View Full Version : Is anyone using "vintage gear" for TV sound?


visman
08-21-2009, 12:09 PM
Well it's time to upgrade my surround sound system (I have an older Onkyo 5.1 with built in DVD player). Connected to a 3 yr old Toshiba 1080P HDTV (also to be upgraded).

So I am researching new (and expensive) 7.2 receivers (Onkyo, Pioneer etc.) and it suddenly occurs to me that I could spend my money on some more really nice vintage gear :D .... maybe some tube gear with a pair of Klipsch's - seems it would sound pretty darn good :scratch2:

My question is does anybody use vintage gear for their TV listening pleasure?

wadeus
08-21-2009, 12:24 PM
Yep! Sounds good, too. Two channels of vintage is good for me. I have heard the surround systems at Best Buy, not set in a home, but for me there is something lacking about the presentation. Hollow? Thick? No balls? Something's missing...maybe the super expensive stuff will get you there, but vintage gives way more bang for your dimes.

I guess I am missing out on the surround mix, but I don't care. I don't like the idea of running wires across my room either, or a speaker staring at the back of my head... :)

Not sure about tube gear for movies...anyone?

epifanatic
08-21-2009, 12:27 PM
Been doing it for years, mancave has a Kenwood KA-3500 and Marantz Imperial 7's with the TV,VCR,DVD running through it, sounds great.

similost
08-21-2009, 12:27 PM
Look at my sig.. that's what my TV plays through.. only now the Altecs aren't connected, and a pair of old JBL C36 speakers replaced them..

nickv41
08-21-2009, 12:28 PM
The dirty little secret is 2 channel is all you need for good sound in home theatre. I have gotten many complements using nothing more than an old Yamaha and a pair of Large Advents. There is not even a need for a subwoofer with the Advents.

visman
08-21-2009, 01:14 PM
Thanks for the feedback - I am glad I asked the question!

I have been listening to the Onkyo surround speakers (with a sub) which are nice but nowhere near audiophile - didn't want to spend a bunch of money on more of the same .... now some nice vintage gear and speakers - I am in!

Hepcat
08-21-2009, 01:17 PM
My younger son has a 52" Sony Bravia/DirectTV. He plays his TV and his LP's through a Marantz 2220B and restored Advent Fives. He loves it.

I have both a McIntosh stack and a Yamaha/Mirage surround system in the same room. I usually use the McIntosh except for NASCAR races and some other sports or movies.

Also, many folks with surround systems have their subwoofer and center speakers jacked up too much.

Vintageman1
08-21-2009, 01:20 PM
Using a Vintage Kenny in my set-up. I know more fellows that got fed up with a total surround sound system, sold it all, and are doing the same thing. Set up properly, it's better for music too. The "industry" would hate it if the secret ever got out!

thisOne
08-21-2009, 01:21 PM
Absolutely!!!, my TV sounds great through my Marantz 1250 Integrated

jimreeves
08-21-2009, 01:25 PM
I was considering going all vintage but decided I wouldn't give up the center & surround channels, LFE out and digital inputs and DSP soundfields. Ended up using my older Yamaha RX-V1300 receiver for these features, then used the pre-outs for the mains into my vintage bi-amped Infinity QLS1's. Works great this way since I can use surround soundfields for theater with augmented low frequency effects and stereo for audio only.

kaliph11
08-21-2009, 01:43 PM
I run three different sets of speakers through a Craig 5003 for my home theater. I do not watch television with this set-up. This is for media on disc (dvd/cd) only.

The screen is a television set that has the video cable only run from Denon dvd player. The audio outs are run to the Craig which has A, B and C jacks for speakers. The receiver can run any two speaker sets at 60 watts. I am able to tailor the sound depending on the movie or the music.

tyler_shoe
08-21-2009, 01:46 PM
I use all vintage gear with my television; mainly because I'm just a student and found all this stuff for next to nothing. My dad downstairs has some crappy Sony 5.1 set-up, and personally can't stand it. If I ever have company over for drinks, I'll drag my Marantz downstairs for the night's listening. Like someone has mentioned, not enough presence... it sounds like you're dividing the power too much. We all hear in stereo right? so it's all you need; 5.1/7.1 set-ups just throw the sound around the room in a different way. That's how I see it anyway.

eThink
08-21-2009, 02:07 PM
My question is does anybody use vintage gear for their TV listening pleasure?

I specifically configured both of my Home Theatre systems to be a mix of both "Vintage" ( manufactured prior to year 2000 ) and "Contemporary" (manufactured after year 2000 )

Here is a summary of my living room configuration:

Vintage:

Front Speakers: ads L400 (1990)
CD: Nakamichi MB-2 (1993)
Subwoofer: Canon Plus B subwoofer (1986)



Contemporary:

AVR: Yamaha RX-V800 (2002)
S-VHS: Go Video SDV-650 (same as JVC HR-S9800U) (1999)
DVD: Yamaha DVD-S2300 (2003)
DVD-R: Panasonic DMR-E55 (2004)
HDTV: Toshiba 26HL66 (2006)
Cables: Belkin PureAV (standard length)


All of the components have black faceplates

The Yamaha AVR enables a wide range of connections, both analog and digital, and manages the switching between components. I am using the AVR-800 in 2.1 mode. :thmbsp:

The vintage ads L400s an Canton Plus B provide a wide range of sound for both music and movies. The ads L400s provide accurate imaging; there is no need for a dedicated speaker for the center channel. :music:

merrylander
08-21-2009, 03:08 PM
The TV can be switched through the Yamaha CR-2020 and the Polk Monitor 7Bs at any time but it is mainly when playing DVDs.

Jovinyl
08-21-2009, 03:51 PM
2 Channel here also. Pioneer SX-737, ADS L-400's :thmbsp:

Oerets
08-21-2009, 04:14 PM
Another very happy TV sound through 2 Channel user here !



Barney

Captain Scary
08-21-2009, 05:44 PM
I run my oldschool Mitsubishi 40"CRT through an
H/K A/V unit to a pair of Fisher XP-18s (no sub required)
with Pioneer CS-52Ts as rears.
Gets the job done in fine fashion.

Kenny
08-21-2009, 06:45 PM
This is an excellent time to consider your options for a positive change!
Go backwards in Audio for that real True to Life Sound!
Originally I ran a Monster Technics early 80's 2 channel when the VHS Movie format first came out,a good VHS player back then was $900.00- $1200.00cdn!
First ones were mono signal,using mono vcr,utilizing mono switch on my receiver,then later stereo through the receiver's tape loops,stereo vhs through some JBL 4311 control monitors.Can you say Ballsy!
Next went the surround sound route with 4 Energy Reference Conny's,I was influenced by good earlier Quad LP recordings,but as Wadeus mentioned the HT just seemed like its power ratings were really lame,no balls,way less clarity,I felt ripped off,plus the rear channels were not being used nearly enough for my liking,at first they were,but bean counters ki-boshed that,then came the constant buying/reading of coming format changes/wars,a turn off,then always some issues with my surround receivers,causing neurotic urges to upgrade to the latest chip set,breakdowns,= not worth fixing=Landfill....I'm pretty Green & that pissed me off the most and in all honestly its presentation just sounded like there was a veil was over the speakers/Music when I Listened to Music through HT,it just plain sucked,no life,at least to my old school analogue ears,I will not bore you with the rest,I sold all,including the Energy's,got out with almost my full investment totally intact,bought wisely in my opinion over time time & went back to my "Musical Sound Roots" & have never looked back,so another back to 2 ch convert,I come by it honestly by experience & then good choices.
I really in some ways,other than a modern dvd player & good TV ended up going backwards in audio to some early speakers I had heard in a Home recording studio in the 70's in Vancouver(Canada)some Altec 19's,currently used almost entirely with tubes,vintage Eico,Stromberg & Scott tube amps,interchange them Seasonally,with excellent results for Movies,Vinyl,cd & dvd concerts of all genres.No complaints from my Family or friends!
I was never more satisfied or happier now compared to earlier frustrating,just something missing stereo systems,I have had many,many positive comments regarding our 2 large speakers,& tube amps,the latest being from my daughters girlfriend while watching a dvd Rock Concert,was the Red Hot Chili Peppers at the Slane Castle grounds,obviously their choice,but even though I'm 56 I really like that concert too,enjoying their sixties influences.I used to play drums so the 60's/70's was and is still golden memories to me.
My daughter's friend said I don't know what those glowing things are but those speakers sure sound real!.Ha,got another one!.Nailed her with only 11 Triode watts of Stromberg.Take that Mr. 400 BS watts HT Receiver!!!
So that's kind of cool for me to have a compliment like that from very young ears,as I really like the modified Stromberg Triode Presentation myself,but slightly prefer my 35 watt Eico.To each his/her own sound.
I,however only use the tube amp for watching Movies & DVD Concerts,NOT TV.I would feel like I'm wasting my tube life.Old school thought again,depending on your tube choice & again your budget.
I don't watch enough TV to use the tube amp on boring TV with far too many commercials now a days for my liking.We watch normal evening programing using just the tv speakers.
When I occasionally run my vintage solid state(Philips receiver or amp/pre-amp)which I do rarely throughout the year using interconnects for TV sound,I am the only one who watches normal tv with sound through that solid state amp.
I am old school and I prefer 2 really great speakers over five,or is it ten ho hum HT speakers now,lol\....which ends up in my opinion,unless of course you have unlimited funds, a very complicated mess of so-so quality component choices which equals so-so boring,lifeless sound.Just my opinion,we all hear different & have different budgets.
After all was said & done,experienced,etc,I preferred a real good quality sound that draws me in whether its,Listening to Vinyl,cd's,watching a good Movie,especially one with an excellent soundtrack,or my favorite,a well recoded,properly filmed concert of my choice.
I find with horn speakers I never miss a word of Movie dialogue & a good soundtrack really adds to a movie's quality of enjoyment with true dynamic sound.
I also prefer a system that gives me the proper Tone of an instrument,a Soulful vocal,or sounds reproduced exactly as they sound in real life,even explosions & sound effects,nature etc.
Quality 15 inch woofers do NOT need sub woofers for my enjoyment.Its a real life full bodied sound reproduction.With Oooooomph!!!
Many a time during a Movie where we do hear sounds behind us where there is only a wall.Daughters screams,me jumping,lol,during a good Vampire flick vouch for proper speaker placement.
Try it I think you just might like the simplicity of it all.
A really good 2 channel system will reproduce TV/Movies/Vinyl,cd/.dvd,no problem,anyone tells you different is either full of it or trying to sell you something.
Think about it,why wouldn't you want a system that plays everything well,I have yet to hear an HT system that plays Vinyl & a dvd concert as realistically as mine.Never both,its one OR the other.
I want it all in one simple quality system,not one that only does it for movies,needing another that does it well for Vinyl,you get where I'm coming from.
Would just also like to add one final note,the earlier Onyko stuff I heard sounded very good to me & sold well here at London Audio. Peace & Harmonies
Altec Concert Kenny

SpruceMoose
08-21-2009, 08:08 PM
my HT rig is all modern electronics, but all vintage speakers. double advents for the front three, and double minimus-7s for the sides and rears. all driven off a kenwood vr6070 AVR. for subs i have an audiosource 15 in a custom cabinet with a plate amp, and a 12" philips built into the floor, powered by the remains of an old JVC stereo.

i also share the L/R advents with my tube rig for playing records, see sig.

StereoNut79
08-21-2009, 08:17 PM
Using a Vintage Kenny in my set-up. I know more fellows that got fed up with a total surround sound system, sold it all, and are doing the same thing. Set up properly, it's better for music too. The "industry" would hate it if the secret ever got out!

x2! I'm using a vintage Kenny and a pair of Polk Monitors with an MTX PSW connected via the main out on the Kenny. This is perfect for all of my old VHS tapes that are stereo anyway, plus DVDs sound great, also. I've got the speakers positioned perfectly and it creates a huge soundstage for my movies and music.:music::banana:

gp1680
08-21-2009, 08:46 PM
TV is hooked up through a Sansui 7070 and out to my 3007's and 3006's. No need for a sub. Enough sound to shake my neighbor above me right out of bed. Movies, Xbox, and cable all sound good. I'll sometimes turn on Palladia and watch some old Floyd or Zepellin concerts in HD. :thmbsp:

AnalogDigit
08-22-2009, 04:04 AM
I use a Superscope R350 receiver with two Minimus 7 speakers. The aux input is connected up to a Radio Shack 4 video/audio input switchbox. I can use the TV converter, VHS Hi-Fi, Laserdisk and DVD to be played into the receiver. Since the Superscope receiver also has a simulated 4-channel selector, I was thinking of adding speakers like the Realistic Nova 7B in the rear and have the Minimus 7's up in front and adding a subwoofer too since the Superscope has a nice warm sound to it.

FantasySage
08-22-2009, 11:01 AM
Vintage...not really. Used? yes. I have 4 JBL control 1's that are a decade old or so for mains/rears, an infinity minuet center, and an old kenwood sub that is built like a brick-shithouse. Sounds very, very good. Especially consider I spent 200 or so bucks on it.

Arkay
08-22-2009, 11:48 AM
I have two Marantz TV tuners (vintage silver-front components) that can pick up TV sound directly, using an antenna, and reproduce it nicely in characteristic Marantz "3 martini" sound. :music:

Of course, now that they no longer have free-to-air analog TV broadcasting in the US, I suppose they are only useful elsewhere. :sigh:

I use vintage speakers exclusively for TV sound. Right now, that means NS-1000Ms, but I rotate speakers in this function. The ones that lasted longest in the role were HPM-100s; I thought they made good "TV speakers."

I've toyed with running the decoded sound from my Denon HT amp through vintage power amps, but am not doing so right now.

RawDeal
08-22-2009, 12:06 PM
I use a on old Onkyo ES-6oo input off my pre-amp. This is a separate Pro-logic decoding amp. Center channel and rear. $10 at a garage sale. $20 JBL center-channel speaker and some small rears. I use my 2-channel stereo set-up as mains. Sounds terrific.

Big Tuna
08-22-2009, 01:47 PM
Yeppers! Vintage for me all the way! I run my Pioneer SX-1980 and Kenwood LS-408B's primarily, but I do experiment with my other vintage speakers in my collection, spanning from Kenwood Model Sevens to Cerwin Vegas to Marantz HD880's & 770's also the first generation HD's, HD66 & HD77's. I am giving my brother my SX-1980 soon and I will be putting my Marantz 2275 in the room, or maybe my Kenwood KR-9600 :D

I have always preferred the two channel sound over the multi-stuff. Sound projecting towards me from the front with full range is what its all about. sound from behind, at the side and a randomly placed sub just don't do it for me. I do like the multi-channel stuff and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I have tinkered with multi-channel set-ups before, but I have always gone right back to old school two channel sound :)

derekva
08-22-2009, 02:56 PM
Does semi-vintage count?

I'm in the process of assembling a 'new' home theater system. The L-C-R speakers will be Klipsch KP-250A professionals (have two complete speakers and one set of drivers - will need to build a cabinet at the same time I'm refinishing the complete sets) driven by a custom three-channel tube amp based loosely on the K-502 / K12 8WPC tube amp. The rear speakers are Orb 1's that will be driven by a TBD solid-state amp. In the near term, the pre/pro will be a Technics SH-AC500D, while at some point down the line, I'll probably invest in something more modern.

This is replacing a Marantz 5.1 receiver and a pair of Axiom M22Ti SE speakers + an Optimus Pro CS5.

-D

Steelman
08-22-2009, 03:13 PM
I am currently running my cable, DVD and VCR through my Marantz 2252B and my JBL L100's. This replaced my Onkyo 5.1 receiver, center channel, four satellites and a powered sub.

My girl and my kids were amazed of the power, detail and bass. They all said that they were able to hear things they never heard before.

Just my two cents...

ke4mcl
08-22-2009, 04:21 PM
2 channel is all i use. i gave up on surround a long time ago. just when you thought you had the hot setup, pow! a new surround scheme comes out to make all your stuff outdated. screw that... long live stereo!

i use a pair of very large altec lansing speakers, mac mx114, mac 2505 for horns, acoustat twin 120 for the cones, and a cm604 2 way crossover. i can easily achieve a higher spl than any of those hometheater wonder boxes. you want big explosion, we give you big explosion!

Maicobmw
08-22-2009, 04:51 PM
Yep, 9090DB (in rotation with a KA-9100) and stacked Advents work for me. :yes:

reneborg
08-22-2009, 11:14 PM
I have a hybrid 'vintage' TV setup.

NAD 3020 integrated amp with an Atlantis powered subwoofer and Boston Acoustics 120 speakers. Don't feel the need for 5 channels and all, this setup sounds fine for us. Also have a DVD player for the movies that I have hooked up to play CDs and a tuner for when we want tunes in that room.

whoaru99
08-23-2009, 09:01 AM
Think about it,why wouldn't you want a system that plays everything well,I have yet to hear an HT system that plays Vinyl & a dvd concert as realistically as mine.Never both,its one OR the other.


You just need to listen to a proper HT system, that's all.

visman
08-26-2009, 08:24 PM
I don't doubt a properly set up (and ubber expensive) HT system will sound good (is that a 5.1, 7.1, 7.2 ....9.3 well you get the idea). But you can't argue that vintage gear in 2 channel configuration can provide some amazing sound - and the simplicity of it is the attraction.:yes:

I think I will go from 5.1 to 2.0:D

4player
08-26-2009, 08:59 PM
Definitely agree withany one that uses stereo, i ve owend 5 different surround systems and none of them compare to my vintage philips stereo!!!
Vintage all the way!!!

whoaru99
08-26-2009, 09:12 PM
I don't doubt a properly set up (and ubber expensive) HT system will sound good (is that a 5.1, 7.1, 7.2 ....9.3 well you get the idea). But you can't argue that vintage gear in 2 channel configuration can provide some amazing sound - and the simplicity of it is the attraction.:yes:

I think I will go from 5.1 to 2.0:D

No real argument, but often I see the comparisons of a vintage 2-ch system "blowing away" a HT system. Well, without some normalization of dollars and equipment levels, that's probably true in many cases.

It's just plain bogus to try to compare a complete, new $500 HT system to a 2-ch system that went for $500 back in 1978. That comparison is off by a money factor of over 3x, not even considering the difference in the number of components in the HT system.

There is no doubt in my mind that if one spent truly comparable dollars, normalized for the number of speakers, number of amplification channels, etc., the end result would be a similar/same level of quality.

Let's just take the receiver for an example. Say the vintage receiver cost $350 in 1978. In today's dollars that's roughly $1,150 so, about $575 per channel. Multiply that times 5 for a modern 5-channel HT receiver. Do the typical vintage vs HT comparisons include a $2,900 HT receiver? The answer, I suspect, in most cases is no.

rgwalker
08-26-2009, 09:53 PM
I have a newer receiver, player and sub woofer but the surround speakers are:

Center - 2 x Altec 604-8Gs in 4 cu ft DIY cabinets (in parallel)
Fronts - JBL S7 Olympus with 375 drivers
Rears - Altec 604Es in 5.5 cu ft Barzilay cabinets with tube ports
Sides - Altec 846A Valencias (not hooked up yet)

The speakers are stock (so far) and they are incredible with DVD audio discs.

Bob Walker

Numbersix
09-05-2009, 06:40 PM
My main/surround speaker setup wouldn't necessarily be considered 'vintage', but they are 20 years old or a bit more: Boston T830's (possibly to be replaced with T1000's) for mains and Boston A60's as my surrounds. (I'm using a new Boston CS225 as my center channel, as I couldn't find an appropriate center channel of the same era as the other speakers.) However, I use modern electronics for the audio/video processing.

At some point when I have a bit more space, I may consider using the analog outs to a beefier amp for the front speakers, but currently 130w/channel is quite enough.

Although I enjoy two channel for music (and enjoy the SQ from my 2ch vintage setup), I want to enjoy movies in the way they were mastered in the studio--and that includes the audio information contained in the multichannel soundtrack.

Chopper Greg
09-08-2009, 03:04 PM
I was wondering about complete surround sound systems with older speakers -

I am pricing a home theater sound systems, and remembered that my folks left me some speakers when they died.

So I am wondering about using the older speakers instead of shelling out $150 for a speaker system based on 3 inch speakers.

I have a pair of:

Realistic Nova-7B
Sony SS-M90N

and I know where to pick up a pair of Sherwood S-1900 for $35 ( that appear to be in good shape )

The question I have is - Can decent surround sound be done with any of them ?

If so, then I can spend a few more $ on a better A/V processing platform.

goldwax
09-08-2009, 03:41 PM
At work I have my DVD and VHS players hooked into my stereo system, so I watch TV with the sound down on my set, and run everything through a Pioneer SA-6800 and Boston Acoustics A60s. Looks and sounds great!

musichal
09-10-2009, 12:48 AM
When you mention "vintage" and "tv sound," I couldn't help but remember the old Dynaco QD-1. See here:

http://kantack.com/surround/surround4.html

Probably most of you remember it as well, but if you never played with it, the effect can be recreated simply by connecting a rear pair of speakers to your stereo receiver in a certain way. As I recall, as long as your receiver's speaker outputs share a common ground, you can do this to derive ambient sound without harm to the amplifier. At any rate, I have done this many times with various receivers without incident, but try at your own risk.

You connect one of your rear speaker's positive teminals to the positive output of the receiver's right channel. Connect the other rear channel speaker's positive terminal to the receiver's left channel positive output. Then connect the black terminals of the two speakers together (no wires are connected to the receiver's black terminals, except for the front speakers which are connected normally). This give you the L-R (left minus right, aka 'difference') signal to the rear speakers, which basically means you will hear whatever is different between the two channels and which includes ambient info, and can sound good on some music recordings.

Works for movies, too, since the Dolby Surround system matrixed rear channel info into the L-R signal. Not much separation, however, this being a passive system without steering logic, but it can be fun and instructional to play with, and some folks I did this for twenty years ago still keep it that way. Admittedly, they are neither audiophiles nor critical listeners as most of us tend to be here, but if you've never tried it....

If your front speakers are a lot more efficient than the rear, you may not hear them. I always had several speakers around, and would try various models until I hit upon one where the rear level was just audible. Although the Dynaco includes a level control, for most applications the rears had to be full up anyway; those aren't volume controls, just attenuators which I'd rather not have on my front speakers. And, of course, there is no delay to help make up for the fact that most rear speakers end up closer to the listener than the front ones.

Yes, it can be criticized on several points, and yet can be very enjoyable with some recordings and most movies. I used a setup like this (sometimes) for music and movies back in college, and simply put an in-line switch on one of the wires to break the connection when I didn't want it (within easy reach of my listening chair). For vintage surround, this is a viable option, and can let you experience those top gun type effects without processors to cheese up the fronts. If you already have some speakers and wire, it's free.

Although I did indeed have a QD-1 for a little while, I preferred the above hook-up which accomplishes the same thing. Just takes a little more careful speaker selection. Also, I know some of you guys are very familiar with this passive matrix derivation already, so excuse the simplicity and crudity of this post; it was mainly intended for those who never knew such a thing was possible, and who may want to play with the idea some rainy day.

bamark
09-10-2009, 09:29 PM
Were you able to use an HDMI cable?
I ask because I want to do the same thing with a Pioneer SX-650, just not sure how to wire it all in.

radeng9805
09-12-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm on both sides of this. One of the things I do for a living is install HT and multi-room systems. I am constantly exposed to the latest A/V gear, and some of the HT systems I have built sounded very good in stereo mode. That being said, I would not consider getting rid of my separate 2 channel rig. Many of the customers I deal with have no experience with a truly great stereo system (vintage or otherwise). When playing a CD, radio or most likely an iPod, an alarmingly large percentage of consumers complain when there is nothing coming from the surround channels. If they have at least half a brain I try to explain that true surround information is only going to be present if the audio engineer put it there, like if they are mixing a movie on a sound stage. While there have been (mostly classical/audiophile stuff) CDs with some form of surround encoding, it is not yet a significant factor in music sales. I don't argue with the idiots who feel "ripped off" if sound is not coming from all the speakers, all the time, I just show them how to turn on one of the crappy sounding simulated surround modes.

While cobbling together a 2 channel HT from vintage odds and ends will certainly let you hear most of the folded down surround soundtrack of a DVD, satellite broadcast, or local digital cable, many of those posting on this thread are deluding themselves that it's just as good or better than a properly installed modern medium to high-end HT set up.

These days, you need HDMI switching (to connect to modern TV's), good D/A converters (since your surround audio is coming in over the HDMI or the coax/optical
digital inputs), and a smart remote that can control everything. Once you get up in the line a couple of models, most all HT receivers have all that. Can you duplicate these functions with outboard gear and marry it to vintage stuff? Well, sure. Will it be a complicated mess to set up and operate? Probably.

Unless you get up into the $3,000-5,000 range of HT receivers, don't expect it to sound near as good as nice restored vintage 2 channel gear. But from a practical operational viewpoint (like a family room in a house with a bunch of kids), there is no way vintage analog gear (with the possible exception of speakers and power amps) can compete with Dolby Digital or DTS for the best in audio for video experiences.

my .02

radeng9805
09-12-2009, 06:26 PM
Since a lot of you folks post your gear:

Theater-

NAD T-753 receiver
B & W 802 L/R/C
B & W 502 rears
Intersonics 2-15 sub
Big-ass Crown in parallel mono driving sub
Various VCR/DVD/Mini DV/laserdisc decks
Apex DTV tuner
Vidikron 3 gun projector/Da-lite 84" screen

Stereo-

Linn LP12 with Benz cartridge
Tube receiver: Sansui 1000A (mostly restored)
SS pre/amp: Linn LK1/LK2
Magnum Dynalabs FT101 tuner
NAD 6300 cassette
Pioneer RT-707 reel to reel
Sony CD recorder/changer
Sony DAT
Various speakers
JL Audio sub driven by custom x-over and bridged Adcom 5300

musichal
09-12-2009, 07:28 PM
The best move I made for HT sound is purchasing the Lexicon dc-1 with DD/THX capability, and it also was a huge upgrade for music on that rig, as well. However, no HDMI.

With my all-Paradigm Performance series speakers and sub, and Adcom GFA-5500 & 5503 power amps, the SQ betters any HT receivers I've heard. The Lexicon is several leagues above the Adcom GTP-whatever that came with my amps.

snookinman
09-12-2009, 08:17 PM
I use an old yamahaCX630 pre amp and a Yamaha DSP580 surround processor,If I want to listen to music i just turn the processer off. I only use the on board amp on the processor for my center, i have a seperate amp dedicated for the rear surrounds, and two amps for the two sets of polk rt800is for music,polk f/x bi/di ploe surrounds are ran by a third amp. the only problem was the pre amp only has 1 set of pre outs so i bought a C Labs A/V 901 audio video distribution amplifier now i have 9 balanced outputs so i can run the multiple amps and 3 subs I run 1 psw 10 for music and 2 CV LW 12 for HT. I have to because the room is quite large.I didn't spend a bunch on the setup and it sounds better that any box HT and it also sounds really good just for music. so yes you can have the best of booth worlds you just have to think outside the box.

waylyn5945
09-15-2009, 01:48 PM
I use a Denon AVR-3805 with Polk Monitor 10bs for the front. I'm ready for the music to begin!:banana:

gkimeng
09-15-2009, 02:03 PM
Front channels = AR-3a (60's)
Surround channels = AR-2ax (70's)
Center channel = AR-ms1 (80's)
Sherwood Newcastle AVP-9080 5.1 pre and AM-9080 main (1999, is 10 years old enough to count as "vintage?" Selected because the pre has a pure analog mode, MM/MC phono pre and a real tape monitor loop and the main rates power in good, old-fashioned "vintage" FTC watts)
AR-TT turntable w ADC XLM II cartridge (60's table, 80's cartridge)
Akai GX-F95 cassette deck (80's)
SAE 5000 click/pop eliminator (70's)
dbx 3BX dynamic range expander (80's)
dbx 200 route selector (80's)

The "new" parts of the system are a Toshiba upsampling DVD player that also serves as the system CD player, a 40" Toshiba LCD TV and the HD converter from the cable co.

Chopper Greg
09-15-2009, 02:40 PM
Unless you get up into the $3,000-5,000 range of HT receivers, don't expect it to sound near as good as nice restored vintage 2 channel gear. But from a practical operational viewpoint (like a family room in a house with a bunch of kids), there is no way vintage analog gear (with the possible exception of speakers and power amps) can compete with Dolby Digital or DTS for the best in audio for video experiences.

my .02

What about using older speakers ( read that as big 3 way speakers ) with new A/V reciever?

Technophobe
09-15-2009, 02:51 PM
Yes. Have only ever used vintage for TV audio. I have an HK Award Series 500 running through a pair of vintage Electro-Voice speakers, connected to a Magnavox floor model color console. Believe me, it sounds great and has a lot of kick. The sound is really good straight across the board...highs-mid-and lows.

I say go for it. Good Luck. Let us know what you come up with, if you do.

Cheers.

Herr Eickhorn
09-15-2009, 03:05 PM
What about using older speakers ( read that as big 3 way speakers ) with new A/V reciever?

Vintage speakers work great with new A/V HT receivers. Thats the easiest way to integrate vintage equipment into your HT set up. I run 100% vintage Yamaha's for my 5.1 system including ebony NS-1000's for my mains.

gkimeng
09-15-2009, 03:28 PM
But from a practical operational viewpoint (like a family room in a house with a bunch of kids), there is no way vintage analog gear (with the possible exception of speakers and power amps) can compete with Dolby Digital or DTS for the best in audio for video experiences.

I briefly considered using stacks of 2ch pre and power amps with an external DTS/DD decoder because the decoder could take over volume and balance control from the pre's, and I have no doubt the sound would have been competitive as far as "the best in audio for video experiences" goes. But those "practical operational viewpoint" considerations still meant that a simple bass or treble adjustment would require aligning the controls on multiple preamps, and I could see myself easily forgetting which preamp the 2ch turntable and tape deck were feeding into. It was just too much to have to bother with...and I don't even have any kids. So all the rest of the vintage system, along with the DVD and the HD cable converter, now plug into a 5.1 surround pre and a 5 ch main.

Chopper Greg
09-15-2009, 04:07 PM
Yes. Have only ever used vintage for TV audio. I have an HK Award Series 500 running through a pair of vintage Electro-Voice speakers, connected to a Magnavox floor model color console. Believe me, it sounds great and has a lot of kick. The sound is really good straight across the board...highs-mid-and lows.

I say go for it. Good Luck. Let us know what you come up with, if you do.

Cheers.

Right now I have 4 pairs of different speakers, and it will probably stay that way untill I can find some more that will match what I have.

Yggdrasill
09-15-2009, 04:17 PM
While cobbling together a 2 channel HT from vintage odds and ends will certainly let you hear most of the folded down surround soundtrack of a DVD, satellite broadcast, or local digital cable, many of those posting on this thread are deluding themselves that it's just as good or better than a properly installed modern medium to high-end HT set up.

These days, you need HDMI switching (to connect to modern TV's), good D/A converters (since your surround audio is coming in over the HDMI or the coax/optical digital inputs), and a smart remote that can control everything. Once you get up in the line a couple of models, most all HT receivers have all that. Can you duplicate these functions with outboard gear and marry it to vintage stuff? Well, sure. Will it be a complicated mess to set up and operate? Probably.

Unless you get up into the $3,000-5,000 range of HT receivers, don't expect it to sound near as good as nice restored vintage 2 channel gear. But from a practical operational viewpoint (like a family room in a house with a bunch of kids), there is no way vintage analog gear (with the possible exception of speakers and power amps) can compete with Dolby Digital or DTS for the best in audio for video experiences.

my .02

Interesting thoughts.

I had a surround system for a number of years, based on a mid-range Onkyo receiver, that I got rid of when I had kids - no more monitors on stands to be tipped over, no more cables running across the floor. Since then I've done everything strictly two-channel, mostly with vintage gear. I have used a variety of vintage receivers and amps (Marantz 2270, Yamaha CR-1020 and C-4/M-4 combo, Sansui AU-9900, Kenwood KA-5500, Accuphase P-300) and always been pleased with the results.

I think we need to be clear about the functionality we're looking for in comparing vintage gear with a modern surround system for video entertainment. A vintage two channel system lacks the following:
1. Audio codec processing;
2. Remote control;
3. Sound equalization;
4. The surround experience.
5. Some connectivity options (HDMI, USB)

#1 can be handled by the DVD player, or the audio out on your Tivo. A good DVD player will decode Dolby Digital, DTS, etc. into a two channel format. You don't need a modern receiver or preamp to do this.

#2 is a biggie, especially for us. With young children in a small house, you don't want them waking up into your rare and precious "adult" movie viewing time. Movies tend to have a greater range of output than do audio CDs. Going from quiet talking to machine guns/explosions can be jarring. I miss the "late night" attenuating feature of my home theater receiver. I have compromised by getting a modern two channel preamp (Odyssey Audio Tempest Extreme) with a remote volume control to even things out manually.

#3 My friend bought an $800 Yamaha surround receiver that he uses with two old Technics speakers on the front, and a PSB center and PSB rears that he bought from me when I downsized. His rig sounds GREAT for music, largely I think because of the built in equalization function of the receiver. You put a microphone in the listening spot and the receiver automatically calibrates speaker output. I'm still struggling to get my system to sound as good as it can given my limited options for speaker placement and room treatments.

#4 I have what I consider to be fantastic speakers (LS6's by AV123) that just deliver everything I could want from a speaker. I don't miss rears much and I definitely don't miss the center channel. In fact, when I go to the audio dealers and sit in their home theater rooms I find the sound to be overly focused on the center. With a good stereo setup the dialogue seems more naturally placed to me.

#5 This is a non-issue for me. I don't need HDMI switching, as I can run directly from my DVD player to the TV. I suppose if you have several HDMI sources, and simply cannot live with a lesser video feed from any one of them, then you'll want something modern. I don't have TV; my sources are my DVD player for movies and the very occasional CD, a Squeezebox Duet (run through an outboard DAC) for music, and my computer for some online streaming of audio and video content. All of these can be handled by a two-channel preamp or integrated.

Some day, when we move to a larger space, I may put together a home theater setup. That will have a nice modern surround preamp - maybe something by Emotiva, vintage amps, and mostly vintage speakers. I really think you can get 90% of the home theater experience with a high-quality two channel system - put your money into good speakers. If you need that extra 10% then you'll need at least some modern gear.

Infinitoid
09-16-2009, 05:35 AM
The equipment listed in my signature provides the sound for a Sony TV in our vintage/computer room. It's also where the grandkids watch their imitation, artificial substitute for wrestling. The home theater at the other end of the house - that's a whole new (and newer) ballgame.

jetblack
09-16-2009, 05:51 AM
Back in the 80's and early 90's, I used my Technics amp for TV listening. It was certainly an improvement over listening w/o the amp. :thmbsp:

Crunch
09-16-2009, 08:55 AM
I play my DVDs through a Fisher 800-C and a pair of Fortes I.

jayk
09-16-2009, 09:03 AM
been using my 36 yr old pioneer qa800a 4 channel quad amp for tv sound for at least 25 years.
for the last 5 years, with my hi def front projector/84" screen based Home Theater setup. this setup now includes blu ray and hd dvd players.

edit-the above system is for movies, concerts, and music listening.
when i watch tv it's on a tv, not this rig. altho the tv audio can be routed to the big system i have yet to use it that way.

even the 'small' advent front speakers are upwards of 30 years old. the ads L420 rear surrounds are 'newer', purchased new in 1980.
and no sub needed.

and it all works like a charm!
or as my friends, neighbors, and relatives call it, 'awesome!'

Oerets
09-16-2009, 09:16 AM
I've been looking at TV's , what will be needed :scratch2: to make our Vintage equipment work with the models that DO NOT come with the red/white audio outs ? Looks like the red/white audio outs are being fazed out on the some models .....
Along with the S-Video connections .


Barney

gkimeng
09-16-2009, 11:09 AM
I've been looking at TV's , what will be needed :scratch2: to make our Vintage equipment work with the models that DO NOT come with the red/white audio outs ? Looks like the red/white audio outs are being fazed out on the some models .....
Along with the S-Video connections .

Would you really be taking your sound from your TV? Mine has audio outs, but I feed sound from my DVD player and cable box to the audio system.

Chopper Greg
09-16-2009, 11:19 AM
I've been looking at TV's , what will be needed :scratch2: to make our Vintage equipment work with the models that DO NOT come with the red/white audio outs ? Looks like the red/white audio outs are being fazed out on the some models .....
Along with the S-Video connections .


Barney

For several years, I plugged in a set of nice amplified computer speakers w/ sub-woofer, into the headphone jack, and that was my basic 2.1 stereo.

What you want to do is invest in a home theater module - $150 for a very base end system ( but most will 'up convert' ) and that is the unit that has all the hook-ups.

cityslicker
09-16-2009, 12:21 PM
I like vintage 2 channel and H.T. 5.1 surround as well, but the problem is that you need good speakers in a 5.1. system.Them cubes and bullshit Bose don't cut it. My buddy has a new setup with a Yamaha H.T. receiver with Klipsch cubes and sub woofer. It sounds great when watching a movie, but when he cranks up some tunes it sounds like shit. I don't believe in surround speakers. I use regular box speakers for the front and rear on my 5.1. I also don't depend on a sub for my bass. I use big tower speakers for my fronts. As stated by (WHOARU99) some folks,(not all) have never heard a good surround 5.1 system.

Oerets
09-17-2009, 09:00 PM
Just finished setting up a new Plasma in the main room , going into my Marantz 1070 .
Just 2-Channel with 4 speakers .
Except for not having a remote control for the signal to the marantz all's A-OK !!
The old TV would adjust the audio out signal strength to the Pre-Amp .

Still messing around with the settings , but I must say :banana::banana::banana: Happy so far !!


Barney

TTomanto123
09-18-2009, 12:42 PM
Have a great-sounding garage/shop system that I'd like to extend to include stereo sound off the cable feed for TV/sports viewing. System includes:
Sansui G-5700 stereo receiver, driving 2 VMPS large ribbon center channel speakers (which kick butt nearfield, BTW!). The Sansui doesn't allow for a coax connection, and the TV is old and without any connection or terminals except the one coax input. Is there a cheap way to do this without using a seperate HT Reciever? I stopped at Radio Shack and they were pretty clueless. Need to just split the cable TV feed audio off to two RCA plugs. Would like to clearly hear Jerry Jones sobbing as the Giants game ends Sunday night. Thanks.

Correction, there is a 2 RCA connection on the side of the TV labeled Video (yellow) and Audio (red), but I'm pretty sure that's only an input.
No cable box being used.

celticguitar
09-18-2009, 05:07 PM
I was using my Carver mag field amp ( areal monster) then my HK 330c which sounded good but I switched to mid 80's VSX 5000 Pioneer( Thrift find does 20 yo amp qualify as vintage these days?) with dolby suround which sounds fanstastic CM6 ADS satelites fronts ADS 12 inch powered woofer and Aiwa surounds rear (not the best but they sound good for rear channel) could make it 5.1 if I put a splitter on center/woofer tap TV is Toshiba REGZA 46 LCD
Dwight

Oerets
09-18-2009, 06:36 PM
Is there a cheap way to do this without using a seperate HT Reciever?

Get you an old Stereo VCR and use it like a tuner for the TV (feeding channel 3-4) . Just make sure the VCR has the RCA"s you need .




Barney

TTomanto123
09-21-2009, 09:34 AM
Thanks Barney. Worked like a charm! :banana:

Bogframe
09-24-2009, 12:58 PM
I have a 1989 LXI TV that I bought new at Sears. It has a pair of speaker jacks in the back. Two HPM-100s in those give me great sound. evidently, LXI did something right with the amplification in the set, although the two built in speakers have always sounded like crap.

Blackstone
09-25-2009, 11:55 AM
Mix of older and newer.

Living room: Pioneer 5.1 HT receiver used for 2-channel only. (It's OK for HT, but great for 2-channel.) Minimus 7 speakers and small Yamaha 8" down-firing sub. I'm surprised at how good this sounds for tv and dvd's.

Mancave: #1. Pioneer 7.1 HT receiver, Sony SS-TL5 towers fronts and sides. Advent Prodigy mini-towers rears. (All speakers 20+ years old.) 15" sub. No center. I prefer phantom center. This setup is like having the impact of stereo but still getting all of the other surround affects. ------------ #2. 2-channel music: Pioneer vsx-D1S, Technics SL-PS900 cd player, Avid 102 speakers.

Though I've put some work into the HT setup, it's mostly used for DVD's via coaxial digital input/output. This is the only time that I feel that the HT setup is showing it's full potential. And that is mainly on action movies. In this area, action movies are more enjoyable in HT than in 2-channel stereo.

For regular OTA digital tv and satellite tv watching, or even non-action dvd movies...the HT receiver is in 2-channel mode w/ 15" sub active.

pharoah
10-04-2009, 11:00 AM
i was using vintage for tv sound it was a kenwood ka-3700.since ive got a t-amp now i mainly use it.i do like 2 channel for movies.i have a surround receiver that is almost new,and hardly ever use it.

tiga
10-05-2009, 02:43 PM
I'm using a mix of old and new in my man-cave with pretty good results. I have OTA TV being tuned by a Apex DT250 and sent to an Onkyo 606 receiver. THere's a LG bh200 blu-ray/hd dvd player also connected to the onkyo 606 via hdmi as well as L/R RCA connected to a Sansui 771. The Onkyo connects to a IN72 projector and uses 3 vintage BA A40 speakers for the LCR and new Polk M10 rears and a new TSC sub.

I'm also using the Zone 2 pre-amp outs of the Onkyo to feed into the 771. The sansui 771 is driving two BA A70's.

I'm new to all of this so at first I was all about the new equipment and surround sound. I now realize that really only like the surround sound with action movies (esp. blu-ray/hd dvd) but for tv and non-action movies I prefer a two channel set-up. It's much cleaner and easier to listen to. All good stuff.

cwall99
10-05-2009, 02:55 PM
The dirty little secret is 2 channel is all you need for good sound in home theatre. I have gotten many complements using nothing more than an old Yamaha and a pair of Large Advents. There is not even a need for a subwoofer with the Advents.

That may be true in most cases, but there's some awesome stuff you miss with just two channels. First, for most major motion pictures, the sound is engineered to be played back in a multi-channel surround sound environment. It's probably most significant if you're into action or science fiction movies.

I love the slow pans of massive space ships moving overhead in the Star Wars series - as bad as the rest of those movies are.

Saving Private Ryan (and Band of Brothers) is a totally different beast when heard in at least a 5.1 surround mix compared to stereo mix.

Any of the Pixar films take on a much more immersive quality when heard in a surround mix.

Brother, Where Art Thou.... when they walk into the baptism scene by the river is incredible in a surround mix. You'll hear birds in the trees above and around you. It was mixed beautifully.

It sort of reminds me of the Beatles mono box set discussions... why in mono? because that's the way they were first engineered or mixed. Same thing here, only in reverse.

So, sure, you can get good audio through a stereo mix, but you aren't hearing it the way it was recorded, and it was recorded specifically to immerse you deeper into the film.

cwall99
10-05-2009, 02:59 PM
Also, many folks with surround systems have their subwoofer and center speakers jacked up too much.

Most decent AVRs these days have automatic room equalization systems (Pioneer Elite uses a proprietary system called MCACC, but Audyssey is big in a number of other brands). Those systems are very easy to use and will probably do a more than adequate job of setting you up. Obviously, you can get it and tweak them if you want so you're not just a slave to what the machine says you ought to listen to.

Or it could just be that the listeners prefer it that way. It's a subjective call after all.

cwall99
10-05-2009, 03:05 PM
my HT rig is all modern electronics, but all vintage speakers. double advents for the front three, and double minimus-7s for the sides and rears. all driven off a kenwood vr6070 AVR. for subs i have an audiosource 15 in a custom cabinet with a plate amp, and a 12" philips built into the floor, powered by the remains of an old JVC stereo.

i also share the L/R advents with my tube rig for playing records, see sig.

Interesting idea: use a modern AV Pre/Pro and feed the balanced outputs to vintage tube amps and then on to vintage speakers. That way you can accommodate the modern mixing and then amp and playback that signal with all the vintage gear. I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but it sure seems like a very similar set up to what you're talking about.

cwall99
10-05-2009, 03:17 PM
You just need to listen to a proper HT system, that's all.

Touche!! +1 on this post.

cwall99
10-05-2009, 03:27 PM
So I am wondering about using the older speakers instead of shelling out $150 for a speaker system based on 3 inch speakers.

I have a pair of:

Realistic Nova-7B
Sony SS-M90N

and I know where to pick up a pair of Sherwood S-1900 for $35 ( that appear to be in good shape )

While, if you've been reading my posts, clearly in the camp of getting a bang outta my relatively modern AVR (it does totally rock), I feel pretty comfortable saying that shelling out $150 for a speaker system based on 3-inch speakers is always going to be a waste of money, whether those speakers are vintage or not. There's just no substitution for cubic inches.

I can't comment on the Realistic or Sony or Sherwood speakers as I've never heard them.

The great thing about this hobby, though, is that you never have to buy a whole system. The only thing I'd make sure to recommend, though, is that if you're buying speakers for a 5.1 set-up, you should probably buy your front three speakers at the same time. I'd recommend doing everything you have to get a nice set of matched drivers all the way across the front for optimum results. Surrounds and subwoofers don't have to match the fronts, but it is important to get a good set of matching drivers across the front.

tiga
10-05-2009, 09:05 PM
I tend to agree with this. I'm using 3 identical speakers for the LCR and the front soundstage is seamless. If you can't get 3 identical for the front then I'd recommend two good Left and Right speakers. Many may disagree with me but I'm starting to think the center channel is the least needed speaker for a good surround experience.

I think it comes into play more when the small crappy cubish speakers are used but if you are using higher quality speakers with good soundstage and imaging on the left/right you may not miss the center speaker.

I'm hoping this weekend to try my Onkyo with my A70's on the L/R without a center speaker and watch a couple action movies and see how I like it. When I use my A70's for 2-channel tv watching dialogue seems to come from the center of the room. Then again those A70's are DFS (damn fine speakers).
Tiga

The only thing I'd make sure to recommend, though, is that if you're buying speakers for a 5.1 set-up, you should probably buy your front three speakers at the same time. I'd recommend doing everything you have to get a nice set of matched drivers all the way across the front for optimum results. Surrounds and subwoofers don't have to match the fronts, but it is important to get a good set of matching drivers across the front.

Goodwill_HiFi
10-05-2009, 09:08 PM
Star Wars series - as bad as the rest of those movies are.

Huh? You're either too old, or too young to appreciate them. :nono:

Vintage_Hi-F
10-05-2009, 09:21 PM
Huh? You're either too old, or too young to appreciate them. :nono:

I believe he is talking about thata horrible prequel series that we shall never speak of again.

Now back to the OP's original question, before I realized that the quad needed fixing (among other things) I was happily using a vintage Sansui QRX-5500 for my "theater" experience who needs 5.1 when you have 4-channel sound. :D

jayk
10-05-2009, 09:24 PM
...who needs 5.1 when you have 4-channel sound. :D
what he said!
pioneer qa800a quad amp (ca '73)-still crankin'! i run blu ray, hd dvd, and dvd multi-channel (4.0) audio thru it.
and use a second qa800a in a seperate system. it too, is still crankin'!

Blackstone
10-05-2009, 10:31 PM
I think it comes into play more when the small crappy cubish speakers are used but if you are using higher quality speakers with good soundstage and imaging on the left/right you may not miss the center speaker.

I'm hoping this weekend to try my Onkyo with my A70's on the L/R without a center speaker and watch a couple action movies and see how I like it. When I use my A70's for 2-channel tv watching dialogue seems to come from the center of the room. Then again those A70's are DFS (damn fine speakers).
Tiga


I used to have a center channel speaker. I then switched to a "phantom center" (no center speaker). It took some extra calibration and speaker position testing. But now I have a wide center image without the center speaker. Currently I have no desire to go back to having a center speaker.

cwall99
10-06-2009, 10:53 AM
Huh? You're either too old, or too young to appreciate them. :nono:

I was 14 when Star Wars first appeared on the scene. I have two sons who're teenagers now and who love these movies. I have several different boxed sets of the movies in different iterations. I have spent more time than I care to recall watching these movies.

Star Wars... even my wife is a Star Wars nerd. Her brother nearly needs to be sedated if he's over and we're going to watch a version of Episode 4 where it appears Greedo shoots first.

With the exception of Episode 5, the dialog is atrocious. The acting is wooden. The story line is so forced. And that's not including the prequels which are disastrously worse in terms of being good stories.

They could be so much better, but it turns out that George Lucas is more interested in special effects and cheesy story-telling gimmicks and really awful pans and wipes than he is in making good movies, and he's got so much money and influence in his own little corner of the world that no one wants to tell him, "Uh, George, maybe we should bring in someone else to write the screen play. Why don't you go do the things an Executive Producer should do?"

cwall99
10-06-2009, 11:02 AM
I used to have a center channel speaker. I then switched to a "phantom center" (no center speaker). It took some extra calibration and speaker position testing. But now I have a wide center image without the center speaker. Currently I have no desire to go back to having a center speaker.

I'm not sure if this argues for my main left and right speakers (B&W DM603 S3s) having exceptionally good imaging capabilities or what, but I find that often, when I'm just listening in stereo (and not using the B&W LCR600 center channel), that I have to get up and listen to the center channel to make sure it's not on. It's crazy.

So, that would appear to support the argument that a center channel is not needed, and that might be true (and I've read many articles saying that you can do without one), however, we also use this system as our primary television watching venue, and I think it's here that the center channel earns its keep.

I also think, especially in busy scenes with a lot of stuff going on sonically, the center channel improves the sound in a 5.1 mix movie.

Oh, and one other argument in favor of using a center channel: Jerry Harrison, when he was re-mixing the Talking Heads music for the DVD-A 5.1 re-mix collection, Brick, said that having five channels, but especially a third channel in the front, really gave him a lot more to work with, especially with a lot of the Heads' more sonically dense pieces. Those disks rock, by the way.

I'll hold onto my center channel for now. But a 7.1 mix is probably never going to happen in my house given the floor plan of the main system's room.

levlhed
10-18-2009, 09:28 PM
I posted in the vintage gear in home theatre (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234452) thread already, but this is almost the same thread?

Thinking about popping a tube amp onto my main L/R speakers via the preamp-outs of my Onkyo 806 in an attempt to attain something closer to the best of both worlds.

MikeCh
10-24-2009, 07:40 PM
We're looking to buy a new plasma tv for our basement listening area. Looking at the 50" LG 50PQ20 from Costco as it's currently at $749. Question, from the specs found here: http://www.lge.com/us/products/documents/lg_he_pdp_ss_50pq20.pdf It looks like my only option for "audio out" is of the Digital Optical kind???

I can supply that connection to a newer preamp I have here, but was hoping that I won't be limited ONLY to a digital optical out.....anybody see how I could hook up an older vintage amp for audio using the typical RCA-outs?

With newer televisions, are the audio-outs pretty limited? (I'd like to be flexible in changing out amps old-or-new and old amps don't usually take digital optical signals)....or am I missing something here?

p.s. I'm only interested in listening to the TV with two channel audio, no surround.....maybe a sub if needed for movies, etc.

Oerets
10-24-2009, 09:18 PM
MikeCh,
Went through the new TV hunt a little over a month ago. Ended up with a Samsung 50" Plasma due to needing to hook up to my vintage set up . We looked for a couple of weeks . Just had to put a newer receiver at the TV that had a remote control to feed my 1070 across the room.
Also make sure your DVD will hook up to the new TV.




Barney

T Tanner
10-30-2009, 07:01 PM
I'm running a Dynaco ST-70 with VTA mods done to it on the front speakers which are Magnaplaner MG-1C's. I'm using a Carver CT-27 preamp tuner, A Carver AV-405 amp for the center and rear speakers which are Velodyne CHT's. The sub is a Acustic Research 12 inch 300watt. The TV is a Sony Bravia 37 inch LCD. I have heard alot of HT setups but I like mine the best, I took me 15+ component changes to get to where I'm at. You know try this try that, but I like were I'm at now with my set up.

Anybody else running a tube amp??

cgcomputers
10-31-2009, 10:40 AM
I have my kenwood Integrated DC stereo amp hooked up to my Visio flat screen TV via the TVs flat screen analog audio out into the AUX input on the amp via DIY audio selection switch. I had surround sound setup once upon a time. It was cool for a bit, I just got tired of running tons of speaker cables and cables just to get that "surround" sound. I'm happy w/2 channel sound. What's that old saying, you only have 2 ears, so what's the need to have all of those speakers to capture that surround sound. Plus vintage audio gives the listener (audience) a warmer tone (tube audio). The components (amp) tends to last longer than most audio components built today, can be fortune to replace or repair the new stuff and some vintage gear. I'm a young (29 pushing 30) audio head, I've noticed that vintage stuff tends to last the test of time well beyond it's design. I still have the Kenwood KA-70 amp running now. No major repairs have been made, just some cleaning and she's still is running. Sorry for being long winded but putting my $.02 worth.

Wooferman93
11-01-2009, 04:33 PM
I have a 90's Pioneer reciever and the PS-8C's in the frond and NHT V.10's in the rear.

hrballenger
11-01-2009, 10:30 PM
I listen to my music and TV with a vintage two channel stereo. It matches my two channel ears; one left, one right.

tmad40blue
11-03-2009, 08:55 AM
We can route our TV sound through our Dynaco ST-410 with AR-3a's if we want to.

Our HT setup consists of KLH Sixes (A main), Boston T830s (B main) and A60 (center), EPI M60s (rear LR), and an Avid 60ab (rear center). They're driven by a Yamaha HT receiver from the early 2000s (before HDMI existed).

Jonesy09
11-05-2009, 12:39 AM
...or not. I can't remember after reading this whole thread. But it dosen't matter because, like many others, I will drift. :yes:

Right now I'm listening to TV on my living room HT system that is primarily for this purpose.

Rotel RSP-1068 pre/pro
Rotel RMB-991 on B&W 604s3 mains
Rotel RMB-985mkII on B&W LCR600 & LM1 (x4) surrounds
HSU STF-2

It sounds great.

It's great for TV, movies and music of the stereo and multi-channel variety. It's been purposely built to do all of those things well and remain somewhat user-friendly. In that room. Under those circumstances.

I have no doubt if I hooked a TV into my Yamaha CR-620 and EPI 150 system I would also love the sound. It certainly wouldn't have the same capabilities of the B&W/Rotel rig but for TV I would never ever complain about the SQ for that source.

Now the wild card.....

The basement system started out as a secondary TV/5.1 rig. It has gone through many iterations and while it is currently only 2-channel audio it will shortly be 2-channel audio/video (TV and DVD).

Adcom GFP-555II pre
Carver PM-1201 on Infinity RSII's
Carver PM-600 on HSU TN-1220 HO

It may be able to be qualified as 'vintage'. It will eventually be playing TV audio. Based on what I've been hearing on CD and LP through this system I see no reason why TV/DVD would be anything less than fantastic.

I was very tempted to run an all-vintage Infinity HT system. I even had a pair of RSe's for surrounds and was attempting to figure a proper center for this system. After careful consideration I felt it would've been over-kill for that system in this room. It will continue to be a 2.0 audio/video system.

I have no idea if this story captures the essence of the OP's query and I'm fairly certain it dosen't answer any question posed. But I'm confident it does nothing to provide a clear answer and simply goes to cement by solid position ON the fence regarding modern/vintage and/or 2-channel/HT systems and usage.

Take that.

:smoke:

JJJimmy
04-13-2013, 04:41 PM
Would you really be taking your sound from your TV? Mine has audio outs, but I feed sound from my DVD player and cable box to the audio system.

Sorry for dredging up an old post, but it comes closest to what I am searching for.

I recently upgraded my TV to a Vizio 60" LCD, and swapped in a new pair of Monitor Audio RX-6 speakers in my main vintage system (Yamaha B-2/C-2a). To hook it all together for Music/2-ch HT use, do I:

Cable to Cable box,
HDMI from Cable box to TV, and RCA from Cable Box to C-2a
HDMI from DVD player to TV, and RCA from DVD to C-2a

OR, HDMI's as stated and RCA's from TV to C-2a?

I want to make sure I run all necessary cables in the wall the first time!

Angler
04-14-2013, 07:28 AM
Sorry for dredging up an old post, but it comes closest to what I am searching for.

I recently upgraded my TV to a Vizio 60" LCD, and swapped in a new pair of Monitor Audio RX-6 speakers in my main vintage system (Yamaha B-2/C-2a). To hook it all together for Music/2-ch HT use, do I:

Cable to Cable box,
HDMI from Cable box to TV, and RCA from Cable Box to C-2a
HDMI from DVD player to TV, and RCA from DVD to C-2a

OR, HDMI's as stated and RCA's from TV to C-2a?

I want to make sure I run all necessary cables in the wall the first time!

In your case it probably doesn't matter.

I could be wrong on this because I've just started building my HT recently but I'll try to answer this and if I'm wrong maybe someone will correct me.
I used the Optical Output on the cable box to my Pioneer VSX-21 AVR so I could get DD 5.1 and DD+ 5.1 or whatever the audio was that was coming from my high definition cable box. If coming from the TV you would only get 2 channel stereo as most TV's only put out 2 channel stereo but the cable box would give you more options for the audio. If you only want 2.0 audio I guess it wouldn't matter which one you used to RCA to your C-2a.

I hope that helps and I also hope that if I'm wrong on this someone will chime in.

Al

JJJimmy
04-14-2013, 09:46 AM
Thanks, Al.

That was my first thought, too. Then, I got to wondering if the "shortest path" hook-ups would be better. Since the Yamaha is strictly RCA, I want to find the cleanest sound path possible.

tybrad
04-14-2013, 09:48 AM
SX-780, Minimus 7's and Energy XL-S8 sub here. Used for TV, but more with FM.

HarmanKardon
04-14-2013, 12:26 PM
2008 Grundig Vision 3 37-3821 + 1967 Bang & Olufsen Beomaster 900 + 1967 Dual CL 12 speakers. Nice for everything except music videos.

If I watch music videos I hook my Bose 901/III on the TV, via Sansui 990DB.

charles 1973
04-14-2013, 01:59 PM
I'm using a Pair of Minimus 7 Speakers on stands with the matching Realistic STA-7 10 wpc Stereo Reciever, and a PSB Center channel Speaker for my 32" Livingroom TV due to space constraints. While I could accommodate a bigger system, I'm pleased with the sound, and like the non intrusive aspect of the system. I have a much better system in my rec room, which doesn't get much use.

I have 2 Options with this set-up. I can Run the PSB Center Channel Speaker w/2 x 4" woofers for Mono using just the right channel of the Amp. Often the PSB provides much more coherent sound for movies than I get from the Minimus 7's. The EQ on the STA-7 Reciever makes those Minimus 7's sound like a decent pair of bookshelf Speakers to moderate SPL's which I use for Music and some TV Programs. Compared to the TV's speakers, it's a BIG improvement, and provides satisfying sound for both movies and Music for casual listening.

In my rec room I run a Mid-fi Onkyo 70 wpc AVR with a Recent Energy Reference Connoisseur 5.1 Speaker Package, and a Better Seperate Stereo System. For the most part I use the HT set-up for Video. Often I could use either system and get Very good results.

Sometimes however, with a well mastered DD 5.1 Movie Tract, the DD 5.1 System sounds incredible with SS effects than can't be duplicated, no matter how good a stereo system is, as well as the room shaking Bass (as in 21 hz @ -3db) from the Sub is down right scarry. For the casual observer (guests) that HT system sounds most impressive.

The Low level Resolving power of my Stereo System is why I use it for Music. Not only does it produce the scale of a live band, but it delineates each instrument and voice Better than the HT system. For some Video programs, I may use the Stereo instead, but I want to have that choice, and since I have the room, I might as well use it. Decent HT Receivers and Speakers can be purchased cheap on E-bay if you have the room.