while I have always believed sound to be truly subjective to an individuals specific liking and STILL do, I wonder if anyone might try to convince me why I should give up my beloved CS-99A's for HPM-100's ... I'm 60 yrs old and wisdom has shown me over the years that hype, advertising and "label-worship" can drive buying trends within consumer groups..rather than one arriving at his.her own opinion.... If one person buys a Hula-Hoop then very quickly society in general is convinced they all have to have one... how's that for a time capsulated observation... so, while my ears are totally happy and comfortable with my CS-99A's, I do wonder about happy "HP" owners who are convinced HPM100's are THE ONLY acceptable listening device ever made... not trying to create or perpetuate any arguments, I'm just curious if I might be missing something or not.... My most enjoyed music is 60's and 70's rock, but I like everything except hiphop and rap.. (grates on my spinal cord) my 99a's are driven with either my sansui 8080 or my 9090 and both deliver MY music exactly the way I've always remembered it.EXACTLY/ALWAYS !!! .. Any variation in this "recipe" and my ears tell MY brain it's just NOT quite right... kinda like comfort food in that any recipe varying from "mom's" meatloaf is okay, just not right on the money..... what say ye all ???? :scratch2:

The only way to know would be to listen to a pair. That is the only real way to tell if a pair of speakers floats your boat.

I happen to have both the Hpm 100s and the CS-99As and an 8080DB. I prefer the CS-99As for a variety of reasons, but neither pair is on my keep list. I think that what you get used to hearing becomes right for you. I got a pair of Mach Twos when I was in my early twenties and they were my main speakers for a decade. It was a while before anything else sounded as good to me.

The only way to know would be to listen to a pair. That is the only real way to tell if a pair of speakers floats your boat.

thanks...... a good, sensible and only logical response I can imagine..... I forgot to add that IMHO CS-99A's are what speakers are SUPPOSED to look like to my time-warped brain with grilles on or off...... the HPM100's look way too much like they belong in the league with 80's BPC but that is a poor judgemental ignorant opinion I cannot shake free from....

I happen to have both the Hpm 100s and the CS-99As and an 8080DB. I prefer the CS-99As for a variety of reasons, but neither pair is on my keep list. I think that what you get used to hearing becomes right for you. I got a pair of Mach Twos when I was in my early twenties and they were my main speakers for a decade. It was a while before anything else sounded as good to me. I heartily agree with you and we seem to share that same philosophy....it's that "comfort-food" syndrome again...... If I "SEE" a pair of speakers driven by a rcvr/amp that doesnt charm my eyes first off, then my brain just shuts down as to the quality of audio that may be coming my way... how stupidly pre-programmed am I huh ??? "shopping" for audio equipment "visually" has always presented a dilemna to me.....

I have read reviews online from people that say they really complement each other. My brother has a pair of each stacked on top of each other and I have to agree. Although you will never get my sansui's from me. If they are really nice to me I might leave them to someone in my will.
Regards. Ron.

If you like 99a's keep them. I would give the edge to the 100's but they are
total different animals. I have owned both and a/b tested them side by side.
The 99a's have a nice vintage concert hall effect about them and sound
great on 50's and 60's rock and country that does not have much bass.
The 99a's have too big of a woofer for that size cabinet and are bass shy
and hot on the upper end with all those small drivers and horns ect...
The hpm 100's love rock music and either need to be cranked loud or have
about 100wpc pushing them to really make that woofer shine. The woofer
has a much warmer tone about it than the 99a's but the 100's are harsh on the
upper end to my ears also. I ended up ewaving my hpm 100's and now the
harshness is gone with incredible detail on the highs with the same great
warm bass the hpm's are known for.
I would suggest building some ewaves but not with the 99a woofer. Much
better woofers are out there for cheap. I also built a pair of ewaves with
the 10" dayton classic woofer and it is way better sound than the cs 99a's
but thats just my experience and I know every one has their own thoughts on
speakers and matchups ect....

"Different horses for different courses" as they say. The HPM100's might be a bit aggressive for you if you like the CS99a's. but purchased at the right $$ you can always find a buyer for the HPM100's. IMHO
Regards,
Jim

I'm kinda in the same boat. I have a pair of CS-99A's and I really like them on 60-70's rock and blues but I also like some of the newer really hard rock too. I've been looking for HPM-100's to see if they are better suited to that kind of music. The 99A's sound really good on some music, but not all of the music I like. I remember the HPM-100's from 20+ years ago when we listened to AC/DC a lot and they sounded great for that kinda music. A friend also had Cerwin Vega speakers which sounded similar but still I preferred the HPM-100's.

I really don't care for the kabuki look of the HPM's even though I do have a pair of HPM-1100's and they are pretty impressive for really loud hard rock. But I'm like you, I really like the wood lattice grilles and own 3 pairs with that look. The CS-99A's, Sansui SP-3200's and a small pair of Coral's all with the lattice grilles. If I could put CS grilles on HPM's I might really like them. :thmbsp:

I'll eventually get a pair of HPM-100's but I have a feeling I won't like them as much as I did 20 years ago. But 20 years ago I would not have liked the look of the CS line of speakers. A friend had a pair of Realistic speakers with brown fabric grilles and I used to call those grampa speakers. It's funny how tastes change over time. Now that I'm the grampa...

I think a pair of each would be a nice mix. My 99A's and the 1100's compliment each other well but the 1100's kinda overwhelm the 99A's. HPM-100's would be probably be better for the small space I have and sound just right along with the 99A's.

I would suggest you get some HPM-100's to try but keep the CS-99A's.

Thats a really good question. A friend tech of mine has the CS-88's and claims they are smoother on the top end then the 99's. I would love to hear all three sets some time. Beauty wise, the CS speakers win hands down in my book. I'm gonna have to get my friend to fire those 88's up some time. It has been decades since I've heard any of the CS line. I use Sentry III's and JBL100T's so I think I got the HPM line about covered.

personally, sounds to me like you are really happy with the CS-99 so unless you wish to spend some cash experimenting, I wouldn't bother.

I have HPM-100, CS-99a and CS-99aa. With the grills on you can't tell the difference cosmetically between 99a and 99aa. The 100 is taller and deeper but narrower than 99s. 100 sorta looks bigger but think the area is about the same, a slight illusion.

I read somewhere somebody saying bad things about 99aa. I think they are gorgeous but they all are. I kinda think the 99aa's are prettier compared to 99a with the grills off. Most likely whoever bagged them never had a pair.

If I blindfolded you and switched the speakers around you could not tell the difference. Maybe on some tracks prefer one or the other. Basically to me its a toss up.

Maybe there are better speakers out there. I don't really care. My neighbor is building a 60 vette in his garage. I'm sure I could find a faster car. That isn't the point. I wanted a vintage Pioneer system and there you go, could do alot worse. One thing I think is incredible is how well they have aged. I think I will have some more.

My recommendation is keep the CS-99a's and get the HPM-100s too, they will enjoy each other. Have some fun with it. I'm 61 thats how I feel about it.

Have you thought about having your 99a's recap'ed?

I enjoy my 99a's,do they fall into the full range category? They seem balanced, not to boomy, not to shrill. I know that might be a description for a individual speaker.

Hi,

I have both and must say they are very different in sound to me.
The 99a is without a doubt the most beautiful work of art a vintage speaker can be!
The HPM is very solid and attractive, also has real wood veneer, but doesn't have have the "furniture quality" of the 99A.
I bought my 99A's from the original owner in like new mint conditon for 200.00 who had "upgraded" to the Bose Accoustimess System.
Same with my HPM 100's, 220.00 from the orig owner in almost mint cond.

IMHO, the sound from the 99A's is very "seventies", sounds good on 60's and 70's music, very warm vintage sound, BUT Pioneer made the darn cabinet WAY too small for that 15" woofer!
As such the really deep bass you can feel from a 15 incher just isn't there.
Also the bass seems to break up and get muddy at high volumes.

The HPM on the other hand is more balanced and has deeper more natural bass, but the cone tweeter can be shrill and overbearing, I turn the high level control down 3-4 db and that smooths it out.
I am considering experimenting with replacing the HPM's cone tweeters with a similar sized soft dome that can fit the hole to get the best highs possible.
The HPM's flat out kick a$$ at high volumes, the only similar era speaker that really beats the HPM is the Klipsch Cornwall.

I would suggest listening to the HPM's and decide for yourself, or just find a good pair and buy em!
But find a good clean set, too many on ebay are junkers thar have beat up wood and drivers,
One thing about either, you can always get your money back out of them,
Vintage Pioneer, Sansui, etc, equipment just goes up in value,

Good Luck!

GMG

So who has calculated the appropriate port size for the "theoretical" better CS-99a and attempted a mod?

I had a nice pair of 99a and enjoyed them very much and they worked great for lower volume warm 'AM Gold' style listening. The HPM-100s suited my 'bright' music tastes better so that is why Im using them now. Both are good though, just different; vanilla and chocolate, its all good.

I decided to rotate the 3 sets of speakers and put the HPM-100s as front in the living room (were in bedroom).

I discovered that the CS-99a and CS-99aa are louder than HPM-100. The sound quality is very similiar but the difference in volume was annoying. I rotated them around to make sure it was not placement issue. I finally decided on CS-99a front CS99aa rear (they match up fine) and the HPM-110 in bedroom. I am now as pumped as Arnie from lifting them around several times.

Well I have 4 CS 99As and 4 CS 88As hooked up to my Sansui QRX 9001
Joe

My most enjoyed music is 60's and 70's rock.

Here's the most important part of your question, and from the looks of things, only a couple of the responses actually took this into consideration. Being a lover of 60s/70s RNR myself, and having owned both pairs of speakers, along with quite a few of the other CS & HPM versions of Pioneer speakers, for that type of music, dump the CS-99As and get yourself the HPM 100s! It's not even close. Period.





Retro

and get yourself the HPM 100s! It's not even close. Period.
Retro


owning a pair myself now has really opened my eyes.

Yep ...go HPM all the way, don't stop at the 100's. I got my 100's stacked on top of my 200's with a HPM 1500 on each side. I'd show ya some pictures but spok caught me last time I posted a picture.



:guitar:

I would also agree that the HPM- 100's sound better to my ears. The 99's just didn't cut it on bass. The mids and tweets can be attenuated on the HPM's to pure bliss. I've owned Heresys, Fortes, Quartets, and a slew of other similar sized speakers as well as CS-77, CS-88, and CS-99's. The HPM- 100's are the most versatile, all around speaker I've heard in their size and price, PERIOD!!! Oh, that is unless you can find a set of JBL 4333 or L200's for $300.

Kentucky got snowed in pretty good today, so I did some A-B comparisons of my 99a's and several other models. The big surprise was Optimus 50's! Nver heard of them until a buddy gave them to me, but they sound nearly as good as my Jbl L100's, but less effecient. The 99A's were clearly better than anything I own, including the HPM-100's, Hpm-60's, Jbl L100's, Jbl L36's, Heresy's II, the KLH 17's, Utah A-100's, Ar-2ax's, Ar-3a's, two pair of great old Jensens and several other well known and popular pairs.
What I find to be best about them is the depth of sound! There are simply more dimensions in the sound of these Pioneers. The L100's have some great layers of sound most speakers are missing, and the HPM's are perhaps closest in quality, but I'll never get rid of my 99A's!
I might add that I am nearing 60, and hard of hearing, if any of that makes a difference! :yes:

See everybody agree's :D

Yes the CS 99a are a mystery speakers. For the sake of me i can not understand why members are saying that they are bass shy. IMHO they offer a very smooth evenly balance sound and the bass comes as close to natural (heartbeat) percussion as it gets. Mine are on the do not sell list! Note: When i got my set I did not like the sound until I tightened the drivers screws and match it with a sansui 2000x and found musical magic. Maybe someone can explain why I could not get the same effect with my pioneer SA 9800 amp.

The bass works for me too. I have a large library of lossless files playing 24/7 from computer. Mostly rock Beatles, Stones etc other stuf as well.

The main reason getting CS 99a and HPM100 was to compare to existing CS 99aa. Apparently CS 99aa are rare. From the little info I could find CS 99aa were rated inferior. I was expecting to rank them 1. HPM 100 2. CS 99a 3. CS 99aa. I was expecting HPM 100 to be obviously superior. In my listening test it was a toss up. The difference would be subjective. I did discover that if you play 4 speakers the 99a and 99aa were the best setup. Some day I will find another set of HPM 100 and give that a try. In my opinion the point is its all good.

As far as the SA 9800 question if there is something you would like me to try let me know.

Just purchased a set of CS-99a and running them along with a pair of CS-A9000 (OK speakers-rated at 150W and sold with the Pioneer syscom systems in the early 80s). Good sounding but even the CS-A9000's base is more exact on 90s music which is consistent with the replys above for a set of HPM-100s. Running them through a refurbished A-80 150 w/channel Pioneer amp (excellent amp).

Having said that, I love the look and overall sound of the 99a. Thinking about getting a set of HPM 100s as complements.