I have a Denon DP-29f full auto TT and it was an orphan that was never used. Fortunately free is good.
My question is,... the manual says the tracking force is 3.5 grams. the cart is not changeable, so will this TT harm any of my albums more than usual?
I've used it maybe 10 times w/ no issues. Actually it works flawlessly and I really like it.
Any comments would be welcome and thanks for replys ahead of time.

I have no experience with tracking forces that high. Sounds scary. I don't mean to sound like a snob, but generally speaking I would place a much higher value on my collection to subject my records to a new TT w/ cart priced at $82 on line. Replacement stylii for it go for $30 which is mind blowing.

I have a Denon DP-29f full auto TT and it was an orphan that was never used. Fortunately free is good.
My question is,... the manual says the tracking force is 3.5 grams. the cart is not changeable, so will this TT harm any of my albums more than usual?
I've used it maybe 10 times w/ no issues. Actually it works flawlessly and I really like it.
Any comments would be welcome and thanks for replys ahead of time.


Is it a conical styli? Most conical's require a high tracking force. I actually have the best or worst of both worlds. Im using a conical on my LAB-400, and an elliptical on my Dual 506. All i have to say is, id be careful if your tracking that high. Its not really good for your records. Elliptical styli track lighter, and less wear on your records. What cart are you running on this tt?

I track at 2.5 grams with my Pickering V15 cart.

Think about it this way, the number one enemy of the vinyl record is dirt. The higher the tracking force, the more of a problem dirt becomes (abrasion). Number two is dull or worn stylus. Number three is tracking too light. All else falls in after that.

Back in the old days when we did not have light tracking tables/arms/styli, we used ceramic cartridges that tracked at 5~10 grams plus. Think old changers from Garrard.

It was amazing, but records survived 100's of plays in those old machines before they died, if ever. Would I want to play them in a modern table, probably not, but vinyl is tough. Keep them clean and enjoy. If you can, score another table someday. But that one will be useful as a used vinyl preview table, even then :)

Most conical's require a high tracking force.

Why? Other than a spherical (if it ever existed) doesn't a conical have the least contact area and the highest psi? It would seem elipticals, Shibatas, line contact are all going to have a larger contact area and therefore lower psi at the same tracking force (assuming similar compliance and/or ignoring dynamic loading)? So why not just use a nail?

Why? Other than a spherical (if it ever existed) doesn't a conical have the least contact area and the highest psi? It would seem elipticals, Shibatas, line contact are all going to have a larger contact area and therefore lower psi at the same tracking force (assuming similar compliance and/or ignoring dynamic loading)? So why not just use a nail?


It has the least contact area yes. All the conical styli ive ever had require at least 2.5 grams. I think because the conical is egg shaped and needs to go deeper into the groove to make the same contact an elliptical makes. And still doesnt get deeper than the elliptical. The eliptical shape is pointy, and goes deeper into the groove with less force or something of the like. But there are so many different shaped styli. I usually just follow what ever is required less i wear out my stylus quicker.

I have a Denon DP-29f full auto TT and it was an orphan that was never used. Fortunately free is good.
My question is,... the manual says the tracking force is 3.5 grams. the cart is not changeable, so will this TT harm any of my albums more than usual?
I've used it maybe 10 times w/ no issues. Actually it works flawlessly and I really like it.
Any comments would be welcome and thanks for replys ahead of time.


if the manual itself recommends a tracking force of 3.5 grams, then use it. they would not recommend a tracking force that would damage your lp's. and if the stylus is conical/spherical, those always require heavier forces. if anything, tracking your cartridge TOO LIGHT will cause much more damage much more quickly.

if the manual itself recommends a tracking force of 3.5 grams, then use it. they would not recommend a tracking force that would damage your lp's. and if the stylus is conical/spherical, those always require heavier forces. if anything, tracking your cartridge TOO LIGHT will cause much more damage much more quickly.

I looked up it up on VE. The tracking force is fixed at 3.5g. It also appears the cartridge is integrated with the arm and not replaceable. Replacement stylii are listed. This is the modern day equivalent of a record player in the form factor of a TT. Obviously entry level with no upgrade path other than replacement.

when you're outside of the specs

Welcome to AK, by the way.
Regarding the comments about conical vs. elliptical styli, I would have guessed the opposite: conicals have a larger surface area and a larger contact area, therefore the higher level of downforce is effectively negated as it is spread over a larger area.
As I read elsewhere, that's why the well-regarded DL-103 (conical) tracks heavier than the 103R (elliptical). Lighter tracking forces are a consequence of smaller styli, not vice versa.

As flat spin says, conical styli have a larger contact area than ellipticals and can be used safely at higher tracking forces. Studies I've read state that in terms of wear a .7 mil conical tracking at 3 grams is comparable to a .2 X .7 mil elliptical tracking at 1.5 grams. Ortofon SPU models have been pleasing well-heeled audiophiles for decades, and most are designed to track somewhere between 3 and 5 grams. I once conducted a casual record wear test using a Stanton 500 AL Mk II tracking at 3.25 grams, playing the same side of an album every morning for 100 consecutive days; I sincerely believe you have nothing to fear tracking your records at 3.5 grams provided you keep a fresh stylus mounted (Denon suggests a new one every 400 hours of play).

Not all conicals are designed to track at higher pressures. The Shure M44G, for example, tracks at .75-1.5 grams.

I have read on the backs of several records warnings that said that they should not be played with a tracking force in excess of 4 grams. These were older records, from the time when changers were still common, and before the really lightweight arms/carts came along. I would assume that is some kind of an upper limit, beyond which wear-and-tear and potential damage to vinyl becomes excessive.

Personally, I don't like to run anything beyond 2.5 grams, and like to run things at 1.8 - 2.0 grams if possible. If something is rated beyond 2.8 grams (which I'll probably still run at 2.5, max 2.6 grams), then I just won't use that cartridge. But that is just me. I have no scientific basis for it, just a general sense that more pressure = more abrasion = more wear = shorter lifespan (of both vinyl and stylus).

But I accept that the difference between 1.8 and 2.5 grams of tracking force will be minimal, on records that have been well cleaned with an RCM and with styli that have been carefully aligned for the best tracking I can manage. I just don't know if the difference between 2.5 and 3.5 grams (or more) will be significant. AT SOME POINT, it has to become excessive. I'd rather be conservative, and not take the chance that I'm getting close to crossing that point. YMMV.

Does anybody know of some investigation if the needle is playing in an empty groove, like inner groove, how long will the needle life be then?
It would seem to me that the stylus pressure would be nearly neglectable in respect to the forces caused by needle acceleration at higher frequencies.
gusten

As flat spin says, conical styli have a larger contact area than ellipticals and can be used safely at higher tracking forces. Studies I've read state that in terms of wear a .7 mil conical tracking at 3 grams is comparable to a .2 X .7 mil elliptical tracking at 1.5 grams. Ortofon SPU models have been pleasing well-heeled audiophiles for decades, and most are designed to track somewhere between 3 and 5 grams. I once conducted a casual record wear test using a Stanton 500 AL Mk II tracking at 3.25 grams, playing the same side of an album every morning for 100 consecutive days; I sincerely believe you have nothing to fear tracking your records at 3.5 grams provided you keep a fresh stylus mounted (Denon suggests a new one every 400 hours of play).

Not all conicals are designed to track at higher pressures. The Shure M44G, for example, tracks at .75-1.5 grams.


This is very interesting. Thanks for that info.

Thank you all so much and thanks for the welcome. I feel better about it now that I have more info.