of low cost vodka. Some local stuff distilled in Minnesota.

When I got home I decided to do a test to see how much and what kind of residue various substances left. So I took some large drinking glasses, polished the bottoms, and put several drops of 70% Isoproply alcohol, 91% IPA, 40% Silver Wolf Vodka, and common grocery store distilled water on the glasses an waited for them to dry.

The 70% alcohol, as I knew it would from using it as a solvent and degreaser, left a haze similar to what you would see from dried hard water. Though it wiped off the glass very easily and was very thin and light.

The 91% left no noticeable residue; unnoticeable to either sight or touch.

I've often wondered whether the haze left by alcohol came from the water that was used as a filler, or if it was residue of the denaturing agent? Still don't know for sure.

The Silver Wolf vodka which should be nothing but pure triple distilled grain alcohol, left a thick sticky syrup-like residue. It was like diluted sugar syrup. I'm not sure if this is because they literally added sugar to tame the nasty taste or if they added glycerin to give it some texture. Either way, cheap vodka is clearly not for record cleaning. Now what am I going to do with a half pint of really bad tasting vodka?

Finally common grocery store distilled water left no noticeable residue.

Keep in mind that I only used a few drops of each. Likely if I boiled down a cup or so of distilled water, I might find some residue. But I don't see myself letting a cup of water evaporate off of my albums, so I'm not worried.

Overall this is about what I expected. I knew 70% would leave a film, was pleasantly surprised to see that 91% left no noticeable trace.

I was extremely disappointed but the thick syrup left by common 80 proof vodka. I'm still puzzled about that?

This test established to me that common distilled water is good enough for me. Besides, I've got three gallons of it, I'm not letting it go to waste. And from now on, if alcohol is going to be left on long enough to dry, it is going to be 91% diluted with distilled water.

Just thought I would pass that along.

Steve/bluewizard

If anyone local would like to try the Canadian Conservation Institute recipe I just got a delivery of fresh Tergitol 15-S-3 and Tergitol 15-S-9. If you can lay your hands on a gallon of distilled DI water I'll hook you up with the surfactants. It's about a third of an ounce of each per gallon.