... and an idea for McIntosh.

Since I put some rather basic treatment in my room (4 bass traps and 4 absorption panels), I am so happy with the sound that I can't really imagine needing to make any changes. I might WANT to, but definitely not NEED to.

As I go back through my various audio "moves", I now have to wonder how many of those would have been prevented if I had taken care of my listening room first.

I am also starting to doubt my opinion of some gear that in the past I considered too harsh or bright sounding (and wondered how anyone could like that.)

Still, most people resist room treatment for aesthetic reason, I have an idea for McIntosh: room treatments with the McIntosh look. Hey, they've gone into AC treatment territory, I believe that room treatment offers 10x the advantages of AC treatment - at least.

With its talent for making things look good, McIntosh might be able to make bass traps and absorption panels that would look great and get some McIntosh fans off their butts. Perhaps they can even put meters in the bass traps to show how much they are absorbing :D.

Crazy idea, I know, but I think that branded room treatments matching electronics (and possibly speakers) could be a very nice business.

Alberto

Would a room correction software work the same way?

... and an idea for McIntosh.

Since I put some rather basic treatment in my room (4 bass traps and 4 absorption panels), I am so happy with the sound that I can't really imagine needing to make any changes. I might WANT to, but definitely not NEED to.

As I go back through my various audio "moves", I now have to wonder how many of those would have been prevented if I had taken care of my listening room first.

I am also starting to doubt my opinion of some gear that in the past I considered too harsh or bright sounding (and wondered how anyone could like that.)

Still, most people resist room treatment for aesthetic reason, I have an idea for McIntosh: room treatments with the McIntosh look. Hey, they've gone into AC treatment territory, I believe that room treatment offers 10x the advantages of AC treatment - at least.

With its talent for making things look good, McIntosh might be able to make bass traps and absorption panels that would look great and get some McIntosh fans off their butts. Perhaps they can even put meters in the bass traps to show how much they are absorbing :D.

Crazy idea, I know, but I think that branded room treatments matching electronics (and possibly speakers) could be a very nice business.

Alberto

Thanks for sharing Alberto !
But now we need a pic of your room with the traps and the panels.
Just to see how ugly it is now :D ! ( I'm sure it's not ! your origins are from Italy !! )

...

As I go back through my various audio "moves", I now have to wonder how many of those would have been prevented if I had taken care of my listening room first.

Alberto

Glad you had a good experience. Whenever I tell people this they get really grumpy....

They would much rather buy a 1500 dollar power cord than take care of some of the room problems first. Not as sexy.

The even better news is now that your room is sounding better and you can hear further into your system than you could before, it will be a lot easier to hear changes you try going forward.

Enjoy!

The Room is A Speaker

Cosa Abbiamo Detto !

... and an idea for McIntosh.

Since I put some rather basic treatment in my room (4 bass traps and 4 absorption panels), I am so happy with the sound that I can't really imagine needing to make any changes. I might WANT to, but definitely not NEED to.

As I go back through my various audio "moves", I now have to wonder how many of those would have been prevented if I had taken care of my listening room first.

I am also starting to doubt my opinion of some gear that in the past I considered too harsh or bright sounding (and wondered how anyone could like that.)

Still, most people resist room treatment for aesthetic reason, I have an idea for McIntosh: room treatments with the McIntosh look. Hey, they've gone into AC treatment territory, I believe that room treatment offers 10x the advantages of AC treatment - at least.

With its talent for making things look good, McIntosh might be able to make bass traps and absorption panels that would look great and get some McIntosh fans off their butts. Perhaps they can even put meters in the bass traps to show how much they are absorbing :D.

Crazy idea, I know, but I think that branded room treatments matching electronics (and possibly speakers) could be a very nice business.

Alberto


Thanks..
How did you decide what you needed ?

Thanks..
How did you decide what you needed ?

Good Question and also where

Would a room correction software work the same way?
No, the reflections and standing waves are still there with EQ. Diffusion and absorption still have to be used before equalization gives any real benefit.

2nd best money I ever spent was for room treatments.....1st was for the dedicated circuits. From there there on its kinda hit and miss with improvements unless you buy more McIntosh.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_244.html

these traps can be ordered in tons of colors to match your wall. I plan to use them flat in the rear corners when i treat my room later this year.

http://www.asc-hifi.com/products.htm

these guys make a variety of wall panels,and you can even print a photo or picture on some of them. great for first reflection points as well as behind the listener. they also have plenty of other options for bass trapping but look more intrusive.

well that's where my research has led me for my upcoming room treatment but all is dependent on making some measurements once the door is installed.

Good Question and also where

2 13"x3' bass traps.
2 9"x3' bass traps.
4 2'x4'x3" absorption panels

Bass traps in the corners behind the speakers (the 9" on top of the 13").

One absorption panel each for 4 first reflection points (L spkr on R wall, L sprk on L wall, R spkr on R wall, R spkr on L wall).

I have posted some pictures in a previous thread:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205581

Alberto

Alberto,
I couldn't agree with you more. Your approach of bass traps in the front 2 corners and treating the first reflection points goes a long way to solve some of the worst problems in most rooms. This alone will usually have a much greater impact than upgrading any of the gear or cables in the system. I would also suggest using upper corner treatments such as "corner busters" to eliminate the "megaphone" effect as all the frequencies tend to bunch up in them and they are usually very effective.

For those interested in exploring some room treatments, besides the already above mentioned companies, here are a few more:

www.echobusters.com
www.realtraps.com
www.rpginc.com
www.acoustimac.com
www.artandacoustics.com
www.atsacoustics.com

I had an inkling I could coax more out of my system. I had no treatments in my room and decided to get my learn on. I found that www.RealTraps.com had a lot of good info for a beginner like me.

While Ethan has some "unorthodox" views on gear and tweaks, I respect his work on trapping the room. After spending several hours viewing his site, I called him and had a nice discussion and started with a couple of HF Minitraps to go directly behind my speakers. The sound keeps getting better and better as I add more pieces. I'm up to six now and if I can figure out a way, I'd like to have a total of 10 in various sizes and shapes.

The traps were/are the best bang for the buck I've spent. If you have an understanding better half or a dedicated room, give it a try!

Gordon

2nd best money I ever spent was for room treatments.....1st was for the dedicated circuits. From there there on its kinda hit and miss with improvements unless you buy more McIntosh.

Wow, you must have either had a heck of an AC problem or a fantastic room to start with :D.

Or, put it another way, I must have had great AC and a really crappy room to start with. :D

While the benefits of dedicated circuits + RGPC are undeniable in my system, they are nowhere near as noticeable as the room treatment. If I had to give one up, I'd give up the dedicated line without a second thought - but I am REALLY glad to have both and recommend both for serious systems/listening.

Alberto

I would also suggest using upper corner treatments such as "corner busters" to eliminate the "megaphone" effect as all the frequencies tend to bunch up in them and they are usually very effective.

Thanks Serge, I was considering the corner busters as well, but I want to make sure I don't make my room too "dead". But based on your recommendation I will give them a try (they are also the least obtrusive of all the pieces you can get.)

Alberto

Thanks Serge, I was considering the corner busters as well, but I want to make sure I don't make my room too "dead". But based on your recommendation I will give them a try (they are also the least obtrusive of all the pieces you can get.)

Alberto

You've got a long way to go yet before the room would be "too dead". :D
A friend of mine had an "extensive" treatment done with ASC and other stuff, 35-40 various pieces at least. The clarity of speech was amazing while talking in the room and needless to say the music in that room was "HOLOGRAPHIC".

Acoustic Treatments are definitely a must for this calibre of audio.

Here is another acoustic treatment company:

www.auralex.com

Out of the companies listed, which ones are labeled good, better, best?

It seems the pricing for a standard 48" x 24" can very substantially.

You've got a long way to go yet before the room would be "too dead". :D
A friend of mine had an "extensive" treatment done with ASC and other stuff, 35-40 various pieces at least. The clarity of speech was amazing while talking in the room and needless to say the music in that room was "HOLOGRAPHIC".

That's great to hear. I wanted to make sure I was not overdoing it.

Alberto

No, the reflections and standing waves are still there with EQ. Diffusion and absorption still have to be used before equalization gives any real benefit.

Just when I think I can have the cake and eat it too :scratch2:
Thanks for the explanation.

Acoustic Treatments are definitely a must for this calibre of audio.

Here is another acoustic treatment company:

www.auralex.com

Auralex is very good too. The "SpaceArray" is an excellent product to be used on the back of the listening room. :thmbsp:

I have acoustically treated both my living room, even including a couple acoustic panels in my dining room. I have also acoustically treated both rooms of my studio. I used Echo Buster bass traps, and ATS Acoustics panels in 2" thickness closed back, and 4" thickness open back. In the studio I constructed floor to ceiling bass traps in both corners behind the speakers using 2' x 2' x 4" thick open back panels covered in maroon fabric, and 2" x 6" painted wood spacers. The other panels in the both the studio control room (green room), and the studio (red room) are 2" thick closed back panels. Please forgive the moure patterns on the fabric surface in some photos created by the camera.

The end results, both in the living room where my main system is located, and in the studio, far exceeded my hopes for improvement. I highly recommend acoustic treatment of your listening room.

Out of the companies listed, which ones are labeled good, better, best?

It seems the pricing for a standard 48" x 24" can very substantially. I have not tried or come across all of them but ASC, RPG, Echobusters and certain Auralex products are tried and true and all work very well.

I have acoustically treated both my living room, even including a couple acoustic panels in my dining room. I have also acoustically treated both rooms of my studio. I used ATS Acoustics panels in 2" thickness closed back, and 4" thickness open back. In the studio I constructed floor to ceiling bass traps in both corners behind the speakers using 2' x 2' x 4" thick open back panels covered in maroon fabric, and 2" x 6" painted wood spacers. The other panels in the both the studio control room (green room), and the studio (red room) are 2" thick closed back panels. Please forgive the moure patterns on the fabric surface in some photos created by the camera.

The end results, both in the living room where my main system is located, and in the studio, far exceeded my hopes for improvement. I highly recommend acoustic treatment of your listening room.

Nice pixxx! :thmbsp:
How much did those "Audio Ducks" set you back? :scratch2: :D

That system has to look good all the time and it is more important that it be aesthetically pleasing than that it is naturally acoustically pleasing.

That system has to look good all the time and it is more important that it be aesthetically pleasing than that it is naturally acoustically pleasing.

william.keith.......I have struck a nice balance in my living room between the aesthetics of the room and the inclusion, and effectiveness of acoustic treatment, in my opinion. In a shared living space it is important to have a visually pleasing environment that pleases all, while at the same time gaining control of the acoustic anomalies. I would have prefered less congestion in the corner where my right channel speaker is placed, but it took the bass trap, plus two different size panels to control a strong standing wave that was present there.

In my studio I am concerned with eye appeal and contrast, but acoustic control is the primary concern there, since live instruments and voice are present, being recorded, and being evaluated during playback. Controlling acoustic anomolies in the studio and control room is more important than the aesthetics, although they are not necessarily incapable of association or harmonious coexistence.

william.keith.......I have struck a nice balance in my living room between the aesthetics of the room and the inclusion, and effectiveness of acoustic treatment, in my opinion. In a shared living space it is important to have a visually pleasing environment that pleases all, while at the same time gaining control of the acoustic anomalies.

Yes, I believe you have. And your process is consistent with what Gordon Gow recommended. He believed that once you get room aesthetics pleasing, then you address the issue of room treatment based on what the aesthetics impose on the room. He once said, " No amount of excellence in sound balance will ever compensate for an aesthetically displeasing and aesthetically offending system".

That system has to look good all the time and it is more important that it be aesthetically pleasing than that it is naturally acoustically pleasing.

Interesting and potentially VERY controversial quote.

I believe in aesthetics, but putting aesthetically pleasing ahead of acoustically pleasing is quite a position to take.

As much as I'd like to attack the idea of "looks before sound", if I am honest with myself, I find that the aesthetics of my room are VERY important to me. I am not sure I'd put aesthetics ahead of sound, but I believe I can put them on par with sound. Why? Because I don't like to spend time in a room that's messy, or cluttered, or unwelcoming. I like my listening room to be warm and inviting. I'd have a hard time relaxing in a messy, disorganized or "cold" room, and that would definitely detract from the experience.

Interesting topic and idea.

Alberto

Interesting and potentially VERY controversial quote. I believe in aesthetics, but putting aesthetically pleasing ahead of acoustically pleasing is quite a position to take.Alberto


This was direct quote form Gordon Gow. He believed strongly that his audio gear deserved an aesthetically pleasing environment. This is the central element of the McIntosh Forum, too much emphasis on gear and accessories and not enough investment on decor and furnishings.

This was direct quote form Gordon Gow. He believed strongly that his audio gear deserved an aesthetically pleasing environment. This is the central element of the McIntosh Forum, too much emphasis on gear and accessories and not enough investment on decor and furnishings.

william.keith.......Looking at the majority of photos that McIntosh forum members have posted, it is apparent that most take great pride in creating aesthetically pleasing environments in which their sound systems coexist. The focus of the McIntosh forum naturally centers around equipment, with some degree of interest in acoustics. I agree that decor and furnishing are important, but isn't the Ethan Allen forum. :D

This was direct quote form Gordon Gow. He believed strongly that his audio gear deserved an aesthetically pleasing environment. This is the central element of the McIntosh Forum, too much emphasis on gear and accessories and not enough investment on decor and furnishings.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Stevie Wonder has one also.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Stevie Wonder has one also.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
That is funny stuff.

I agree that decor and furnishing are important, but isn't the Ethan Allen forum. :D[/QUOTE]


To be sure. I side with Gordon Gow.

After a bunch of homework, this was my choice:

http://www.kineticsnoise.com/theater/pro.html

They also did a CAD layout of my room and made the design for FREE!

Worked wonders---Good Luck.

I have acoustically treated both my living room, even including a couple acoustic panels in my dining room. I have also acoustically treated both rooms of my studio. I used Echo Buster bass traps, and ATS Acoustics panels in 2" thickness closed back, and 4" thickness open back. In the studio I constructed floor to ceiling bass traps in both corners behind the speakers using 2' x 2' x 4" thick open back panels covered in maroon fabric, and 2" x 6" painted wood spacers. The other panels in the both the studio control room (green room), and the studio (red room) are 2" thick closed back panels. Please forgive the moure patterns on the fabric surface in some photos created by the camera.

The end results, both in the living room where my main system is located, and in the studio, far exceeded my hopes for improvement. I highly recommend acoustic treatment of your listening room.

Those are great foto's

Dan you are a dedicated listener :music::music::music::music: that is for sure

Those are great foto's

Dan you are a dedicated listener :music::music::music::music: that is for sure

It's a good thing the Lord didn't give me four ears. I'd need twice as much audio gear, and be a bigger stereo nut than I am already.

Hmmm. Four ears. Hadn't thought about that before. Maybe 2uberoller could help me out. :D :lmao:

Nah!!!

In 2007 I had my house completely remodeled. As a feature, I had my listening room acoustically designed/sound proofed to optimize the sound from my main system. No additional room treatments are necessary. My second system benefited more from careful speaker placement vs additional room treatments. When I move to Asia in few years I'll probably have to add some sort of room treatments to both of my systems. :music:

Has anyone had any experience with these Elite Pro panels from Auralex?

http://www.auralex.com/acoustic_propanels_c24/c24.asp
http://www.auralex.com/acoustic_propanels_ct45/ct45.asp

I am able to only use two corner panels and possibly two behind each main speaker so the very best will only do.

Versus two corner Mondo Traps from RealTRaps.
http://www.realtraps.com/p_mondotrap.htm

I would think more panels would be better so the Auralex option, but then again, the RealTraps look like they would absorbs more. Which option would you go with?

scanido.......Take a look at the ATS Acoustics site: www.atsacoustics.com . Well made panels, 2' x 2' and 2' x 4' in both 2" and 4" thickness, fabric covered, beveled edges, and the 4' thick panels can be open backed or covered. The open back panels are great at absorbing low frequencies. especially behind speakers and in corners. ATS will also build custome sizes for you on request, and their pricing is reasonable compared to Auralex. They don't have a big national advertising campaign they are trying to pay for in the cost of their products like Auralex.