Hi all.

A few minutes ago, i won an auction for a Garrard AT6 (not an AT-60). The seller says he (or she)'s been using it for years so I hope it arrives in good working order. I expect it to be a project, but not interested in a basket case. (Any of you happen to be "mixedkitsch"?)

This changer is going to be my dedicated mono lp/ 78 player.

What cartridges are available with changeable styli to play both mono LP's and 78's?

I understand the arm on the AT-6 allows for a variety of cartridge compliance ratings, so I'm not limited to the 3+ gram trackers.

My budget? As cheap as I can get away with at this point ($20-$60) The more mono-specific the better.

Thanks.

:lurk:
I've exactly the same question, though I'd extend the budget a bit... say $150 tops.

I use the Stanton 500 EE Mk. II with a Stanton D5127 2.7-mil 78 stylus. My turntable is an old Dual -- a 1214 with the aluminum platter from a scrapped 1218 -- and it works well as a 78 playback deck.

KAB http://www.kabusa.com has these in stock at reasonable prices. The cartridge is $34.95, including an elliptical LP stylus, and the 78 stylus is $49.00. If your budget goes higher, KAB also has the Stanton 681 EEE Mk. III cartridge with its 78 stylus. These sell for $129.95 for the cartridge and $69.95 for the stylus.

Hi all.

A few minutes ago, i won an auction for a Garrard AT6 (not an AT-60). The seller says he (or she)'s been using it for years so I hope it arrives in good working order. I expect it to be a project, but not interested in a basket case. (Any of you happen to be "mixedkitsch"?)

This changer is going to be my dedicated mono lp/ 78 player.

What cartridges are available with changeable styli to play both mono LP's and 78's?

I understand the arm on the AT-6 allows for a variety of cartridge compliance ratings, so I'm not limited to the 3+ gram trackers.

My budget? As cheap as I can get away with at this point ($20-$60) The more mono-specific the better.

Thanks.

Stanton 500 ("Broadcast Series" or one of it's direct descendants). You can find them on thrift store tables all the time. They make one to this day. I like the older ones best but they're all good. Originally designed when 78 rpm still appeared on most decks.
Sounds great on 78s too. Styli are cheap and plentiful.

Jim

Grado MC+ it's mono and you can get both stylus types for it as well as the FTR conical which i like better than the standard MC+ stylus.

I think the Grado is a good suggestion if you can stretch your budget, though I haven't heard any of their mono/78 cartridges.

What I have is the Ortofon D25 mono cartridge, which I believe is somewhere around $70. I like it a lot, although it's currently sitting in its case in my drawer because I don't listen to a lot of mono lps. Something to consider for mono, and it's a relatively high compliance cartridge if your tonearm is low or medium mass. This is something I confirmed through someone that works at Ortofon - they have great customer service.

EDIT: Hmm, the price must have gone up since I bought mine, even on lpgear it's $90.

Stanton 500. Stanton makes a .4 x .7 mil elliptical (D71EE), a .7 mil conical and a 2.7 mil conical for 78s (D5127).

Also aftermarket styli are available at kabusa.com, garage-a-records.com, and 78rpm.com which include 1.0 to 2.0 mil for lps and 45s and also 2.5 to 4.0 or even larger for 78 rpm playback.

Another vote for the Stanton 500.I originally started with it with the intention up moving up after awhile. I am in no hurry to upgrade now as it plays my old mono 45rpms and 78rpms very well.

A cheep option I currently use is an Audio Technica CN5625AL with a 78rpm stylus for 78's and its standard .7 conical for mono records. Its not the best but it sounds way better than my line contact Stylus on my old (and new) mono recordings.

Here (http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=cn5625w/78) is a link to a good price on one with a 78rpm stylus included at Garage-a-records.com.

-Nick

Another vote for the Stanton 500, specifically the 500 AL II as a great starter for your purposes. (Edit: apparently, Stanton has stopped making these in favor of the 500 v3, but it looks like there are still plenty of NOS AL II carts around in the $20-$30 range). The 500s have been around forever, easy to find styli for. Note that the Pickering V-15 is the same cart, and even though the Pickering styli look quite different, they are interchangeable. I own a KLH Model 20 stereo unit with a Garrard changer, and those came stock with the Pickering V-15. So Henry Kloss obviously thought that those carts were a good mate for a Garrard changer.

I've tried the Grado 78C, and it's fine. But if you want one cart and you want to change styli, you do NOT want a Grado. They are a bent cantilever waiting to happen even if you have the little stylus pulling tool. The Stantons are practically foolproof in comparison.

The 500 series is pretty much the standard for this type of application. You can't go wrong, in my opinion. Track the 78s around 5 grams to get the best sound. That stylus can take it. The AL II stylus is a conical which can track up to 5 grams so you can track those as heavy or as light as you want to (if your records are worn, heavier will sound better). And the conical won't give you as much tracking error as an elliptical, especially with a tonearm from a changer.

The sad part is that you'll find that the 78 stylus costs more than the entire brand new cartridge, even if you buy a generic. But that's the way the market is -- a lot more DJs out there than people who play 78s.

The next step up would also be a Stanton, the 680/681 with the D6807 stylus for your monos and a D6827 stylus for 78s. Those styli will be tougher to find, but that's the best sounding 78 cart I've ever heard, and I've heard quite a few.

Best of luck.

Anyone tried the eliptical 78 stylus offered by esoteric sounds? http://www.esotericsound.com/CartStyli.htm I was thinking of buying a Stanton 500 combo lp/elliptical.

I have an N78S Shure stylus that fits most of Shures most popular carts.I use it with my old M91ed.If you have one of the old Shures lying around,the stylus is $30 at Kabusa,or the whole cart,the M78S,is available there for $50.
Jimmy

Wow. This is all fantastic information. Good to have it laid out in one thread for future searchers, too.
Thanks everyone so far.

The Shure M78S wide-groove is at Amazon for $30. Can't beat that.

Well... you CAN beat that (if you have the right cart), as Amazon is also selling the N78S stylus for $11 right now.

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M78S-Groove-Monophonic-Cartridge/dp/B000246SZK/ref=pd_cp_MI_1

Just a note: I don't believe you want to use a 78 stylus on mono 33s, or vice versa.

Just a note: I don't believe you want to use a 78 stylus on mono 33s, or vice versa.
Yeh, I'm aware of this. I'm looking for a cart that stay mounted, but have the stylus swapped for whatever type of record I'm playing. Seems the Stanton 500 will be a good choice.

I'll have to use different EQ curves also. So I'll be looking for a switchable phono amp to be able to move from RIAA to a 78-appropriate curve, (or curves as the case may be.)

Phonopreamps.com sells a pre that can be switched from RIAA to a single 78 curve. I might end up trying one of these even though I know 78s had several different EQ curves.

The Shure M78S wide-groove is at Amazon for $30. Can't beat that.

Well... you CAN beat that (if you have the right cart), as Amazon is also selling the N78S stylus for $11 right now.

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M78S-Groove-Monophonic-Cartridge/dp/B000246SZK/ref=pd_cp_MI_1
I wonder if there is an LP stylus available for this cart.

Just a note: I don't believe you want to use a 78 stylus on mono 33s, or vice versa.

you ABSOULTELY do not want to use a 78RPM styli for mono LP's.

It looks like there's a few different LP stylus available for that cartridge series: N35S, N35X, SS35C, N25C and maybe a few more. Looks like they've got something that'll work with your AT-6.

And re-reading the thread it appears the N78S fits the older M91ed (per 2Duals above) so I guess you might be able to use a wide range of stylii.

Anyone tried the eliptical 78 stylus offered by esoteric sounds? http://www.esotericsound.com/CartStyli.htm I was thinking of buying a Stanton 500 combo lp/elliptical.

I have tried their 3.0 elliptical stylus (got it from garage-a-records.com). I'm thinking of trying their 3.5 mil in the near future. The 3.0 is OK and tracks well at 4 grams, but I just don't think the sound it produces is quite as good as the Stanton styli. But don't get me wrong, it's not a bad stylus.

My favorite 78 stylus for the Stanton 500 is a 3.3 mil truncated elliptical made by Expert Stylus (sold by kabusa.com and I think 78rpm.com also). They use actual Stanton stylus bodies and cantilevers. But they are over twice as expensive as those produced by Esoteric Sound.

Good info ke4jhj, thanks. I'm slowly working my way up to having a great vintage 78 playback system and when I get the rest worked out I will be trying out a few different sizes and shapes of stylus to get the most out of these old gems. Currently my favorite combo is an old idler turntable and a GE RPX cartridge.

I am very happy to see this thread. I have a Dual 1210 that I wanted to play 78's with. Boy there is a wealth of info here. Thanks to the OP and the contributers of this thread...........:banana:

The Stanton 500 was common fare on Garrards of that age. You can get a 78 stylus for it as well as conical and elliptical LP styli. Cheap too. The old A spherical stylus is fantastic on older LP pressings and 45 pressings and tracks lightly. You have versatility with a Stanton 500. Most professional archivists use them for 78 transfer work.

Anybody have any knowledge of how these styluses (styli?) read the mono groove modulations? I remember reading someplace that the Denon 102 (not cheap) was a superior mono-only cart/stylus (for the price) because it not only was the right size (1.0 mil?) but it also only responded to horizontal groove modulations or some such thing like that, therefore making it more authentic to the technology of the day. Anybody know if this is true? Do these other carts. also do this? And does it really matter?

As I am typing this, I seem to remember reading some of this discussion in a review for some really high end mono cart. in Stereophile, maybe.

Eh?

EDIT: The Denon 102 tip is 17 microns, which I guess rounds off to .7 mil. Aren't early mono records supposed to use a 1 mil tip?

Anybody have any knowledge of how these styluses (styli?) read the mono groove modulations? I remember reading someplace that the Denon 102 (not cheap) was a superior mono-only cart/stylus (for the price) because it not only was the right size (1.0 mil?) but it also only responded to horizontal groove modulations or some such thing like that, therefore making it more authentic to the technology of the day. Anybody know if this is true? Do these other carts. also do this? And does it really matter?

As I am typing this, I seem to remember reading some of this discussion in a review for some really high end mono cart. in Stereophile, maybe.

Eh?

EDIT: The Denon 102 tip is 17 microns, which I guess rounds off to .7 mil. Aren't early mono records supposed to use a 1 mil tip?

Don't read too much into that "early mono LPs need a larger stylus" stuff. In my experience, the .7 mil styli sound better than the 1.0 mil styli on older LPs, period.

And yes, the DL-102 doesn't read vertical motions, only lateral ones, which reduces the effect of surface noise. It also has a slight roll-off on the top end which reduces noise ever further. The DL-102s are outstanding for getting listenable information out of a beat-up mono record, and it changed my thrift-store record-buying habits because of it.