I've been looking at replacing my VCR with a DVR. I just need it for time shifting and thought I could get one with digital tuners in it to bring in DTV. Now I see that Tivo requires a $12.98 per month subscription. What is that about?

Yes I live in a cave. I have an antenna on the roof and it brings in all the TV I need. I don't have, nor want cable, satellite or other TV subscription service. Is there a DVR out there that has two digital tuners in it that I can use to replace my VCR?

- Pete

It was my understanding that you did not need to subscribe according to an AK member here. It is needed to get updates and channel listings. However, the salesperson at Best Buy says you have to subscribe or it don't work. So I don't know but would like to know as I have thought about getting TiVo myself.

Acording to the Tivo website, they will only sell directly with a subscription. I haven't tried a retail store. Is Tivo the only game in town?

- Pete

You might want to look at getting a Pioneer DVR-810H (80GB) or Elite DVR-57H (120GB). You can use Tivo's basic service with either of these machines which is free. I'm not sure what kind of tuner they have so you will have to see if they will work for your setup or not.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/pvr/204pioneer/

EDIT: They don't make either of these models anymore so you would have to find used if it looks like they might work.

I have a sony HDD-250, HD DVR, receives cable & OTA signals. Uses TV Guide (free), in my case sent out by the local PBS station OTA. You may be able to pick up one on the bay

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-home.pl?mdl=DHGHDD250&region_id=1

Now you guys know why I keep my 11-year-old Panasonic VCR ticking, fed by a Maggotbox OTA DTV set top box.
If I didn't have a VCR, I'd use a DVD±RW unit fed by the tuner box.

There is software so you can turn your PC into a DVR if you want to consider that as an option.

Since posting this, I've done a little more research. There is no current DVR model available in North America that has a digital tuner capable of receiving over the air broadcast signals and does not require a subscription.

From what I can tell, the last one offered was a Philips DVDR3576H. It was a combination Hard drive based DVR plus a DVD recorder that has a single digital tuner. It was discontinued sometime last year but there are still a few floating around. I was able to buy a new one on EBay. It will be delivered this week.

Moxi makes a DVR that does not require a subscription but also does not include an over the air tuner. There were a couple of posts on line that hinted at some new DVR coming later this year that will be aimed at the over the air crowd but at this point it's just speculation.

So, right now if you want one, you either have to make your own or scrounge up a discontinued model.

- Pete

Since posting this, I've done a little more research. There is no current DVR model available in North America that has a digital tuner capable of receiving over the air broadcast signals and does not require a subscription.


- Pete
What about the "Dish Network DTVPal DVR" which is a dual-tuner HDTV DVR for OTA TV? I read after some delay, they are available now. No subscriptions or fees.

Can you buy and use it if you are not a Dish Network Subscriber? Also, not all HD tuners will receive over the air broadcasts.

- Pete

Pete, why not get a DTV tuner box that feeds a DVD±R(W) recorder, or a recorder with a tuner built in? That's what I plan on getting when I can no longer get another VCR.

It needs to have a hard drive otherwise you burn a DVD every time you use it. The Phillips model I'm getting has a hard drive and a DVD recorder. The best of both worlds.

- Pete

Can you buy and use it if you are not a Dish Network Subscriber? Also, not all HD tuners will receive over the air broadcasts.

- Pete

This is the device I was talking about..

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10093628-1.html


..just not sure they are readily available. I thiought they were by now.

Ed, that's a very interesting unit. I missed it completely in my search, probably because I assumed you would need a dish network subscription. It is what I was looking for unfortunately, it's not being distributed for some reason. The Dish network website lists it as a no subscription, stand alone DVR with two digital tuners for over the air broadcasts. But it also says it's temporarily unavailable. The only place I see it for sale is Ebay. At least one seller has some but wants over $400 for it.

There must be a back story as to why no one is currently selling this kind of equipment.

- Pete

I don't know what the deal is with that unit other than they've been talking about it for a year! Thought they were finally selling them last December. Might mave something to do with a lawsuit by Tivo against Dish that was ongoing, don't know what the status of that is either. I'd like to have one.

I've always found the lack of free DVRs in the US really strange. When I was visiting the UK last xmas, the store shelves were stuffed with DVRs with one or two digital tuners, and none of them required a subscription. Tivo seems to have a real stranglehold on the US market.

I have a DirecTV HD Tivo that I'm able to use for over the air, even though I don't have a Tivo, or Directv subscription. The only catch is that it needs a dish to get the guide data.

Dish network boxes don't work at all without a Dish subscription.

If you are a DIY kinda person, check out MythTV.. http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20070804024134159/MythTV.html <--- Just a quick overview, you will want to visit other pages if you decide to go this route.

Ed, that's a very interesting unit. I missed it completely in my search, probably because I assumed you would need a dish network subscription. It is what I was looking for unfortunately, it's not being distributed for some reason. The Dish network website lists it as a no subscription, stand alone DVR with two digital tuners for over the air broadcasts. But it also says it's temporarily unavailable.

- Pete

An update. I just placed an order for a DTVPAL http://www.dtvpal.com/ from Dish Network. They are taking orders now. No affilliation with Dish whatsoever. Will let you know how it turns out!

That's actually good news that you can now buy something new. I wound up getting a nib Philips DVDR3576 off eBay. The packaging made it look like the guy bought a bunch of them on closeout and was now reselling them at a profit. There may still be a few around.

It has a single digital TV tuner and a relatively small hard drive but will still record 80 hours of broadcast TV without a subscription. It also has an on board DVD burner so if you record something that you want to keep you can burn it to DVD. It has aux jacks so you can connect a outside source like a VCR or camcorder and recording from there. That feature will be handy to transfer some family videos to DVD.

It's a pretty neat gadget. Each recorded session is displayed in a thumbnail video so you can choose the show directly. That's a big improvement over a VCR where you have to rewind and scan the contents to identify what's on the tape and find the beginning of the show.

It's a little tricky to fast forward through commercials. Unlike a VCR that speeds up uniformly, FF in digital media just skips from point to point. The faster the FF rate the bigger the skips. Real easy to go too far. That may also be a big reason that the Media folks don't like them, you can skip right over the meat of a commercial. With a VCR you get a fast but complete image when scanning past.

- Pete

The DTVPal is available now.

I bought one when they were first available in November, 08.

I, Like Pete, absolutely refuse to pay for TV. I live in the country, with no cable available, so satellite would be my only option.

When I first heard about the coming digital TV changeover, I went shopping for a DVR to replace my VCR, which I mainly used to time-shift programs so I could zip past the now-INTOLERABLE number of commercials.

I was in dread of the hassle of having to buy two converter boxes, and then program both the VCR AND a converter box whenI wanted to record a program.

I COULDN'T BELIEVE that there was no non-subscription DVR available in the US, let alone one with two tuners!

I was resigned to buying two converter boxes, and after some research I discovered that there was only ONE converter box available that had a timer that could be set for a specific channel at turn on - The "DTVPal" converter box from Dish Network.

I found out about the DTVPal DVR (not yet available at that time) from the Dish website, and I GRABBED one as soon as they became available.

This is a fantastic unit! Two over-the-air HD tuners; 150 hours SD recording capability and 30 hours of HD with the internal 250 GB hard drive (upgradeable to I terrabyte!); TVGOS program guide; firmware updates automatically by ethernet or manually by USB; a great remote ; and the best part is the capability to pause live TV and ZIP through commercials!!

The reason the DTVPal was unavailable until just recently is because when the units first came on sale there was a horrendous bug in the firmware. Almost all users were plagued by frequent lockups and reboots, sometimes multiple times daily. The unit was pulled from the market until the bug was fixed by a firmware update. The DTVPals that are now on sale have the update, and work pretty much flawlessly.

I did the firmware update on my first-generation unit (occasional reboots and lockups only), and the thing works like a charm!


Here is a link to the excellent "official" DTVPal DVR forum, where you can read all about the box, and the "saga" of the problems that affected early units:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071


GRAB one of these things. You won't be sorry!!

It actually makes watching TV worthwhile again for me.

Cheers!

Ken

The DTVPal is available now.

I bought one when they were first available in November, 08.

The DTVPals that are now on sale have the update, and work pretty much flawlessly.

It actually makes watching TV worthwhile again for me.

Cheers!

Ken


Glad to hear some positive news about the DTVPal. I just got around to setting mine up that I received last week and now getting used to its features. So far so good! I need to find out about that HDD upgrade to 1 TB. Is that something the user can do?

I need to find out about that HDD upgrade to 1 TB. Is that something the user can do?

Yes, and I understand it's a straightforward swap of the drives once you get the unit open.

There's great info/instructions on the "official" DTVPal DVR forum thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071#A5


And, you only have to wait a whole 90 DAYS for the warranty period to expire!

Ken