View Full Version : PS Audio Power Plant Premier vs RGPC


PHC1
01-22-2009, 06:40 PM
The PS Audio PPP has arrived. :banana:

There was a nagging question in my mind to see what the effects of truly clean AC would be on the system. What's wrong with the RGPC gear (600S/Pole Pig)? Nothing wrong per say, it added a wonderful benefit to my system. I've experienced an increase in micro and macro dynamics, the background noise level went significantly down, blacker blacks and the ground loop hum I had was gone. Still, the question was, is a purified AC better, the same or worse than a "regenerated AC".

The differences between the RGPC and PPP are obvious, one is a power conditioner, the other is an AC regenerator. One purifies and filters the ripples and noise spikes riding on AC waveform, the other takes the dirty AC and creates a completely new, fresh AC wave for you gear to draw from.

I started out the comparison by listening to RGPC setup the way I have it to have a fresh reference point. I then unplugged the RGPC and plugged all my gear into my dedicated line with a multi receptacle extension cord with 501s going to the wall sockets directly. Again, the background noise level went up, the soundstage was no longer as transparent, blacks or the "silence between the notes" that leave nothing but the sense of acoustical space were no longer black, they were gray. There was a slight hum coming from the speakers. The micro and macro dynamics were now squashed. Mid and upper bass became sloppier, midrange and especially vocals were noticeably rougher sounding. The highs took on that glassy, harsher character. The brass lost its shimmer and glow.

With the PPP in the system, I familiarized myself with the different options available from both the remote control and the front panel.

I do have to back up a bit at this point, of course the curiosity in me got the best of me once I saw that the PPP offers the information on AC in, AC out and more importantly the THD (total harmonic distortion of AC) both in and out. After unplugging the RGPC, I took the PPP around the house to see if the THD display may be a hoax??? :D I would have been skeptical if the THD was the same all throughout the house. No, the THD levels and even the voltage levels were different on different wall sockets with repeatable and consistent results of trying a few times, just to see if I can confuse the PPP. :D The THD levels fluctuated between .9% and 2.4% at different locations. Can't fool this sucker. :no:

Now, of course I just had to see what would happen if I plugged the PPP into the RGPC gear.... Interesting results. With the RGPC 600s, the THD remained the same at .9%. With the Pole Pig, both by itself and in combination with the 600S, the THD, was a whopping 2.9%... :scratch2: More on this later.

Now to the listening part.

The PPP plugged in, all the gear plugged in their own respective power banks which are supposedly isolated from each other with IsoZones that use the inductors built from Nano-Crystalline strips with high permeability soft magnetic material and provide magnetic filtering.


Gear warmed up for 20 minutes and I sat down to listen. Voltage in 118, voltage out a steady 120, AC THD 2.4% coming in, .3% coming out to the gear. (Strangely enough, my dedicated line in my listening rooms had one of the worst THD readings? :scratch2: 2.4% THD. Maybe my electrician screwed up, I'll have to have a talk with him :yes:).

The first thing that struck me was the difference in the overall presentation with the PPP vs RGPC. Playing familiar tracks of various recordings, the macro dynamics and transients, specifically leading edge and the "attack" was much more pronounced with the PPP. The PPP is quite a bit different I thought, the RGPC had a pronounced effect but not to this level. :scratch2:

The initial reaction was as if the resolution of the system went up a few notches and a few thin veils were removed. As I listened more, the new level of resolution persisted. The system sounds quite a bit more resolving and dynamic. This in itself is not always a great thing, it can be fatiguing in the long run. Here is the real kicker though, all that resolution and no fatigue after a few hours of listening... :thmbsp: More listening time needed but so far I like what I hear a lot. There is a sense of homogeneity to the sound, there is "more" but that "more" is also very natural sounding. No edginess to the highs, they shimmer and glow, bass is nice and tight with the same definition and resolution. Kick drum has the deep, involving impact, drum heads skin resonate with every stroke, midrange is wonderful, violins are sweet and seductive, voices are expressive and emotional.

If I had to sum it up, there is an increased level of resolution, the harmonics are accentuated but none of this causes any edginess or fatigue. It's almost like having your cake and eating it too. :thmbsp: I would imagine the pure AC sinewave really does bring out the best of the gear and the recording, you hear what you were intended to hear from both the gear and the recording.

So how does it compare to RGPC? I plugged the RGPC gear back in and I am still listening but this "older sound" is a bit more familiar to me since I've spent so much time listening to RGPC before.

The best way to describe it would be that although the RGPC increases dynamics, it is still a bit laid back by comparison. The RGPC has a slightly darker overall presentation, there is more emphasis on the overall acoustical space, you hear a little deeper into the soundstage.

I'd say the blacks are a little blacker, there is absolutely no hum with the RGPC, there was a tiny, tiny bit with the PPP from the left speaker, barely detectible by putting the ear right next to the speaker. The soundstage is a little more back, you are sitting a few rows further from the center stage.

So the two are a bit different, the PPP has more of hi-fi'ish effect on the system, the RGPC, more of a laid back presentation and effect on the system. Think Mark Levinson vs Krell "house sounds" here and you will understand the approximate difference between the two.

There is enough difference between the two where one can easily tweak the system one way or the other to their advantage. :yes:

There are a few things that PPP has to offer such as a "clean wave" de-gaussing wave that is to be used once in while. There is also a Multi-Wave that extends the peaks of the AC coming out to "deep charge" the capacitors, acting like a bigger power reserve. I will need to spend more time to see what they offer.

I am definitely keeping both, never know when one needs to tweak the system and which way. :yes: One thing for sure, either one completely smokes the untreated power approach, even with the dedicated power line that turned out to be extremely noisy in my own room. :scratch2:

The "noisy THD" Pole Pig has me puzzled at this point but can't argue the fact that it does isolate my front end better, there was absolutely no hum with it and a tiny bit of background noise with the PPP probably due to a ground loop that is much more pronounced with no power conditioning in the system. What really has me curious now is what my electrician did with my dedicated line that he charged me good money for. :smoke:

Video of Paul McGowan explaining the PPP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL1Wjeq7eHY

chuckworkb
01-22-2009, 06:51 PM
Funny you should mention another power conditioner thread. Stay tuned! :thmbsp:

I was wondering what you meant when you said that, now I know.

This was a great write up. Thanks for your insight on the subject. I read it twice, and am watching the video. Very informative.

Klipschpyro
01-22-2009, 06:58 PM
Nice write up.

What music do you use as a reference while performing your tests?

Stillone
01-22-2009, 07:00 PM
Wow, great write up. I have been looking for someone to review the PPP. I have been considering one since they came out. I have no love for the RG products, they were the shortest lived products ever to venture into my system.

Did I miss it it your review? What equipment did you connect thru the PPP? Power and sources?
Jim

howiebrou
01-22-2009, 07:00 PM
Great write up Serge. I also have a PPP working its way to me right now!

What I wasn't sure was whether you also ;

a) tried plugging your RGPC units into the PPP and then your gear into the RGPC or

b) whether you tried plugging your RGPC into neighbouring wall sockets and then the gear directly into the PPP or

c) whether you tried plugging your 600s into one socket on the PPP, the Pole Pig into another socket on the PPP and then all your gear into the Pole Pig :scratch2:

Hope that makes sense!

howie

lyle1
01-22-2009, 07:17 PM
I have had my PPP for a couple of months now. I enjoy it immensely, however I plug my 501's directly into individual 20 amp circuits. My dealer said the PPP doesn't have enough "juice" for my c2300, MCD 500, LCD tv, Sat receiver, and Blu-ray player and above all two 501s'. What are your thoughts?

forzaroma
01-22-2009, 07:22 PM
Great write-up Serge. It matches my experience with the PPP quite well. I did not do a proper review of the PPP because I only had the unit for a couple of days - and I prefer at least a couple of weeks before I am sure about what I am hearing.

The PPP definitely resulted in a more HiFi sound but - as I am finding out more and more often - I seem to prefer a more laid-back, slightly darker sound.

I also did some experiments with the THD. One of them was to measure the THD with several noisy appliances (e.g. hair dryers, heaters, fans, switching power supplies) on the same circuit. Much to my disappointment, the input and output THD never varied. I was sure that having a hair dryer plugged right next to my preamp would create some havok - but apparently it didn't.

Now that my room is properly treated, I think I can afford to venture a bit further into HiFi sound, and the PPP (a black one) is on my shopping list for some future time.

Thanks again for taking the time to write this up.

Alberto

PHC1
01-22-2009, 07:49 PM
Nice write up.

What music do you use as a reference while performing your tests?

Yamamoto Trio-Midnight Sugar for mid/upper bass resolution, texture. Also great for transient response, leading and trailing edges and attack/decay with excellent, icy, crisp piano recording. Also Dean Peer Ucross, incredible transients. :yes:

Various recordings of Diana Krall/Rebecca Pidgeon/Nnenna Freelon/Alison Krauss/Patricia Barber - midrange purity, tonality.

Various "Mapleshade" recordings for soundstage. (especially Joe Stanley-King of Honky Tonk Sax and the Loud Minority Band) excellent spatial information, soundstage should fill up your room way beyond the speaker edges, depending on the speakers.

I have many CDs but I always try to narrow it down to about 7-9 familiar recordings for comparisons of gear. Otherwise it gets a little tough. Some CDs are so burned in to your mind that you know them like the back of your hand. :yes:


I couldn't test for low bass as my subs were not connected to the PPP or the RGPC. But the Sheffield Labs drum test CD and Haggard-"awakening the centuries" provided some deep bass fun. Led Zep Moby Dick is always fun as you follow the drums across the soundstage.

Once I go through the various audiophile checks, I will usually play a few favorite CDs to "take it all in" and "tie it all together".

PHC1
01-22-2009, 07:51 PM
Wow, great write up. I have been looking for someone to review the PPP. I have been considering one since they came out. I have no love for the RG products, they were the shortest lived products ever to venture into my system.

Did I miss it it your review? What equipment did you connect thru the PPP? Power and sources?
Jim

All my gear except the subs were plugged in to the PPP as they were into RGPC/Pole Pig. The PPP is good for 1500w. The RGPC was rated lower but I've never run into any problems.

PHC1
01-22-2009, 07:53 PM
Great write up Serge. I also have a PPP working its way to me right now!

What I wasn't sure was whether you also ;

a) tried plugging your RGPC units into the PPP and then your gear into the RGPC or

b) whether you tried plugging your RGPC into neighbouring wall sockets and then the gear directly into the PPP or

c) whether you tried plugging your 600s into one socket on the PPP, the Pole Pig into another socket on the PPP and then all your gear into the Pole Pig :scratch2:

Hope that makes sense!

howie
Have not tried any of the "combos" yet. Other than seeing what the THD would be with the RGPC plugged into the wall first and into the PPP. Like I mentioned above, the 600s did not improve or worsen the THD coming out of the wall but the Pole Pig did introduce a little THD of its own.

PHC1
01-22-2009, 07:55 PM
I have had my PPP for a couple of months now. I enjoy it immensely, however I plug my 501's directly into individual 20 amp circuits. My dealer said the PPP doesn't have enough "juice" for my c2300, MCD 500, LCD tv, Sat receiver, and Blu-ray player and above all two 501s'. What are your thoughts?
I don't foresee any problems with my setup just like I didn't have problems with the lower rated RGPC when plugged directly into it instead of parallel configuration. :scratch2:

PHC1
01-22-2009, 07:59 PM
Great write-up Serge. It matches my experience with the PPP quite well. I did not do a proper review of the PPP because I only had the unit for a couple of days - and I prefer at least a couple of weeks before I am sure about what I am hearing.

The PPP definitely resulted in a more HiFi sound but - as I am finding out more and more often - I seem to prefer a more laid-back, slightly darker sound.

I also did some experiments with the THD. One of them was to measure the THD with several noisy appliances (e.g. hair dryers, heaters, fans, switching power supplies) on the same circuit. Much to my disappointment, the input and output THD never varied. I was sure that having a hair dryer plugged right next to my preamp would create some havok - but apparently it didn't.

Now that my room is properly treated, I think I can afford to venture a bit further into HiFi sound, and the PPP (a black one) is on my shopping list for some future time.

Thanks again for taking the time to write this up.

Alberto
Hmm, like I mentioned, the various wall sockets presented slightly different voltages and THD around the house. You know me, :D I double checked them all. Consistent results! Doesn't seem to be any gimmickry here. :no:


Keep in mind Alberto, so far all the benefits have not caused any listening fatigue but brought on a new sense of openness, transparency and increased dynamics. Hi-Fi sounding? Yes, you could say that but there is no price to pay, yet.... I like it! :thmbsp:

mchydro
01-22-2009, 08:06 PM
Have not tried any of the "combos" yet. Other than seeing what the THD would be with the RGPC plugged into the wall first and into the PPP. Like I mentioned above, the 600s did not improve or worsen the THD coming out of the wall but the Pole Pig did introduce a little THD of its own.

I too am intrigued by the PPP. However, its interaction with the RGPC gear puzzles me.

According to RGPC, regarding their 1200C: "Two on-board 6,000 Watt parallel chokes provide double the high-current-on-demand while lowering the noise floor an additional 50 percent".

Shouldn't the PPP detect a THD improvement from a 600s or 1200c if they are truly lowering the noise floor? If not, what does lowering the noise floor mean?

Also, if an isolation device like the Pole Pig also has THD, what's the real benefit of the isolation? Simply ground loop removal? In other words, does a PPP make a Pole Pig obsolete?

I'm confused! :yes:

mchydro
01-22-2009, 08:11 PM
To add to my previous post, let me say that I love the effects that the RGPC products have had on my system. I'm just interested in how I might be able to benefit from a PPP in my system as well.

Klipschpyro
01-22-2009, 08:14 PM
Yamamoto Trio-Midnight Sugar for mid/upper bass resolution, texture. Also great for transient response, leading and trailing edges and attack/decay with excellent, icy, crisp piano recording. Also Dean Peer Ucross, incredible transients. :yes:

Various recordings of Diana Krall/Rebecca Pidgeon/Nnenna Freelon/Alison Krauss/Patricia Barber - midrange purity, tonality.

Various "Mapleshade" recordings for soundstage. (especially Joe Stanley-King of Honky Tonk Sax and the Loud Minority Band) excellent spatial information, soundstage should fill up your room way beyond the speaker edges, depending on the speakers.

I have many CDs but I always try to narrow it down to about 7-9 familiar recordings for comparisons of gear. Otherwise it gets a little tough. Some CDs are so burned in to your mind that you know them like the back of your hand. :yes:


I couldn't test for low bass as my subs were not connected to the PPP or the RGPC. But the Sheffield Labs drum test CD and Haggard-"awakening the centuries" provided some deep bass fun. Led Zep Moby Dick is always fun as you follow the drums across the soundstage.

Once I go through the various audiophile checks, I will usually play a few favorite CDs to "take it all in" and "tie it all together".


Got to love Alison Krauss. Initials......:banana::banana: AK

PHC1
01-22-2009, 08:20 PM
I too am intrigued by the PPP. However, its interaction with the RGPC gear puzzles me.

According to RGPC, regarding their 1200C: "Two on-board 6,000 Watt parallel chokes provide double the high-current-on-demand while lowering the noise floor an additional 50 percent".

Shouldn't the PPP detect a THD improvement from a 600s or 1200c if they are truly lowering the noise floor? If not, what does lowering the noise floor mean?

Also, if an isolation device like the Pole Pig also has THD, what's the real benefit of the isolation? Simply ground loop removal? In other words, does a PPP make a Pole Pig obsolete?

I'm confused! :yes:

I knew someone was going to bring it up. :D I've thought about it before ordering the PPP. The RGPC has a very different approach, those chokes are efficient at dealing with larger fluctuations and they do induce "current on demand" as the field "collapses" from voltage sags induced in turn by demanding transients from the amplifier/speaker load itself. Now, of course those are very short lived but so are the transients usually. Seems the low level THD ripples/noise riding on the AC line goes through the 600s for example, as the PPP shows me.

The Pole Pig does seem to induce some additional THD itself but the results from isolating your front end from amplifiers and everything else does result in decreased level of noise floor. Like I said, there was no audible hum at all with the Pole Pig, there is a tiny amount with PPP from the left speaker. :scratch2:


Different approach, different results. I'll see if I can come up with a combination of both RGPC and PPP that sounds better than either one by itself. :scratch2:

mchydro
01-22-2009, 08:27 PM
I knew someone was going to bring it up. :D I've thought about it before ordering the PPP. The RGPC has a very different approach, those chokes are efficient at dealing with larger fluctuations and they do induce "current on demand" as the field "collapses" from voltage sags induced in turn by demanding transients from the amplifier/speaker load itself. Now, of course those are very short lived but so are the transients usually. Seems the low level THD ripples/noise riding on the AC line goes through the 600s for example, as the PPP shows me.

The Pole Pig does seem to induce some additional THD itself but the results from isolating your front end from amplifiers and everything else does result in decreased level of noise floor. Like I said, there was no audible hum at all with the Pole Pig, there is a tiny amount with PPP from the left speaker. :scratch2:


Different approach, different results. I'll see if I can come up with a combination of both RGPC and PPP that sounds better than either one by itself. :scratch2:

Thanks for the explanation Serge. You have a very good knack of being able to explain things in a very clear manner. We're lucky to have you on this forum! :thmbsp:

I have a feeling the combo approach will be very interesting. I'm pretty sure Ivan is doing that: Wall->PPP->MPC1500->Front End Gear. I know he liked the improvements. I'll be very interested to hear about your results. :yes:

PHC1
01-22-2009, 08:30 PM
To add to my previous post, let me say that I love the effects that the RGPC products have had on my system. I'm just interested in how I might be able to benefit from a PPP in my system as well.

I love the RGPC stuff myself but at this point, I've got give the nod to the PPP with its rock steady voltage output that doesn't fluctuate. I've been monitoring the voltage fluctuations, the PPP actually shows you the difference between the voltage coming in and going out expressed in units, ie, 117 coming in, 120 coming out = 3. The THD has also been rock solid at a fraction of the incoming THD, .3% to .4% while the incoming THD has been all over the map with as low as .9% to a high of 2.4%. I guess my line is not quite as noisy as it was this afternoon but still suspicious for a dedicated line. :scratch2: The HVAC coming on in the house seems to bring the THD up big time, I've noticed so far.

Sonic results wise, the PPP is an exciting product. :yes: So far I like it a lot, I'll let you know in a week or so if my opinion changes. :yes:

howiebrou
01-22-2009, 08:31 PM
I knew someone was going to bring it up. :D I've thought about it before ordering the PPP. The RGPC has a very different approach, those chokes are efficient at dealing with larger fluctuations and they do induce "current on demand" as the field "collapses" from voltage sags induced in turn by demanding transients from the amplifier/speaker load itself. Now, of course those are very short lived but so are the transients usually. Seems the low level THD ripples/noise riding on the AC line goes through the 600s for example, as the PPP shows me.

The Pole Pig does seem to induce some additional THD itself but the results from isolating your front end from amplifiers and everything else does result in decreased level of noise floor. Like I said, there was no audible hum at all with the Pole Pig, there is a tiny amount with PPP from the left speaker. :scratch2:


Different approach, different results. I'll see if I can come up with a combination of both RGPC and PPP that sounds better than either one by itself. :scratch2:


Makes me wonder where to put mine when it arrives. I have an Isotek Titan connected to the wall and then both DSP 8000s connected to it. Additionally I have a RGPC 1200S connected to a different wall socket and everything else is plumbed into that.

I thought of replacing the titan with the ppp then plugging the rgpc into the ppp and keeping the sources plugged into the rgpc or perhaps i should leave the titan with the speakers and replace the 1200 with the ppp.......:scratch2:

PHC1
01-22-2009, 09:26 PM
Makes me wonder where to put mine when it arrives. I have an Isotek Titan connected to the wall and then both DSP 8000s connected to it. Additionally I have a RGPC 1200S connected to a different wall socket and everything else is plumbed into that.

I thought of replacing the titan with the ppp then plugging the rgpc into the ppp and keeping the sources plugged into the rgpc or perhaps i should leave the titan with the speakers and replace the 1200 with the ppp.......:scratch2:

Can't guide you with that, I haven't played around with the different combos. Best thing to do would be to do your own experiments once you get it. :yes:

Don't forget that I also have the active x/o and the twin powered subs so deep bass is off the table for either the RGPC or the PPP. The results may have been different with RGPC vs PPP if that wasn't the case. :scratch2:

masterlu
01-22-2009, 09:28 PM
I have had my PPP for a couple of months now. I enjoy it immensely, however I plug my 501's directly into individual 20 amp circuits. My dealer said the PPP doesn't have enough "juice" for my c2300, MCD 500, LCD tv, Sat receiver, and Blu-ray player and above all two 501s'. What are your thoughts?

Multiple PPP's :yes:

masterlu
01-22-2009, 09:39 PM
OK folks, I thought I would add to Serge's wonderful review!

If you didn't think I was crazy before, I will now remove all doubt.

I use 2 RGPC 1200's on each & every one of my Amps, one in series & one in parallel.

As for every other source & processor I go thru the following units in this order:

1) McIntosh MPC1500

2) PS Audio Powerpack 1500

3) PS Audio Power Plant Premier

The PS Audio Powerpack 1500 is a brand new device from PS Audio, it is in essence an audiophile grade UPS.

This configuration has yielded the absolute best possible audio reproduction from my System.

Yes, I have tried every other conceivable combination. This is my "Magic" recipe.

PHC1
01-22-2009, 09:46 PM
OK folks, I thought I would add to Serge's wonderful review!

If you didn't think I was crazy before, I will now remove all doubt.

I use 2 RGPC 1200's on each & every one of my Amps, one in series & one in parallel.

As for every other source & processor I go thru the following units in this order:

1) McIntosh MPC1500

2) PS Audio Powerpack 1500

3) PS Audio Power Plant Premier

The PS Audio Powerpack 1500 is a brand new device from PS Audio, it is in essence an audiophile grade UPS.

This configuration has yielded the absolute best possible audio reproduction from my System.

Yes, I have tried every other conceivable combination. This is my "Magic" recipe.

Crazy? No, that's dedication my friend. :yes:

PS 1500? :scratch2: So no brownout or even a full power outage can interrupt the music! :thmbsp:

masterlu
01-22-2009, 09:49 PM
Crazy? No, that's dedication my friend. :yes:

PS 1500? :scratch2: So no brownout or even a full power outage can interrupt the music! :thmbsp:

Absolutely, they stack nicely, look awesome & perform flawlessly. :yes:

masterlu
01-22-2009, 09:51 PM
The only problem is I would need 120 of them to keep 440 Amps of current going for 20 minutes. :lmao:

jetblack
01-23-2009, 06:08 AM
Good writeup. 'Blacker blacks' and 'increased resolution & detail' are some of the characteristics I noticed. Now, I can't give all the credit to PPP, because I made multiple upgrades at the same time (PPP, PC's, IC's, Speaker cables).

I have seen the video you mentioned, and seen 'before & after' O-scope displays (I've posted them on AK in the past) related to the PPP. I didn't need to give the PPP a listen before I bought it. I knew what I was getting. :thmbsp:

defilamintkid
01-23-2009, 06:19 PM
Thanks Serge for your review...

I do have a PS Audio Quintessence with the super nano crystaline filter which has done wonders for my system.
THD readouts can vary from 2.5% up to 8.0% (depending on snowbirds more demands on the power lines) but more often than not range 3.5% to 4.8% and I know the only Power Plant Premier can correct this.
You have done what I was hoping to read somewhere...and that is what
improvements if any would the PPP add to a system with allready good line
conditioners.
Perhaps as your PPP burns in your soundstage may mellow some without
losing any sense of dynamics..please keep us posted. BTW about how many hours run time do you have on your PPP ?

Best wishes