whinny little bitch? as talented as he may be?

:scratch2:

No, I totally agree, accept on the talent part. I don't mean to say that he is not talented at all, but I think he's one of the most overrated artists of his (and my) generation. Obviously just my opinion, as he's fondly remembered by many.

yep, agreed.
just like most of the whiny little "emo" punks now a days.
not much talent, not much to say...

I was more of a pearl jam/alice in chains/soundgarden grunge type in the early 90's.

yep, agreed.
just like most of the whiny little "emo" punks now a days.
not much talent, not much to say...

I was more of a pearl jam/alice in chains/soundgarden grunge type in the early 90's.

Gees, it's like you read my mind.....:scratch2:

yep, agreed.
just like most of the whiny little "emo" punks now a days.
not much talent, not much to say...

:banana: Emo -

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e246/MacLeod71475/EMO_Pussies.jpg?t=1239427487

Priceless! Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, SG, even Neil Jam are way better than Nirvana, but there are a few Nirvana songs I really like too. I still think Cobain's or any suicide is just a sad & tragic waste. Hopefully that doesn't make me an Emo pussy.

Gees, it's like you read my mind.....:scratch2:

yeah, now, Layne Staley of alice in chains I grieve for, that man had oodles of talent, too bad it got wasted with an OD.

Priceless! Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, SG, even Neil Jam are way better than Nirvana, but there are a few Nirvana songs I really like too. I still think Cobain's or any suicide is just a sad & tragic waste. Hopefully that doesn't make me an Emo pussy.
yeah, but I still think it was murder.....the evidence didnt stack up to a suicide.
either way, I wish kurt didnt die, because that only made him a martyr, and increased his popularity, all the teen girls and effeminate boys crying over the loss....if he had lived, I bet after a few more years, he would have faded out, and been seen as the no talent he was.(he did have some talent, but compared to his peers of the time, he paled in comparison)


:banana: Emo -

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e246/MacLeod71475/EMO_Pussies.jpg?t=1239427487
I went to a Deftones show a few years back (probably more like 5-6 years). there were 20 other bands on the bill I didn't bother paying attention to.
I learned my lesson.
the bands were almost all emo/screamo bands, and the arena was full of 16 year old effeminate boys wearing undersized girl jeans with their shorts hanging out, eye makeup and bandannas as scarves.

meanwhile I'm there with my pantera tee, blue jeans, and doc martens...topped off with a mid seventies black biker jacket.(my basic get-up for any show, insert different band tee)
my GF turned to me at one point and said "OMG, I bet I could kick any guy's ass here". she weighs 115lbs...LOL.

I think someone who has been dead for going on 14 years now and still people talk about him, well that says something... He was a good artist. I personally grew up with grunge starting around 1987 with Screaming Trees, then Green River and then all the rest. I think there were many other bands that really got overlooked out of that scene...Like the Fluid, Skin Yard, Pond and quite a few others.

When Nirvana hit around 1992, I put everything away so I could enjoy it when I was this age. I am glad I did, because I still love to pull out that stuff and listen to it. I think I will do so now...:)

I personally grew up with grunge starting around 1987 with Screaming Trees, then Green River and then all the rest. I think there were many other bands that really got overlooked out of that scene...Like the Fluid, Skin Yard, Pond and quite a few others.

I personally grew up with Herb Alpert, Nat King Cole, Harry Belafonte, Pete Fountain... Nobody angry, nobody screaming, nobody full of angst. Just real musicians using their real names, playing real music. :music:

That picture of Emo is simply frightening...

I agree, he does have his moments, but not enough in my books to warrant him a musical icon by any means.
musical icons ie; Lennon, Dylan, Hendrix, Page and the list goes on and on.
Sorry, but not in the same league I.M.O.H.O....:no:

:banana: Emo -

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e246/MacLeod71475/EMO_Pussies.jpg?t=1239427487
:lmao::lmao::lmao:

I think it's funny that you guys have started a thread so you can whine and bitch about how people whine and bitch.

In Kurt's case, it was a bit worse than a little whining and bitching. The dude put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Maybe, just maybe you could muster a little empathy for him, his parent and friends.

whinny little bitch? as talented as he may be?

:scratch2:

Was... WAS... a whiny little bitch.

Maybe we can get Whoopi Goldberg to ask Kurt if he thinks he is a whinny little bitch?


Steve

Maybe, just maybe you could muster a little empathy for him, his parent and friends.

He took his own life, it wasn't an accident. It is a tragedy for his family, but he was a multi millioinaire, with a kid and a wife (and millions and millions of fans), who probably never had to work another day in his life if he didn't want to, with access to help and ways out most people don't have. Suicide is a selfish act that I have little empathy for, accept for those left behind.

But this is about his artistic merit. I hope we don't get to a point where we can't criticize or debate something becaue the artist is dead. I don't hate Kurt Cobain or his music, it was better than most of what was on pop radio back then, but it wasn't better, imho, than a lot of what was under the radar. The fact is, people treat him like he was the only person doing anything like this, that every other musician was along the lines of, say, C&C Music Factory or that guy who did that Humpty Dance song. It's just not true, and a lot of people, including myself, think his reputation is unwarranted. An angst-ridden twenty something learns to make pop-songs from his alienation and sadness. I don't see what's so revolutionary about that. Unfortunately, the fact that fame and depression consumed him wasn't so out of the ordinary, either (see Joy Division and probably many others). I even like whiny mopey angry music (no, not EMO...:sigh:), I just don't think he did it any better than many others.

I think it's funny that you guys have started a thread so you can whine and bitch about how people whine and bitch.

In Kurt's case, it was a bit worse than a little whining and bitching. The dude put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Maybe, just maybe you could muster a little empathy for him, his parent and friends.

True enough.
It would be better to discuss what makes music appeal to people. What sets one artist from another.
Then Curt Cobain would float to the top as one of the few greats in his genre and time period.
If he had been medicated to relieve his depression, he wouldnt have penned the lyrics that so many related too.
The argument is always the same.... Theres the camp that has no feel for music but likes the tune and then theres the camp that thinks its crap unless you feel the music. These are emotional differences in humans, not music. Both are viable. Music structure itself satisfies some and for others the music must have meaning. Just as your tastes have changed throughout your life so do those of musicians. Curt would have certainly faded away as he got older just as Alice in chains and Pearl Jam have. Just as the back street boys or Jewel have, just as we all do.
Just as popular, not as creative.

IMO


..

Let's see...if I go put on some of my favorite blues artists (SRV, Albert Collins, Robert Cray, Freddie King, R.L. Burnside, etc.), what do I hear?

What would a fan of the blues (OP?) have anything to complain about an artist feeling down?

i think it's funny that you guys have started a thread so you can whine and bitch about how people whine and bitch.

In kurt's case, it was a bit worse than a little whining and bitching. The dude put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Maybe, just maybe you could muster a little empathy for him, his parent and friends.

+1.........

I think it's funny that you guys have started a thread so you can whine and bitch about how people whine and bitch.

In Kurt's case, it was a bit worse than a little whining and bitching. The dude put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Maybe, just maybe you could muster a little empathy for him, his parent and friends.

What he said. You don't have to like him or listen to his music, but man, why are we so obsessed with tearing people down - even when they're dead.

I did like him, and I enjoyed his music. But to be a ground breaker? Nope.
The truth is, Grunge is just another form of Punk which has been going on for decades. It even had it's beginnings in the 60's. With The Who, The Stooges, ? and the Mysterians, Shadows of Knight and other bands. In the 70's it was the Ramones, New York Dolls, Patti Smith, Talking Heads, Sex Pistols and Blondie.

The reason why he shot himself is because he could not take all the fame associated with being a star.

He took his own life, it wasn't an accident. It is a tragedy for his family, but he was a multi millioinaire, with a kid and a wife (and millions and millions of fans), who probably never had to work another day in his life if he didn't want to, with access to help and ways out most people don't have. Suicide is a selfish act that I have little empathy for, accept for those left behind.


Absolutely!

I personally grew up with Herb Alpert, Nat King Cole, Harry Belafonte, Pete Fountain... Nobody angry, nobody screaming, nobody full of angst. Just real musicians using their real names, playing real music. :music:


"Real musicians" are the key words here...

perspective: If Kurt had never been?

You have to admit he was the power that made Nirvana happen and together they put a huge dent in rock history. We will never know what that dent would have looked like without him...

Other than that, he was a F'ing ediot for ending himself.

I think it's funny that you guys have started a thread so you can whine and bitch about how people whine and bitch.



+ 1 more

I personally grew up with Herb Alpert, Nat King Cole, Harry Belafonte, Pete Fountain... Nobody angry, nobody screaming, nobody full of angst. Just real musicians using their real names, playing real music. :music:


My heart goes out to you...Truly it does. I am not trapped by an era, I too love Nat King Cole, but my love of music knows no boundaries. I would never dare say that a finite number of people from a specific era are more musically inclined than a group from another era.

You have every right to enjoy what you enjoy, but please don't assume that others here don't listen to real music. And angry and screaming music was a direct result of a way of rebelling against such thinking.

perspective: If Kurt had never been?

You have to admit he was the power that made Nirvana happen and together they put a huge dent in rock history. We will never know what that dent would have looked like without him...

Other than that, he was a F'ing ediot for ending himself.

Quite possibly more and more hair metal ballads until we all offed ourselves...:) Or more Michael Jackson, considering Nevermind knocked him out of the number one spot on the charts. I love old Michael Jackson, but once he started doing things that were repulsive, both to himself and others, I couldn't listen anymore.

Unplugged: Live From New York is fantastic. It is one of my current favorites.

He took his own life, it wasn't an accident. It is a tragedy for his family, but he was a multi millioinaire, with a kid and a wife (and millions and millions of fans), who probably never had to work another day in his life if he didn't want to, with access to help and ways out most people don't have. Suicide is a selfish act that I have little empathy for, accept for those left behind.

Many may not agree with me but I agree with the tone that his wife Courtney Love had at the time it happened. She was p*ssed that he killed himself and left their child fatherless.

The man had EVERYTHING going for him in life, no matter what his mind might have told him otherwise, and rather than enjoy fatherhood, family, immense wealth, fame and youth he chose to kill himself. Moreso than 99 percent of the people on this earth, he could have chosen any life he wished to choose and have anything he wanted to have. I like alot of Nirvana's music but seldom listen to it. I've got more respect for a rapper that gets shot dead than a guy who has every opportunity, there for the taking, yet chooses to commit suicide, and I think it is tragic that it made him even more popular to many.

Quite possibly more and more hair metal ballads until we all offed ourselves...:)

There were plenty of alternatives before what became known as "Alternative". Nirvana didn't alter music, they altered major label pop music, and thus what was played on the big radio stations. For anybody willing to look beyond top-40, there was plenty going on before and after Kurt Cobain. :music:

could we say Nirvana brought back rock after 5 years of TOO much "rock" made by pink blonde fynnymen ??

We who loved maiden, priest, ozzy never saw a problem with Nirvana.. It was just a new "more than average" talented band.. Nevermind will outlast us, whether we like it or not :)

No, not a whiny lil' bitch imho. R.I.P. Kurt.

I like Soundgarden 10X more then Nirvana; but that doesn't mean I don't like Nirvana. Suicide is fucking stupid; I don't care who you are. It's a shame but goddamn people the man had some problems that fame couldn't fix.


MY OPINION please 'memmer.


Matt

Maybe we can get Whoopi Goldberg to ask Kurt if he thinks he is a whinny little bitch?

I dont get it?

I dont get it?

From the movie "Ghost". Whoppi could speak to the Dirty Dancing dude.... and he was dead/ghost.

He was a genius, was in enormous pain due to massive back problems, and he committed suicide.

Show some respect. :-(

He changed the sound of radio. Ended the pretty boys reign. Spawned a zillion imitators.

Pain. Drugs. Stupid bitch wife. He had no interest in being anybody's idol. More pressure than he could handle. Took the coward's way out.

Iirc, he had raging and I mean raging stomach ulcers that he could never get rid of and it pretty much drove him crazy and made escapes like herion seem like a good idea. Probably more than work pressure and his crazy crack ho wife combined. I don't own a single Nirvana album but you gotta hand it to that band, they kicked ass. And I don't think nirvana is what you would classify as emo.

I personally grew up with Herb Alpert, Nat King Cole, Harry Belafonte, Pete Fountain... Nobody angry, nobody screaming, nobody full of angst. Just real musicians using their real names, playing real music. :music:

Using their real names?

From Nat King Cole's Wikipedia article:

Nathaniel Adams Coles (March 17, 1919 – February 15, 1965), known professionally as Nat King Cole

From Pete Fountain's Wikipedia article:

Pierre Dewey LaFontaine, Jr. (born July 3, 1930), is a New Orleans clarinetist. According to a Belgian radio program ("La troisieme oreille", produced by Marc Danval), his name was originally Pierre de la Fontaine.

Oh, and Kurt Cobain wrote the song Sliver. That makes him a genius in my book.

And his real name was Kurt Cobain.

i like his music just think he was a pussy

And he made my flannel shirts popular.

Suicide is a selfish act that I have little empathy for, accept for those left behind. I totally agree with this. Regardless how bad things may be taking your own life is the chicken shit way out IMO. As his mom said he joined "the stupid club".

Now with that said I think Nirvana's Nevermind album is a masterpiece and is one of my all-time favorite rock albums.

I being 28 years old grew up during the heyday of Nirvana and the grunge scene that they created and anyone who says that their music isn't real music is just plain ignorant to the fact that they almost, single-handedly replaced crappy hair metal that spoke nothing about what people were feeling at the time and replaced it with a guttural scream that MY generation needed badly .... We wanted something more real and easier to identify with and that's what Nirvana was to me ... Kurt Cobain was a voice of a very short generation even if you don't like to admit it ... He was also a great songwriter and a huge Beatles fan ... I tell you what, Go buy MTV Unplugged on vinyl or Nevermind and sit down and just listen to the pain .... His music has real and raw emotion to it and thats what makes music "real" and relevant to society.

Don't get me wrong suicide is the most cowardly thing a person can do, the highest and lowest form of free will one can exhibit and if you don't "get" the music don't worry he wasn't speaking to you, Just as Herb Alpert, Nat King Cole, Harry Belafonte and Pete Fountain weren't speaking to me and I wouldn't slight those artists one bit for not doing so yet still I consider them "Real Musicans",


Now with that said I think Nirvana's Nevermind album is a masterpiece and is one of my all-time favorite rock albums.

Totally agree and glad someone finally said something positive about them

Suicide is a selfish act that I have little empathy for, accept for those left behind.

Totally agree.

The fact is, people treat him like he was the only person doing anything like this, that every other musician was along the lines of, say, C&C Music Factory or that guy who did that Humpty Dance song.

I know it's cool to bash on rap music but I enjoyed those 2 groups (Humpty Dance was by Digital Underground, btw) a heck of a lot more than anything I heard from the grunge movement. Of course, I'm not known for my taste.

We wanted something more real and easier to identify with and that's what Nirvana was to me

I was just out of college and more interested in music than I had ever been. I couldn't identify with that whole movement at all. Maybe I was just too old. Maybe I was too optimistic. It all seemed like a bunch of whining about what they didn't have. I'm sure someone will tell me I just don't "get it" and I suppose that's true. But then again, I'm not sure I want to.

As far as Cobain himself, I respect the talent and the heart to put his feelings into music. I don't respect him as a person for taking the suicide route.

Ray

The Beatles charted in the US with Love Me Do before Meet the Beatles was released.

Patti Smith,The Ramones,Iggy and The Stooges,and Richard Hell all had albums released before the Sex Pistols recorded Never Mind The Bullocks.

Soundgarden,Alice In Chains,etc,all had chart albums before Nevermind came out.

But all three of these releases were shots across the bow,that single handedly created movements that not only affected the music scene,but also art,literature and fashion.

People could argue that the Kinks or the Stones or the Who were more talented artists than the Beatles.

People DID argue that The Clash,Wire,and The Buzzcocks were better than the Sex Pistols.

A lot of you have said that Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam were far superior to Nirvana.

But none of these artists would have seen the light of day,or had the exposure they did without these defining events.

I know a lot of you dismiss Cobain because of his end.Would you feel the same about Jim Morrison,who I think shares many similarities,musically.
Just my 2 cents.
Jimmy

I know a lot of you dismiss Cobain because of his end.Would you feel the same about Jim Morrison,who I think shares many similarities,musically.
Just my 2 cents.
Jimmy

Actually, I would. My opinion, and it's only that. I won't deny that Morrison or Cobain were extremely talented, both were, obviously...I just think both would have been a lot less regarded in 2009 had they not shortened their own lifespans.

I keep reading about the MTV unplugged Nirvana album, though. What is so special about it? It showcases Cobain as a terribly whiney vocalist without the help of the studio magic. Compare his version of Molly's Lips during this set with the original recorded by the Vaselines...the detachment and subtlety that made the original so interesting is completely gone, he just simply butchers that song like a drunk at open mic night, which is what that whole album sounds like to me (remember..to me...if somebody thinks otherwise, well, that's the beauty of music, it's all personal).

It's all a matter of what we like, our own tastes. I happen to LOVE Joy Division, for example, a band with many similarities to Nirvana, including the suicide of the lead singer and the raw emotion of the music. Anything I criticize in Nirvana could rightfully be said about Joy Division as well. I just happen to like Joy Division's musical expression of that raw emotion much better than Nirvana's ...I think Nirvana sound like the pop-radio offspring of hair metal and punk, when I'd rather have either the self-parody of one or the pure unfiltered emotion of the other. Plus I think if they met in a dark alley, Patti Smith could have kicked Cobain's ass. :D I just listened to Horses...now THAT is emotion and a hell of a powerful voice.

What a coward! If he had been a *real* rock star he would have OD'd on drugs and drown in his own vomit. That's so much more brave...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e246/MacLeod71475/EMO_Pussies.jpg?t=1239427487

So now we know what happened to Ralphie Wiggum when he grew up.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Ralph_Wiggum.PNG

every "major" band since nirvana rips them (him) off in some way or another. which puts kurt cobain in john lennon land. you may not like the music subsequent to nirvana and kurt's death, and neither do i, but it's hard to deny the impact he had on popular music, even if it blows. i personally loved nirvana and think kurt was an amazing songwriter and what happened to him was a real tragedy because i think he had alot left in him musically.

every "major" band since nirvana rips them (him) off in some way or another. which puts kurt cobain in john lennon land.


wee bit of a stretch

I loved the whole Seattle sound in the late 80s/early 90's. It was energetic, noisy, simple and fun. I was sick of hair metal at the time, and grunge re-awakened my interest in rock music in a way that I had not experienced in nearly a decade. I made several trips to Seattle then. Like it or not, Nirvana was an important part of the Seattle scene.

I saw Kurt perform in Vancouver, BC in early 1994. He was dead a couple months later. Several others have since been lost: Shannon Hoon, Layne Staley to name a couple. All these deaths are tragic.

It has now been 15 years since grunge died with the death of Kurt Cobain. Hell, it probably was dead even before that. Sure, Kurt was a poster boy for the grunge scene, but what a scene it was!

Unfortunately, I still to this day cannot listen to Nirvana because it plain upsets me

Time to move on...

i never could understand what folks saw in kobain or nirvana. some of my friends that used to go ga-ga over them (him) played some of their music for me and i just didn't get it.
WTF?!!

just the genre name, grunge, turned me right off from the git-go. and the so called music itself didn't help at all, either.

but it's better than rap/hip hop.:thmbsp: (gotta say something positive).

Well, here on page four of this thread about Cobain being a "whinny little bitch" we can at least see one thing, the guy is still an attention getter. FOUR pages worth!

I just wanted to add that I remember being relieved that Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and even Guns-n-Roses had given at least a partial testicle back to Rock and Roll. After living through the late 70s and 80's disco, punky, new wave, hairspray, lipstick laden, MTV crap, the Seattle scene was sorta welcome. At least there was hope! Once it got the stupid musical genra divisional label "grunge", I knew it would fall apart for the most part. Of course we still seem to be stuck like a broken record with some of the "depression sound", as I call it. It's like half of the songs you hear have that same lame vocal style that makes you want to follow Kurt:guitar::arrow::angel:

I don't think it was entirely Kurt Cobain's fault he got the attention he did. There are FAR less talented people today receiving more attention than they deserve and FAR more talented people receiving no where near the attention they deserve. If you take Nirvana at face value as just a rock band, they were a good band who entertained. Don't know if any of that makes sense - I've had a long, shitty, shitty day.

All my opinion of course.

:smoke::scratch2::smoke:

I think this thread has attracted a lot of attention because Cobain, though somewhat talented was recieveing acolades far too early, and scertainly before he had earned it.

Someone compared him to Morrison. I don't see the similarities. Morrison had a much larger output and far more success. Morrison, if you know about his life, was an extremely talented and refined person underneath the drunkeness. His lyrics reflected a vast understanding of classic literature and existential philosophy. The doors were a versatile band with a varied output.

That said, I remember Nirvana's breakthrough with Nevermind. Before the album was out Rolling Stone was touting him as the Lennon of his generation. It took John Lennon many albums and a 20 plus year career to be the Lennon of his generation. I smelled absurd hype from the start.

Cobain had a nice voice, and I believe that he felt what he sang. I think he was a pretty good performer. Not all bad. His world view, on the other hand, was pretty shallow and self absorbed. His song structures are a hook and a verse, or a hook and a chorus. Not the stuff of great talent.

Hmmm what's the evidence that Cobain was a whiner? Dude screamed his vocals from the bottom of his gut, and in reality that's what led to many of his stomach problems. Compared with someone insufferably self-pitying like Morrissey, Cobain is pratically a stoic.

I see lyrics like these as far more angry than "whiny" myself:


Its so relieving to know that youre leaving as soon as you get paid
Its so relaxing to hear youre asking wherever you get your way
Is so soothing to know that youll sue me, this is starting to sound the same
I miss the comfort in being sad

In her false withness, we hope youre still with us, to see if they float or drown
Our favorite paitent, a display of patience, disease-covered puget sound
She'll come back as fire, to burn all the liars, and leave a blanket of ash on the ground


He didn't necessarily live the easiest life either, he was pretty much a misfit for his entire childhood since he was an artist living in a tiny town full of loggers. He seemed to be even an outcast amongst his own family as he was constantly being shuttled back and forth between different relatives since none of them knew how to deal with him. Couple that with his health issues, including that he was probably clinically bipolar and it really seems to me that he wasn't necessarily in control of his life circumstances much of the time.

Does it justify his suicide? Of course not. But I can absolutely emphathize with the fact that his life was probably not that happy overall.

Actually I think I am wrong - shooter jennings is a bigger no talent pussy

kurt cobain (not curt, or kurt kobain, etc...) will never be confused with shooter jennings, and nobody with a brain would disagree with that.

uh oh, maybe i need to hear nirvana on a mcintosh to understand how much they sucked.

Let sleeping dogs lie. If you can't think up an original thread or response, at least keep your hate mongering and judgementalism to yourself. Please and thanks.

Let sleeping dogs lie. If you can't think up an original thread or response, at least keep your hate mongering and judgementalism to yourself. Please and thanks.

get a life, join greenpeace or something. please and thank you.

Attitude, fellas. Attitude.

by extrapolation and intuition, i am pretty sure that kurt was a total drug addict asshole, and also was a great musician. not a terribly uncommon combination

True enough.
It would be better to discuss what makes music appeal to people. What sets one artist from another.
Then Curt Cobain would float to the top as one of the few greats in his genre and time period.
If he had been medicated to relieve his depression, he wouldnt have penned the lyrics that so many related too.
The argument is always the same.... Theres the camp that has no feel for music but likes the tune and then theres the camp that thinks its crap unless you feel the music. These are emotional differences in humans, not music. Both are viable. Music structure itself satisfies some and for others the music must have meaning. Just as your tastes have changed throughout your life so do those of musicians. Curt would have certainly faded away as he got older just as Alice in chains and Pearl Jam have. Just as the back street boys or Jewel have, just as we all do.
Just as popular, not as creative.

IMO


..

good thoughts...

This seems like more than enough to me. From the forum rules: Likewise, attacks on an individual “outside” of the forum are not allowed. (Example: "Barry Manilow is an *sshole!")

Closed.