Hey,

It seems like I'm constantly setting up a turntable and having to set the tracking force. So I keep thinking about buying a tracking force gauge to make things easier, but i'm not sure how much i need it.

All in all I came to looking at something really cheap that would make it worthwhile if it'll work.

What I ended up looking at was just a regular pocket scale like
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pocket-Digital-Scale-Weigh-Gold-Herb-Powder-0-1-x-500g_W0QQitemZ260410918123QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co llectables_Tobacciana_Smoking_LE?hash=item3ca1b344 eb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0 |293%3A1|294%3A50
or http://cgi.ebay.ca/100g-x-0-01-Digital-Pocket-Scale-Weigh-Jewelry-Gold-Gem_W0QQitemZ300318099737QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Jew ellery_Watches_JewelleryBoxes_Supplies_CA?hash=ite m45ec5a8919&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0 |293%3A1|294%3A50

I just wasn't sure if it would work the same way and be a good idea. I tried searching for information but it's sort of an obscure thing to try to find out googling.

Anyone else use the same idea that can say it works?

Thanks

From what I've seen on the setup DVD as long as you can get the height to match the platter height including a record it should be just the ticket. I believe the second one had a .01 gram accuracy as opposed to .1 gram for the first. I would chose the second based on that and might very well buy one myself now that you have come up with it. Thing is I've never dared to order anything off e-bay to come from Hong Kong. Is it reliable? Looks like it by the feedback score. Keep us posted if you go for it.

Bob

I use a pocket scale I got at Harbor Freight. It was cheap, but not as cheap as those links.

Two issues occur to me. First is size -- you want a scale that can be put at the same height as the platter, and some scales are too large. The first one looks ok, did n't look at the second one. Second is the low end of the scale --the first one reads up to 500 grams, so you would be using only the very bottom of its reading ability, and it might be less accurate down there. I don't think accuracy to hundredths or even tenths of a gram is all that important -- tracking force is always a compromise, and that compromise is best set by ear -- but if you are using a gauge, it would nice if it were repeatable and reliable.

I have one very similar to the second and your only concern is ensuring that your tone arm elevation is consistent with what it will be with an LP on the platter. I'm very happy with mine, by the way. You may wish to try Amazon. That's where I picked up mine. Others I'm sure will chime in on this thread as well.

I got a Shure scale from Amazon, on sale <$20 shipped. It's not digital (balance beam) but it has a good reputation for accuracy. I don't see the need to take stylus tracking force down to 0.01 gram anyway...

If the gague is thick you may be able to remove the platter and shim it to the proper height. I believe it is important to measure at record height. I did a quick e-bay.ca search and found 2760 results so there is quite a choise.

I'm a cheapskate, so I'd go with that first one. That's the equivalent of US $8.00 shipped. As long as you can get it between the platter and the arm rest so that the needle can rest on some part of the scale, you're fine. Shim it up to the equivalent level of a record with playing cards, then just tape them together.

Good to hear this could work.

I ended up buying the second one: It's described as being a bit thinner, 15mm compared to 18mm, and it is more accurate.
It's also only, what, $1.70 more.

I'll post how well it works, but it'll take a week or two to get here of course.

Good comments so far. One thing I've had told to me, but haven't seen it myself as of yet, is, some say that these newfangled digital scales can be magnetic.

This supposedly can cause errors with weighing, and further cause damage with having a cartridge dive bomb onto the scale.

In regards to the ultra cheapo digital scales, I honestly just don't know of thier usefulness-effectiveness in regards to use as a VTF Scale for Cartridge? Mark

I use a piece of Magic Eraser cut to the appropriate thickness to be the same height as the record. It provides a safe medium to set the stylus into when setting VTF.

I bought a cheapo digtial scale also , I super glued a paper clip to it sticking out front and then glued a small hunk of ME on it , with a casette tape under the scale , the paper clip rides at the proper height and viloa . I used it this week during cart swaps and found out I had balanced my arm wrong by .5 gram so well worth the investment , mine was $15 shipped , good investment . the paper clip adds no weight as it zero's itself when you turn it on. Great tool if you are swapping carts often

Good comments so far. One thing I've had told to me, but haven't seen it myself as of yet, is, some say that these newfangled digital scales can be magnetic.

This supposedly can cause errors with weighing, and further cause damage with having a cartridge dive bomb onto the scale.

In regards to the ultra cheapo digital scales, I honestly just don't know of thier usefulness-effectiveness in regards to use as a VTF Scale for Cartridge? Mark
Mark, if this were the first time it was being suggested, you might have a point. But dozens of AK members have been using these successfully with no problems, myself included.

I hope this works well for you. I would like to use a scale that the 0.75-2.0 gram tracking force was in the middle of the range of the scale no matter what the resolution is. These may be fine, but using the bottom 2% of the full range of the scale does not instill confidence.

Mark, if this were the first time it was being suggested, you might have a point. But dozens of AK members have been using these successfully with no problems, myself included.

Sorry Howard/All, I re-read my last post, and after reading your response, I can see how what I wrote might be misunderstood, or mistaken that I've somehow suggested-implied that all these digital scales are somehow not appropriate for Cartridge VTF use for the reason I state above.

Of course, this is not generally the case, as many of these are just wonderful to use, but evidently, somewhere along the line, I gather somebody has found one that was not suited for this use.

Sorry if I appeared to be an "alarmist", bringing up this possible anomaly. Mark

I hope this works well for you. I would like to use a scale that the 0.75-2.0 gram tracking force was in the middle of the range of the scale no matter what the resolution is. These may be fine, but using the bottom 2% of the full range of the scale does not instill confidence.
If this was a spring operated scale, I'd understand that, but being electronic, it is accurate throughout the range.

I use a $15 digital pocket scale I bought off eBay. It was important to me that it reads in 100th of a gram (0.01). If I'm going to bother to buy a specific-use scale for my TT, why NOT have it be as precise/sensitive as possible? It doesn't cost any more and does not limit the use of the scale in any way. Call me crazy, but I like to know that my VTF is at 1.25gr, and not 1.21 or 1.29 gr.

I use a $15 digital pocket scale I bought off eBay. It was important to me that it reads in 100th of a gram (0.01). If I'm going to bother to buy a specific-use scale for my TT, why NOT have it be as precise/sensitive as possible? It doesn't cost any more and does not limit the use of the scale in any way. Call me crazy, but I like to know that my VTF is at 1.25gr, and not 1.21 or 1.29 gr.

Me Too. We all get really anal about things, but I just like to know what it really is.

I'm all for insane levels of accuracy if it only costs $15. But there are supposedly purpose specific tracking force scales which cost large sums. They don't make any sense to me because spending that money on a better cartridge would actually produce much more of a benefit. So if these cheap scales are actually accurate, they're a great deal.

Good to hear this could work.

I ended up buying the second one: It's described as being a bit thinner, 15mm compared to 18mm, and it is more accurate.
It's also only, what, $1.70 more.

I'll post how well it works, but it'll take a week or two to get here of course.

Ordered one too... my first venture into tracking force precision!

I'm all for insane levels of accuracy if it only costs $15. But there are supposedly purpose specific tracking force scales which cost large sums. They don't make any sense to me because spending that money on a better cartridge would actually produce much more of a benefit. So if these cheap scales are actually accurate, they're a great deal.
Yea that's what I was confused, because I only knew about the super expensive scales. If this works well I don't see the point in those "professional" scales

I bought one off Ebay a while ago. really makes things easier and makes ya feel better knowing your force is dead on.

Yea that's what I was confused, because I only knew about the super expensive scales. If this works well I don't see the point in those "professional" scales
Well, there is a scale that is specifically made so that the part that weighs is only the thickness of a record, therefore it only need be placed on the platter--no shimming necessary and no worries about whether it will fit between the arm rest and the platter. I can understand that selling for more because it was designed specifically for phono applications.

But as to the others, I would be very surprised if they were not the same China-made scales as the cheap ones. Many audiophiles will not take a an accessory seriously unless it is marketed as "professional" and costs significant money. If you have any doubts, buy the cheapie on ebay and buy an expensive one from a dealer where you can return it, and compare. And then we'll know the truth.

And then we'll know the truth.

We know the truth already! The cheap ones are just that..., cheap.

More importantly and regarding the accuracy of the scale, how do you know that the VTF is actually set at 1.5g? Is it only because the cheap digital scale (or the expensive digital scale) says so?

I have both, the balance VTF scale and a digital scale. I have to say that the digital seems more accurate because of the precise display (you have to have REALLY sharp vision to be able to see that the balanced scale indicators are perfectly aligned).

But for the digital scale to work and to have any level of reliability you need to have a reference weight to calibrate the scale with. Without a reference weight you will never know if your 1.5g is spot on or if it is up or down by some factor.

But for the digital scale to work and to have any level of reliability you need to have a reference weight to calibrate the scale with. Without a reference weight you will never know if your 1.5g is spot on or if it is up or down by some factor.

My $15 (delivered) digital scale came with calibration weights. They're still selling them: (not affiliated etc...)
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-x-0-01-Gram-Digital-Scale-W-Calibration-Weight-New_W0QQitemZ260421090539QQihZ016QQcategoryZ34088Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

someone pm'd me about my paper clip scale , so here's the link to the post
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196495

I have used a coin to check the accuracy , forget which one , but someone posted on here the weight of said coin , canadian , and the scale was bang on with the coin on the ME . Wish I could now remember what coin it was ? So $15 vs $100 ,plus it is just a saftey net in frenzied cart swaps as I try and float the arm first and then use the scale to check the setting , most times I'm good , but as mentioned sometimes not . for the price it fits my bill .

Rumor has it:

Canadian dime = 1.75g
U.S Nickel = 5g

We know the truth already! The cheap ones are just that..., cheap.

More importantly and regarding the accuracy of the scale, how do you know that the VTF is actually set at 1.5g? Is it only because the cheap digital scale (or the expensive digital scale) says so?

I have both, the balance VTF scale and a digital scale. I have to say that the digital seems more accurate because of the precise display (you have to have REALLY sharp vision to be able to see that the balanced scale indicators are perfectly aligned).

But for the digital scale to work and to have any level of reliability you need to have a reference weight to calibrate the scale with. Without a reference weight you will never know if your 1.5g is spot on or if it is up or down by some factor.

Exactly thisone, you hit the nail on the head. Without a reference weight to check accuracy, one could blow $800 on a Winds Scale, and never know just how accurate, unless double checking with some reference weights.

With a Digital Scale, with a weighing platform, this can be easy. But with a Balance Beam type Scale, such as the Shure SFG-2, it would be an impossible affair, checking accuracy with a reference weight.

As I mentioned in some thread here a long time ago, one can make a weighing ledge, to attach to weighing platform from some non-ferrous-non magnetic material, brass, aluminum, plastic, to use at LP height. Hobby shops commonly carry such DIY goodies. Mark

Has anyone tried this little guy?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1247614047&/Steve-Blinn-Designs-Digital-Stylus

Rumor has it:

Canadian dime = 1.75g
U.S Nickel = 5g

Thanks man , just tried it , 5 time's , 1.7 to 1.8 g , my cheapo doesn't do .05 g. Left the dime in the case for future use .

Mark, if this were the first time it was being suggested, you might have a point. But dozens of AK members have been using these successfully with no problems, myself included.

Brought three different digital scales from Ebay and I am sure that they are effected by the magnets in the carts. I noticed that when the stylus (Benz micro gold MC) is held very close to the scales with the tonearm lift, but not touching it the scale will start to read a wieght! - try it? I also note that the reading I get with the stylus directly on the scale is very different to that reading I get if I place a small piece of rubber (about 1cm thick) between the stylus and the scale. Obviously the reading has to be taken with the stylus at the same hight as the platter with a normal record on it. I also have a Shure and an Otofon scale, both more or less read the same (Give or take a few points of a gram) Interestingly niether read near the readings given by the digital scales? I tend to do the final set of VTF by ear and the digital scales tell me the vtf is below the recomended optimal wieght, using one of the manual ones tells me the VTF is above the optimal VTF but below the maximum recommended by the cartridge manufacturer! my conclusion is that I will trust Ortofon and Shure more than some Chinese sweatshop!

I think my best recomendation is to make the initial setting roughly with a scale (of any type) and make the final adjustments by ear. Even the cartridge manufactures tell you this! With the Benz Micro Gold its raelly not possible to set the VTF too high because if you do the stylus retracts into the cartridge and it bottoms out on the record!

i use a shure sfg-2...
a good old fashioned beam and pivot is more than acurate enough for me..:D

Hi

These are my scales. There are 3 setups here and I swop them around. I'm still not sure which one is accurate. The Kern was initially bought for weighing small amounts of anodising chemicals and I recently made the white gadget to measure at record height. I glued it in place with some thin double-sided tape.

The Kenwood is a recent gift from a flea marketer. Thanks to an AK member, I learned the mass of the calibrating weight, which is 1g and I'll be making one from brass later this evening.

The 3rd is a sprung scale from Garrard, also bought at a local flea market.

tripod

I received my scale today... Works great!

I tested it against my wife's commercial scale (she sells tea), and the precision is bang on.

After checking my different tts, I noted the following:

1) Systemdek IIX - stock arm weight off by .2g

2) Micro-Seiki MA-707 - very accurate

3) Lenco L-82 - stock arm weight off by .3g

This little thing is certainly worth $1.98 :thmbsp:

Hey,

It seems like I'm constantly setting up a turntable and having to set the tracking force. So I keep thinking about buying a tracking force gauge to make things easier, but i'm not sure how much i need it.

All in all I came to looking at something really cheap that would make it worthwhile if it'll work.

What I ended up looking at was just a regular pocket scale like
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pocket-Digital-Scale-Weigh-Gold-Herb-Powder-0-1-x-500g_W0QQitemZ260410918123QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co llectables_Tobacciana_Smoking_LE?hash=item3ca1b344 eb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0 |293%3A1|294%3A50
or http://cgi.ebay.ca/100g-x-0-01-Digital-Pocket-Scale-Weigh-Jewelry-Gold-Gem_W0QQitemZ300318099737QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Jew ellery_Watches_JewelleryBoxes_Supplies_CA?hash=ite m45ec5a8919&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0 |293%3A1|294%3A50

I just wasn't sure if it would work the same way and be a good idea. I tried searching for information but it's sort of an obscure thing to try to find out googling.

Anyone else use the same idea that can say it works?

Thanks



i would say it is a necessity, especially since you're are constantly setting up turntables and adjusting tracking forces. i have (soon to be "had") a shure t.f. gauge and recently bought a digital t.f. scale. the accuracy is amazing, and now that i have the digital scale, the shure is going up for sale.