If the air we breath and our cars burn is approx. 78% Nitrogen and an automoblie gas engine runs on approx a 15(Air) to 1 (gasoline) mixture then exactly how much Nitrogen is Shell now adding to their gasoline that is all of a sudden magically cleaning our engines?

And why the fuck hasn't all the other nitrogen been doing it all along?

I call total marketing bullshit on this one.

Prevents halitosis too!

Pickles are pretty good.

Prevents halitosis too!
That can't be a bad thing.

Well nitrogen does prevent oxidation under certain circumstances, I believe, but I'm not familiar with Shell sales-pitch.

Hype.

Well nitrogen does prevent oxidation under certain circumstances, I believe, but I'm not familiar with Shell sales-pitch.

Well, nitrogen should prevent oxidation because technically, one needs oxygen for oxidation, not nitrogen. Hydrogen, helium, xenon, heck, even chlorine all should prevent oxidation by displacement of oxygen.

I filled up twice with Shell the last two days on my trip and the little pictures on the pumps show cleaner intake valve stems with the nitrogen crapola. Why in God's name some nitrogen compound removes intake valve deposits is beyond me, but there's probably a molehill of truth in it.

The yahoos down in Marketing are making it a mountain though...:yes:

Apparently the nitrogen is related to the detergent additives. I read somewhere (not an authoritative source) that the nitrogen improves the stability of the detergents so they are more effective for a longer period of time. If this is true, it may not be total BS, but there seems to be a healthy dose of marketing hype added to the reality.

But of the intake charge going past the valves At a 15-1 air to fuel mixture then 78% of 15 parts air is already just under 12 parts or another words of the air fuel mixture racing past our valves 75% is already Nitrogen

So if 75% of the intake mixture is Nitrogen gas how much can they possibly add into the 6.25% that is gasoline to perform this cleaning magic? ( the balance of 18.75% is Oxygen and trace elements in the air) I mean if they changed 25% of the gaoline to Nitrogen they would have to then change the fuel air mixture in the carb or through the injectors to compensate. And that would only increase the Nitrogen by 1,5%

Unless they have figured out how to create some liquid compound that bonds the Nitrogen to some other non gasous compounds to perform this cleaning I'm still totally confused.

But, the pickles....

So long as this fancy-shmancy new gas from Shell will run the car, who really gives a fuck?

So long as this fancy-shmancy new gas from Shell will run the car, who really gives a fuck?

What do you think about pickles?

So long as this fancy-shmancy new gas from Shell will run the car, who really gives a fuck?

True dat. But doesn't it cost more that "regular" gas? (I have no clue)

BTW pickles are awesome.

No it is there regular gas

In the 70's Shell added TCP to their gasoline.

Tom Cat Piss.

So this might be better!

No it is there regular gas

Is shell gas the same price as lets say..cheveron? (I dont drive so I know dick)

(I dont drive so I know dick)

Welcome to the rest of this thread.

Welcome to the rest of this thread.

Im only commenting because the goddamn commercial is on every 5 minutes on every channel! :D

Im only commenting because the goddamn commercial is on every 5 minutes on every channel! :D

No doubt.

Is shell gas the same price as lets say..cheveron? (I dont drive so I know dick)

It was the same price as the no name gas next door at Woodman's foods or whatever it was...

And Mark W., I think JonL is probably on the money. I don't think it has squat to do with the N2 in the air, but some nitrogen containing compound additive in the actual fuel stabilizing some other cleaner.

Still probably Marketing crap directed to a basically ignorant audience.

It's not elemental nitrogen that they're adding, like carbonating a soda. It's some kind of nitrogen compound in the additive package.

TCP=Tricresyl phosphate. It's an anti-wear additive when used in oils. In gasoline I think it may have more to do with anti-knock, but I'm not sure.

To cut the product more and continue to rip us off. BUY YOUR HEATING OIL NOW BEFORE IT GET'S ANAL!

Every car I've ever driven has run poorly on Shell gas. Even ARCO and Costco gas is better.

The zillion miles I have driven have made me swear by Chevron. Never had a bad tankful in almost 40 years.

But of the intake charge going past the valves At a 15-1 air to fuel mixture.... Actually most gas these days has 10% ethanol and that makes the stoichiometric A/F ratio closer to 14:1. I use Shell btw I like the additive package and the amount they put in it. It is a Top Tier gas. Keeps my '02 i6 Trailblazer humming along perfectly.

I still like pickles, and if you get gas, Rolaids.

People that use Shell gas also use Pennzoil, the absolute WORST oil on the planet.

Yeh, and listen to bad music, and eat bad fast food, and maybe beat their kids. Good grief.

I still like pickles, and if you get gas, Rolaids.

What's your favorite type of pickle? Coming from one pickle connoisseur to another.

Yeh, and listen to bad music, and eat bad fast food, and maybe beat their kids. Good grief.

You don't like me much, do ya ?
:banana:

What's your favorite type of pickle? Coming from one pickle connoisseur to another.

Start a pickle thread somewhere- this is all about Shell gasoline, which apparently is linked to tairists and shit.

Start a pickle thread somewhere- this is all about Shell gasoline, which apparently is linked to tairists and shit.

Yes sir....:tears:

People that use Shell gas also use Pennzoil, the absolute WORST oil on the planet. hmm.. used oil analysis over on BITOG web site Ive seen of conventional Shell, Pennzoil and Quaker State all show excellent results.

hmm.. used oil analysis over on BITOG web site Ive seen of conventional Shell, Pennzoil and Quaker State all show excellent results.

Run Pennzoil for 100K and pull a valve cover and get back to me. Ugliest dog shit looking sludge you'll ever see.

See it all the time.

What do you think about pickles?
Not a huge fan, honestly.

But, pickles and Shell, seriously.

Run Pennzoil for 100K and pull a valve cover and get back to me. Ugliest dog shit looking sludge you'll ever see.

See it all the time.

Bad as Quaker State?

Bad as Quaker State?

Much worse.

BTW , Claussen!

Much worse.



Now that would take some doin'!

And why the fuck hasn't all the other nitrogen been doing it all along?

Hell if I know.:smoke:

Come to think of it , I did spin a main bearing running Pennzoil Racing oil (50 wt.)

Conventional oil, Valvoline is best IMO.

But Mobil One is the way to go if you want your engine to last.

My job takes me to many auto repair shops a week, so its not just rhetoric. I see it for myself.

BTW , Claussen!

+1 on the Claussens

Not a huge Valvoline fan , but agree on the Mobil 1. Royal Purple seems to be good for the dyno , but I haven't seen enough long-term evidence to go either way. I like synthetics a lot. It lets me build motors a little tighter without sacrificing friction. :thmbsp:

Royal Purple is also quite good. Their gear oil is superb as well.

All of the synthetics oils are a vast improvement over conventional oils.

Expensive, but if you plan on keeping your vehicle for a long time, it's worth it.

Start a pickle thread somewhere- this is all about Shell gasoline.....
As I recall it, it was you who started the whole pickle tangent, chooch.

Pickles are pretty good.

Why yes.

Yes they are.

I like pickles as well.

As I recall it, it was you who started the whole pickle tangent, chooch.

There had to be something to save this shit, and NEVER use "chooch".

Why yes.

Yes they are.

I like pickles as well.

See, Anderson, you dumb ass?

... chooch.

Poseur.

Wannabe.

Poseur.

Wannabe.

Perzackly.

Someone understands the rules.

I know the guys who make the pickles for Boar's Head and B&B. They've got a little factory here on LI.

I know the guys who make the pickles for Boar's Head and B&B. They've got a little factory here on LI.

Send over a barrel for us to sample.

A lot of wisdom in this thread.

Murray

Royal Purple is also quite good. Their gear oil is superb as well.

All of the synthetics oils are a vast improvement over conventional oils.

Expensive, but if you plan on keeping your vehicle for a long time, it's worth it.

*taking notes*

A lot of wisdom in this thread.



Like zen and shit...

I give this thread another 4 hours before it goes belly up..........

...and pickles...

...and pickles...

:lmao: :thmbsp:

Like zen and shit...

Not saying shit here.

Not saying shit here.

That would be wisdom....

That would be wisdom....

No, that would be kicking low hanging fruit instead of sampling.

What do you think about pickles?

I like pickles,my pragnet wife likes peanut butter and pickle sandwitches on rye bread.:D

No, that would be kicking low hanging fruit instead of sampling.

uhmmmmmmmmmmm.........

That would be wisdom....

The Zen would come in when you closed your eyes and drove straight to the Pizza parlor Magellan. Eating a pickle all the way.

Shut the feck up Gibson. You aren't welcome in this thread.

uhmmmmmmmmmmm.........

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k199/Urizen_2006/Stupid_InternetPolice.png

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k199/Urizen_2006/Stupid_InternetPolice.png

Fine.

I like pickles,my pragnet wife likes peanut butter and pickle sandwitches on rye bread.:D

Im thinking of takin tentozes advice on the pickle thread. Seeing that they are a hot topic these days...

Im thinking of takin tentozes advice on the pickle thread. Seeing that they are a hot topic these days...

Try Clausens, they're refrigerated.

Shut the feck up Gibson. You aren't welcome in this thread.

I am too you. Toze said I could join as long as I kept you occupied. Buy a Garmin yet?

...down a hallway...

It's an inside joke.

Murray

Thread delivers- finally.

Well not to upset the pickle barrel to much but I got news for you all the gas is the same. The additives are mixed into the tank at the truck level. So if today truck A is going to a Shell station first they fill the trailer with Gasoline and dump in X amount of Shells fancy additives. If the second stop for the tanker is an Arco then their additives get added.

If your local station is served by a branded truck then it is still mixed at the truck level it just isn't goign to other brand or no brand stations.

I know this since three of the guys I drive dump trucks drive tankers in the off season.
And I attended Chevron USA'a fuel school many moons ago when I was but a young lad with a big pickle.

Well not to upset the pickle barrel to much but I got news for you all the gas is the same. The additives are mixed into the tank at the truck level. So if today truck A is going to a Shell station first they fill the trailer with Gasoline and dump in X amount of Shells fancy additives. If the second stop for the tanker is an Arco then their additives get added.

If your local station is served by a branded truck then it is still mixed at the truck level it just isn't goign to other brand or no brand stations.

I know this since three of the guys I drive dump trucks drive tankers in the off season.
And I attended Chevron USA'a fuel school many moons ago when I was but a young lad with a big pickle.

So there you go- eat a pickle.

Clausen's are the one to get.

So there you go- eat a pickle.

Then ride your motorsickle.

Buy a Garmin yet?

:twak:

Flogging the dead horse of humour yet again?

:boring:

And it's ROYAL DUTCH SHELL. Evil Nederlanders.

Gee, I love this thread.....some much shit slingin' around.
I can't tell ya much about Shell gas, but oil, I use a helluva lot due to having a fleet.
To the guy who spun a main using Penzoil 50w, unless it was an air cooled engine running in the desert, that is way too heavy. I use the lowest viscosity that gives me normal oil pressure. If you need 50w to get your pressure where it should be, your motor is tired. Heavy oil robs power and doesn't flow fast enough to take the heat out of engine bearings. Not only does oil lubricate, it wicks heat away from engine parts.
The Pennsylvania crude oils are parafin based, so they have the rap about gumming up. I think all that is way behind us, if you change your oil when you should, using any modern SA or SF rated oil, you should be fine.
I use Valvloine in my drivers (PA crude) and either Penzoil or Valvoline in the race cars. Never had a bearing problem in over 35 years of flogging them.

Oh, get the pickles in the gallon jugs, so when you're done you can throw some peppers in the jar and get pickled peppers.

I don't want a pickle, just want to ride my motorcickle.

Still probably Marketing crap directed to a basically ignorant audience.

Of course. Do you think there are any chemists in the audience?

Doesn't matter to me I use BP gas and Mobil 1 oil and Wix filters.
I like pickles preferably kosher dills.

Gee, I love this thread.....some much shit slingin' around.
I can't tell ya much about Shell gas, but oil, I use a helluva lot due to having a fleet.
To the guy who spun a main using Penzoil 50w, unless it was an air cooled engine running in the desert, that is way too heavy. I use the lowest viscosity that gives me normal oil pressure. If you need 50w to get your pressure where it should be, your motor is tired. Heavy oil robs power and doesn't flow fast enough to take the heat out of engine bearings. Not only does oil lubricate, it wicks heat away from engine parts.
The Pennsylvania crude oils are parafin based, so they have the rap about gumming up. I think all that is way behind us, if you change your oil when you should, using any modern SA or SF rated oil, you should be fine.
I use Valvloine in my drivers (PA crude) and either Penzoil or Valvoline in the race cars. Never had a bearing problem in over 35 years of flogging them.

Oh, get the pickles in the gallon jugs, so when you're done you can throw some peppers in the jar and get pickled peppers.

The motor was built loose (looser is faster!) , and 50 wt Pennzoil Racing Oil was a factor in setting up bearing clearances. (oil pressure only hit 55 psi) It was far from a production motor-dyno'd at 598 hp from 452 cubes. It was also changed every 800-1000 miles. No nitrous , no forced induction. I actually never considered the oil as a factor before. I wrote off the main bearing failure as an accepted risk at 7000 RPM. The Quaker State sludge I've seen first hand. I'll stick with Mobil 1 , but I agree that clean oil is the first priority.

The worst news is that only 70 % of the dreck that comes out of the pump is gasoline. The rest is additives like MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) , toulene and benzene. All far more potent carcinogens than the tetraethyl lead they replaced. (just to wander back to the topc-sort of)

I'm still wondering what a but pickle is. :scratch2:

It's like going down a hallway I tell you!

The worst news is that only 70 % of the dreck that comes out of the pump is gasoline. The rest is additives like MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) , toulene and benzene. All far more potent carcinogens than the tetraethyl lead they replaced. (just to wander back to the topc-sort of)


Pardon me, but toluene and benzene are part of the petroleum distillate, along with ethylbenzene and xylene. BTEX as it were. Are they not? And if not, they came from petroleum in the first place and are added back, at most. But these are the four horsemen of toxicity when it comes to gasoline.

Everything you ever wanted to know about gasoline.........

http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=gasoline.htm&url=http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/

The worst news is that only 70 % of the dreck that comes out of the pump is gasoline. The rest is additives like MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) , toulene and benzene. All far more potent carcinogens than the tetraethyl lead they replaced. (just to wander back to the topc-sort of)

MTBE has been banned around here for a few years since it started getting into the groundwater from leaky tanks, and it's apparently pretty hard to strip out. Is it still being used anywhere? We've got up to 10% ethanol instead (oh, joy).

The lead wasn't removed because it was a carcinogen (though it might be, I do not know). It was removed because it was showing up in people's blood, especially children in urban areas. The lead survives the combustion process and gets into the atmosphere, whereas I would think nearly all the toluene and benzene gets combusted and the remainder is cleaned up by the catalytic converter (as long as it hasn't been removed). The evaporative emissions systems in modern cars and the vapor recovery systems at the gas pump should minimize (but not eliminate) the release of these hydrocarbons into the environment.

Ok guys here is some food for thought. I live near Imperial Oil's refinery, the number of brand names coming out the back door never fails to amaze. In short; in today’s society you do not know where anything has been made, or by who.

If the air we breath and our cars burn is approx. 78% Nitrogen and an automoblie gas engine runs on approx a 15(Air) to 1 (gasoline) mixture then exactly how much Nitrogen is Shell now adding to their gasoline that is all of a sudden magically cleaning our engines?

And why the fuck hasn't all the other nitrogen been doing it all along?

I call total marketing bullshit on this one.

It's all about marketing (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228190).:yes:

But, the pickles....
Yeah, that is what I was thinking too.

Ok guys here is some food for thought. I live near Imperial Oil's refinery, the number of brand names coming out the back door never fails to amaze. In short; in today’s society you do not know where anything has been made, or by who.
An old acquaintence of mine used to be a chemist at a refinery. He said that the various brands of tanker truck would pull up to the gas faucet and there would be a little additive faucet for each brand. For one, they give it a shot of their "additive blend" and then fill 'er up with the raw gasoline. The next truck pulls up for a different brand, they give 'er a shot of that companies additive blend and fill 'er up with raw gasoline, and so on.

He actually said it is good to use different brands of gas in your car becasue different brand's additives are good for different kinds of cleaning.

But this thing is hype, hype, hype.

That's ok though. It's all about selling the sizzle, not the steak.

Then ride your motorsickle.
But I don't wanna die!

I just wanna ride my motorcy.


Cle.

I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride my motorcycle.

The thing about pickles is, it's the only thing you can do with cucumbers. :D For commercial, I like Vlasic, but prefer homemade, when they're available. :yes:

What do you think about pickles?

What pickles?I know only POLSKI & OGORSKI..............

The motor was built loose (looser is faster!) ,

That is one school of thought. The object is to reduce friction, therefore freeing up power that is already there. (The engineering term is parasitic drag)
Working in an engine shop for 30 some years, many customers request bearing clearances that seem way to much for the application. They would request the crank be ground small, giving more oil clearance. When it had a problem, next time they wanted even more. I believe they were going in the wrong direction.
What works for me is to keep bearings tight, to reduce the hammering effect reciprocating parts endure. I wont put an engine together with much more than .001 bearing clearance for inch of crank diamater. (ex: small journal 327 Chevy, 2.00 rod journal, .002 oil clearance). I realize many builders don't agree, I wont argue what works for them.
As far as piston clearance goes, you may be right, as long as the piston remains stable enough in the bore for proper ring seal. Usually looser is better here, but ring life is cut way short.
I have been very lucky to have some great drivers as customers, who keep up with maintenance and set-ups, at the local NASCAR 3/8 mile oval, all V8 class track records have been set with my engines. Also many drag track championships and road racing track records. The crankshaft grinder in our shop uses about .001 rod clearance in his 454 small block stroker engine, he typically runs about 2000 passes between freshen ups, has 3 consecutive track championships to his credit at one of the most competitive tracks in the nation.
I don't claim any credit to any of the wins, just a little pride knowing they can count on engines to last all year. Many of my customers are motor guys who do the R&D on what makes power, I just machine and assemble.
Oh, yeah, just my opinions, and from what I can tell everyone has a different one.

I like Vlasic dunked in possum fat if you ask me, de-li-scious, yumy yummy! As for the gas, it may be nitrogen laced!

I like pickles,my pragnet wife likes peanut butter and pickle sandwitches on rye bread.:D

But nothing beats a glass of cold milk with a hanfull of salted peanuts!
(With some nitrogen, of course...)

bread & butter are my favs

With the money I've saved by NOT buying Shell (with or without additives) and instead buying Supermarket Petrol (Gasoline) - occasionally I buy pickles instead - I like pickles.

As i recall, virtually all gas relabeled for different retailers comes from the same refiners, it is just the additive pack each chooses for their marketed brand. As for the Nitro hype... yawn.



Conventional oil, Valvoline is best IMO.

The German Castrol is excellent!


But Mobil One is the way to go if you want your engine to last.

Not anymore imho. They cut down on ZDDP and other anti-wear additives about 3 years ago. And yes, i have a BITOG membership and have done multiple fluid lab tests of one of my track cars. Maybe M1 changed back to their good mix??? Of course one could use good oil and then ad in their own 'pack' of anti-wear agents.

i like RedLine 30 for the race car, yet just let Ford do their stock change for the F250 Superduty at the dealership.

Of course. Do you think there are any chemists in the audience?

Uh, me and a few others here :D

i can't believe that this thread made it this far..lmao

Avoid FRAM oil filters too. Ever seen the inside of one of those. Looks like a elementary school project some kid threw together.

I have had good luck with Sunoco gas. Quaker State/Valvoline oil and WIX filters. Also know as NAPA Gold if you can't find WIX labeled ones. There the same.

But Mobil 1 and Royal Purple are the way to go for synthetic. I also heard good things from Amsoil. But I'm to cheap and just use conventional.

I also heard good things from Amsoil.

i think because they use a good 'pack' in their oil. Never used their engine oil, though will give the nod to their Severe Gear 75-90 in my track tintop when i used it. it had a really finiky tranny, others swore by Redline for the car.

i can't believe that this thread made it this far..lmao

If you look back a bit, I predicted it's death at 4 pages or something....... :smoke:

Hyperion: Love that quote, that is one of my favorite movies........

Years ago when my father had his auto parts store and machine shop, it was easy to pick out the engines that had used Shell gas or a PA sourced oils such as Pennzoil and Quaker State, especially Quaker State. Most of them were ruined fom buildups. The cleanest seemed mostly to use Castrol and Valvoline or Sunoco gas. From the first time I saw this, I've stayed with Sunoco and Castrol oil.

This was decades ago so things may have changed but as I've only lost 1 engine in my life with many engines lasting well into the 300,000 range I'm too old and comfortable to change.

There seems to be some disagreement as to mixing gasolines. Engineers have written that when mixing, sometime the different additives when blended change their charactor and become ineffective as to the purpose of being included. I have almost never mixed gas so almost no personal experience. When I have, it is uslly b/c I'be been on a long trip and could not find a Sunoco station so let the tank run really low and then used another brand. Never Shell nor the Canadian Petro-Canada brand.

I just read a pretty good article about gasolines. It said that they were basically pretty much the same. Only difference is the quart of whatever additive is added to that 80,000 gallon tanker truck.

I just read a pretty good article about gasolines. It said that they were basically pretty much the same. Only difference is the quart of whatever additive is added to that 80,000 gallon tanker truck.
That is exactly what my chemist friend told me a while back. I articulated it in post 94 (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2803775&postcount=94).

We're getting ready to start packaging our coffee with nitrogen vs. the old vacuum pack. If it keeps the coffee fresher longer, maybe it will do the same for your engine?:dunno:

Dave

Dave, i think you are referring to Illy coffee bean cans. Yes, they are sealed in nitro. Normal air we breathe has a lot of Nitro actually, but it is the HUMIDITY that is the 'killer'. So 'dry air' (normal or that with higher nitro content) works. As for gas, the tanks ARE NOT totally sealed. Gas storage has to allow for expansion and contraction due to temperature.

As a side note, tried Illy, LaVazza and others. i prefe Cafe Do Ponto. Sadly, you can not get whole beans in USA :( though the vac pack grounded is still better than Ially and LaVazza imho. If ANYONE is going to Brazil i WILL PAY handsomely for kilo bags of fresh Cafe DO Ponto Traditional beans.

Dave, i think you are referring to Illy coffee bean cans. Yes, they are sealed in nitro. Normal air we breathe has a lot of Nitro actually, but it is the HUMIDITY that is the 'killer'. So 'dry air' (normal or that with higher nitro content) works. As for gas, the tanks ARE NOT totally sealed. Gas storage has to allow for expansion and contraction due to temperature.

As a side note, tried Illy, LaVazza and others. i prefe Cafe Do Ponto. Sadly, you can not get whole beans in USA :( though the vac pack grounded is still better than Ially and LaVazza imho. If ANYONE is going to Brazil i WILL PAY handsomely for kilo bags of fresh Cafe DO Ponto Traditional beans.

Actually it is the oxygen that kills coffee bean flavor not water. The oxygen reacts with the flovor compounds and causes off flavors. As soon as the beans are roasted, this process starts occurring. That is why vacuum pack bags are very useful in this.....

As stated - all gas tests the same. Many times they actually come from the same refinery.

Dave, i think you are referring to Illy coffee bean cans. Yes, they are sealed in nitro. Normal air we breathe has a lot of Nitro actually, but it is the HUMIDITY that is the 'killer'. So 'dry air' (normal or that with higher nitro content) works. As for gas, the tanks ARE NOT totally sealed. Gas storage has to allow for expansion and contraction due to temperature.

As a side note, tried Illy, LaVazza and others. i prefe Cafe Do Ponto. Sadly, you can not get whole beans in USA :( though the vac pack grounded is still better than Ially and LaVazza imho. If ANYONE is going to Brazil i WILL PAY handsomely for kilo bags of fresh Cafe DO Ponto Traditional beans.

Nope. I am referring to Hills Brothers, Chock Full o' Nuts, MJB, Chase & Sanborn, and almost anything else that has the Massimo Zanetti Beverage Group logo on it. If you don't hear it "suck" air in when you open it---it's nitro packed.

I understand the the difference in sealed vs. non-sealed, and the effects of humdity on coffee and gasoline.:yes:

Dave

Actually it is the oxygen that kills coffee bean flavor not water. The oxygen reacts with the flovor compounds and causes off flavors. As soon as the beans are roasted, this process starts occurring. That is why vacuum pack bags are very useful in this.....

As stated - all gas tests the same. Many times they actually come from the same refinery.

But, coffee, especially ground coffee deteriorates rapidly when exposed to ambient air. It is a function of both oxygen and moisture. Whether you have vacuum packed, or nitro packed, I suggest you keep it refridgerated once you've broken the seal. It will last longer. (I keep mine in the freezer.)

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but coffee is my business. So I just thought I would interject a little friendly advice.

Dave

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but coffee is my business.

Can you get Cafe Do Ponto kilo bags Traditional BEANS??????????

Pleeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lemme know what a case costs.

Can you get Cafe Do Ponto kilo bags Traditional BEANS??????????

Pleeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lemme know what a case costs.

No, I can't. Sorry.

No, I can't. Sorry.

:tears: :tears: :tears: