OK a question with little chance of a real answer.

I have a Pioneer SA-9100 completely refreshed and recapped all brought up to spec.

I also have a Pro-Ject RM-5 TT just to far away to reach the Phono inputs on the amp.

So my choices are to run longer cables (I think 6' would do it) or to put a Phono Pre into the mix. only draw back with that is then the TT signal will have to also pass through a Selector switch before reaching an AUX input on the amp.

SO if my two choices for a Phono Pre would be a Pro-Ject Phono Box MK II or a Cambridge Audio 640P

Would the hopeful improvement in sound quality of the Phono pre be enough to over come the simpler signal path.

Also how would either of the above Phono Pre's likely sound in comparison to the SA-9100's build in Phono stage.

I am currently using a SERIES20 C-21 Preamp as my Phono pre but that appears to be causing my amp some problems so I'm looking for a different route.

I'm also currently using a Goldring Erocia H cart but I'm seriouly thinking about going to an Ortofon 2M Bronze or Black.

I think the whole reason for low capacitance leads is to allow longer runs. Seems simpler and cheaper than sticking a bunch of connections into the path.

Yes, make sure the total capacitance of the cable is kept as close as possible to the cart's published spec for capacitive loading if using extensions.

I wouldn't worry about the selector switch being in the path but ideally it wouldn't be. Out of curiosity, what's the output voltage on that Eroica?

Out of curiosity, what's the output voltage on that Eroica?

The Eroica H is 2.5 mv output.

If you were planning on staying with MM's or high output MC's you could also consider a Hagerman Bugle. Its a great phono pre and it can be had for cheaper than the other two you mentioned.

As far as the distance of the cable run, you could experiment with some different interconnects and see which ones work out the best. The run I have for my table is currently 5ft, and what I did was make some interconnects out of twisted pairs of small gage silver wire. I A/B it against some Petra cable and found I liked the DIY interconnects better. The could have the chance of interference though since they are not shielded, no problem in my system and were its placed, but could pose a problem in yours.

Best of Luck, Nick

The best way to do it, if you can't get the turntable closer to the amp, is to use an external phono preamp, and then long leads from the output of the phono preamp into your switch box and aux sockets on the amp. Chances are the phono stage you are thinking of buying will be better than the phono preamp inbuilt in your Pioneer anyway, and a relatively long run from the phono preamp output to the amplifier inputs won't affect it much. An extra 6 foot length between your turntable and the phono preamp in your Pioneer amp will add too much extra capacitance. Because you probably have around 150-250pF already at the input to the the phono preamp in the Pioneer, and then between 100 and 200 pF in the turntable output leads, before the 6 foot increased length, you will end up with too much capacitance.

While there is quite a range of acceptable capacitance for the Goldring Eroica (100-500pF) due to its relatively low inductance, that's not the case for an Ortofon 2M, which has 3 times the inductance. It requires a 150-300pF capacitive load, and it's a fair bet that the low number works the best. Given that you probably have (at least) that on the preamp input with nothing plugged into it, any extra will decrease performance. Add in 100pF if you've got nice low capacitance turntable leads - gets 250pF already, approaching the maximum allowable (assuming only 150pF preamp input capacitance, and it's often higher!). The best quality 6 ft leads - add another 140pF, and if they aren't the best quality, it could be 500pF - you'll be well over the recommended capacitance for the Ortofon, and near, or well over, the maximum for the Eroica. So don't do it - use a separate phono preamp near your turntable.:thmbsp: Your ears will thank you!:music: Having that extra capacitance between the phono preamp and the amplifier auxiliary input will not cause a problem.

It may be a pain in the rear to continually have to switch between inputs on the switch box into the auxiliary inputs on your amp, but it's nothing like the pain you'll be caused by the disappointing sound if you use the extra length between your turntable output and your amp phono input.:tears:

I think the whole reason for low capacitance leads is to allow longer runs. Seems simpler and cheaper than sticking a bunch of connections into the path.

No - actually, it's to load the cartridge correctly to get the flattest frequency response. Most (but not all) MM cartridges work best with roughly 200-300pF loading. Given 150-250pF at the preamp input, you want as little as possible in the leads. The best leads have about 70pF per metre, so a 1.5 metre turntable output lead will have about 100pF capacitance. The worst have 200pF, or more, leading to cartridges sounding flat and dull, with high frequencies dropping off. It's easier to add in extra capacitance, than remove it, to load a cartridge correctly.

-Don