View Full Version : Shootout! - SX-1080, TX-8500, JCX-2900K; ... other ~120 wpc?


Susurus
05-28-2009, 09:52 PM
Any predictions? :scratch2:

Why these 3 units? What 120 watters would you include?

Not as much info as the flashier, star top-billing 160+ TOTL units. And my SX-1050 isn't working... :dunno:

Before the important listening, a few comments:

The Onkyo has the best shielding.

The Pioneer has a toroid, the other two are dual mono E-transformers.

All have 4-gangs.

Onkyo's faceplate dark glow style harkens back to mid 70's--the other two are Silver-Everywhere flashiness of the very last of the Silver 1979-1980 period.

Onkyo: Toshiba T-03's.
Sanyo: Toshiba T-03's. 551,681
Pioneer: outputs look like flat packs but very high bandwidth. NEK(?)

The SX-1080 has the lowest distortion specs, the other two say higher 4-Ohm ability.

The knobs and pots on the Onkyo are not as good.

The 1080 has fun Power Meters... :thmbsp:

I'll of course use the same source, speakers, wires, etc. for the 'yo, other 'yo, & Pio...

SoCal Sam
05-28-2009, 10:44 PM
Do you own these units or are you looking to purchase a receiver in this power class?

AnalogDigit
05-28-2009, 10:56 PM
How bought the Realistic STA 2100, STA 2300? Both are 120 watts per channel.

BrocLuno
05-28-2009, 10:58 PM
How about an MCS 3125?

Robisme
05-28-2009, 10:59 PM
TX-8500.

Rob

Sir.Byrd
05-28-2009, 11:01 PM
Pictures?

kydog
05-29-2009, 01:13 AM
The Pioneer SX D7000 get's my vote:yes::music:

Hifirob2
05-29-2009, 01:29 AM
How about a Technics SA-1010? 120wpc with less than 0.003% THD. Nice warm Class A, and cheesy "Space Dimension" control that actually isn't cheesy sounding at all. A great FM section, too, with both digital and analog displays. You just have to get used to the face - there are no knobs.

Freezer7Pro
05-29-2009, 01:29 AM
The Luxman L-120A is a nice integrated. One of the few amplifiers I know with a Loudness button that actually does a nice job. Rated for 110WPC at 0.01%. I can draw about 150WPC out of mine into eight Ohms before it clips.

Sir.Byrd
05-29-2009, 02:00 AM
How about a Technics SA-1010? 120wpc with less than 0.003% THD. Nice warm Class A, and cheesy "Space Dimension" control that actually isn't cheesy sounding at all. A great FM section, too, with both digital and analog displays. You just have to get used to the face - there are no knobs.

You sure its class A? 120 class A watts is not easy feat.

secondslc
05-29-2009, 07:38 AM
You sure its class A? 120 class A watts is not easy feat.

Its not pure class-a. Its a heavily biased Class A/B unit that probably plays class-a for maybe 10 watts. JVC called it Super-A, Denon did it in the 80s, and Technics did it with their new class A products. Marantz did PURE class-A up to 30 watts in some of their high end gear.

After trying all of them, the Marantz comes out on top as it is pure class-A, and the JVC is a close second with an extremely accurate sound. The denon and technics...dont play them on revealing speakers if you want to listen to music for hours.

Firby13
05-29-2009, 08:00 AM
The Pioneer SX D7000 get's my vote

Ran one of those for 20+ years, most of that time under a 4 ohm or tougher load, Lightning got it in the end .. Very nice and under rated gear.
My manual recommended at least 6" clearance above the unit and it needed it.
If that was mine I would at least slide the TT as far to the right as possible.
You'll be doing yourself a favor.

Another very nice sounding 120 watter is the Optonica SA-5905.
Dual mono, 4 gang FM, But no pre out / main in or prossessor loop like the SX-D7000.

Here is a Nude of the SA-5905.

Steve

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55123&d=1185016124

Mark W.
05-29-2009, 09:45 AM
I vote for the SX-1080

yrly
05-29-2009, 09:48 AM
Fisher RS-1060.

Jon_Logan
05-29-2009, 10:05 AM
.....? Shootout? vs? cage match??? What is the criteria for "winning"? Is this a vote in thing?

GOYA
05-29-2009, 10:22 AM
Kenwood KR-9400
Yamaha CR-2040

For a ringer integrated - try to get your hands on a Luxman L-110.

adam-ads
05-29-2009, 12:16 PM
Nad 7080

motorstereo
05-29-2009, 03:17 PM
What? No mention of the 120 watt sansui g8000?

Sam Cogley
05-29-2009, 03:21 PM
Kenwood KR-9400
Yamaha CR-2040

For a ringer integrated - try to get your hands on a Luxman L-110.

It took a full page to get a mention of the KR-9400, the first shot of the 70s "receiver war"? :no:

junkaudio
05-29-2009, 03:32 PM
pioneer sx - 1080 all the way :smoke:

Susurus
05-29-2009, 06:10 PM
Yes, I do have these 3 all set up and ready to make some noise...

This is great! Sometimes the 'second from the top of the line' wattage class* doesn't get the attention it deserves. I think it's cool that there's no consensus going in, and suggestions too.

Since I have a zoo of speakers, this will not be an easy, sit and make a few notes test. E-stats, Maggies, DQ's, SpeakerLabs, Klipsch... I'm going to make an all-out effort.

Will the highest-priced one take the prize? Am I too prejudiced to be objective?

Firby13 nice pic!

I'll stack them for a group shot, lights-off tuner dial faceplates too. I'll link to earlier pics I made of the insides.

(*) Yeah I know the JCX-2900K and TX-8500 were TOTL at the time of their release... and actually outweigh some of the 150+ monsters.

lha1992
05-29-2009, 06:16 PM
How about the Kenwood KR-8010?

Either 120wpc or 125wpc I think.

Susurus
05-29-2009, 06:49 PM
Sam Cogley, lha1992 : I regret I no longer have my Kenwood KR-8010. My KR-9050 is 80wpc beyond 120 so it's in the other room during this competition. KR-7600 will have to wait for its class to have some fun. If you call competing with my R-1070 fair (that cost maybe double new). GOYA, speaking of cost, a CR-2040... would be very nice...

My SX-1050 isn't ready for prime or any other time either, which is a shame--since it gets 170wpc@4ohms it would stand a better chance in the 'Maggie Stage' against the non-toroid Dual Monos. Pioneer listed the SX-1080 at 150@4ohms but that's at a very low distortion level. (DC and Bias in spec on the 1080, did that yesterday).

BrocLuno I only got to see an MCS-3125 once, running a corroded garage setup. No they refused to sell it, :rolleyes: At least I tried.

Yes, yrly, my Fisher is the RS-1080 which is way over the weight/power/price class of this thread; but if I finagled a 1060 it would be a Contender...maybe even in the pole position.

Motorstereo, AK'ers are welcome to bring what you have on over to join the lineup...


Freezer7Pro, as you see from my burgeoning sig file, Luxman gear is welcome here anytime :music:--but like the Kenwoods, my collection's got a gap tooth between the 3rd and 1st tier. Sweet as they sound, I didn't pick my R-1050, 1070 to go up against these 3; and the R-117 is really too new (1987). L-55A isn't a receiver (and besides it's got a hum issue I haven't cured yet).

Susurus
05-29-2009, 07:08 PM
.....? Shootout? vs? cage match??? What is the criteria for "winning"? Is this a vote in thing?

Of course!

Go ahead and vote for your best-sounding 120 WPC and under (or so) vintage analog receiver!

I'm going to use my speakers and my ears and wax philosophical as I torture my 3 contenders.

Of course there's been a lot of current under the bridge since 1979. My single examples can't generalize to a definitive conclusion; yours may be in better shape...

tarior
05-30-2009, 12:37 AM
In that 110 to 130 wpc power range I have:
Marantz 2330
Sansui 9090DB
Pioneer SX 1050
Sanyo JCX 2900K
Kenwood KR 8010
MCS 3125
Onkyo TX 8500

My sonic favorite, and the last one I would consider selling is the Marantz 2330. The rest are all a close second, depending on which speakers I have them coupled with.
For robust build, the Onk and the Sanyo (whoduthunk?) with their dual transformers are sweet. Overall quality of build and fit and finish goes to the Pioneer, hands down.
The MCS is a surprisingly strong performer, very neutral and pleasant (MCS could have omitted the built in EQ), punchy and the tuner ain't bad at all.
In short, I like all of them, and each has a place in my collection.

SoCal Sam
05-30-2009, 12:56 AM
Yes, I do have these 3 all set up and ready to make some noise...

The TX-8500 has the best amp but it let down by the preamp. Try a CDP with variable output and bypass the amp and you will hear a huge difference. I've never been a fan of Pioneers SX receivers, they sound the best with HPM speakers and that is not saying much. The JCX-2900K might be the sleeper of the bunch with the better preamp enough to edge the TX-8500.

Too bad you don't have a Concept 11.0 to toss into the ring. IMO, one of the best sounding in the 100-125 wpc class.

tarior
05-30-2009, 01:05 AM
I had my grubby paws on a Concept 11.0 here last year. It is a very nice receiver, but I don't think it sounded any better or otherwise outperformed any of the rest on my list. As good? certainly. Better? nah. IMO, of course.

Susurus
06-01-2009, 04:30 PM
...Pioneers SX receivers, they sound the best with HPM speakers...

I'll have the HPM-1500's refoamed by the 3rd stage of testing... I know, they won't be broken in yet... :nono:

tarior that's a great list. One caveat, no surprise to me that the highest-WPC (and most expensive?) on your list gets accolades... Should 120 should be the upper limit for fair comparisons here... so maybe the 2330a and 9090dB push above that and there's plenty of info about these favorites, not so much head-to-head tests on the others... Sansui 9090(non-dB), at 110 wpc?

I've got very limited exposure to Marantz and Sansui, they tend 'warm' and I tend to go no warmer than Luxman.

Years ago before I knew anything about speakers I ran Bose 501s. Ah well, if they hadn't been such poor speakers I might never have upgraded from a Concept 4.5 to the 11.0 so thank you Dr. Amir B for the encouragement! :arrow:

tarior
06-01-2009, 04:43 PM
10 watts per channel one way or the other is pretty inconsequential on a receiver that is rated for over 100. IMO, of course. The Sansui 9090DB had the highest list price, $900. The Kenwood was the cheapest at $530, a bargain for sure.

Susurus
06-01-2009, 07:25 PM
But I like the 3 I have left in that 110-120wpc range and want to do an extensive test.

The Sanyo is somewhat obscure, a sleeper in the real sense; the TX-8500 is a slightly neglected excellent performer and the SX-1080 seems sullied because its build quality appears to be a step down from its immediate predecessor.

True, +-10 wpc on paper amounts to a lot less than the advertizers would lead me to believe. I'm more impressed by what magic happens when they're running, the lights are out, and I'm focussed on the :music:

I was thinking that a Marantz 2325 would be just over the limit here... (lots of Marantz reviews/opinions, so my scanty ramblings wouldn't add anything to AK's knowledge base). At 110 it's more fair to compare a non-dB 9090 to the TX-8500 (125 wpc a 9090dB).

davis
06-02-2009, 08:01 AM
I'm glad someone started this thread, this is exactly what i'm hoping to pick up next! The Marantz 2325 is my first pick but a little over budget. Pioneer sx1050 is next. The Kenwood kr8010 is a possibility as an immediate gratification purchase, although I haven't really really experience the Kenwood sound as I'd like to. Are any of these prone to problems? I notice Pioneer people tend to pick the 1050 over the 1080, is this because of reliability and parts availability, or is the 1050 simply more common?

tarior
06-02-2009, 10:00 AM
I notice Pioneer people tend to pick the 1050 over the 1080, is this because of reliability and parts availability, or is the 1050 simply more common?

Likely a little bit of both.
You won't go wrong with a Kenwood IMO, excellent receivers.

Theabs
06-02-2009, 11:30 AM
I recently acquired an Akai AA-1200, and it's nice! Dual mono, 120 WPC, very understated styling, sounds great.

sanyofreak
06-02-2009, 01:12 PM
Just for some more info and unqualified observation, I dont have a TX-8500 or SX-1080, but I have, a while ago, directly compared the JCX-2900K vs my Sansui G-8700db, and the results surprised me..Using the same speakers, there is no doubt the big Sanyo had much, much more authority and effortlessness in it amplifiers - the Sansui although clear as a bell, just sounded thin and strained, even though on paper at 8 ohms its rating bests the JCX by 40 watts/ch. and has a lower THD number, although both are under .1%. The tuners were very close and I would give the sensitivity to the Sansui, but both sounded equally sweet on decently strong stations. Both units run very cool, the big Sansui thanks to its rear external heatsink exposure, the JCX is adaquately sinked and the configuration inside the unit keeps much of the output device heating away from everything else, and also forms a sort of internal "chimney" similar to lets say an AU-717 arrangement. The tone controls on the preamps are both triple types, with multiple turnover points for the bass & treble, although the Sanyo seems to have a greater range of effect with the tone controls. (Did any of the Pioneer vintage receivers have triple tone controls??)
Inside its pretty hard to compare, as the G8700 is at least two years younger - its a bit more modular and neatly wired than the Sanyo, but even with its decently sized single toroid, its clear the power supply(s) on the JCX have alot more meat. I think from my observations that, with a 4 ohm load, the JCX will easily outpower the higher rated G8700.
I dont like the fake rosewood on the Sansui, and the faceplate and knobs dont look or feel as heavy, but its still a pretty unit lit up, perhaps a bit more elegant looking, where the JCX is very pioneer SX-xx50 looking, IMHO, even better with its chrome tuner dial bumper and black accent flanks on same dial.
It was fun to compare, but afterwards, my impression was that these units, even though only two or three years apart, maybe as much as 4 years, really didnt compare. The Sansui is a hybrid quartz locked tuner with a digital display (its an analog tuner though, I know) and seemed that cost cutting was in play, where the JCX was just before any of those thoughts entered the mix, and is an all-out "this is what we can build" at a cost is little object mentality. From what I've learned from other AK'ers, that is the history of what happened economically - the G-8000 is more in line with the JCX-2900, time wise - and I think comparing the 8000 the the 8700 would yield similar observations.
I've certainly got my favorite (no surprise), and I think that all three are great units, each having different strengths and weaknesses, which I believe will be the outcome, but it will be worthwhile and informative to hear someone else's impressions of where they excel or fall short of one another. Again, any or all three have lots of proud owners out there - deserved. I'll be watching to see which one comes out where.

Susurus
06-02-2009, 03:45 PM
(Did any of the Pioneer vintage receivers have triple tone controls??)

The SX-1250 has four, but since it says 50Hz, 100, 10000 and 20000Hz I consider that setup Bass, Mid, Treble plus 'High Treble'; 20K is pretty high for a major tone control knob. (but since my HPM-1500 says to 40K that's only the halfway point. :dunno The HPM-1010 went to 50K...plasma tweeters top 150K so it's possible to get from over reserve capacity bandwidth to rediculous. )

The SX-1080 has switchable xover points, but fewer than the JCX-2900K's 3 buttons over the knobs gives you.

Susurus
06-02-2009, 04:20 PM
Imagine the Pioneer execs around the boardroom table...

"Mr. Chairman, let's test how Advents and Cerwin-Vegas and Mach I's sound on our receivers for the American market."

"Why, Kabuki-San? They must buy our HPM speakers. They were voiced for them; it would be silly to connect anything else. I'm upping the advertizing budget to cultivate brand loyalty. "

-------

My old HPM-100's did sound thier best on my SX-1250, and hope my foams-on-thier-way HPM-1500's are even better.

Would the G-8000 or 8700 sound better using Sansui speakers?

I've actually never heard a Sansui speaker I could stand, but since I've never heard a set connected to its kinfolk maybe I need to reserve a little judgement.

Same with Marantz speakers...(kfa888's Imperial 9's excepted, of course :wave: )

- the G-8000 is more in line with the JCX-2900, time wise - and I think comparing the 8000 the the 8700 would yield similar observations.

Thanks for your coherently articulated impressions! Do you recall which speakers were attached at the time?

Susurus
06-02-2009, 04:26 PM
I recently acquired an Akai AA-1200, and it's nice! Dual mono, 120 WPC, very understated styling, sounds great.

I got to hear one once, on a set of NLA's that I refoamed for the owner. One of the few Dual-Mono receivers--it had an effortless sound. Brought up to spec, I can imagine what it was capable of. :thmbsp:

Not many pics of those around... hint hint...

Dr. Music
06-02-2009, 04:47 PM
I'd throw in the Technics SA-800 just for good measure, 120 WPC with several fans on AK :)

Susurus
06-04-2009, 08:37 AM
Besides my Luxman R- series, that Technics is one of the few I've heard of in the twilight between silver-faced/analog and LED/Fluoroscan that kept the quality high and just added on a useful display.

Thanks again GordonW for the quick turnaround on my HPM-1500 surrounds!

I did get a blister removing the duct tape adhesive from the rubber guide rail ring (first I've seen that wasn't pressed paper). Yes, the previous owner thought duct tape would work as a surround. At least he didn't toss the woofers when the foam disintegrated!

barredowl
06-04-2009, 03:01 PM
I am surprised the Sansui 9090db isn't getting more discussion here. My understanding is it's one of the best receivers in this class? Considering ho good my 5000X and AU D11 II sound I wouldn't doubt it... I also don't quite understand why the big Pioneers go for close to a thousand bucks? I had my hand briefly on a non working SX-1250 and it was VERY nice with it's big toroidal transformer and huge caps, but didn't look THAT much more beefy than 300 dollar Sansui D11 II integrated, shrug.

Susurus
06-05-2009, 08:31 PM
I also don't quite understand why the big Pioneers go for close to a thousand bucks?


Style, a particular timeframe that evokes Nostalgia from one's critical formative years can fixate with a powerful effect...

Or it's the old separates/receivers thing; collectable trends and directions don't always follow the best sound. (Most people's major purchase decisions are emotionally-laden mistakes, but that's for another thread).

Another detail is 'top of the line' draw power. That SX-1250 was TOTL at the time of its release. I've got one because of what it represents--the pinnacle of consumer mass-market receiver build quality for Pioneer. Discrete so I can always fix it too. :thmbsp:

I thought all the AU- series Sansuis cost more. I listen often to my TU-X1, which looks like a frog but seriously has the best FM I've ever heard anywhere.

Sam Cogley
06-05-2009, 08:48 PM
I'm glad someone started this thread, this is exactly what i'm hoping to pick up next! The Marantz 2325 is my first pick but a little over budget. Pioneer sx1050 is next. The Kenwood kr8010 is a possibility as an immediate gratification purchase, although I haven't really really experience the Kenwood sound as I'd like to. Are any of these prone to problems? I notice Pioneer people tend to pick the 1050 over the 1080, is this because of reliability and parts availability, or is the 1050 simply more common?

It's a bit older, and somewhat sadly lacking VU meters, but the KR-9400 has an excellent sound - it also has the advantage of being nearly indestructible, easy to fix when it breaks (discrete transistors instead of Darlington power packs or ICs), and cheap compared to its 120WPC brethren. There is almost always one for sale on eBay.

Same with Marantz speakers...(kfa888's Imperial 9's excepted, of course :wave: )

I'd recommend listening to some 8s if you can find them. I'd love to hear a pair of 9s to compare...

Besides my Luxman R- series, that Technics is one of the few I've heard of in the twilight between silver-faced/analog and LED/Fluoroscan that kept the quality high and just added on a useful display.

Kenwood made some nice gear in that analog/digital twilight around 1980. Some of it is a bit odd-looking, but it's well-built and sounds good.

Brad Muller
06-05-2009, 10:44 PM
Are we gonna get this shootout going already or what? If you need a pair of speakers, I'm sure we could come up with a set pretty quickly.:yes:

Susurus
06-06-2009, 01:43 AM
Agreed. This shootout needs less conjecture from me and more A/B/C. I won't post here again til I've got Listening Comparisons...

:rockon:

Susurus
06-07-2009, 03:54 AM
Pics for you.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/just44fotos/ShootoutSPO/1-AllDarkcrop80.jpg?t=1244364670

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/just44fotos/ShootoutSPO/2-SemiDark80.jpg?t=1244364672

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/just44fotos/ShootoutSPO/3-Brown2rt80.jpg?t=1244364673

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/just44fotos/ShootoutSPO/4-2900Klight80.jpg?t=1244364674

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/just44fotos/ShootoutSPO/5-rt2bright80.jpg?t=1244364676

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/just44fotos/ShootoutSPO/6-semidark80.jpg?t=1244364677

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/just44fotos/ShootoutSPO/7-maggie-NS1kM80.jpg?t=1244364678

Susurus
06-07-2009, 04:08 AM
Listen. Look. Don't Stop. :D

Folks this is going to be hard to rank in an absolute sense. My priorities are not yours. My number 1 may be your 3.

Begin...

My shorthand--in case you want to GREP.

(SPO) = (Sanyo, Pioneer, Onkyo)

M - Magnepan MG-IIc (Magneplanars, 2-way, mostly resistive load, low efficiency)
Y - NS-1000M (JVC ribbon-tweeter substituted for dead Berylliums).
H - HPM-1500 (new surrounds still breaking in, stuffing in ports? Could be added mod?)

F - Fulton Modular E, E-stat hybrids
I - Infinty 2000A E-stat Hybrids

K - Klipsch (Horns indeed; Early 1957 oil mil-spec caps Heresy's, or 2001 RF-7 TOTL HT towers)
D - Dahlquist DQ-series (limited baffles mids/highs, staggered/slanted time-aligned; closed bass cabs)
B - Bozak Symphonies (infinite baffle: 2 x 12", 6" mid, 8 tweeter vert. array)
7 - SpeakerLab 7, (closed cab: horn mids/tweets, 12" + 10" woofer pair)

Susurus
06-07-2009, 04:12 AM
Speaker Wires

First session test--on Maggies, I know that my 10g contractor's wire, (low count strands) has better high frequency than the tinned-ends 10g Maxxus high-count braided or the 12g Monster consumer-grade slop.

Could be the tinned ends have higher resistance than the bare-screwed Banana ends? I should cut those off and crimp.

Susurus
06-07-2009, 04:21 AM
Amp Section only - Bass

Yamaha CD -->Yamaha C-4 pre's--> (SPO)-->
-->10g--> YM--> smaller room

-------------------

There's more in common with the C-4's driving the amp sections. The differences between fronts ends are more immediatly apparent than the amp sections.

Higher- SPL on Maggies not as compressed as expected. HF imbalance on my kluge NS-1000M's not as pronounced either. :nerd:

MTV Unplugged CD used here because I'm a vinyl noob and don't trust my SL-10's alignment on the MC301, but midrange will need vinyl and my RT-707. I don't have SACD or DVD-A, been waiting for Blu-Ray Audio to catch on.

cdfac
06-07-2009, 11:38 AM
Pics for you.

noticed you've got a few bulbs out in the 2900K along the top. luckily mine were all working, and it's impressive to me that they're absolutely seamless to the eye. provides a neat effect. i'll see if i can post a pic tonight.

cdfac
06-08-2009, 12:09 AM
pics as promised. i posted these two because in person the lighting is right in between, maybe a bit close to the darker one because the dial fading from top to middle is pretty prominent.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Wbvv9PgiQNI/SiyPVfQmb5I/AAAAAAAAA3Q/uY6NiHsbVX8/s512/IMG_2074.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Wbvv9PgiQNI/SiyNoQwK_qI/AAAAAAAAA3A/L8EHJVsXar0/s512/IMG_2071.JPG

SpeakerLabFan
06-09-2009, 01:12 PM
:lurk:

A short intermission while the OP is away gathering in some of the gear falling from the sky this week...?

I'm going to use my speakers and my ears and wax philosophical as I torture my 3 contenders.

something about this... :smoke:

another vote for the Concept 11 :thmbsp:

Susurus
06-09-2009, 07:40 PM
Indeed... The Ear Wax FAQ (http://www.doctorhoffman.com/wax.htm)

http://www.the-spine.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/tcspock.jpg

spine (http://www.the-spine.com/archives/372)

OnkyoMan
10-12-2009, 11:53 PM
What happened to the results of this shootout?

Susurus
10-13-2009, 02:42 PM
They are all good units really. I sold the Pioneer. The Sanyo is on loan to a friend. Listened to the Onkyo with DQ-20's last night.

Guess that means I voted with my feet?

Damage
10-13-2009, 04:59 PM
Not sure it would ever be a fair shootout. Unless you are willing to recap and check voltage on the transistors for all units, you'll never know whether the sound or performance is as intended or is due to the age.