More Craziness@Olympics

[MikE]

Did you guys see the highlights of the Men's marathon where an X-priest attacked the lead [Brazilian] runner with less than 3 miles to go! I was watching live and have to say that is the strangest thing I've ever seen in a running event. He didn't tackle him but pushed him about 10 yards completely off the course and into specators. Fortunately, they came to his aid and jumped on the guy [the priest, not the runner]. The look on his face was horror. Here I'm leading the race of my life and THIS happens!? You had to feel for the guy. He was leading by 30 seconds and eventually was caught by two other runners. I think he would have been caught regardless of the incident but you have to give him credit for keeping his wits and making the best of a bad situation. He got the bronze and seemed genuinely pleased with that - good for him!

MikE

[luvvinvinyl]

They announced that the runner is being awarded the Culbertin award for good sportsmanship.

This same de-frocked whack job was running on the track during a Grand Prix race in England. The commentator said, "There may be a mental deficiency." Ya THINK???

[MikE]

Yeah, I remember that. Talk about crazy! I only wish the Brazlian runner had decked him! :boxing: MikE

[grumpy]

Originally posted by MikE
Yeah, I remember that. Talk about crazy! I only wish the Brazlian runner had decked him! :boxing: MikE

Yeah I just head about this. Glad to hear the US has not cornered the market on wackos. Really I do feel bad for the Brazilian runner. Who knows how it would have turned out if nothing had happened to him.

Mike

Sounds like I'm rubbing off on you

:D

[opt80]

Luckily it was not another Brazilian or he would have been a Brazil Nut

Alan

[grumpy]

Alan

You crack me up :p:

[THOR]

Just like the USA gymnast should have done it, the winner of the marathon should have walked right over and hung his gold medal around the real winners neck. I am f@cking flabbergasted at the lack of sportsmanship in these athletes, you didn't really win everyone knows it so why keep the medal and look like a shmuck? Just imagine the olympic moment it would have been! Geez louise you'd think they were made out of solid gold and weighed 5 pounds :rolleyes:

[Billfort]

I remember when this whack ran onto that straightaway at the English GP - pretty smart guy, running around waving a sign on a 30ft wide piece of pavement with 20 cars coming at you at 160 miles an hour.

You'd think someone would be checking this guy into a padded suite permanently, I mean, what's his next trick and how long before he hurts somebody?

[MikE]

As a runner myself I was horrified at what happened to the Brazilian runner, especially considering the moment; leading the Olympic marathon late in the race. But the fact of the matter is that the chase group was catching him and considering how strong the other two runners finished I seriously doubt the outcome would have been any different. Of course, we'll never know for sure and I agree the incident obviously didn't favor the Brazilian runner. But the facts are that 22.3 miles doesn't make a marathon and that a 30 second lead doesn't guarantee victory, especially on that brutal course.

I understand the Brazilian runner filed a protest but later admited that he wasn't sure if the outcome would have been any different. While I was incredibly pissed off by the actions of that fool once the other two runners passed him so easily I was pulling for the American to reel in the Italian. But try as he might the Italian runner was just too strong, running the last 5k in 14:10. As it turned out the Brazilian pulled himself together, mentally more than physically, and held on for the bronze. I heard that his appeal was denied but that he is being reconized for his sportsmanship. He and his country should be proud.

MikE

p.s. I just watched the award ceremony and while the crowd showed it's appreciation for the class the Brazilian displayed there was no protest or lack of applause for the other two runners.

[THOR]

I will take your word for it since I didn't see the race and all I know about running is to my refridgerator between commercials ;)

But the USA gymnast didn't really win and that's a fact. The judges didn't add the scores right and by the time anyone realized it it was too late. I'm embarrassed as an American that he kept the medal :(

[Fisherdude]

Thor,

There's actually more to the complete story about the gymnastic gold medal that Paul Hamm won.

Yes, the "start value" used by the judges was 0.1 point too low, and all the judges missed it. However, another mistake was made by the judges. In the parallel bar routine done by the South Korean gymnast, he did four "holds", where he held himself perfectly still in different positions, such as handstand etc. The rules are quite clear on this...you are only permitted to do a maximum of three holds. The judges all missed this mistake, also, and it requires a mandatory deduction of 0.2 point.

In other words, if the judges' mistakes are BOTH corrected, the South Korean gymnast would have a correct score that was 0.1 point LOWER than he actually got. I don't remember what the gap was between third and fourth place, but if if was less than 0.1 point, the South Korean actually didn't even win the bronze, except by mistakes of the judges.

He absolutely DID NOT win the gold.

Jacque Rogge, the president of the IOC, made a very good statement about the situation in an interview that I saw. He said that gymnastics is a "judged sport", just like soccer (and baseball), and that mistakes by the judges/refs/umps, who are human, are most definitely part of the game. He went on to say that if, during an important soccer match, a referee calls a foul that affects the outcome of the match, and then a viewing of the videotape clearly showed that the foul never happened, the outcome of the match would NOT be changed. It's over.

It's exactly the same in baseball. How often do you see a player called safe in a close play at the plate, who then stands up and tells the ump: "You know, the catcher actually tagged me before I slid across the plate, so I'm really out. Don't count the run."

And, of course, the most important part of this is that Paul Hamm's scores were 100% correct, no mistakes were made on his scores at all.

If all of the judges' mistakes were corrected, Paul Hamm would finish first, and the South Korean gymnast would finish in third (or fourth) place.

The International Olympic Committee has stated publicly, several times, that Paul won the gold, deserves the gold, and that the results will stand. To continue to berate him, as many in the media have done, for absolutely no valid reason, is just destroying all of the good feelings and satisfaction that he should be enjoying right now.

It's just heartbreaking. And it's not right.

[THOR]

Well everyone should take this as a lesson, I guess you should know ALL the facts before you stick your foot in your mouth ;)

I was only going by an article I read, it did not mention the parrallel bars thingy so I guess I need to retract my previous statement and I am proud he won the gold for the USA.

I am now going to go find something to be offended about and make sure I have all the facts first ;) :D

[Fisherdude]

Just consider yourself the newest warrior in the ongoing battle for truth and justice in the world!

:D :rockon: :bigok:

[ProAc_Fan]

Thor you were right the first time. The rest of that saga is just the USOC struggling for any excuse to let Hamm keep his medal. Hamm should be embarrased and history will always recall how "tainted" his medal really is. The fact that the international gymnastics federation politely asked Paul Hamm to give his medal to the rightful winner speaks volumes. Could you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot just what would have happened. NBC would have spent days with live coverage of all the proceedings instead of just glossing over it like they did.


Mike

[WhiteSE]

Originally posted by ProAc_Fan
Thor you were right the first time. The rest of that saga is just the USOC struggling for any excuse to let Hamm keep his medal. Hamm should be embarrased and history will always recall how "tainted" his medal really is. The fact that the international gymnastics federation politely asked Paul Hamm to give his medal to the rightful winner speaks volumes. Could you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot just what would have happened. NBC would have spent days with live coverage of all the proceedings instead of just glossing over it like they did.


Mike

Wait a minute,,,Its a fact proven by tape that the korean's score would have been less because of his 4th hold...it was shown on TV....

Are you saying that the world should ignore that scoring mistake while fixing the other one? They should have followed the appeal rules anyway....
I dont remember any Koreans crying when we got ripped on a boxing match in seoul.

[DanTana]

Since the mistake wasn't caught until after the medal was rewarded to him, the least the IOC could of done is just awarded a second gold medal. There was however, like previously noted, two mistakes and both were missed by the judges. So, I think the medal should stand or just award the South Korean a gold also. It is getting ridiculous with these judged events sometimes. Like diving and others where it is purely a matter of subjective view by a small handful of people. If you start worrying about every single mistake a judge makes, either remove all events requiring judges or leave their decisions alone.

[Fisherdude]

Originally posted by ProAc_Fan
... The fact that the international gymnastics federation politely asked Paul Hamm to give his medal to the rightful winner speaks volumes. ...

Mike

After the International Gymnastics Federation asked Paul to give back his medal, the International Olympic Committee, (which runs the Olympics, the gymnastics federation has no say in this) made a public statement that the gymnastics federation had not consulted them before sending the letter, the IOC does not support the letter, and that Paul should keep his medal, which was rightfully and correctly his.

[ProAc_Fan]

Originally posted by Fisherdude
After the International Gymnastics Federation asked Paul to give back his medal, the International Olympic Committee, (which runs the Olympics, the gymnastics federation has no say in this) made a public statement that the gymnastics federation had not consulted them before sending the letter, the IOC does not support the letter, and that Paul should keep his medal, which was rightfully and correctly his.

The IOC is almost completely financed by the television rights fees paid by NBC. Who do you think they are going to back? The error made by the judges in relation to the South Koreans marks was a mathematical error NOT a subjective error like hand placements etc. The IOC normally defers to the sports governing body to settle these matters but since this involved an American athlete all of a sudden they've decided to go with the status quo. If you'd like to see what the rest of the world ( non US world) thinks of this decision checkout some of the Olympic forums from Europe and abroad. They aren't fooled by the obvious biases of the IOC. Why bite the hand that feeds you?


Mike

[dsk]

I don't agree that the number of "holds" on the p bars is "subjective" It is an objective matter of counting all the way to four (three, sir!). There is no ambiguity in the matter, the Korean got a bogus score on the p-bars that outweighed the fact that he was shorted on the other apparatus. However, I expect the Americans would have raised cain had it been the other way 'round. But it wasn't. Hamm won for real.

[ProAc_Fan]

The definition of what constitutes a "hold" is subjective. Just as subjective as toes being pointed or knees being bent. I actually watched these events live and never did the US announcers mention "too many holds". They just went over the routines with a fine toothed comb to come up with this excuse. Trust me if it wasn't this they would have found something else. In my mind, my memory of Paul Hamm will be of him almost falling in the judges laps and keeping a medal he most certainly didn't win fair and square.

I posted earlier during the Olympics that judged sports should be removed from the games and this crap is exactly why I feel that way.

[dsk]

I still disagree with you about whether a hold is subjective or objective, but I agree with your comments about "judged" events. I said long ago that if it doesn't rely on a time or a number of points scored, it isn't a sport. I guess if we want judged events in the Olympics, we shouldn't complain when we disagree with the judges.

[ProAc_Fan]

Agreed.

[DanTana]

The thing that infuriated me the most out of these Olympics is how a bunch of multi-millionaire, spoiled, whiny basketball players can't beat a team that is probably lucky to have a gym to practice in. I don't think the word team work is something they understand, and I don't want to hear the argument, oh, they were worried about security or they didn't play together enough. These guys are professionals and it shouldn't matter what number is player guard or forward or center. The assignments and plays are the same regardless who is playing what position. If a player has good fundamentals they can play with any other person with good fundamentals. Now I wonder if some of those players will be replaced by Argentinian ones next season. The women showed more heart and motivation than the men did and they probably could of beat them. I think that the whole US Men's Olympic team should be forced to play on the Lakers next year :)

[WhiteSE]

I think these judged events can go bad sometimes, but it seems to me that in the vast majority of events, things so quite smoothly...

I say lets not let the most obvious bad events overshadow the times when things go right...interesting how the BAD although less frequent than the GOOD, always stirrs the blood.

[WhiteSE]

Originally posted by DanTana
The thing that infuriated me the most out of these Olympics is how a bunch of multi-millionaire, spoiled, whiny basketball players can't beat a team that is probably lucky to have a gym to practice in. I don't think the word team work is something they understand, and I don't want to hear the argument, oh, they were worried about security or they didn't play together enough. These guys are professionals and it shouldn't matter what number is player guard or forward or center. The assignments and plays are the same regardless who is playing what position. If a player has good fundamentals they can play with any other person with good fundamentals. Now I wonder if some of those players will be replaced by Argentinian ones next season. The women showed more heart and motivation than the men did and they probably could of beat them. I think that the whole US Men's Olympic team should be forced to play on the Lakers next year :)

Now, let me say this again,,Argentina has been an international team to reckon with for years,,,,they have more competitive teams in their leagues than the NBA....Many of the Argentinian players are pro's in Europe.
They have many well setup gyms, and a good system....Dont forget that they got the gold medal in the 2 most popular team sports, Soccer and BBall, and bronze in Field Hockey....they know what they are doing..and its a country with only 35 million people.
Its embarrasing how the USA players playes, but its to be expected,,,,to be honest,,,I think most NBA players are truly dumb, slaves to athletics and showboating, because that is what helps Nike and Reebok sell shoes...

funny how Hockey, which is more brutal and physical, 99% of the players can finish their sentences and are understandable...

[dsk]

There are several good basketball teams from other places in the world. I don't really even care that the Americans didn't win, what royally ticked me off was that so many of them couldn't be bothered to go to the Olympics. THOSE players deserve the scorn, not the ones that went, in my opinion.

[THOR]

Originally posted by dsk
There are several good basketball teams from other places in the world. I don't really even care that the Americans didn't win, what royally ticked me off was that so many of them couldn't be bothered to go to the Olympics. THOSE players deserve the scorn, not the ones that went, in my opinion.

Very good point!

[WhiteSE]

For what its worth, besides Duncan, none of the players were franchise players.....Shaq is getting banged up, Kobe has his issues, I cant recall who backed out,,,oh, Jason Kidd...

These guys although they make megabucks, It is a risk for them, and the NBA grind is a bit tougher on franchise players...It seems like a no brainer to us, but I think if millions and a team was riding on our bodies, and we had to play 100 games a season, including playoffs,,I am not too sure all of us would say Yes.

[DanTana]

I'm not knocking the other teams one bit, in fact I applaud them for their excellent play and determination. Something I thought severely lacking of the US Men's players. They have a love of the game I think that the US may of lost, because they do not make the kind of money we do. I applaud the US Women's Basketball team, Softball team, and Soccer teams for doing what they did. I think they showed more heart and motivation than the men's team have. I realize these other teams play alot, well so do our NBA players, and in what is supposebly the best league in the world. I guess there are many reasons why we lost that, and I think it was the personel that was picked. I saw a bunch of individual's playing than a team. Larry Brown wasn't the best coach either, I don't care if he just won with Detroit. Phil Jackson know's how to handle individual's and make them play as a team. Anyway, it was just sad commentary on our society with professional sports in general. I bet we would of seen a better team of college players than these professionals. They would of showed more determination and team work.

[WhiteSE]

I remember in the late 70's and early 80's when the USA would send 2nd or 3rd rate college teams to play against international teams in Argentina in the McDonalds Championships.......awesome games.....they didnt win a lot of the times, but what spirit and competitiveness...

[DanTana]

When Dean Smith used to take a team of college players to play the Olympics, we knew it was a David and Goliath match, usually the USSR was Goliath. Those kids played their hearts out and it showed even when they lost. Like the 1972 Olympics with that fiasco with the clock. We knew they should of won that, and it broke everybody's heart they didn't, not because of that so much as what the US team had gone through to that point, we watched them play the games of their lives out there and only to lose because of the clock. Now, were Goliath and the rest of the world is David, and the best we can do is 3rd. I think that all those NBA players who turned down the Olympics should be ashamed. I think it would be an honour to represent your country in the Olympics.

[THOR]

There was more than Kidd, Tmac, Garnett and others but there was a lot who refused to go.

[DanTana]

If we would of just sent the Detroit Pistons over, we'd of won. There was a TEAM. I am a Laker fan, and they impressed me, by the end of the series I had to admit, they dominated them. I can respect a player more I think for not going and knowing he can't give 110% than one who does go and only gives 90%. Although, for me it would be difficult to turn down that oportunity. My dad tried for several years to make the US National Trapshooting team and almost did before the 1976 Olympics, he came in 6th in the US. Donald Haldeman beat him at the Olympic Trials in Phoenix, and went on to win the gold.

[THOR]

Awesome idea! NBA champs HAVE to go to the olympics! I like it! :yes:

[DanTana]

You know it's only once every four years, and maybe David Stern should come out and say the winners of the NBA Championship has to go to the Olympics.

[THOR]

Originally posted by DanTana
You know it's only once every four years, and maybe David Stern should come out and say the winners of the NBA Championship has to go to the Olympics.

But what if the NBA champs ended up losing :eek: Could it happen? What would that do to the NBA? Will they risk it? Oh the insanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DanTana]

Well I guess then we'll have to have a team of all Argentinians then.

[2DualsNotEnough]

But on a positive note,did anyone else see the competition with that very decorated Russian gymnist?He performed the most exciting routine on the bars,and was given a terrible score.So terrible that the audience booed for 10 minutes straight.The gymnist came out and took a bow,hoping to calm them down,then the judges changed the score a little,but the booing continued.Finally the russian came out and asked everyone to calm down so Paul Hamm could do his routine.Gets hosed on a major call,and still has the class to do the right thing.Thats the Olympic spirit.
Jimmy

[grumpy]

If a team plays their hearts out to win the NBA championship I have no doubt they could win in the Olympics.

After all there is no way a team can win if they don't play like a team. Kobe proved that !....and so did the US olympic team.