I'm considering getting one of the cheap Sony SACD players and looking for feedback. TIA

MikE

I have heard SACD, but only on some of the higher-end models in superb listening conditions (i.e. a top-notch audio store with a treated room and a set-up to die-for).

Thatch has a cheaper SACD-P ... maybe he can tell us which model specifically, and give you some thoughts.

Which one ya looking at MikE?


have I heard SACD players...yep...I've listened to a couple of them.

Do they sound good...yes, they generally do sound decent. (there are also some upgrades you can do (or have done) that does actually improve the audio performance of the player.

Is SACD an improvement over CD...that one I'm not sure about...I know it "can" do more...but does it? Some of the SACD's I've heard in comparison to redbook or vinyl did sound better (all sounded good tho...but there were differences) But comparing redbook to SACD...which was better? I don't know...the SACD was a remaster...so I can' t rightly answer that.

Is it worht it to buy a cheap Sony SACD player...yes, I believe so. If there were any in my area I would most likely buy one.


Let us know what you decide!

Hi Mike,

I think it depends on your expectations of the cheap player.

The only cheapy I have listened to was a Sony SCD-XB670, this now superceded model was the entry level multi-channel player here.

A mediocre RedBook CD player, it did better with SACD but the differences were subtle.

The owner of this Sony was amazed though because it replaced an ancient Technics CD player.

If you are already familiar with a really good RedBook player, I dont think you will be happy with a cheap Sony playing CDs.

And if you just want to dip your toes in the new hi-resolution audio pool, I don't think the cheapies will really let you know what SACD can do.

As usual YMMV and the best bet is to get a couple of players on home demo.

:)


cheerio

My digtal front-end is an antiquated AudioAlchemy dds.pro transport, ddeV3.0 dac (tricked-out by Dusty Vawters) and dtipro.32 jitter filter (latest software). I'm also using the massive M.P.S power supply designed for the dac and jitter filter. Cables are the superb Audio Magic Mystic Reference (silver) i2s. This is like 7 year old technology / 5k retail. I've compared it to a few current stand-alone CDPs and seperates but always come back to the i2s AA gear. I'll probably try one of the Pioneer Elite or Sony players to see what all the fuss is about.

MikE

We listened to both a Sony and a Phillips at the Bottlehead meet in Houston. To my ears, there is a difference. Notes are "crisper" and more detailed. On some recording a little to much, making them almost clinically sterile. For me, I'll wait a little longer for the prices to drop some more. That and right now I'm more into vinyl.

Mike

I have a Sony 775, the bottom of the line changer. Have had it for about a year.
It replaced one of Sonys better redbook players, the CA70ES which I liked too.
I bought it to see what all the fuss was about for only $180.

I figured if the format dies at least I have a pretty good Redbook player.
I actually like it better than the ES model for Redbook.
There was something too tame about the the ES model.

As far as SACD, I have about a half dozen of them and I notice a difference in the seperation of the instruments.
I have compared a couple of Redbooks to SACD and there is more clarity and wider soundstage.
I definatly notice a difference in the highs, cymbals and such. There is just more of it, maybe too much on some recordings like the Boston cd. Is it noise or it the cymbals. But the Dave Brubeck and KOB sacd's sound real good.

Of course, all this prompted me to want to start listening to records again on a very humble TT to compare, and I've got to say that SACD still doesn't sound like vinyl yet but in general is an improvement over Redbook.

I would like to hear a really high-end SACD player some day on my system.

JoZmo,

Install the sacdmods kit in your 775. You will be amazed, it totally transforms this player. I was very disappointed in my stock 775 compared to my Ah! Njoe Tjoeb. Not any more.......;)

KCM

I've read great reviews of SACD players that were modded, as a matter of fact, there is a review of a 775 on AA in the Hi-Rez forum, just put up there today.

Is this something you did yourself or did you send it out?

How much did it cost?

Mike- I'm new to this board (so new that this is my first post!), but I would like to give my opinion of SACD after owning mine for over a year. Course, this is all opinion, no facts.

I have found that the quality of SACDs is dependent on the processes and care used in recording them, just as it is in redbook CDs. However, IMHO, a well done SACD adds life, depth, and "musicality" (I love these made-up words) to playback that redbook doesn't match. I can't explain it, I just know I like it.

After saying the above, all my favorite discs are redbooks, which when well done I find quite satisfying. I will say that if my favorite discs were put out on SACD (properly done), I find the difference such that I would repurchase them in the new format.

It is also my opinion that, dollar for dollar, SACD players have as good or better redbook playback as any non-SACD players, sorta like getting SACD ability for free. I do not hesitate to recommend the purchase of any of the high-res players.

I appreciate the info. Like I said, I'm pretty uninformed as to "what's up" on the digital front. This is partly due to my satisfaction with my components and my experience that CDPs / seperates haven't delivered on there promise. Sure differences can be heard but I'd rather put my monies elsewhere.

reyneman> Welcome Aboard! Always nice to see "lurker" turned "active member". Yours is only the latest praise I've read on the (entry level) SACD players, and much of that was directed toward redbook, not SACD playback. BTW - I would hope that NO ONE is offended by that term - redbook. Seems there was a nasty (silly really) thread a couple of weeks ago on another forum over the (mis)use of that term. There feeling being that it was redundant and used for no other reason than to embellish a certain image. As far as your verbiage, I'm afraid your preaching to the choir with that one, as I've been accused of an overuse of "colorful desciptors". If I read you right, what your saying is that SACD players just present a certain "rightness" that once heard is difficult to forget or discount. Would you go as so far as to say it's more neutral and open sounding, or is it more of a "Hi-Fi artifact"? Is it really an advancement or just another flavor-of-the-month. Appreciate the exchange.

MikE

JoZmo,

I installed the kit myself in one evening. You can also send your player to Matthew Anker for the install if you don't feel comfortable doing it. I wasn't sure myself, so Matthew suggested that I order the kit and read thru the instructions. Afterwards, if I didn't feel comfortable attempting it, I could ship the kit and player back to him for the installation. The directions are excellent, though, and it was easy enough to follow along. I ordered the kit with the optional power supply transformer, and it was just over $300.00, delivered. Almost three times what I paid for the 775, but well worth it !

MikE,
I bought the single disc multy use player and a few SACDs to use in it. The differences between it and the CD transport, DAC that Johan own were not very substantial but were there and it was at least equal to in playing Redbook and I found it to be very good at playing the 20 bit and 24 bit CDs. And the price is certainly not bad at $180. Does a great job with DVDs as well. Yes, I use SET for my fronts, PP for the center and 70s SS for the rears.

MikE- thanks for the welcome! I tried to post a reply last night, but for some reason was locked out of this thread. Man, you really missed a great comparison between SACD, CD, and Vinyl. I believe I wrote what would have become the definitive treatise on the advantages and disadvatage, the audible differences, and what each was optimized for.

Unfortunately, since my post was lost and I slept it off, I can't remember the BS, er long, thoughtful results of hours of comparisons I wrote. This board may be poorer for it :D

Seriously, IMHO, I don't believe that SACD adds any artifacts to the recording; in fact, I believe quite the opposite. Yes, I find that instruments and voices sound more real- more air, much improved naturalness and timbral accuracy over CD (course, I really haven't heard SRV live in my living room)(what is the natural sound of an electric guitar or recorded piano?). It's the difference between "hey, that's a guitar" (SACD) and "hey, that sounds like a guitar" (CD).

After saying this, I must add that the quality of the engineering and the production and manufacturing of the individual recording makes more of a difference than the format. I believe a well-done CD sounds better than poorly recorded vinyl (don't be too harsh on me guys- I am new to this board).

Bottom line for me- when properly done, of the three formats which I am familiar with (SACD, CD, Vinyl) in my system, I get the most pleasure from SACD, followed by Vinyl and CD (of course, I am lazy, so my vinyl collection is at a disadvantage). YMMV

I got a 775 sacd player coming...As said...I have heard the unmodded and modded 775 several times...For the money, I think it's a good purchase even if you don't mod it...although, I will be adding the mods in the future :)

Once I get the player I'll then have a choice of getting rid of my Rega Planet CDp...I'll be sorry to see that thing go :( Although I won't have the room for a top loading cd player once I get the other speakers up and running...which will be Bi-amped. :(

*sniffle...sniffle*

Hi,

I own the Sony 775 also. No mods. I have had it about three months now. I own just four sacds, and await the appearance of more software anxiously.

Overall, the jury is still out for me regarding this player. I have a mid-fi AMC DB8 cd player that i have done some a/b-ing with. For example, i have Davis' Kind of Blue and Tony Bennett's greatest hits on both redbook and sacd. There IS an improvement in "air" and "space" around the instruments on the SACD player, there is no doubt. For me, though, it's not so readily apparent that it makes me go "WOW!" It could be that the redbook versions of each of these is just very very good to begin with.

One thing I do know is i am disappointed in the redbook playing on the 775. I think the highs are very shrill at times compared to the AMC. I am thinking of running my the Sony through my Dynaco PAS 3 when playing redbooks to see if that helps.

Again, until there is a lot more software available that i truly WANT to buy, and that I am not just SETTLING FOR, I think I will remain lukewarm about sacd.

Dave

Well, I was an early adopter of SACD, and those who know me well will probably remember how I sung its praises loud and often - probably too loud and too often for some. But I sold my Sony SCD-777ES about a year ago, not long after I opened up shop as an audio dealer. Why? Three reasons:

1) I was beginning to discover that certain DACs out there, such as the Audio Note and Chord models, could in fact bring redbook CD performance to a level that in some cases surpassed that of the first-generation SACD players.

2) I was also getting back into vinyl in a big way around this time, and was finding that LP playback was more emotionally satisfying to me than SACD playback.

3) And finally, from a practical standpoint, none of the digital lines I was carrying at the time featured any SACD players. It didn't seem to make sense for me to keep something as expensive as the 777ES around when I couldn't support it as a dealer.

Now, I do feel that - all else being equal (which it rarely is!) - SACD is a superior format to redbook CD. And I am personally looking forward to brining in a good SACD player in the near future. Indeed, right now I've got my eye on a tubed SACD player that one of the companies I represent will be introducing early next year (and no, it's not the new Shanling SACD player!).

In the meantime, though, my feeling is that redbook CD is going to be with us for a long, long time, and there are now ways to make CDs sound unbelievably good. So, whatever the future holds for SACDs, I'm not about to give up on CDs.

I don't know too much about digital audio, only what I skim off other threads and posts.
Some say SACD is nice, while others mention upsampling cd players.
Brian, I think the music hall 25 is upsampling...There is also a Philips dvd 963 SACD upsampling player.
I need more info before diving into a new format.
md

Hi millerdog,

Well, upsampling is no guarantee of good sound - indeed, I know of some CD players with user-selectable upsampling where the player sounds much better WITHOUT the upsampling engaged. With these players, upsampling does increase resolution, but also makes the whole musical presentation sound busier and more forward. Appealing to some (especially those who have never known anything but digital), but not to me.

But upsampling has been used to great effect in other players and DACs...

The little Music Hall player is indeed a nice one - very sweet and unfatiguing, and the HDCD feature is a real bonus.

man oh man!
I been researching this...
I will spend around $300-500 hun on a source. The Philips upsampling sacd unit looks nice, but the music hall is nice too..
then again, I saw the titles sony has for SACD...very short list
What to do?
Brian, can you email or PM me? thanks
md

Well, I personally think SACD & DVD-A both sound better than LP or CD, but I don't have a lot of HiRes discs, and only a couple of them are SACDs.

I have to agree that the Redbook standard still has a lot of life left in it. I've come to the opinion that a lot of the edge attributable to SACD is due to the DSD mastering process; I've been floored by some of the CD remasters made with DSD.

I don't have a high end outboard DAC or anything, though I would like to go that route eventually. But even with my present gear, the best CDs come pretty close to the sound of SACD. The new XTC remasters, particularly, are stunning. I was flattened by Nonesuch , which is among my favorite albums of all time.

I've been reading the rumors lately of SACDs demise, and rumors that Sony is about to pull the plug. While I doubt the validity of these rumors, it's no secret that the format isn't doing very well. I'd like to see it survive, but I just don't see Sony and Phillips doing much to try to ensure it's survival. The "masses" don't care about high res audio and the audiophile guys don't want to be stuck with a DAC setup they can't tweak or change. I know encryption is the real goal of SACD, but I don't think it will take off til they incorporate some type of standardized digital output.

I needed a DVD player with a built in decoder. I started looking around and it looked like a good option with both Dolbly Digital, DTS, and multichannel SACD. It has bass management for all three. So I got it primarily as a DVD player with SACD as a bonus. They include a mulitichannel sampler with the player and when I played it was WOW! I was impressed!! I know this is not one of the ES units but it still sounded great!

Tweeter is offering a $399 special on the Philips SACD 1000. This player has gotten some positive reviews. It originally sold for $2,000 and more recently for $1,000. At $399 it seems to me to be a better buy than the mass market Sony players. As far as I can tell it's being discontinued and replaced by lower priced models that have some additional features, like bass management (which doesn't matter to me since I'll use it only for two channel stereo), and upsampling on Redbook CD's.

I have some doubts about the future of SACD and was planning to wait before making the plunge, but when I found out about the sale I decided even if SACD goes the way of Betamax I can afford a $399 mistake. In any event the 1000 is supposed to be an ok redbook CD player too.

Two weeks ago I decided to dip my toe into a HiRez format. SACD and the Sony 775 changer got my attention , especially after the Prez of our audio club tried one and said it compared favorably in SACD to his 777ES. By the time I decided to make my move, the 775s were all gone from my area so I ordered a 222ES changer from Oade for $350 delivered. When it arrived last week, I opened the outer box and enclosed funds and reshipped it to SACDmods.com for the full boat all channel mod plus an IEC connector . Mathew E mailed me that he was going to do it over this weekend, but I haven't got a shipping E mail from him yet.
When I get it, I'll break it in on my 2ch system, and then A/B it against my Cary 308T. I bought it for my HT system and my remote system(kitchen&deck) since it has two outputs and can be a source for both of them at the same time for background music. If it sounds better than the 308T, I guess a XA777es is in my future as the Prez keeps telling me. For you AA members, the Prez is DannyB.