I have noticed that the vocals on tracks closer to the spindle on my Pioneer sound "tinny"? I don't know how to really explain it, but they sound bad to me. The vocals on the outer tracks sound really good! I have setup the turntable to the specs of the table, and then used the Guru protractor that I saw a lot of people recommend. Is this distortion? My cartridge is an AT95E and my table is a Pioneer PL-400. Now, I set the tracking force to 2.2 and my anti-skate is set near 2.2, like it said in the manual, but should I set it to 2.0 that is recommended by AT? If someone could shed some more light on this, it is very much appreciated!! Thanks, Tyler

Yes, that's distortion. The answer is in the manual. Instead of using what everyone else says to use, first try using what Pioneer said to use. On the 2nd or 3rd page under the heading "When Another Cartridge Is Used" there's a diagram there with a 49mm measurement--stylus tip to end of rubber grommet. Keep the cartridge square in the headshell. This sets the alignment--no need for protractors. The Japanese manufacturers specifically chose geometry to minimize distortion at the inner grooves. Let us know if this helped. After using this you may want to drop down to 2.0g just to lessen the pressure on the records, although 2.2 is still acceptable.

If it doesn't work you can experiment with other protractors, but my experience has been that when folks with Pioneers have inner distortion, using Pioneer's alignment usually solves the problem.

Thats how I originally had it set up, and that when I started hearing the distortion. I'll start all over again and try the 2.0 tracking force when I get home this evening.

Okay, is this with every record? Sometimes it's the record that has sustained groove damage from the previous owner not having the cartridge aligned properly. Nothing you can do about it.

Or try on of the other protractors at vinylengine, but may not have enough room in the headshell slots.

What's the Guru Protractor?

Yes, its with every record. I opened a brand new Atreyu- A Death Grip on Yesterday, and the first 3 songs sound great, but the last couple, the vocals sound a little ringy. So, I tried this protractor.
http://www.vacuumstate.com/fileupload/Guru_protractor.pdf

Any better with that protractor?

Nope. Its the same. Is there any way my stylus might be damaged that it would create this distortion?

Yep, that just looks like you're typical Baerwald protractor, although I'll print it out and measure the null points to be sure.

Well, you didn't talk about how often you clean the stylus and with what. Nor did you mention how old or how many hours on the stylus. But if you are keeping it clean, it could be worn or damaged. Sometimes even new styli are defective.

The cart is brand new with maybe 10 hours on it. I clean the stylus after every record with a magic eraser. I just lower the tip into the magic eraser a couple times.

:lurk:

The cart is brand new with maybe 10 hours on it. I clean the stylus after every record with a magic eraser. I just lower the tip into the magic eraser a couple times.
Do you have another new cartridge to test with. It's always good to have a backup, even a cheapo.

Copy and paste this on ebay:

AUDIO TECHNICA PHONO CARTRIDGE- RECORD PLAYER NEEDLE

And you'll find the AT-3600 for $20 shipped. Or AT-92ECD for only a few dollars more shipped. Yes, it'll be a few more days, but it should help you diagnose the problem more quickly. The advantage of the latter is that it is also an elliptical, so if there are alignment issues, it should have them, too. Conicals are forgiving of alignment problems. But it doesn't hurt to have one of those either.

Ok, I bought one of the those At carts and when it arrives I will update this thread with my experience. Thats so much for the guidance and help!

To add one more thing check... your anti-skate, look straight down the cantilever as you adjust if it is bending one side or another adjust it until it's dead straight, do this at the inner grooves. Rule of thumb is match the anti-skate to stylus pressure but sometimes that doesn't work out. For me most times a visual adjustment works best when I'm setting up tables and a lot of times the adjustment dial will match up close to the stylus pressure but sometimes it doesn't. Works every time for me.
Peace,
Preston

Well, I got the cart today and set it up, and I'm still getting the distortion on the inner grooves. This cart makes it even worse! Sounds horrible!

It's almost definately antiskate or pivot slop on your arm if you still get the effect with a new cartridge.

What type of antiskate does the table have? Magnetic, weighted or string weighted?

Next check the pivot point on your tone arm if there is any hint of slop that will cause the problem, if there is slop tighten the pivot point screws if your arm has them but just a micro adjustment, just keep working each screw on each side making turns so small that you can barely see the distance you moved it until the play is taken up, also and finally make sure your vertical tracking is level, meaning, when the cartridge is on the album the tone arm should look level.

Be sure to unplug your table and remove your headshell while doing this after you're made all those adjustments re-set your arm as per the recommended cartridge weight and antiskate.

Remember when it's tracking the inner grooves study the end of the cartridge looking down the length of the arm to make sure it's dead center to the cartridge body and index mark if the cartridge has one.

We'll get er going don't dispair. Drop us a line and let us know how it worked out.

Peace,
Preston

I'm thinking my anti-skate is magnetic. It's just a little dial next to the tone arm. The only screw I see, is a horizontal screw that runs left to right through the pivot point of the tone arm. Is there an way to tell if there is slope by moving the tone arm. It seems ok when I manually pivot it.

Edit: I tried tightening the screw on the pivot arm, but it is as tight as it will go. I noticed 2 screws that are on the base near the tone arm. The screw to the left is for adjusting how far the tone arm swings when you use auto play, but I do not know what the screw on the right is. It doesn't state in the manual.

I was going to agree with Scorchin about the tonearm, but I forgot which tt it was so I looked back at your first post. I remember a post a while back by a guy who used to sell the PL-400 and he said that they that the model was known to have sloppy or cheap pivots. Clearly there are members who own fine working units, but it you might have one of the problem ones.

Hmmmm, well, do you guys think this is fixable or should I start saving my pennies and looking for a new table?

Pivoting up and down well feel correct what you have to do is hold the rotating carriage that the tonearm resto on and move the tonearm side to side in a horizontal manner if it has play the pivot is worn or damaged or needs adjustment.

Peace,
Preston

We can’t have you going around telling people that vinyl is bad so we gotta make you good. Hopefully, we can get you on the right track.

How’s the tonearm feel- nice and silky, buttery, a little resistance in movement? No clunky, notching, or grind?

I’ve been messin’ with tables since ’75 and if it was decent, there hasn’t been one that I couldn’t get working. The S shaped arm, the design geometry, and the cartridge has the right stuff. You have enough equipment to get 90% of the best and that is damn good. Wipe your mind clean and relax. You can dial in more precisely later when the bug bites. You don’t have to be really precise right now, just get the table running.

The cartridge needs to be set so it will smoothly ride the end of the groove. Right now you can’t negotiate the tight inner curve and bumps. You are skidding, plowing, or sliding sideways, perhaps a combination. The tracking might be too light and it is bouncing and chipping vinyl or the tracking could be too heavy and you are digging like a tractor. Either way it is a loss of control. The inner groove is tough but if you can make it then you can ride anything, within reason.

Like a car, you need to align your front end. Set the stylus tip for 49mm from the tip to the rubber grommet on the headshell. That is the hardest part. I do it by eye and a ruler but I have had lots of practice. Turn the headshell on its back and look to make sure the cartridge is straight and give it a try. Balance the arm and set the weight for 2 grams. It should sound pretty good.

Later, much later, you can try canting the angle of the cartridge and you should benefit with even cleaner inner groove music. But do that much later. Consider using a Stevenson alignment as it is specifically planned to deal with the distortion at the end, again, the toughest part.

Make sure when you test that you use known good records. And make sure there is no fuzz on the stylus.

Don’t fret over getting everything exact. If you are within a millimeter of an alignment you will get very good results. Just get working now and dial in a more precise setting later.

Can you tell us precisely how you set your balance?

I've followed those exact procedures from the manual. I've measured the 49mm from tip to rubber washer. I bought a little scale to make sure that the 2.2g tracking force is correct. To level the tonearm, I backed of the weight on the back and let it tetter till I got it to where It would sit on its own, and I eyeballed the level. Then I zeroed out the weight, and dialed the 2.2g using my digital scale. The pivot arm is smooth, no griding or sticking. I just got a new copy of Jimmy Eat World- Chase This Light, and now I can hear a little distortion on the first couple of tracks with this new cart. The inner tracks are the same as the first couple, not as bad as the Atreyu record though.:sigh:

We can’t have you going around telling people that vinyl is bad so we gotta make you good. Hopefully, we can get you on the right track.
Good to have you in the forum, but before posting, it's a good idea to read the entire thread from the beginning. We would not be discussing arm bearings if we hadn't already exhausted every setup and alignment issue.

Ok, I re-leveled the tone arm with the AT95E cart, cause after thinking about it, I think it was a little heavier on the cart end. So, I put a record on there and eye-balled to where it looked like the tip of the stylus would just barely hit the surface of the record. I also put the tracking force to the 2.0 and anti-skate to 2.0 and it sounds a lot better!:banana: The S's are real bright, but I think that is just how the cart is. Sounds tremendously better!!! :music:

Good to have you in the forum, but before posting, it's a good idea to read the entire thread from the beginning. We would not be discussing arm bearings if we hadn't already exhausted every setup and alignment issue.

I didn’t understand and apologize for the interruption, I wanted to help. Yeah, I get the idea, keep out. Consider this newbie forum slapped. Sorry to offend Tshea, I really wanted to help. Good luck and listen to that music.

No offense taken here. I appreciate all the help from everyone. Thanks for all the input and help!

that's awesome you got it up & running & sounding decent ....very cool .