View Full Version : Pioneer pl-400 Anybody have one?


superdog
10-25-2009, 12:35 AM
Just wondering about thoughts or comments on this tt.Picked up a thrift job for $17.Scratched dust cover and an AT cart works but replays itself after each play.Is the AT the original type cart?

Balifly
10-25-2009, 01:05 AM
Most new Pioneer turntable comes with a Pioneer brand cartridge. A rebadged ones most likely, the PL-400 would have a Pioneer PC-150 cartridge. Which AT cartridge does it have now? The repeat button may need some cleaning internally.

larryderouin
10-25-2009, 01:19 AM
The AT is a replacement. Pioneer had their own line of carts they put on them. Carts were Mediocre at best. Part was PC-150.

The table is Middle of the line for that series. Even the 200(BOTL) is a decent deck, at least mine is. I don't know about the 400 but the 200 is prone to speed issues due to a dirty speed pot. Once you get the speed pot cleaned up, it's stable almost as good as a quartz lock, even tho it isn't.

Vinyl engine has the PL-400 owners manual. You should be able to fix the repeat problem. The repeat switch is more than likely gummed up. The grease is probably like the La Brea Tar Pits by now. Clean it good inside and lube. I've got the 200 and use the 400 manual. Not too much difference between them except for the repeat and record size features for Auto start which the 200 doesn't have.

The next series IIRC is the PL-2 to PL-9. I have PL-4, which would be equivalent to the 200 in features. BUT! The PL-4 is such a lightweight compared to the 200. The platter is 1/3 the weight, the total weight is about 1/3. The top plate/cover in the PL-4 is thinner plastic, the gimbel for the tonearm is cheesy, and the whole thing looks like a kids toy.

I'd keep the PL-400. It's dependable, can take most any cart, (I have anywhere from a 400V.3 Pickering, 500 Stanton/Pickering, V15 Pickerings, V-15-III SHURE, M55 Shure.) and it's decent looking to boot. But if you ever want to get rid of it, I'll be 1st in line! :D


Larry

superdog
10-25-2009, 12:08 PM
The AT is a replacement. Pioneer had their own line of carts they put on them. Carts were Mediocre at best. Part was PC-150.

The table is Middle of the line for that series. Even the 200(BOTL) is a decent deck, at least mine is. I don't know about the 400 but the 200 is prone to speed issues due to a dirty speed pot. Once you get the speed pot cleaned up, it's stable almost as good as a quartz lock, even tho it isn't.

Vinyl engine has the PL-400 owners manual. You should be able to fix the repeat problem. The repeat switch is more than likely gummed up. The grease is probably like the La Brea Tar Pits by now. Clean it good inside and lube. I've got the 200 and use the 400 manual. Not too much difference between them except for the repeat and record size features for Auto start which the 200 doesn't have.

The next series IIRC is the PL-2 to PL-9. I have PL-4, which would be equivalent to the 200 in features. BUT! The PL-4 is such a lightweight compared to the 200. The platter is 1/3 the weight, the total weight is about 1/3. The top plate/cover in the PL-4 is thinner plastic, the gimbel for the tonearm is cheesy, and the whole thing looks like a kids toy.

I'd keep the PL-400. It's dependable, can take most any cart, (I have anywhere from a 400V.3 Pickering, 500 Stanton/Pickering, V15 Pickerings, V-15-III SHURE, M55 Shure.) and it's decent looking to boot. But if you ever want to get rid of it, I'll be 1st in line! :D


Larry

Thanks for the info.I'll check out the Vinyl Engine for the manual.Will it show me how to access the gummed up switch?It's much heavier than it appears which tells me quality.

P. Shivers
10-25-2009, 12:29 PM
I still have my PL-400 that I purchased new in high school. My daughter uses it now. It still works fine, and has never had any issues. I have a Stanton 681-EEES cartridge on mine. The PL-400 is a quartz-locked TT.

jleon92f
10-25-2009, 12:30 PM
Just wondering about thoughts or comments on this tt.Picked up a thrift job for $17.Scratched dust cover and an AT cart works but replays itself after each play.Is the AT the original type cart?

Hi, I have one that is doing the same thing. I opened mine up and it looks like there is a bushing or something worn out.:scratch2:

Let me know how you make out.

Thanks,
John.:music::D

larryderouin
10-25-2009, 12:43 PM
On the gear UNDER the motor, there is a slide that engages the spindle to start the repeat/cut cycle. This slide gums up over the years. Get it apart and spray it with WD-40 to break it loose, make sure it's free, and spray a couple drops of machine oil on the slide. Also the long bent aluminum pivot rod, which actuates the slide from the tonearm area, will gum up and hang in the engaged position.

Free these two up and I think 90% of your problems will go away.

Larry

boreas
10-25-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm using a PL-400 in my second system with an AT-13eA. It, and the PL-400X I used to have, have been very satisfactory. I never had a lick of trouble from either one. My only quibble would be that they are fairly "jog sensitive". They require careful isolation from vibration.

Note: this may vary significantly from one unit to another. The PL-400 I still have is nowhere near as sensitive as the PL-400X I no longer have. That being said, neither was unacceptable.

John

TSheaZ28
10-25-2009, 03:15 PM
My main TT is a PL-400. I bought it about a year ago, and have not had any issues with it. I think this is a great intro TT for someone that wants to get into vinyl. Easy to use and set-up.

superdog
10-26-2009, 01:19 AM
Thanks for the input.It appears it is a decent table.Like I said when I picked it up I said "oh yeah".P.Shivers statement about buying in high school and never any issues.Wow!I am going to the VE for the manual.Need to find my password.Just one more question on this.How do you access the problem areas.Under the platter or underneath?Thanks.

larryderouin
10-26-2009, 11:06 PM
Underneath.

TAKE THE CARTRIDGE OFF BEFORE ATTEMPTING BELOW!!!!!

1.Remove the Tonearm Weight.
2.remove the Tonearm weight shaft (3mm hex wrench).
3.Flip over and remove the 4 feet. DON'T Mix them up. Keep orientation same. Fron Left to Front Left, etc.
4.Flip back over and lift front up just enough to undo the 2 pin and 5 pin eectrical connectors. Disconnect the strain relief for the L& R RCA's. Slide leads out of the slot in the bottom.
5. Continue lift from the front and start sliding the top forward to clear the tonearm.
6. Flip the top upside down and set aside on a towel for now.
7. Looking at the motor board you'll see a bunch of screws on the perimeter. Find the one's with the larger heads (3). They will be at about 1,5,and 9 oclock on the board. They will be about 2-1/2" long. If you get a short one put it back in. Once you get the 3 large ones out, lift the motor board up and forward.
8.) The main gear is accessable now. You'll see a stamped metal assy on the gear and a "V" or checkmark shaped "ACTUATOR" arm going to the right and under the tonearm assy.
These two are what i was talking about earlier. clean and lube.

You will need to remove the tonearm assy to remove the actuator arm. 3 screws again, 10,1,and 6 oclock. Note the off / on switch cam and actuator pin on the tonearm assy how it fits together. If this is NOT put back exactly as pulled out, it will not turn off and the tonearm will jam up.

It sounds worse that it actually is. It's rather easy. Just lay out everything in order and if you're not sure about something take a couple of pictures before taking it apart.

Larry

superdog
10-27-2009, 01:14 AM
Wow it does sound pretty complicated.You spelled it out pretty good though.Thank you

jleon92f
10-27-2009, 07:32 AM
Underneath.

TAKE THE CARTRIDGE OFF BEFORE ATTEMPTING BELOW!!!!!

1.Remove the Tonearm Weight.
2.remove the Tonearm weight shaft (3mm hex wrench).
3.Flip over and remove the 4 feet. DON'T Mix them up. Keep orientation same. Fron Left to Front Left, etc.
4.Flip back over and lift front up just enough to undo the 2 pin and 5 pin eectrical connectors. Disconnect the strain relief for the L& R RCA's. Slide leads out of the slot in the bottom.
5. Continue lift from the front and start sliding the top forward to clear the tonearm.
6. Flip the top upside down and set aside on a towel for now.
7. Looking at the motor board you'll see a bunch of screws on the perimeter. Find the one's with the larger heads (3). They will be at about 1,5,and 9 oclock on the board. They will be about 2-1/2" long. If you get a short one put it back in. Once you get the 3 large ones out, lift the motor board up and forward.
8.) The main gear is accessable now. You'll see a stamped metal assy on the gear and a "V" or checkmark shaped "ACTUATOR" arm going to the right and under the tonearm assy.
These two are what i was talking about earlier. clean and lube.

You will need to remove the tonearm assy to remove the actuator arm. 3 screws again, 10,1,and 6 oclock. Note the off / on switch cam and actuator pin on the tonearm assy how it fits together. If this is NOT put back exactly as pulled out, it will not turn off and the tonearm will jam up.

It sounds worse that it actually is. It's rather easy. Just lay out everything in order and if you're not sure about something take a couple of pictures before taking it apart.

Larry

Hi Larry,

I am working on mine now, is this pin supposed to look like this?

Thanks,
John

larryderouin
10-28-2009, 01:29 AM
How about an uncropped pic.

Actually it's plastic. If you look under the tonearm, you see and "X" shaped affair with a pin pointing straight down off to the left of the tonearm at about 9:00. It fit's into a "V" shaped rotating switch actuator that turns the power switch off and on. The pin moves in an arc with the tonearm. It moves from 9:00 to about 12:00. When the tonearm returns it will end up in the "V" and rotate the "V" which will engage the switch shutting the power OFF.

LARRY.

jleon92f
10-28-2009, 07:24 AM
How about an uncropped pic.

Actually it's plastic. If you look under the tonearm, you see and "X" shaped affair with a pin pointing straight down off to the left of the tonearm at about 9:00. It fit's into a "V" shaped rotating switch actuator that turns the power switch off and on. The pin moves in an arc with the tonearm. It moves from 9:00 to about 12:00. When the tonearm returns it will end up in the "V" and rotate the "V" which will engage the switch shutting the power OFF.

LARRY.

Hi, 1st off thanks for the help. Here is another picture, looks like a metal lever.

Thanks,
John.:music::D

larryderouin
10-29-2009, 01:15 AM
Ok that looks like the power switch actuator. It's different than on the 200. You are gonna have to dig deeper to access the cycle mechanism.

See the yellowish gear in the back, under the motor? That's where you need to get. Looks like 4-5 scres to get the tonearm housing off, then 3-4 to get the motor off.

Then take another pic to post up so I can see what you have.

Larry

jleon92f
10-29-2009, 07:27 AM
Ok that looks like the power switch actuator. It's different than on the 200. You are gonna have to dig deeper to access the cycle mechanism.

See the yellowish gear in the back, under the motor? That's where you need to get. Looks like 4-5 scres to get the tonearm housing off, then 3-4 to get the motor off.

Then take another pic to post up so I can see what you have.

Larry

Thanks,
Will Do..:thmbsp:

John.:music::D

superdog
10-31-2009, 11:24 PM
Just wanted to say I found out there is nothing wrong with this tt.I thought it was repeating itself.Turns out I was using the start/repeat button to turn it on.Sorry but I am still learning about tts.I was hesitant to take apart as I don't know and never tore into one as much as what was recommended to fix.Works perfect and sounds very good.

denalae
09-21-2010, 08:55 PM
Hello!
I just got one of these from a thrift store for 15 dollars. It has a problem with maintaining speed. About every 5-15 seconds it slows down for around 1 second. Other than that, it works fine.

I took it apart and sprayed deoxit into the speed select switch and worked it about 200 times. I didn't really see any other mechanical switches or pots to clean.

I do have one problem when putting it back together. Please see attached picture (copied from jleon). I don't know where to attach the part that with the red square around it. Can somebody help me out with this, please?

Thanks!

ussexplorer
09-21-2010, 09:08 PM
Did you take that part off or off of something? If not it looks like a plastic swing with tenson spring. Well whatever it is called and when you place it back together. Hopefully it will fall into the right place. Like a reed sensor or something.

Josh

denalae
09-21-2010, 09:20 PM
Yeah I kinda had to pop it off to take the TT apart, but I couldn't really see what it was on.

I put the table back together, and it turns fine, but the clicking sound before the arm swings into position is really loud. Not sure if that's normal.

--EDIT-- Played a record on it. If I hit the automatic play, it makes a crazy loud click, and the arm moves about 1/3 of the way into the record.. something is definitely wrong now. On the plus side, the random slow down seems to be fixed now :)

larryderouin
09-22-2010, 09:37 AM
Yeah I kinda had to pop it off to take the TT apart, but I couldn't really see what it was on.

I put the table back together, and it turns fine, but the clicking sound before the arm swings into position is really loud. Not sure if that's normal.

--EDIT-- Played a record on it. If I hit the automatic play, it makes a crazy loud click, and the arm moves about 1/3 of the way into the record.. something is definitely wrong now. On the plus side, the random slow down seems to be fixed now :)

There's not supposed to be a click. Check on the motor assy for a groove or similar that the shaft should engage. Did you download the manual?

I sold my 200 a couple months ago so the only thing I have to go by is the manual now. I'll take a look and see what I can see.

Larry

larryderouin
09-22-2010, 10:00 AM
RE: shaft circled in red.
Is that a "BEVEL" on the end? Is there a corresponding "bevel" on the motor assy?
Move the Record SIZE SELECTOR. Does the shaft move with it? If so then you need to figure out the rest of the mechanism. It may be what's causing the click.

Where the H#$^ is Pustelniakr when you need him?!?!?!? :D

I'm outta ideas here.

Larry

boreas
09-22-2010, 12:04 PM
I wish I could help with your initial question. Hopefully, someone will. I did see one problem you didn't ask about so perhaps you already know. Just in case, here goes.

I've circled in blue the area where the problem is. The spring attached to the white plastic finger needs to be moved to the other () side of the post molded into the cover so that it causes the finger to move back after the Start/Cut button is released.

John

denalae
09-22-2010, 04:25 PM
I downloaded the manual but it doesn't say anything about the inside parts.

I think it might be the size selector mechanism now that you mention it. I can't figure out how to attach it to the stuff on the bottom half of the TT (><) The end of it has a spring wire type thing that is shaped kinda like a Z

Jonny Ramone
09-22-2010, 05:45 PM
It's for the size selector. I picked up one of these recently. It's a mechanical stop. Set it for 12"(I think). You want to have that as far forward(Toward the switches) as possible. During start-up, a mechanism moves toward that arm/bracket. I bent my wire a little when dis-assembling, and had to bend it so the tip was extended as far as the plastic arm/bracket. If you sweep that metal start-up shaft on the right( Move that lever left/sideways), and spin the motor shaft, you can cycle it, and watch it work. It took me three tries to get it back together. If you fool with the levers, you should figure it out.

Jonny Ramone
09-22-2010, 05:47 PM
The size selector doesn't attach to anything, I believe.

Jonny Ramone
09-22-2010, 05:55 PM
I wish I could help with your initial question. Hopefully, someone will. I did see one problem you didn't ask about so perhaps you already know. Just in case, here goes.

I've circled in blue the area where the problem is. The spring attached to the white plastic finger needs to be moved to the other () side of the post molded into the cover so that it causes the finger to move back after the Start/Cut button is released.

John
The blue circled area looks OK to me - pretty sure mine looked like that. The Start-up mechanism shaft goes in between that wire and plastic, in the groove. The start-up button pushes that to the left, I think. Your wire in the red square I think is fine. Mine was crooked, and the size selector didn't initially work.

denalae
09-22-2010, 06:03 PM
*disclaimer* That picture is NOT a from mine. I was just using it to highlight the area I was talking about. It's from a previous poster.

On that note: Jonny, are you sure it doesn't attach to anything? I remember having to pop the wire off of the little black bracket thing on the bottom half when I took it apart. I will fiddle around with it..hopefully I can get it working. I don't really mind manually starting it that much, but auto start is nice :music:

Also, thanks to everyone for the help so far! Good turnout :D

Jonny Ramone
09-22-2010, 06:18 PM
I believe the size mechanism itself, cycles out, and contacts the spring, which holds it in place. I think that spring drops down when re-assembling. I don't THINK mine was attached to anything, and did not re-attach it when I put it back together. I also just double checked it's operation( I can't easily swap tables with my system) and ALL mechanical functions are working correctly.

Jonny Ramone
09-22-2010, 06:22 PM
" I remember having to pop the wire off of the little black bracket thing on the bottom half when I took it apart." THAT sounds like the start-up lever. The pics above show were that should go. Maybe that got stuck when dis-assembling.

denalae
09-22-2010, 06:26 PM
that's the thing though..I absolutely remember prying the wire off of the black piece with a screwdriver when I took it apart the first time. And now when I hit the play button it makes a super loud clicking sound and goes to around the 7" record mark..

Thanks so much for your help Jonny! You are awesome :)

Jonny Ramone
09-22-2010, 06:29 PM
When you figure out HOW it works, you'll be able to fix it. Like I said, it took me 3 tries.

denalae
09-22-2010, 06:36 PM
Haha yeah..I just wish the damn top piece was translucent. I can't really figure out what's going on. I'm usually pretty good with reverse-engineering type stuff but yeah.. I can't really figure out why they would put half of the components on the top and half on the bottom. That makes no sense to me. I'm actually thinking about modding this thing so that the top shell has NOTHING mounted to it.

My unit might be missing some screws. The only things holding the top to the bottom are the feet screws, and those don't keep the halves together tightly (had to take the rubber off because it was so deteriorated)....bah humbug

Jonny Ramone
09-22-2010, 06:42 PM
My rubber was bad also- may wrap tape or something at some point. I think the feet are the only screws, too. Some body HAS a translucent topped PL-400 here.

denalae
09-22-2010, 06:45 PM
Ah man I wanna see that! :D

boreas
09-22-2010, 07:34 PM
My unit might be missing some screws. The only things holding the top to the bottom are the feet screws, and those don't keep the halves together tightly (had to take the rubber off because it was so deteriorated)....bah humbug

Nope! That's it. Rigidly mounting the plastic top to the metal chassis would cancel out the suspension. And that rubber always goes away - grumble, grumble.

boreas
09-22-2010, 07:45 PM
Ah man I wanna see that! :D

Voila!

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=208148&d=1272660466

John

Jonny Ramone
09-22-2010, 08:51 PM
Do you have this? Looks like a promotional model.

boreas
09-22-2010, 09:03 PM
Do you have this? Looks like a promotional model.

It does, doesn't it? Like the plexi HPM-100s. No, it's not mine. It was posted by member Westy56 in another thread. Maybe it's his/hers.

John

larryderouin
09-22-2010, 09:37 PM
And if the tonearm was moved you could see where that rod is hooked to and how.

Damn that's nice.

Larry

denalae
09-22-2010, 09:41 PM
Holy cow! That thing is amazing!

Update: I messed around with it some more. I still can't figure out HOW it works, but I pushed the size selector to 7" and put the spring wire behind the upper tab on that black metal piece that slides. It doesn't make the loud clicking sound anymore. It works pretty much how it's supposed to, EXCEPT if the size selector is on 7" the arm goes to the 10" position. If the selector is on 10", it goes to the 12" position. If the selector is on 12", it doesn't make it to the record. lol.. I guess I will just keep it on the 10" position since I can't figure out the mechanism.

q89747
03-12-2011, 06:22 PM
Am considering a PL-400 myself. Found one used, with a new needle (don't know what cartridge is in there yet though), for $100. Worth it?

larryderouin
03-12-2011, 06:32 PM
It's a little on the high end, but if it's in very good condition with a new stylus, and a decent cartridge, I'd seriously think about it. Up to you man.

boreas
03-12-2011, 06:59 PM
It's a little on the high end, but if it's in very good condition with a new stylus, and a decent cartridge, I'd seriously think about it. Up to you man.

+1! I've had several PL-400s and I like them. With a good cartridge they're very capable turntables. That being said, I think $100 is all the money. At that price I'd say it would need to be complete, in top condition and have a cartridge and stylus you'll be happy with for a long time.

John

q89747
03-26-2011, 01:00 PM
Empire cart, new needle. And it's now down to $90.
'Full-auto': does that mean I can't go manual if I want to?

Westy56
03-26-2011, 01:31 PM
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=208148&d=1272660466


Steve

boreas
03-26-2011, 01:41 PM
Empire cart, new needle. And it's now down to $90.
'Full-auto': does that mean I can't go manual if I want to?

Still a little high, I think. I bought one at GW for $15.00 (no cartridge) and another at a yard sale for $20.00 (Denon DL-80A).

As I recall, that particular Pioneer can only be operated in full auto mode. Other Pioneers can be switched to "Manual" but that actually makes them auto return and you still have to push the Start button. Some - if not all - Technics full autos can be operated as auto return just by cuing the arm manually.

John

boreas
03-26-2011, 01:44 PM
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=208148&d=1272660466


Steve

I beat you to it, Steve! I ripped your photo off and posted it at post #38. ;)

Someone asked me at the time whether the table was mine. I said "no" and mentioned that you had posted that photo in an earlier thread.

Is that table yours?

John

boreas
03-26-2011, 02:03 PM
Oh, and another thing about PL-400s (and PL-300s, PL-200s and PL-100s). The arm stub that carries the counterweight is plastic on those guys. I saw in another thread a photo of a table where the stub had snapped off.

The same thing happened to one of mine. One day I noticed the arm stub and counterweight just quietly lying there on the plinth. Surprised the heck put of me, I can tell ya!

Anyway, the fix was pretty easy. I took a small drill bit, maybe 3/32", and drilled out the stub about 1/4" in. then I drilled out the other side of the break, the part of the stub that snaps(?) into the pivot. I drilled gently until the bit went all the way through.

Then I took a broken drill bit of the same size that I had lying around and used it as a pin. I glued it into the pivot side of the break, making sure that the pin didn't interfere with the arm motion. I then applied a little glue to the protruding portion of the pin and slipped the stub over it.

Easy peasy! The repaired stub, with a hardened steel pin in it, was stronger than the original and, assuming you center your holes correctly, it's an absolutely undetectable repair.

Sorry there are no pics but the job's probably simple enough that they're not necessary.

John

Westy56
03-26-2011, 02:05 PM
I beat you to it, Steve! I ripped your photo off and posted it at post #38. ;)

Someone asked me at the time whether the table was mine. I said "no" and mentioned that you had posted that photo in an earlier thread.

Is that table yours?

John

Yes it is. :yes: Sorry about the redundancy


Steve

boreas
03-26-2011, 02:12 PM
Yes it is. :yes: Sorry about the redundancy


Steve

Lucky man! Don't worry about the redundancy. It's a seriously cool piece of tech and well worth another view.

How'd you score that thing?!?!?!

John

Westy56
03-26-2011, 02:39 PM
Lucky man! Don't worry about the redundancy. It's a seriously cool piece of tech and well worth another view.

How'd you score that thing?!?!?!

John

Estate sale item. It had a good cartridge on it (can't remember) .


Steve

superdog
03-27-2011, 03:34 AM
+1! I've had several PL-400s and I like them. With a good cartridge they're very capable turntables. That being said, I think $100 is all the money. At that price I'd say it would need to be complete, in top condition and have a cartridge and stylus you'll be happy with for a long time.

John

That's what I feel.For $100 it should be top shape.It is a pretty decent tt.

cnolanh
07-11-2011, 08:22 AM
The PL-400 can indeed be started manually by moving the tonearm into place. It will auto-return at the end of the side, of course.

I'm manually starting mine at the moment. After disassembly for cleaning, I've got everything back working properly except for the size selector. In auto the arm always goes to the 10" size no matter what the selector is on. As others discussed above, I think on my table the size selector lever *was* hooked by its springy thin wire to the metal slider under the tonearm mechanism. But I'm going to have to take it all apart again to figure it out...

This thread was really helpful -- thanks!

Nolan

Westy56
07-11-2011, 08:31 AM
The PL-400 can indeed be started manually by moving the tonearm into place. It will auto-return at the end of the side, of course.

I'm manually starting mine at the moment. After disassembly for cleaning, I've got everything back working properly except for the size selector. In auto the arm always goes to the 10" size no matter what the selector is on. As others discussed above, I think on my table the size selector lever *was* hooked by its springy thin wire to the metal slider under the tonearm mechanism. But I'm going to have to take it all apart again to figure it out...

This thread was really helpful -- thanks!

Nolan

Good thing they are easy to take apart. :yes:

Good luck


Steve

cnolanh
07-11-2011, 08:47 AM
Good thing they are easy to take apart. :yes:

Good luck


Steve

Thanks, Steve. :) And just when I had gotten my kitchen table cleared of turntable parts...

splinter6
05-24-2012, 11:45 PM
What is a good replacement for the rubber parts for the feet? Im thinking about using some rubber washers, does anyone have experience in replacing the rubber isolators with washers?

Also upon pulling my pl400 apart, I broke the size selector slider, the little bits of plastic that hold it to the metal plate. I glued them back on though.

But when I reassemle it how do I hook the wire back on to the other metal slider? does it hook itself back on?

splinter6
05-25-2012, 09:50 PM
What is a good replacement for the rubber parts for the feet? Im thinking about using some rubber washers, does anyone have experience in replacing the rubber isolators with washers?

Also upon pulling my pl400 apart, I broke the size selector slider, the little bits of plastic that hold it to the metal plate. I glued them back on though.

But when I reassemle it how do I hook the wire back on to the other metal slider? does it hook itself back on?

I got the size selection slider wire hooked on to the sub chassis part finally after some frustrating fiddeling.

But my question about the feet still stands.

boreas
05-26-2012, 12:26 PM
I got the size selection slider wire hooked on to the sub chassis part finally after some frustrating fiddeling.

But my question about the feet still stands.

Based on the wording of your question, I'm thinking that the isolators on yours have virtually disappeared. It happens. Originally, they weren't just washers under the spring but basically covers that surrounded the springs and damped out the vibrations, rather than just isolating it.

There are several threads here devoted to various fixes for this but I can't remember what those fixes were. I seem to recall that the threads were relative to this problem on the PL-600 but the system and the repair would be the same. I think, though, that most or all of them involved repair and it sounds like you'll need a method of replacement.

I have this idea in the back of my head that, if I ever get another of these tables I'll try just dipping the springs in Tool Dip. That would give them a flexible covering that would do, (I think) a good job of damping without changing the spring rate. If it doesn't work, the Tool Dip can be removed with naphtha.

Oh, and a tip: if you're going to remove these springs, identify and mark which one goes where. Turntables often use different spring rates at each corner because the turntable's center of mass isn't centered.

John

splinter6
05-26-2012, 10:02 PM
Based on the wording of your question, I'm thinking that the isolators on yours have virtually disappeared. It happens. Originally, they weren't just washers under the spring but basically covers that surrounded the springs and damped out the vibrations, rather than just isolating it.

There are several threads here devoted to various fixes for this but I can't remember what those fixes were. I seem to recall that the threads were relative to this problem on the PL-600 but the system and the repair would be the same. I think, though, that most or all of them involved repair and it sounds like you'll need a method of replacement.

I have this idea in the back of my head that, if I ever get another of these tables I'll try just dipping the springs in Tool Dip. That would give them a flexible covering that would do, (I think) a good job of damping without changing the spring rate. If it doesn't work, the Tool Dip can be removed with naphtha.

Oh, and a tip: if you're going to remove these springs, identify and mark which one goes where. Turntables often use different spring rates at each corner because the turntable's center of mass isn't centered.

John

Ah yes thanks for the advice. Yes the insulators are pretty bad but I taped them up so they wont fall apart anymore, some of them were torn in half , don't know how that would affect the sound but it doesn't seem to, at least with the lower end cartridge I have I can't notice a difference.

I read somewhere that the insulator around the springs doesn't do anything but that the leg/foot whatever needs to be dampened/isolated from the ends of the springs that's why I'm thinking rubber washers should help.

Regarding the springs yeah I learned that mistake from opening up my pl100 but luckily the pl400 only has one different spring out of all 4. Although the springs have lost their tension and are sagging badly anyway.

I found an online parts store that I can apparently order new springs and rubber insulators for the pl400 but all up including shipping for 4 of them would be $80 :/

chicks
09-15-2012, 09:17 PM
Just picked one up at the GW, $10. Working well, but glad to have found this informative thread.

http://chicksolutions.com/ak/Pioneer/PL-400/1347756377506.jpg

chicks
09-17-2012, 01:16 AM
Moved it indoors today, and discovered it wasn't quite the bargain I thought. :sigh: Speed is fluctuating during play, at random intervals. Can watch the strobe lights flicker as it warbles. Also started making a scraping sound, looks like the springs are worn, so it's bottoming out.

Will have to put it back on the bench and clean the speed switch. Not sure what to do about the springs. For now, a thin piece of foam under the bottom is lifting the suspended chassis enough to prevent the scraping.

There's a reason I've stuck with the old-fashoned but utterly reliable Empire...

Hendrix416
09-17-2012, 03:48 AM
Moved it indoors today, and discovered it wasn't quite the bargain I thought. :sigh: Speed is fluctuating during play, at random intervals. Can watch the strobe lights flicker as it warbles. Also started making a scraping sound, looks like the springs are worn, so it's bottoming out.

Will have to put it back on the bench and clean the speed switch. Not sure what to do about the springs. For now, a thin piece of foam under the bottom is lifting the suspended chassis enough to prevent the scraping.

There's a reason I've stuck with the old-fashoned but utterly reliable Empire...

I used to have the 400 and it recently started to warble every once in a while. I since sold it and now have my Quadraflex TT as my main vinyl rig.

chicks
09-23-2012, 08:03 PM
OK, cleaned the 33/45 speed selector switch, which appears to have fixed the speed control issue (knock on wood). The strobe still fluctuates when the arm is cycling, so I'm not convinced it's 100% fixed, but it's stayed steady through an entire LP side so far.

As for the scraping issue, I thought the springs needed to be stretched a bit. Wrong. That made it worse. They actually needed to be compressed. Easy to do, just grab the largest loop with pliers and bend down toward the coil. Got it so it was floating just right - until I put a record on, which added enough weight to start the scraping. :sigh: Will try again next weekend.

http://chicksolutions.com/ak/Kenwood/600/1348116654173.jpg

The rubber foot dampers were shredded, so left them off, except for the part around the largest coil, which was intact on all four feet.

During one of the several flips, I forgot to remove the counterweight. Big mistake. The weight snapped the plastic piece that it hangs on. Had to drill both ends, fill with a tiny broken drill bit, and glue. Works, but please remember to remove the counterweight if you work on one of these!

Yamahaha
12-17-2013, 10:57 AM
resurrect ... recently bought a PL-400 and its been a very good table. speed seems rock steady. Came with a Stanton Gold 500 and gold stylus. very nice table. Its currently beating my other much more expensive tables for my favor. Some cheap parts but hey - performance is what matters.