Inspired my a discussion on the Vintage Forum that questioned what exactly caused the differences Kamakiri observed when switching copper wire for silver wire. I decided to carry that topic over here in case anyone was interested. The points raised were that the differences observed probably had more to do with either the wire age, solder joint or phaze orientation than the properties of the materials themselves; copper vs silver. While I acknowledged the real possibilites of the examples offered I stated that in my situation that was not the case. Where I had replaced the "Audiophile-grade" Silverline Audio (copper) cables with DIY 24awg solid-silver / teflon-encased wire. While the differences were not dramatic, in my Hi-Rez system they were both discernable and enjoyable, and a nice bargain to boot.

Earlier this evening my local "Audiophile" buddy called to shoot the shit and we got into a heated discussion on a couple of topics that are relevant to this discussion. 1>. Why exactly am I interested in replacing my Silverline Sonatinas (he also owns them)? 2>. Have I REALLY explored the potential of their performance with my existing cables? He is passionate about the Sonatinas and questions my decision to replace them, which I'm only just considering. He also has much more experience with various cables in his system and currently enjoys umbilicals that offer both greater performance and a higher price tag. I have sampled almost all of his cables IMS but not with the same scurtiny. My arguement is that while his cables are better (reconizing different signatures), I question the value they provide given their cost.

My position is that cables matter and could make or break a system, but that cables will not fix a bad system when attention has not been paid to the core components. Fine-tuning will only embellish what has proceeded that effort and not re-invent. I suppose I've raised plenty of "issues" but one I would like to discuss is whether a sonic signature is discernable between a silver vs copper wire or connector. TIA

MikE

Originally posted by MikE
MikE[/COLOR]

Absolutely. That has been my experience as well. When I had a preamp I went from trying to adjust the sound with an IC here and a different IC there, to using the same ICs through out in the pursuit of coherence and transparency.

I suppose I've raised plenty of "issues" but one I would like to discuss is whether a sonic signature is discernable between a silver vs copper wire or connector. TIA

I've had silver for a while now, but am having my AZ Matrix upgraded to MK II (at the factory), and will have a pair of Music Metre Canto ICs flying in next week. I'll be exploring copper alternatives in a couple of weeks.

Mike,
my only experience has been some Homegrown Audio Silver Lace IC's--braided like Kimber connects that I got from the Audio Asylum classifieds. They were more detailed than the Audioquest IC's (copper) they replaced, and that detail was enjoyable/interesting for a while but eventually proved TOO detailed.
I was using the silver between the CD and preamp so I'm not sure digital needed detail as much as it needed musicality and warmth. Maybe I'll get them out and try again.

Of course, ideally one would compared identical cable other than silver/copper difference.
TY

I have used some what I think was Kimber (black/white teflon over stranded silver plated copper, 6 or 8 strands)and Cardas medium grade, cheap to medium cheap copper and who knows what base metal plugs and the OFC copper Vamp plugs and cryoed magnet wire and in my opinion the silver does seem to bring out a higher resolution. The high grade copper was on the other hand completely neautral while the cheaper ones were just muffling.
Personally I go for the ones that you can't hear. The Chimera Labs I built were put into system today and there was a slight but tangible difference in that there was the feeling of nothing there. Especially when you are playing with subtly but different tubes I feel the null effect is better as it can reveal the tube rolling better.
Of course after that if you want to brighten it up a bit as a taste choice go for it. Everyone for his own, but for just delivering the signal without anything changed I prefere copper.

MikE,

I do have a spare set of interconnects that I braided with the silver wire. Would you like to try them?

Hey Kam I'd love to try em!!:D :D


Mike

Thatch Ear,
how many conductors in each cable??? I saw the pre-made speaker cable on the Chimera site--they recommend 14 strands as their minimum don't they??
Also, looked up cable on the Homegrown site--they have 16 conductors in their speaker cable.

Yes, I would be interested. What lenght are they, I need at least one (1) metre, preferrably 1.5m to run from my dac to the amp. My system is a good canditate for cable reviews because I only have one (1) ANALOG cable to concern myself with. I prefer silver but three months ago I returned all of the long-term cable loaners and went back to my Silverline Audio interconnect which interestingly uses copper conductors.

Unfortunately, my system is in flux with the massive power supply for my dac & jitter filter still in service. I should receive it back next week but I'd like to re-accustom myself to the sound before tackling another cable trial. I realize I have those pucks coming my way, I'm guessing they (pucks/power supply) may arrive simultaneously. If thats the case I've review the pucks with my current configuaration of backup power supplies while the M.P.S. is re-burnt in. I'm not clear which parts Dusty replaced or to what extent that may affect the performance of the unit. As far as I know he may have further tweaked it or used superior parts. I'll have to shoot him an Email on the specifics. I'll let you know when I'm comfortable with the cable trial. Thanks for asking.

BTW - You mentioned in the puck thread that if anyone had components / devices they would be willing to use as "test units", like the pucks, they should come forward. I've got a couple of speaker cables I'm not using that I would be interested in hearing feedback on from the regulars. I would be especially interested in letting "cable skeptics" give a listen due to the degree of differences I detect from those two samples. One are my very first venture in after-market cables; Monster Cable Powerline 2 purchased in the mid-late 80's. The other are my second pair of Silverline Audio cables that came off the top-posts of my Silverline Sonatinas (replaced by the DIY 24awg solid-silver). I realize the vast difference in age, cost and (assume, not knowing) technology in the two. My motive for the trials would not, so much, be to detect the DEGREE of difference between them but the fact there were'nt ANY differences noted whatsoever. If you can't hear an improvement with these perhaps you're deaf or your system has the resolving power of an AM radio. I'm only kidding but you get my drift.

MikE

:eek: NERD ALERT!!! :eek: :p:

:boxing: :yippy: :yippy: :yippy: MikE

I'm too cool to be a nerd ;) :D Nerds are toobies who wear bandaids on their boobies ;)

Well I know I am no audiophewl and that my system is not an audiophewl system so my opinion will not be valued or respected ;)

(As I write this I am torture testing my cleaned, once again, pre and I am playing Twisted Sister - We're not gonna take it, at obscenely loud volume, and I wonder why I get no respect ;) Where's my Jazz!! :dammit: )

I am the Rodney Dangerfield of audio!!

But this weekend I plan on buying some fancy shmancy nancyboy cables. As I said cuz they look kewl ;) So I will let you know soon if "I" discover any sonic improvements by upgrading my lowly cables.

There's a "nerdishness" to audio. But I don't care, nor is that how I define myself. People that don't REALLY know me see me as "the runner with the killer stereo". You are right though, Twisted Sister won't get you invites to many audiophile gatherings. Yes, we do listen to Jazz. I suppose I was a Jazz fan before I became an audio fan. Kinda odd for a high school kid. Look forward to your thoughts on the "fancy cables".

MikE

THOR,
wondered how the following cable struck you???? It's reasonably priced at $1 foot I think (about what Radio Shack Mega-cable costs) but I thought the blue color might appeal to you.

I do like those, I am basically looking for nice looking cables to impress my drunken friends ;) I have them fooled into thinking I am some sort of audiophile :D Dumbasses! :p:

THOR, KnuKonceptz has a website and they sell on eBay.
BTW, they call their kable "Karma Kable" on eBay: "From KnuKonceptz.com New Twisted Karma Kable 12 Gauge Speaker Kable"

Another option is just to buy the fancy covering that DIY speaker cable guys use. The following link pictures FINISHED cable, but the black shiny, snakeskin looking covering can be purchased seperately I think.

http://www.signalcable.com/speaker_cables.html

Your ever humble servant,
Tonto

MikE,

My cables are exactly three feet long, so they may work out for your test....I'll send them along. If you'd like to set up some test of your cables, that would be fantastic! I could handle the process or you could post a sign-up sheet if you wish.

I'll put my "Kama Cables" ( :) ) in the mail tomorrow.

Do they have speaker cables that light up and pulse to the music? Cuz I could really use some of those :D

THOR,
I had heard that YOU lit up and pulsed to the music! Cables doing so would be redundant.:)

Originally posted by THOR
Do they have speaker cables that light up and pulse to the music? Cuz I could really use some of those :D

Wrap some Christmas lights around them :lmao:

Tonto,
Sorry that I wasn't more clear. I was refering to interconnects not speaker cables. I have 16 strand cables I made from celonese insulated 24 AWG copper telephone wire made by Western Electric over 50 years ago. They are very good but not in use as I haven't upgraded the BPs on my 25 year old Shahinians and am using ancient Monster zip.
I have never even seen a pair of Dennis' cables and after making the interconnects myself with only 4 strands of the 25.5 AWG magnet wire I would pay him to do the 14 strand. At least with the celonese there were colors on insulation to help you keep track of the braiding. The magnet wire has only the the thin shellac type (know idea what it really is, but tough and thin) covering on it and is much harder to work with. The wires are not in teflon as I uderstand the skin effect is better without them. The effect also makes shielding not necessary.
Just as a point of interest to Thor as he seems to be following this I doubt that a Litz of 14 or 16 strands of thin wire would make a difference and could be possibly detrimental. This type cable is for low power applications and sending high amounts of power through them might make the Litz react in a way not good for the signal. We are looking at a interwoven braid of the pos and neg strands that work in a way to negate outside interference and not add coloration for amps operating at around 10 watts or less with efficient speakers.
The high powered SS and inefficient speakers most commonly used pump so much power through the cables that the effect could be completely different. Think of a light bulb filiment.
This is all speculation and I could be way of base but thin wire does I believe have more resistance than thick wire does. Tubes like high impedence and SS doesn't. I have never even looked into what the cable manufacturers are using for high end, high powered amps but I doubt it is 16 strands of thin wire.
Over the years I have seen many different types and configurations of cables in use at Chimera and have heard most of them. Dennis has been expirementing with cables since long before I met him 8 or 9 years ago.
The cables he makes now are the end product of a long process and he sells them with a money back if you don't like them promise and has never had any returned. He told me that the largest problem he had with new customers was getting them to go with unshielded cables, and many didn't believe him. None that tried them have returned them.

Received your cables Friday, then spent the weekend with TIC in Cincinatti / Kentucky at the "CainFest". Just got back and put your cables in. They barely fit. Couple of questions, are they directional? I didn't see any indications of such. Are they new or have you used them a bit? If so, how many hours? I'm listening to them now, and was comparing my system vs those I heard over the last two days. Whether it was the cables or something else, I did notice something I didn't like spacially and moved the speakers ever so slightly. I also re-positioned the ASE TubeTraps to directly behind the rear-ported Sonatinas. This helped free images from the enclosures, widing the sound field. Honestly, I don't think this had anything to do with your cables, it was more likely something I've been listening to for awhile and only became unhappy after listening to other components.

MikE

Not directional that I know of.......I'm not even sure how they would be honestly :dunno:

They are a tight fit, I got the ends from Dayton Audio. I basically just wound em and shipped em, they have never seen signal before they reached you.

That's impressive because I felt they didn't exhibit ANY harshness at all, untypical of silver wire, especially NEW silver wire. At first listen they didn't strike me as that different from the Silverline copper interconnects but I'm still recovering from the "CainFest" on Saturday. I'll listen further and report back. I'm pumping a signal thru them 24/7.

MikE

I see from the pic that one of the spring thingys must have shaken loose in shipment.

Thank God it's only a "prototype" :D

I've been listening to a pair of Music Metre Canto ICs (copper) for the past few days, in place of my reference Zu Varial ICs (silver).

At this point I'd have to say I enjoy both cables to a great degree, but there are some real trade-offs.

With copper I am seeing increased warmth from the mids on up as well as better bass extension. There is still good detail but with a small loss of resolution in the mids and high. These are also a bit more forgiving of mediocre recording. Midband tonality is warmer, if not a bit fuzzier or textured. Nice but different.

Silver is tight and fast. The leading edge of notes (attack) come through much more distinctly, as does its decay. Bass is tighter, and midrange tonality is sweet and clear with a greater sense of presence.

You pretty much nail my experience with those cable types. Certainly exceptions can (and have) be found, but most of the qualities you mention are not unique. I'm curious if you've made such auditions BEFORE the SET amp arrived on the scene. Do you feel the SET amp was more sensitive to conductor material, geometry or termination? I've got plenty of questions for you put I want you to settle in with the Fi amp and come to your own conclusions before I address the matter. Very curious of your opinions on the 45s vs the 2a3s. I'm still listening to the 2a3s (surprise) but will switch back to the 45s in a few days.

MikE

Originally posted by MikE
I'm curious if you've made such auditions BEFORE the SET amp arrived on the scene. Do you feel the SET amp was more sensitive to conductor material, geometry or termination? .

MikE

I saw clear-cut changes in both systems, but I'd hesitate to say more as the old setup included a seperate pre.

I've got plenty of questions for you put I want you to settle in with the Fi amp and come to your own conclusions before I address the matter. Very curious of your opinions on the 45s vs the 2a3s. I'm still listening to the 2a3s (surprise) but will switch back to the 45s in a few days

There are about 100 hr. on the amp and 150 on the Galantes. By the end of the month I'll have finished with the 45s and have rotated the Sovtek and RCA Blackplate 2A3s as well.

Mike and Tim,
The ICs are twisted pairs, not Litz. I am interested in what the results would be compared to a Litz. Does anyone have silver Litz ICs? I have copper so it would be hard to do a comparision.

An intersting post on the merits of the 2 most popular metals used for cabling.

Just curious for those who have heard clear cut differences, you didn't happen to pull any measurements, did you? I'd be interested in seeing where the freq responses differed and if the results were repeatable. Does anyone have any equipment to measure these things?

For anyone interested in the knukonceptz wire, it is very solidly built wire and probably one of the best values on the market. It does everything good wire is supposed to do (conduct and not alter the sound) at a fair price. If you place an order, let Bill know that I sent you.

I doubt there are test intruments made to deal with the minute amount of difference in a short run of copper vs silver. I find silver a bit bright with copper more neautral. But seriously it would have to be in my system using my own gear and even then I might not know in the short term. Since I have very little silver wire in my gear it is kind of hard to make judgements. I do have a source switch and left one set of silver signal in and replaced the other with 50 year old copper telephone wire and it has been such a long time since I have looked that I can't remember which is which and can't tell by listening either.
BPs, and cabling and RCAs are OFC, just a bit of silver left in the amp and evidently not enough to make an audible difference.

Rolling tubes has a much more profound effect than I get from switching sources. I sure as hell can tell the difference between using the ICs made with 100% OFC than the ones that (name brand stuff you can buy anywhere) that have gold plated brass.

Getting rid of the cheap banana plugs made a big difference too, even if I had to build longer cables to be able to lose them.

Don't know a thing about knukonceptz. Do they have test data? I think Monster does and it doesn't make their cables sound better.

Along with the two pure choices, there's also silver-plated copper. Tributaries uses it in their Silver series, like SCA200. I use it in my system, and I can hear a clear difference between the silver plated and just copper. I've never heard pure silver, though, so can't comment on that.

The silver plate definitely has more top-end energy, and detail. Soundstage seems to vary so much between copper cables that I can't say that the silver plating is making a difference. Copper cables I've compared with are Monster's M1000i, Interlink 400, THX1000, and Kimber's Hero. I've never tried any of the kilobuck/ft cables, because they exceed my "wretched excess" limit.

Oh, I don't know about that. Test instruments can pick up levels of detail that our ears will never under any circumstances be able to pick up. If there are clear differences, we are talking some fairly distinct differences in response.

Knukonceptz makes good quality wire with nicely soldered, high quality terminals. I don't believe they have any models with built in EQ (i.e. MIT) to change the frequency response, or at least I hope they don't.

Test gear is good for setting up directions and helping to steer you. My dad is an EE and he knew PP was better than SE because it had more power and less distortion. It was proven with the test gear. SS had less total HD than tubes so it had to be better because the test gear proved it.
There are always way to make numbers work to your advantage, that is how Monster proves their cables are the best made. Just go to Best Buy and ask any of the teenagers working the floor.

My opinion is that test gear can be extremly usefull tools, but no matter how precise or detailed they analyze things it doesn't always work out. Things that should not sound better can and vice versa, often at odds with what the instruments show. I guess there is a real art in interpretating test results. I sure can't.

No interpretation is necessary in this case. I'm not making any claim about different conductors sounding different, just that clear differences in sound will absolutely show up on test gear...if it's really there and not somewhere upstairs...

I think most, if not all of us, will agree that measurements on monster cables site are rendered moot by them making wire made for styles of music among many other marketing gimmicks... :)

I think marketing is where most of audio research is done.

I know it is possible the measure in some fashion anything that is audible to the human ear. The fact that music is a thing that is so deeply subjective leads me to believe that most objective testing is really nothing more than a form of Quality Control. If you know subjectivly what is bad from listening when you are looking at an instrument that is measuring what you are hearing it tells you what to avoid. If you are listening to something that is subjectivly pleasing and are measuring it when you see that measurment later it shouldn't be subjectivly bad, but I bet it still could be.

Objectivity has its place in audio, but audio reproduction isn't just engineering. You can tell when engineering is the criteria used because it sounds sterile. Not knocking EEs, they can do things I can't, but the best audio designers I know are audiophiles that can engineer.

See, I feel that marketing has no place in audio. I know in business, it has to exist, but I don't want to be convinced of something. I want to hear it and be able to repeat what i am hearing before I spend a dime on fancy wires. If I can't hear the difference each and every time with consistency, I'm too cheap to buy it literally and figuratively. Where most of us will fail with near certainty is by verifying what we hear. I'm all for spending money on things that make you happy, but I cringe when i hear subjective descriptions about the transparency of one type of wire over another when I know that the odds of actually being able to clearly identify the "clear" differences is beyond any of our abilities.

I am torn on the subject, in all honesty. I don't want to ever end the quest for better sound, yet I can't make myself give much if any credibility to subjective reviews. When Roger Russell tells me that McIntosh uses run of the mill wire because it makes no audible difference, the level of respect for McIntosh shoots through the roof in my book. High end audio wihtout high-end BS.

When McIntosh first started getting their transformer wound I believe that wire was made primarily by pulling and anealing and pulling copper cast from crucibles. What is so nicely termed as continous cast today. That is why I like the old telephone wire made by WE over modern day CAT-5 (I heard it was made with a method simular to plating, transfer of molecules through electrolites with electricity. I have no idea if that is true or not)for making cables, and the dialetic properties (you can measure that) create enough capasitance (and you can measure that) that there is enough of a field that you don't need any shielding when you make a nice Litz.
Do the same thing with magnet wire and I believe that shielding is still not a problem but the capacitance (measured) is lower than a bunch of the cables made with a solid core with strands wrapped around, I am sure you know the configuation.
The old celonese wire has enough capasitance to (never tried because I believe the guy that told me) to cause real damage to high wattage SS gear. Damping maybe? Use the same amount of strands of the same guage in the same braid with the magnet wire, no worries for SS.
By the way I have been using the WE wire for a long time and have had a pair of ICs made with 4 lengths of CCOFC in a Litz with OFC Vampire plugs and there is a major difference in how much the signal is not muddied up with these compared to the higher quality low tier products that are mass marketed. How much of it is the wire I just don't know, but I strongly believe a couple of microns of gold over brass is not even as good as the aluminum screws used for binding posts in a lot of vintage tube gear.
Doing an upgrade requires spendind enough money to at least insure that you are getting tooled copper under the metal of choice used to avoid oxidation.

Since a fair number of systems that I have auditioned were put together with componants where the McIntosh was the lowest priced componant other than the CD transport and I found that often there was a lifeless, sterile quality to the whole package, while knowing full well that if I asked for paperwork on the gear the numbers would have reflected much lower THD, possibly a greater range in octaves and a few other tid bits that on paper are quite impressive, I now rely on my ears and then if I like it I ask for brochures just to help me remember the products.

Jabbering about cables is like arguing burn in. I believe in burn in. I believe that cryo can shorten burn in, but after a while non cryoed wire will sound just the same if the cold bath is the only difference.

I dropped a pretty good chunk of change to buy a spool of CCOFC magnet wire so I can make my own cables. After all I have been living with a pair for a few years now and to me they neither add nor detract. I like that. If I want to add crispness or speed it is best done with tubes and drivers because you know they are going to have a signature.
I have some really old Monster zip cord. Some of the earliest. I use it to hook up a pair of isobaric subs to a SS grunt JBL pro gear amp. I also have gold plated brass BP on the subs because below a certain point it is much more important to have the subs keep pace with Heil AMTs to keep things in phase or time allignment than anything else.The gear driving the subs does not merit the cost of upgrading them either. Just adding a bit of bottom end.
TLs have DIY Litz made from WE wire for cables, interior wiring the CCOFC magnet. Vampire OFC BPs, because the mids need to be clean, the highs no distortion, phasing done with physical placement. I like the huge kilovolt pio caps for high passes. Heils don't need fast crisp caps.
I think old Marantz recievers make exellent preamps in SS rigs but don't like the power amp sections. I want a great system without spending any money. or at least not a big chunk at one time. I fiddle, move stuff in and out, use my 300B SET as the fronts when watching movies and have a pair of Obelisks laying on top of the cheap assed baker's rack on wheels that the gear and TV sit on.
Just getting back into vinyl. Some of it is great. I want to get a Scott Nixon tube DAC but that is in the future. I saw a bunch of different record clamps at audio shows and there is a subtle difference in not having that weight in the center keeping the record from vibrating just enough for the cartridge to pick up, so last weekend I made one out of 2 hockey pucks, one of my favorite audio do all kinds of things for $1 each kind of item.
I believe in isolation and those ball bearing in cups things work better than anything else I have tried. I don't own any yet because I just haven't spent the time to figure out how to make them really cheap.

I understand the not wanting to trust subjective reports on items that can set you back a big chunk of change. Objectivly you have to realise that you won't have the same subjective experience that the other guy did even if your gear is the same, simply because your space will be different. Going completly on objective test results though can get you something that is not your subjective cup of tea. To really know what is going to work or not work in your system requires that you get it inyour system and be objective about whether or not it brings the level of your subjective experiance to a level that makes the investment worth while.

Why not run your A and B speaker feeds using different wires to the same speaker. Instead of changing speakers, the A/B switch will swap wires.

Put yer silver, platinum, radioactive clay or whatever wires on one side and your copper on the other. Note which is which but tell no one. Now, have a buddy run the A/B switch while you decide which position sounds better, then have them tell you if it's A or B.

Then hurry back and let us know!

-Ed

The radio active clay glows when in use, so unless you are willing to gouge out one eye and put a patch over the other for a blind testing, or gouge out both eyes for a double blind, it wouldn't work.

Question:
What is that wires transport?
Answer:
Electrons,protons and neutrons (electric energy) mV.

So,i think silver plated copper are the best for my system in therms of sound - silver is a better conductor than copper so, in pratical therms ,electric energy runs faster and more clean to the speakers - and in therms of costs because copper is a good conductor and not expensive.
I use Profigold Air Bass-Flex for the speakers and i'm happy. :smoke: It's a cable with one rigid copper conductor mixed with silver plated multi-condutors for each channel. :naughty:
...And igree with Thatch that are some things that in theory works but doesn't mean that in the "Praxis World" you get good results. :smoke:

Have fun.Ciao.

I've got audioquest Diamondback interconnects for the cd & pre-out, and Ixos Coral for the tt. I don't notice any difference between them and the monster cable IC's they replaced (and yes, they're running in the right direction). I do think they look nice. :)

So, you guys have any links, for a DYS type project for interconnects? I'm a electric motor winder, and have access to all sizes and types of magnet wire and cable.

I just made some speaker wires using 2- 17awg mag wire for each conductor. I twisted each conductor on a drill to get a tight twist. Then ran the two through heat shrink clear sleeving. Looks pretty fancy, but haven't tryed them yet. I'll use them on my LF amp of my bi-amp system.

Nice forum BTW

Since you are a winder you should know this; Does tightly twiting a pair cause inductance and if so is it in our hearing range?
I was at an audio club meeting and someone had some Goertz ribbon cables and they were too long and ended up wound up under the speakers. Slowly everyone left the room. I changed the cables to some 16 strand WE tele wire Litz and slowly eberyone came back. Same CD, CDP, amp and speakers. The Goertz coiled up like that put a real hard edge to the upper mids and listening fatigue happened fairly quickly. I am not sure if it was just the ribbons or if they were coiled up.

Here is a link to a thread in DIY where I made some ICs using CCOFC magnet wire and OFC Vampire plugs. And using them between the source and my SET (OFC plugs and good signal wire) you can easily tell the difference betwwen them and Monster (I actually have a bunch of the RS Fusion which is on parr with Monster) mainly I believe because of the base metal being brass in the plugs. The super thin coating of gold is by far the best conductor there but a couple of microns isn't enough.

http://204.10.140.18/forums/showthread.php?t=36616

I bought this magnet wire from Jack Elliano, who was selling it for someone else. It looks exactly like the Vampire magnet wire Dennis Boyle of Chimera Labs has, including the spool but all I know for sure is that Jack told me it was continous cast oxygen free. Boyle cryo treats his, or I should say he has it done for him, so there is almost no burn in time but I am sure what I have isn't or it would have cost more than $20/lb.

Twisting reduces inductance,or so I thought. Just keep them away from any other conductor or magnetic source. And no, I don't believe it's audible.

I had my purchasing agent look for oxygen free mag wire today. He’s having a hard time finding any. Essex doesn’t stock it. Belden states they don’t make it. If I find any, I’ll post the source.

Interesting build of the patch cords. I might try it with some standard VFD duty anti-spike mag wire. It’s good for more than 100 volts turn to turn.

I’m just experimenting with cables right now. I’m not convinced there’s an audible difference.

If your gear has the industry standard of gold plated brass for plugs and BPs there often isn't an audible difference.

When I made my own speaker cables there was an easy to hear difference, but that could have been the fact that I was able to get rid of the cheap banana plugs.

There might not be a whole lot of difference in wire, but there definatly is in termination both on the wire and the chassis.

Hey Thatch
do you think that banana plugs are important in an audio system ?
It's better to use a good banana plug or no banana plugs at all ?

Ciao.

None at all if you can. I had banana plugs because my home-made cables were a bit short and my rack is on wheels. When I want to change gear, mess with the cables or what have you I just roll it away from the wall and walk behind it.
I made some longer cables using the same WE telephone solid copper 50 year old 25 guage wire in Litz braids (longer length, less strands) and got rid of the banana plugs and the difference was immediate and very appearant. I wish I had done it sooner.

There are some solder on plated copper terminations that aren't really banana plugs but will fit into binding posts made for bananas. I haven't tried them myself but if I have to buy some I will hunt them down and get those. Sorry. I can't remember who makes them. They look like a piece of tubing with the bottom cut out. I think you crimp them on, solder them and before putting them in the biding posts spread them open just a bit so you have to push them in. Lots of contact, a base metal that has good conductivity.
When I make my own ICs I actually grind the gold off so I can solder copper to copper. That keeps the gold doing the job it is there for, keeping oxidation off the termination. With brass the gold is the better conductor and most of the signal probably passes through it. With something the size of a banana plug that is not a good thing.

Thanks,
that's what i thought.
In audio,simple are better in terms of audio signal.

Have fun,ciao.

The Eichmann bayonet (banana) connectors are copper (or silver). I just use bare wire ends into copper binding posts myself but agree with Thatch, if you want to use connectors of some kind, copper (or solid silver if using silver wire) seems the best way - not brass.

Brass is definitely not the conductor of choice. Relative conductivity is very poor. If fine silver is the best at 104, OF copper is 101, Gold is 75, Leaded commercial bronze is 42 and yellow brass is 27. ( These numbers are from the "Guide to Engineered Materials: Property Comparisons"). I think that gold was used for cosmetics and its resistance to oxidation. Curiously however silver oxide is just as good a conductor as silver. Copper oxide is not. Real IC fanatics hardwire everything which is not that convenient (and definitely not the thing to do to a lovely old collectible piece). I have been using Eichmann RCA plugs exclusively and find them very good. I've tried the Eichmann Silver Bullet plugs as well and honestly can't tell the difference from the standard Eichmann Bullet.

I didn't know that gold as a poor conductivity vs. copper.
I think you're right,gold is for cosmetics and resistance to oxidation.
Thanks Bill for this kind of information,and by the way,did you ever listen to a
Canadian band called The Dears? :thmbsp: They have a very good CD "No Cities Left". :yes:

Ciao. :smoke: