Anyone know what Cryoset Deep Cryogenic Treatment of vacuum tubes is? I found this term used in the advertisement of a matched quad of 6CA7 tubes. Is it bullsh!t?

Cryoset Deep Cryogenic Treatment :
The proprietary Cryoset treatment process utilizes a computer controlled, cryogenic chamber to very gradually reduce the temperature of the tubes to 300 degrees below zero (Farenheit) and holding them there for a minimum of 24 hours. After the extended dwell at this cryogenic temperature, the vacuum tubes are then very slowly brought up to ambient temperature over the next 24 hours and stabilized. The process is a "dry" one that utilizes Liquid Nitrogen as a cryogen that is flashed into the chamber. The tubes are never exposed to the actual liquid. All these processes are microprocessor controlled under strict and verifiable conditions.

Scientists have known for years that material transformations occur when they are exposed to cryogenic temperatures. Many of the early discoveries were more fully explored by NASA engineers who were trying to understand what would happen to metals when subjected to the extreme temperatures of space. Today, a wide range of commercial items - from softball bats to race engines - are cryogenically treated to improve their performance by enhancing the material properties with "cold treating" or cryogenic processing.

This technology brings practical application to audio and other electrical components as well. Cryogenic treatment modifies the microstructure of the metals used in critical electronic components by reducing or eliminating voids and imperfections in the material. Crystal structures (or grains) have been shown to be modified after cryogenic treatment, creating a more uniform or homogenous microstructure. The thermal dissipation properties of the metals is improved, reducing hot spots and further contributing to extended life and improved performance. In addition, the physical contraction of the metals while under the deep freeze imparts a mechanical compression on the metals that contributes to improved signal transmission quality and speed.

The materials used in electronics are highly fabricated and the manufacturing processes used impart or induce stresses in them. In addition, welding and soldering adds additional stress from concentrated areas of heating. Most everyone recognizes that welded components often fail at the weld -- a "weak" spot. The weakness comes from residual stresses inherent in all materials, further exacerbated by manufacturing techniques or processes.

Cryogenic treatment relieves stresses and normalizes (or stabilizes) welded and soldered areas. This mechanism is founded in the observation first made by Bose and later by Einstein, that matter is at it most relaxed state when it has the least amount of kinetic energy (or molecular activity). Absolute zero (-459 Farenheit) is that point where no more energy can be extracted, or when a material is at its most "relaxed" state. While our Cryoset (R) thermal treatment does not get to absolute zero, you can understand how going to minus 300 degrees Fareneheit for an extend dwell time enables the material to become more relaxed and stress relieved.

The transformations that occur as result of cryogenic treatment are a permanent, one time modification to them.

The process makes a permanent change and the benefits do not deteriorate over time or upon return to operating temperature, it changes the whole way the vacuum tube performs. The major benefit has been a dramatic improvement in dymanic range. Bass response has been clearer with reduction in microphonics. The most starling fact has been how the tubes operates under saturated and overdriven conditions.

Oh my God, yes!

i am willing to bet $1 that before too long, there will be a post claiming that in fact, it is not BS. that in fact it is one of the greatest things to ever happen to a vacuum tube, and that you have no right to call it BS until you've tried it. and then, someone else will come along and challenge that post, and pretty soon, we'll have a good old fashioned cable thread, only it'll be a cryo-treated tube thread.

and from there we'll go to directional speaker cables, and amp mods done by cell phone, and jars of pebbles and wood coat racks that go in your listening room to reduce ....uh....magneto rays or something and so on and so forth...

Anyone know what Cryoset Deep Cryogenic Treatment of vacuum tubes is?

It's an excuse to charge you more for the tube! :thumbsdn:

smoke and mirrors and snake oil IMHO.

when it comes to stuff like this my go-to person is a recording engineer. they get paid to lay down what we spend money on to try to reproduce. if the recording engineers laugh at it, i take note.

SNAKE OIL :nono::nono::nono::nono::thumbsdn:

Kinda what I figured, but since i am a tube nube, I thought I should ask.

Thanks, Guys! :thmbsp:

SNAKE OIL

Cryogenic treated snake oil, that is... :D

As the physics of vacuum tubes happens in the vacuum space between the electrodes, it shouldn't matter what the electrodes are made of, as long as the electrodes are conductive material. And the crystalline structure inside the electrode material won't have any effect on the space between the electrodes.

i am willing to bet $1 that before too long, there will be a post claiming that in fact, it is not BS. that in fact it is one of the greatest things to ever happen to a vacuum tube, and that you have no right to call it BS until you've tried it. and then, someone else will come along and challenge that post, and pretty soon, we'll have a good old fashioned cable thread, only it'll be a cryo-treated tube thread.



You're only willing to bet that $1 because you've read all the previous cryo-tube threads around here... Yep.. every one of them was predictable.. LOL...

Actually cryo works great.....in making cold cash.....disappear!

Steve

I'd be inclined to think that it could actually do some harm.:thumbsdn:

Seems to work pretty well.

If you believe nothing about the claims made by users of cryo tubes, then you really haven't thought about it in depth; and open-mindedly.

One of the best reasons to use cryo treated tubes is simply to have the vast majority of junk tubes weeded out in the process. Crap tubes will tend to generally fail during the cryo process, or immediately afterward during the burn-in process that's performed by the cryo processing company. Plus, if the company is a highly reputable source that properly utilizes statistical data (before & after), there will be differences in those two sets of detailed measurements.

Does it affect the properties of the metals used in construction?. . . Yes.

Does it audubly change the sound characteristics of the tube?. . . Possibly, or not. Everyone hears differently.

Is it bad for the tube?. . . Possibly, or not. Most likely not from the viewpoint of a metalurgist.

Is it a wate of money? . . . Not if you're only paying 5% to 10% more for the tube.

It's far from 'snake oil'.

I am a mastering engineer and recording engineer. I use either select low-noise vintage preamp tubes or new production cryo-treated since my outboard tube equipment simply needs to have the lowest noise floor and the 'right' sound as consistently as possible.

I'm only talking about preamp signal tubes here (12AX7, 12AT7, 12AU7, 5751, 7025, etc), and not rectifiers or power tubes. Although I have used cryo treated rectifiers before.

. . Falcon

I don't need no cryoset deep cryogenic tube treatment, because my totem beaks make my sound rockz0rz. :yes:

Next up is my sine wave attracting interception nut cup. :smoke:

As a physicist, I would say yes- it is a waste of money. There is no independently peer verified, scientifically conducted study published detailing any empirical data on longevity, reliabilty, or augmented audio capabilities. Nada.

Keep in mind audio reproduction is concerned with the ready flow of electrons, and cryo treatment does not remove, nor organize the presence of trace mineral contaminents in a manner that will advance the flow of electrons. The fact it stresses tubes to provide a methodology to reveal potential early failures is a negative null test, and does not improve performance. If cryo was a spectacular service, vendors would double or triple guarantee periods on such sold tubes.

If you want to spend more money, you will be better served buying your tubes from a reputable vendor that tests them, matches them, and guarantees them.

I have found that certain manufacturers, proper testing, and honorable vendors are the best path to good tubes. :thmbsp:

I drop my tubes from 3 meters, on to a genuine linoleum floor. If the tube still works, I've weeded out the bad ones. The bad ones make more noise when they hit the floor.:D

Wouldn't cooling a tube to cryogenic temperatures put a lot of undue thermal stress on the glass envelope and delicate internal structures?

Ive had a Cryo GZ34 in my VOX AC30 for 3 years now.
No better, no worse.

Ive never seen any ads claiming better sound or tone, only longetivity. Something alot of the newer tubes coud use.
Ive heard alot of people here complain about Russian or Chinese rectifiers fritzing after only a few hours of use. The cryogenic process benefits are disputable but the fact that cryo tubes are officially GOOD after treatment is not. They've been run thru a wringer and the bad ones are culled wheras those same bad tubes would have ended up pissing one of us off if it just went directly to retail.
On that same note, I bet the garbage cans at the cryo "place" are full.

:scratch2: You never see an ad for a Cryogenically treated NOS Blackplate RCA's. Or any other NOS tubes for that matter.

Besides, Its not that big of a deal monetarily. It adds around $2 per tube from what Ive seen. Thats how much more I paid for the GZ34.
Even Simon Bar Sinister came up with better plots to get your money than that.


..

Wouldn't cooling a tube to cryogenic temperatures put a lot of undue thermal stress on the glass envelope and delicate internal structures?

Not to derail too much. but the the stress you speak of would be more realted to the speed at which it was cooled and heated, not the cooling itself.

Although, the coefficient of thermal expansion might play a role here too though. :scratch2:

Bottom line - beats me???

Mark

Cryogenic treated snake oil, that is... :D

As the physics of vacuum tubes happens in the vacuum space between the electrodes, it shouldn't matter what the electrodes are made of, as long as the electrodes are conductive material. And the crystalline structure inside the electrode material won't have any effect on the space between the electrodes.

The electrode composition doesn't matter?? Since when? :scratch2:

One of the great construction features of the wonderful GE 6550A was a tri-laminate plate material that was made for GE by Texas Instruments. That mattered.

If plate material is irrelevant why are black plate tubes so sought after?

Why are grids sometimes gold plated?

Why did/do companies guard their cathode material formulae like state secrets?

Whether you think cryo treatment is legit or not, to maintain that the material composition of the internal parts doesn't matter is WAY off base.

I'm with Jim on this one, many find different tubes sound different, which leads to
construction and the materials used, so anything there made out of or have done
to them "can" make the tube sound different,....... better who knows?

But as usual this thread is being closed before the slinging starts..:(