Its been a bad week for my audio gear, first while listening to some LPs last night my Technics receiver fried (early 90s model) with a few loud thumps and then nothing but nasty static across all inputs, even with the volume set at zero. Guess I have to accelerate my quest for a vintage unit. So i scrounged my parents Project One Mark IIIB and hooked it up. One channel out, but after a few minutes things are working. I go to play a record and it just doesnt sound right, so i pulled a speaker cover off and find as the record is playing the woofers are fluttering in and out abnormally (not with the bass in the music). I checked all of the connections, switched out the cables for another set, no luck. I flipped it to FM, things sound fine with no wierd fluttering of the woofers. Must be the turntable. Has anyone seen symptoms like this before? Could it be a bad cart/stylus? I have a new shure M97xe on its way from ebay, hope this may fix it.

any suggestions?? Could it be an issue with the phono hookups on the receiver?

thanks,
-j

My current rig:
Project One Mark IIB
KLH speakers (from early 90s, 12" woofer, cant remember the model)
Dual 1019 TT
Harmon/Kardon FL-83XX CD changer

The woofers moving in and out during record playback is sometimes referred to rumble. It is subsonic information reproduced by the TT. Rumble could be due to a warped record. Most vintage phono preamps have a rumble filter. It is basically a high pass filter at 20Hz to 30Hz. Changing the tracking force of your cartridge may affect rumble. Best solution is to get a phono stage with a rumble filter.

Try isolating the turntable. It could be to close to your receiver.

Thanks for the info! It never did this with my now dead Technics.

Do you have any tips for adjusting tracking force? im pretty new to this.

I believe there is a low and high filter on the receiver itself.

-jamie

man this forum is great, talk about quick response!

thanks guys,
-j

Audio Builder and Grumpy havr already given excellent advice. A third possibility: check your ground. I've observed this problem before. Bad ground and nasty woofer oscillation.

Couple of things come to mind...

1. is the record warped? warping can manifest itself as a periodic large excursion on the woofers.

2. Dual is an idler drive unit, any chance that it sat in the play position for a long time in storage, such that the idler now has a flat spot on it?

CUlater-

The record that i was playing wasnt warped, when I picked up the TT it was in the stop positon. Is there any way to check to see if the idler has a flat spot? It only started this after switching to the Project One receiver.

thanks,
-j

I've had this problem a lot with my system(s). I'm thinking it's because of the layout of the room. As I understand it, the stylus is microphonic and is picking up reflected sounds coming from the speakers, causing a feedback loop.

In my case, I know that the TT is set up correctly. I don't get this all the time, but it still happens upon occasion, usually when there's more bass.

Is it possible that there is a problem in the phono section of the reciever? You did mention that only one channel was good to begin with, so I would think its possible that the turntable is not the problem. And it seems to me that unless the volume is awfully high rumble usually doesn't lead to woofers pumping -- visible motion is pretty low frequency.
But if you are unsure about how to adjust tracking force, you might have a grossly misadjusted tracking force, which might make the arm/cartridge combo squirrelly, and might cause your symptoms. Setting tracking and anti skate on the 1019 is easy. Turn the dial around the base of the arm to zero (thats antiskating). Turn the tracking force dial on the right of the horizontal pivot to zero also. Gently support the arm and rotate the counterweight to move it in or out until the arm is balanced. It should float with the needle close to the height it would be if it were on a record. Now set both the tracking force and antiskate to the appropriate amounts. You may want to finetune both forces by ear, since the standard forces are just averages.
Incidentally, you can download the 1019 manual from the Vinyl Engine website.

Nat-

Thanks for the info. Im thinking that the problem is with the receiver, as the woofers were pumping at pretty low volume. I also need to go through and adjust the tracking force as well.

-jamie

I picked up an Onkyo TX-8211 receiver this weekend, and my new cart came as well! I hooked up the TT to the receiver and sat back to enjoy some tunes, i noticed some slight distortion in the midrange that i hadnt heard before. I changed the cart to the new Shure M97xe and reset the tracing force (much lighter than the original cart) and played some tunes, still hearing a slight distortion in the midrange vocals. The onkyo lists the phono input as "2.5mV, 50 kohms" is this inline with what my 1019 puts out, or would i be better off buying a phono preamp and going into another input?

-jamie

Current rig:
Onkyo TX-8211
Dual 1019
Technics EQ (7-band)
H/K FL-8300 CD Changer
KLH speakers

I assume you have aligned the cartridge correctly, and set the tracking force and anti skate correctly -- if memory serves the m97 has a damper, so the tracking force has to compensate -- I think its 2-2 1/2 grams for an actual needle force of 1-1 1/2. Since the recommended forces (especially the antiskate) are approximations, it might be worth varying them to see if that helps.
As long as thats the input sensitivity, not the overload, I think the input is appropriate.
Is it possible that the record is worn? Or do you get this distortion on all records? What about on other sources?

I downloaded a copy of the 1019 manual and set the tracking force and anti skate following the manual. I have the tracking force set to 2.0g and anti skate to 2 as well. Maybe i need to bring it to 2.5? All other sources sound great, this cheapo onkyo sure does pack some good power. As for the records, i dont hear it on every one, just some that have heavy midrange vocals. It sounds almost as if the TT is cranking to much into the receiver and overloading it at times. The bass (no woofer oscillation!) and high end sound good. Ill play with the adjustments again tonight and see if it helps. Most likely its just me being picky about the sound :).


thanks,
-j

Ive been doing some searching around the web and found a review of the m97xe where the reviewer stated that the cart needs 20 hours to break in, even mentioning the break up in the midrange, and the settling of the cart after break in. Ill have to give it a few more days and see how it goes. It is one great sounding cart, a vast improvement from my original.

Nat-

When you align the cart, what method do you use? I dont have the 1019 gauge thing so i used the Linn Protractor to set overhang. Will this be adequate?

thanks,
-j

I assume the Linn Protractor is the usual one or two point on the record kind of alignment protractor, and ought to be fine. I think that vertical groove on the side of the cartridge carrier might also be a reference mark -- the 1019 manual ought to tell. (I have a Dennesen protractor that is so quick, accurate, and universal that I haven't used anything else for a long time, so my memory of other methods is hazy.)
Here's a thought -- I reread your original post about distortion and it sounds like you heard it with the Onkyo even before you installed the M97. In that case, the culprit is more likely either your speakers or your reciever, not a cartridge issue. I suppose the turntable is another possible suspect -- check for loose lockdown screws and it might be worth tapping the arm gently while the reciever is on to see if its microphonic -- it might be worth working the tracking force spring and antiskate dial back and forth a few times to make sure they are not sticky -- with my Rega arm doing this did something -- even out stresses or somesuch -- that made it less microphonic (though that was with a Decca catridge, the king of microphony).

I checked the alignment with 2 different protractors and it looks like its good. I rebalanced the arm and set the tracking force to 2.5 and antiskate to 2.5. Tested it out and it seems a bit better. I played Darkside of the Moon, specifically the beginning of 'Time' when the clocks chime and i could still here it, but it has definitely been decreased. I can only hear it in specific records that have alot of midrange. Im going to give the TT a complete cleaning this weekend and see if that helps, i need to clean the contacts on the removable headset---what is the best contact cleaner to use to remove oxidation and grime?

thanks
-j

It might be worth seeing if the arm bearings are binding -- one way to get a very rough idea is to balance the arm and while its floating see if a slight breath will make it move and keep going. Hmmm... just tried this with mine, and it doesn't. Maybe your's isn't the only one that needs a clean and lube.
You can clean contacts a couple of ways -- mechanical with a pencil eraser, or chemical with various compounds. I think cramolin may be the best I've used, but connectrol and various other things work well. Make sure you do the RCAs as well as the cartridge carrier and headshell conections.