Picked up Miles Davis' Bitches Brew a couple weeks ago. Never heard it before then. Certainly an interesting piece of work. Just wondered people's thoughts on this early work of jazz fusion that is widely considered a classic.

My impression after just two weeks of listening to it is that it helps me expand my definition of music. In other words, it pushes the limits of what I thought music was or could be -- the multitude of sounds, rhythms, textures, moods, etc.

It's the kind of music that you just don't pop on the turntable/CD player willy nilly. You have to be in the mood for it -- ready to "receive" it. It demands more from the listener.

Hope that makes sense.

I think your description sums it up well for me. You're right that it expands the definition of music and demands something from the listener. :yes:

I've owned the recording for two years and have listened to it maybe three times. I have to be in more of a mindset than a mood to sit and listen to it. :scratch2:

Also, so much of the jazz fusion of the 70s sounds dated to me. For example -- School Days by Stanley Clarke. Loved it when I was in high school. Not so much anymore. Maybe because I grew up listening to alot of 70s fusion when it was new? :dunno:

On the other hand I still buy music from this period because I've had several pleasant experiences "reuniting" with the form/style. For example, work by Jean Luc Ponty still interests me. :yes:

I prefer Davis' earlier work, particularly Kind of Blue. But because Miles Davis was such a innovative, diverse composer/player there's alot of other music of his from which to choose. Definitely one cool cat! :thmbsp:

It's the kind of music that you just don't pop on the turntable/CD player willy nilly. You have to be in the mood for it -- ready to "receive" it. It demands more from the listener.

Hope that makes sense.

Agreed.
But in 30+ years, I've never been in that mood for 4 sides and recently sold my copy on vinyl.

I agree with you 100% , you really have to be in the mood for this album & when you are it's really a pretty cool album .
I also have his live albums from his "noisy era" that are also pretty out there & there is also some live stuff in a "live at montreux" boxed set i have .

Another cool but later album of his i like is "aura" each song is a color in name & it's almost like a dark movie soundtrack , really cool stuff .

I too love "kind of blue" just got the deluxe box set in the mail with the blue vinyl lp !

I have the four disc set of bitches brew and I'll listen to it about one to two times a year. Very good recording dispite the high level of tape noise. Its a serious jazz listeners music and not really ment for back ground music.

I have the four disc set of bitches brew and I'll listen to it about one to two times a year. Very good recording dispite the high level of tape noise. Its a serious jazz listeners music and not really ment for back ground music.

Completely agree here, and actually prefer a lot of the takes/songs on the box set that were cut during those sessions to the stuff that made it on the actual album.

A side note--- in high school (when I really started to become a music 'head') I, quite nerdily, approached my music listening as a historical endeavor....meaning that I took the artists I liked at the time and traced back their musical heritage as far back as I could and listened to that stuff, and read a lot of artist's biographies and such. It got to the point where I almost couldn't enjoy music without context: artist, place of birth, place of recording, year of recording, producer, record company, etc., etc.

When I read Miles's autobiography, and for many years afterwards, I couldn't stand listening to his music- his tone, his phrasing, even the structure of his solos (which is phenomenal) irritated the hell out of me, where I had really, truly loved them before (hence reading the autobiography). Maybe it was because he was selfish and mean-spirited, maybe because it was because he was self-aggrandizing and arrogant, maybe it was because he constantly belittles other artists (many of whom were genuinely, truly more talented than he was), maybe it was just because he was a cokehead and the book would have been about four pages long if you took the word "motherf*cker" out of it, but it severely impacted my enjoyment of his work, especially the post-Gil Evans stuff.

It also severely colored my take on the whole late 60s/early 70s split between Jazz/Rock "fusion" and "free" jazz....to this day a fusion artist really has to work hard to impress me, whereas I'll happily listen to the most far-out gongs and screaming free jazz without batting an eyelash.

Anyone else go through this or am I just ranting?

:lurk:

I want to hear more opinions before I take the plunge. The critics consider it a very important recording which worries me. The critics also revere Pet Sounds as important and all but a few tracks on it bore me to tears.

My impression after just two weeks of listening to it is that it helps me expand my definition of music. In other words, it pushes the limits of what I thought music was or could be -- the multitude of sounds, rhythms, textures, moods, etc.

This, of course, is what's important though. Any music that can do that is doing its job, and certainly Miles can do that with his eyes closed (or with his back turned to the audience ;)).

This is a coincidence! I was down in the shop just this evening, and I had a vinyl copy playing.

:lurk:...I want to hear more opinions before I take the plunge. The critics consider it a very important recording which worries me...

Well, I'm trying to broaden my horizons as well, so I'm listening to lots of new music, some of it "important". I certainly don't like all of it, but that's what learning is all about.

You don't have to like it, but you should listen to it, at least a few times.

Just not my cup of tea.

:lurk:

I want to hear more opinions before I take the plunge. The critics consider it a very important recording which worries me. The critics also revere Pet Sounds as important and all but a few tracks on it bore me to tears.

I agree with you on this one... I like Miles Davis and all but I'll take a good Cannonball Adderley record over one of his any day.

I am a lover of classical Miles.

Completely agree here, and actually prefer a lot of the takes/songs on the box set that were cut during those sessions to the stuff that made it on the actual album.

A side note--- in high school (when I really started to become a music 'head') I, quite nerdily, approached my music listening as a historical endeavor....meaning that I took the artists I liked at the time and traced back their musical heritage as far back as I could and listened to that stuff, and read a lot of artist's biographies and such. It got to the point where I almost couldn't enjoy music without context: artist, place of birth, place of recording, year of recording, producer, record company, etc., etc.

When I read Miles's autobiography, and for many years afterwards, I couldn't stand listening to his music- his tone, his phrasing, even the structure of his solos (which is phenomenal) irritated the hell out of me, where I had really, truly loved them before (hence reading the autobiography). Maybe it was because he was selfish and mean-spirited, maybe because it was because he was self-aggrandizing and arrogant, maybe it was because he constantly belittles other artists (many of whom were genuinely, truly more talented than he was), maybe it was just because he was a cokehead and the book would have been about four pages long if you took the word "motherf*cker" out of it, but it severely impacted my enjoyment of his work, especially the post-Gil Evans stuff.

It also severely colored my take on the whole late 60s/early 70s split between Jazz/Rock "fusion" and "free" jazz....to this day a fusion artist really has to work hard to impress me, whereas I'll happily listen to the most far-out gongs and screaming free jazz without batting an eyelash.

Anyone else go through this or am I just ranting?

Been there done that.

There have been a few artists that have totally turned me off to their work because of their attitude.

The first one that comes to mind is John Fogerty. I read an interview where he was ripping into many other musicians (Mitch Mitchell for one) and even his bandmates and saying how he was responsible for EVERYTHING in CCR. He came off a total jerk in that interview and I find it hard to listen to any of his stuff now. I don't know...it just rubbed me the wrong way. :dunno:

As a rule I try to ignore what artists do or say in their personal lives.

I am in it for the music. :yes: :music: :yes:

I really liked it . I first listened to it when it was released back in the early seventies. If you read his autobiography, he explained why he had to keep pushing the boundaries.
An Artist does not keep re-gurgitating the same stuff over and over. You may not like his later style BUT you have to admit he was constantly and consistently innovative . He was exploring and pushing the envelope.

He may have sucked as a human being but he was a gifted and talented artist.

One of my all time favorite albums........ It was in heavy rotation in my art studio in college, it has chunked away many a mile on road trips and it was crucial to building my new shed last year! The trick for me is that it is really more subliminal than critical listen..... Your mileage may vary but I think it is a classic (both the original and the box set)!

An Artist does not keep re-gurgitating the same stuff over and over. You may not like his later style BUT you have to admit he was constantly and consistently innovative . He was exploring and pushing the envelope.


I certainly respect him for that. Stepping out of your comfort zone to go to new places is not easy and takes guts. :yes:

I have been buying plenty of 70's jazz fusion on vinyl lately but have not come across any of Miles' stuff yet.

I look forward to it.

This is a coincidence! I was down in the shop just this evening, and I had a vinyl copy playing.



Well, I'm trying to broaden my horizons as well, so I'm listening to lots of new music, some of it "important". I certainly don't like all of it, but that's what learning is all about.

You don't have to like it, but you should listen to it, at least a few times.

This is precisely what led me to purchase Bitches Brew. I have a music "Bucket List" if you will. It's a keeper in my book, but could see where it wouldn't be for everybody -- my wife, for one. At least I know a sure-fire way to clear her from the room.

I have the four disc set of bitches brew and I'll listen to it about one to two times a year. Very good recording dispite the high level of tape noise. Its a serious jazz listeners music and not really ment for back ground music.

I have the regular 2-cd version and the sound quality is disappointing -- sounds very muffled. Please elaborate on this 4-cd set you speak of?

I can only speak for myself.

I grew up listening to this music. "Bitches Brew" pre-dates me by about a year. I didn't know what I was hearing; I was just listening. I was just absorbing it. I wasn't a musician yet and didn't know a trumpet from a saxophone or even how to pronounce the words. So, it just soaked in and I took it for what it is... music. It didn't have to fit into any genre because I didn't know what a genre was. It was just that invisible stuff that comes out of those two boxes in the room and makes my mind go places and sometimes makes me wanna shake my shtuff.

Fast forward to now. I know the terminology and I am a musician. And only since then have I gone to the place of musical analysis only to find that all the joy of music listening was near completely destroyed. Luckily I have been able to get back to the garden. For me to get there meant I had to go back to where I am not listening for any specific thing or any specific reason. Not even so much as, I want to listen to this because it's really groovin'. I listen now, once again, because I want to experience whatever "this" is... whatever it happens to be. With this retro reasoning, I now find myself in the place of being able to enjoy far more music than I ever thought possible.

Miles said, "...call it anything...". That's the approach IMHO that will allow you to get the most out of Miles' "Bitches Brew" or anything else. The worst thing that happened to music was VH1's Behind the Music. There's a horrible story / personality behind most everything that's ever touched "the business of making music". So, for me... I don't go there anymore. I prefer not to sour the experience. I made that decision final after finding out the whole story behind "Fleetwood Mac: Rumors". Sure, interesting tidbits; but, geez louise a horrible story behind that record. And,I love that record, just like I do "Bitches Brew".

Without a word, my dad taught me how to take in music. He sat on the floor of our living room when I was kid. His back was against the couch. His head was slightly tilted back. His eyes were closed. He was silent. He was motionless. He was gone inside the music and was going wherever the music was going. "Herbie Hancock: Thrust" was on the TT. Only when the side was over, he turned his head to me and said, "Now I remember why I bought this album."

I like most stuff by Miles Davis and have all of it,most on CD but 14 LP's some are little known and my least favorite is bitches brew. listening to it makes me want to jab a fat haroin spike in my neck and over dose.I think Kind of blue and sketches of Spain are his true master pieces.

This is an album that Miles definitely pushed the envelope. It is an album that you are meant to listen to to expand your horizons and see what Can be done not what was the Norm at the time. This was during what I would call Miles`s exploratory years as he pushed the envelope a lot during this time. So either you like it or you hate it I truly don`t think there is a lot of in between here. IMHO. I like a lot of Miles even some of his other offerings of this era such as Jack Johnson. Although I like a lot of Miles when he was more blue than pushing the Jazz envelope.

I like most stuff by Miles Davis and have all of it,most on CD but 14 LP's some are little known and my least favorite is bitches brew. listening to it makes me want to jab a fat haroin spike in my neck and over dose.I think Kind of blue and sketches of Spain are his true master pieces.

Oh, my... don't do that! Put the spike down... ...walk away from the spike.

You might also want to stay away from John Coltrane's later work and just about anything from Wayne Krantz... Vernon Reid... Thelonious Monk... Bartok... Stravinsky...

You know, I actually know people who think "Sketches of Spain" is the most boring, kitchy album he ever recorded. Music appreciation is so subjective.

You know, I actually know people who think "Sketches of Spain" is the most boring, kitchy album he ever recorded. Music appreciation is so subjective.

Funny. Sketches of Spain of the only Miles Davis album out of the five I have that I haven't been able to get into. But I haven't given up yet. You said it: to each his own.

check out any of the "Yo Miles" CD's (some are SACD) by Henry Kaiser and Wadad Leo Smith, with Zakir husien on tablas and the rova saxophone quartet.

Funny. Sketches of Spain of the only Miles Davis album out of the five I have that I haven't been able to get into. But I haven't given up yet. You said it: to each his own.

First of all... "receiver or wife" is hilarious!!

But yeah, when I think about it, "Sketches of Spain" and "Bitches Brew" are very similar. WT....? I mean, they are both departures. "Sketches" was a very definite and purposeful departure from what Miles had been doing at that time. People still wanted to hear him "bebop" like he did with Byrd. "What's all the Spanish stuff? French horns? Tubas? This isn't jazz." Miles had to reply back then, "It's music, and I like it." Likewise, "Bitches" was a very definite departure from what he was doing as well. It's not like he didn't know he was going some place else... LOL!! I would imagine if every album sounded like "Miles Smiles", even ol' Stanley Crouch would eventually jump Miles for not moving Ahead... get it... "Miles Ahead"... hee hee... I made a funny... well, maybe not... anyway... The question becomes, "How does a creative person retain his/her creativity if he/she is expected to rehash old creations?"

I completely agree with you, they both demand a little bit more from the listener. It's really, really dense. Light fluff is not the description for it. Again, like you said, "sounds, rhythms, textures, moods". It's remarkable in that respect aside from all that was birthed from it. Personally, I don't think I got either of those albums on the first listen... but... I wouldn't know... because by the time I knew what they were; they were already "a part of me".
Many listeners need to get something in it's entirety on the first listen. (pssst... ...gotta ring tone for ya) But, to still be getting something new out of a piece music, 40 years old on the 40th listen... ... ... Kudo's Miles.

Yup, each to his own. I'm really trying to spend more time praising the music I dig as opposed to calling out music I don't. It just seems like a grandios waste of time. So, I realize now how many people are uninterested in my long list of reasons to not buy a Brikney, Mirey or 59 1/2 Cent record... :lmao:

You know, I actually know people who think "Sketches of Spain" is the most boring, kitchy album he ever recorded. Music appreciation is so subjective.

For me "Sketches of Spain" is sacrosant:Concierto Aranjuez led me to Juan Rodrigo and the great world of classical Spain.:thmbsp::thmbsp::thmbsp:

I like most stuff by Miles Davis and have all of it,most on CD but 14 LP's some are little known and my least favorite is bitches brew. listening to it makes me want to jab a fat haroin spike in my neck and over dose.

Music does that to some people. Ex dictator Noriega of Panama surrendered after they "tortured" him by exposing him to some heavy metal stuff.:D

to the OP, if the record had this impact on you in 2009, think how it sounded to us back in 1969...a transmission from the dimension beyond, inexplicable, dark, galactic, it made hendrix seem sophomoric. i still listen to my copy from those years, and it still seems like something on the edge. and i like the tape hiss. the recording actually came out of a series of studio dates that spawned first the release of In A Silent Way, then came BB, and i forgot what came after. the back up band-Zawinul, Shorter, and the rest, went on to become Weather Report, and continued to explore those cloud galaxies in releases like I Sing the Body Electric, Mysterious Traveler (an all time favorite)...BB was vastly influential on the following decade. also check out herbie hancock's stuff from the same period, mining the funkier planets in those far out galaxies, with releases like Crossings, Mwandishi, etc

:lurk:

I want to hear more opinions before I take the plunge. The critics consider it a very important recording which worries me. The critics also revere Pet Sounds as important and all but a few tracks on it bore me to tears.

You will need to listen to this work on system that can reveal all the subtlies that are on every track in order not to be bored with it

The album seem to me better play a little louder and was recorded in a way as to make you feel like you were sitting in on the recording session minus the tape hiss

This album was ahead of its time and parts of it still are

Miles is not one of my favorite jazz artists but to me he seem like the hendrix of jazz. Always reinventing himself and his groups always testing the musical boundaries even at the cost of loosing his audience

Funny. Sketches of Spain of the only Miles Davis album out of the five I have that I haven't been able to get into. But I haven't given up yet. You said it: to each his own.

Jdandy. I know what you mean. I've had this one for twenty years and still have yet to listen to the whole work in one sitting. My least favorite of all

I have the regular 2-cd version and the sound quality is disappointing -- sounds very muffled. Please elaborate on this 4-cd set you speak of?

The album was released in a couple of different versions:
A four disc box set kinda like plugged nickel and cellar door
Also in gate fold style where the four discs lay flat two on each side with an interesting book in the middle
I said the recording was very good not great but needs to be listened on a system that can reveal all the subtitles and the impact the recording has deep inside of it
The system should be able to reproduce a large sound stage
The album was and still is ahead of its time in more was than one

I've never heard Bitches Brew, but after reading this thread I've become determined to seek out this album for myself. Amazon shows a Sony Legacy LP (vinyl) due for release in April. Should I wait for that? Other alternatives? Thanks. BTW, post 19 is a great post. Thanks, SLM3Tech!

Couldn't have said it better Jim Dandy!!!

Bitches changed everything!!!

First of all... "receiver or wife" is hilarious!!

But yeah, when I think about it, "Sketches of Spain" and "Bitches Brew" are very similar. WT....? I mean, they are both departures. "Sketches" was a very definite and purposeful departure from what Miles had been doing at that time. People still wanted to hear him "bebop" like he did with Byrd. "What's all the Spanish stuff? French horns? Tubas? This isn't jazz." Miles had to reply back then, "It's music, and I like it." Likewise, "Bitches" was a very definite departure from what he was doing as well. It's not like he didn't know he was going some place else... LOL!! I would imagine if every album sounded like "Miles Smiles", even ol' Stanley Crouch would eventually jump Miles for not moving Ahead... get it... "Miles Ahead"... hee hee... I made a funny... well, maybe not... anyway... The question becomes, "How does a creative person retain his/her creativity if he/she is expected to rehash old creations?"

I completely agree with you, they both demand a little bit more from the listener. It's really, really dense. Light fluff is not the description for it. Again, like you said, "sounds, rhythms, textures, moods". It's remarkable in that respect aside from all that was birthed from it. Personally, I don't think I got either of those albums on the first listen... but... I wouldn't know... because by the time I knew what they were; they were already "a part of me".
Many listeners need to get something in it's entirety on the first listen. (pssst... ...gotta ring tone for ya) But, to still be getting something new out of a piece music, 40 years old on the 40th listen... ... ... Kudo's Miles.

Yup, each to his own. I'm really trying to spend more time praising the music I dig as opposed to calling out music I don't. It just seems like a grandios waste of time. So, I realize now how many people are uninterested in my long list of reasons to not buy a Brikney, Mirey or 59 1/2 Cent record... :lmao:

Thanks for your insights in this thread. In fact, thanks to all the input in this thread. I'm enjoying reading all the opinions, good/bad, regarding BB. With anything related to music -- there are no bad opinions.

Love it....it's Miles Davis. Even his worst had some merit because he was playing. Bitches Brew is a classic.

I need to give it another go,I didn't care for it early on as a jazz fan.I think that I would appreciate it more now.

I need to give it another go,I didn't care for it early on as a jazz fan.I think that I would appreciate it more now.

dmax -- if nothing else, I think it does make you stretch your boundaries, which is a good thing. For those who don't ultimately like it, the sheer experience is worth something.

It's kind of like fried chicken livers. I like 'um, my son doesn't. Every once in a while, he and my grand-daughter will dare each other to try one. Neither one likes them now, but as they grow older they might. He says no, but he still trys one ever so often anyway. It is good to check with yourself because sometimes you will be surprised.


(BTW, I like "Bitches Brew") :music:

JimDandy
Nice thread. The ironic part of this thread is that I dug the four disc set out and started listening to disc onea day before you started the post
I only listen about once a year and I make a weekend out of the four discs
Thanks

"Bitches" was my first jazz LP. I had a college roomie who played Brubeck's "Time Out," but "Bitches" was my first purchase. In this case, it was the original "fatboy" case double CD.

Not knowing much about jazz when I purchased it, I had no problem diving in since it has a real rock feel and I was no stranger to "difficult" music. Fifteen years and hundreds of jazz albums later, I understand how "Bitches" deconstructed jazz.

FYI - it is my understanding that the LP (I just picked one up) and the CD have different mixes.

Ken

Fifteen years and hundreds of jazz albums later, I understand how "Bitches" deconstructed jazz.



Ken

Can you ventilate and explain.

The album was released in a couple of different versions:
A four disc box set kinda like plugged nickel and cellar door
Also in gate fold style where the four discs lay flat two on each side with an interesting book in the middle Let us not forget the quadraphonic LP version released in the early seventies. I have seen copies show up on that famous internet website and even bid on one once but lost the auction.

I have not been able to get much enjoyment out of listening to Bitches Brew. I have been listening to In A Silent Way and Seven Steps to Heaven lately and I enjoy them both.

Let us not forget the quadraphonic LP version released in the early seventies. I have seen copies show up on that famous internet website and even bid on one once but lost the auction.

I have not been able to get much enjoyment out of listening to Bitches Brew. I have been listening to In A Silent Way and Seven Steps to Heaven lately and I enjoy them both.

Seven Steps to Heaven: that is my favorite Miles; great work by George Coleman.:thmbsp::thmbsp::thmbsp:

i gave it a try, then i returned it :no: just boring to me...maybe i needed some 'jazz-fusion' chemical enhancements:boring:

anyway, i LOVE 'sketches of spain' and 'kind of blue'

'bitches brew' while a cool hendrixian title. just didn't go anywhere for me.

others love it tho, of course:music:

I love Bitches Brew, and all the other Miles albums from around that time - listening to Live Evil right now :music:

FYI - it is my understanding that the LP (I just picked one up) and the CD have different mixes.

Ken
Is their a difference in sound quality between your LP version and CD?

Let us not forget the quadraphonic LP version released in the early seventies. I have seen copies show up on that famous internet website and even bid on one once but lost the auction.

I have not been able to get much enjoyment out of listening to Bitches Brew. I have been listening to In A Silent Way and Seven Steps to Heaven lately and I enjoy them both.


I was referring to the four CD sets that were released. I imagine the quad album must sound really good. Miles used some interesting recording techniques

Was there anyone who could do what miles could do with a trumpet? I don't think so!! Jazz to me is about clearing the head of impuse thoughts. Just yesterday my daughter give me a copy of "Sketches of Spain". This is a 200 gram reissue copy from classic records. It is a beautiful reproduction, you can feel each note.

Was there anyone who could do what miles could do with a trumpet? I don't think so!! Jazz to me is about clearing the head of impuse thoughts. Just yesterday my daughter give me a copy of "Sketches of Spain". This is a 200 gram reissue copy from classic records. It is a beautiful reproduction, you can feel each note.

I'm gonna have to revisit my "Sketches of Spain" LP again. As I stated earlier in this thread, it's the only Miles album I haven't been able to get into. I'll give her another go, though.