Short HT

[luis]

I have no space, and no agreament from wife, to use a full 6.1 system. So, my queston is.
With my stereo and adding a sub, just by using a good DVD, can I get sound processing??, or inspite of any good DVD I also need a HT receiver??
Regards

[WildWest]

"I have no space, and no agreament from wife, to use a full 6.1 system. So, my queston is".

Hey ya luis...

A full 6.1 system? You know, there sure isn't much source material out there that uses 6.1 encoding. I don't know of any myself. 5.1 yes and seeing how your space is limited I think 5.1 is all you should shoot for. Many DTS 5.1 AVR's out there at budget prices these days.

You can get sound from about any functioning reciever. Will it be decoded as it should be from the DVD? No. Will it sound good? Well uhhh to each their own but, it will sound like crap if you ask me. You should find a AVR capable of decoding the DVD digital signal so that you can have a proper amplification of the amazing 5.1 surround sound effect. Good luck!

[Thatch_Ear]

Louis,
Your typical DVD player will have a DAC built in and you can hook up any kind of gear you want. You won't be able to get all the different halls, effects and that stuff but if you have some integrated gear around you can use it. There will be RCA plug outlets on the back of the DVD for your front, back, center and sub channels. I did buy a Pioneer HT reciever and the dig coax cable and thought it sounded like a piece of gear made for only those cheap surround systems with the little satalites and a half way descent center and sub. Well that is what it was. My patch cords and vintage gear do a much better job with all the full size speakers and other gadjets I have. I do have to get up and fine tune the stuff because only the DVD has a remote. If you are planning on going with the small satalite speakers go ahead and get a HT reciever and a recommendation for your small surround speakers is to get some Radio Shack Minimus 7s off of Ebay. If you have a stereo you like the DVD player will also have a 2 channel output you can use and you just watch your movies in stereo. If it is wife problems this might be a good solution for you as DVD players tend to be very good CD players as well so you just replace the cd player you have now. S cable gives the best picture for your TV.
Thatch

[WildWest]

I guess I must be out of touch with typical DVD players. I have installed a few of them for customers and owned a few and I never see any with all channel RCA's out. Sure does not mean that they are not on the market. Just, in my travels and installations I have yet to see one. I guess if you have one like that then one will be all set for 5.1 DTS. But I do believe it is not the norm. Likely you don't have that Louis. Do you? What brand is it if you do? I would be curious.

As mentioned in another thread. There are many 5.1 AVRs available on the market and pretty much all of them will drive the typical speakers to levels that are proper for your viewing pleasure with an active sub. After installing some of these AVRs for customers, I have yet to have them not work correctly with any speakers I match up to them. After all, we don't drive our DVD sound tracks to levels that we drive our two channel stereo to. My Harman/Kardon AVR 510 pushes my main 4 ohm speakers in 5.1 mode to levels far beyond what I could possibly want for proper DVD listening.

If you have a component Video in on your T.V. and out on your DVD, I would suggest you use that as it will be your best picture available. And don't go through your AVR with that signal either. Connect directly from your DVD player to the TV if you are using a 480p capable DVD player. While having the AVR in the mix is nice for switching, we feel that one may degrade the signal in some cases by doing this.

[ProAc_Fan]

HEY WW my $2K Pioneer Elite DVD player has all RCA's outs. In fact it has more than one set of each.:p:



Mike

[WildWest]

Yeah I was thinking prolly the some of the high dollar DVD players might be the exception. I apologize as my mind set was in the more budget to mid priced machines and I didn't say that did I? Whew, gotta pay attention here eh? LOL

Say Mike, what model number is that Pioneer you got. I want to look at it's features. That is some big chunk of change to drop on a DVD player. Who's chipset is in it do you know by chance?

[ProAc_Fan]

Its a Pioneer DV-09 and is unrivaled as a DVD player and makes a fantastic CD player as well. I liked it much better than the top of the line Sony DVD.

pioneer dv-09 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PioneerCanadaEng/CDA/HomeProducts/POC_Eng_HomeProductDetails/0,1850,469,00.html)


Mike

[angela]

Luis, You CAN'T have a smaller space than I currently do and I even have a Classe CA300 sitting out in front of the TV on a Lovan amp stand. Of course, I am INTO this so it's ok, no WAF here ;)
All you would be adding is a center (CRITICAL in a good HT) and two surrounds. The surrounds don't need to be behemoth - they can even be mounted on the walls.
Suggestion - is your wife into movies? Then take her down to a local dealer and arrange for a HT audition. Yeah, go ahead and make it the big boy HT system - not that you would (or any of us for that matter) would install such a system, but if you get her into how cool it all is, you will have a better chance of getting a good receiver and a couple more speakers for your home HT.
cheers,
angela

ps - what's the tv and how much are you able to spend on a setup?

[luis]

Angela
Thanks for your reply.
I own a good stereo based in a Atoll IN 100 amp (dual mono with 100 rms per chanel), a CD67SE from marantz and Totem Arro speakers. The Totems are not specialy designed to use with HT, but, if I dont push too mutch the peak level, they can even avoid the use of the center, since they can produce (in stereo), a so defined sound stage, that you have the feeling that the center is crowded with music/people). I also have a vintage marantz receiver (1530) in perfect shape until today, that I,m using as a tunner, but could be used to reproduce, for ex, the rear channel??. Also have a pair of vintage loudspeakers, 3 way, no brand, but a good sound.
So, I can use a good and expensive DVD and hook the amplifiers there with a poor result in HT. I can buy a HT receiver and get another amplifier, but wiyh good results in HT, or I can use a 3 chanel decoder for the HT with the mains driven by the Atoll with the Arros, the center, rears and sub with these 3 channel processor??
Is it true???
Regards

[luis]

Thanks for your reply Thatch_Ear

This expensive DVD with RCA for the diferent channels can be connected to, for ex: a vintage marantz receiver to use as an amplifier for the rears and an Atool IN 100 amp for the mains, plus a sub and get, not all the halls, but a decent sound with dolby prologic??
Regards
luis

[Thatch_Ear]

Louis.
I would guess WW is used to installing with using a Digital or Fiber optic output to a AVHT (one interconnect) and not really checking out the backsides of the DVD players. Not that I have looked at a lot but everyone I have checked out has RCA outputs for your center, front left and right, sub and rear left and right speakers. The DVD player will tell you all the tricks it can do on the front. My latest little toy cost $180 at Best Buy and will do Dolby Dig, DTS Dig, for DVD and will play CD and has the new Super Audio CD chip in it. If I watch a movie that is done with the DTS format I get all of it even though I am using patch cords and separate amps. If you wanted to you could use 3 stereo amps if you used 2 speakers for your center channel. Or you could use one channel for a center channel and the other for a passive sub. The remote for the DVD is used to set up surround or 2 channel, speaker size so it knows how low a cutoff is needed for the sub etc. My speakers including my center all go down to around 30 HZ so I don't have a sub (yet, I blew my last one out watching Armagenon). The new little Sony does even have a few hall effects but nothing like a HT reciever does. I have 3 stereo and 1 mono block amps for movies, the newest except for a homemade one is a Marantz 2258B reciever that drives the back channels. I get done watching movies and I use the remote to turn the suround off, turn off the extra gear and I have a SACD player ready to entertain me in Stereo. Here is the real catch about the new AV stuff. If you use the digital stream connection I think the reciever does all the digital to analog conversion. If you use your DVD in 6 channel analog the DVD player will do the digital to analog conversion. Or in other words you are paying for the same circuit in 2 pieces of gear.
Here are the advantages of having a AVHT reciever. You can adjust the volume from your seat and you have more hall effects to use.
Thats about it as far as I can tell electronically. The other thing is that a single reciever takes up less space.
Here is the disadvantage. It is going to cost you a whole lot of money to get the performance I get with a cobbled together system. If you have a stereo that you like there is also a place with a pair of RCA plugs that says 2 channel. You can use that and your stereo as a starting place and slowly build your system up. Kind of sneak one piece at a time in and she won't notice as much! The getting her hooked first is a great idea. Then promise her that you can build one even better for less than 25% (and you can).
W.W. never say "Slap leather!" in front of my wife, it will only get her excited!
Thatch

[Wardsweb]

If you would like a less expensive option check out a Carver DPL-33 on Ebay. They go for $50-100 and give you different audio effects via remote control. It's not real fancy but it will allow you to use your setup for two channel audio, as is and turn this on when you want to add the center and two surrounds. It also has a sub out, so you can use another amp and sub or an internally power sub.
http://wardsweb.org/audio/carver_images/dpl33.jpg

[WildWest]

Hey Thatch...

Yeah I am used to installing H/T with a coaxial or toss link out for 5.1. As mentioned. Your more budget minded DVD players don't have all the audio channels out. (budget = under a grand)
The more expensive ones I understand do have it.

You see, anyone that I have installed H/T for would not opt for all the "cobbled" system. It's not as user friendly and just takes up to much space. Performance wise when speaking in 5.1 terms many AVR's have plenty of abillity with an active sub. After all, DVD movie sound tracks are not played all that loud. Not like our music.

I thought he was pressed for "space" so hence the AVR came to mind. I have an amp selector switch in my system. Lets me toggle between AVR and tubes for my main speaker use.

[Thatch_Ear]

W.W.
The only DVD players I own are a Toshiba and a Sony. Toshiba was $250 and Sony $180. Thruth be known I bought them for their performance as CD players before that for movies. The Toshiba is now a couple of years old and I bought it as it was being closed out, because it had the Burr,Brown 24 bit 96 Hz chip in it and would play HDCDs. Had the thing for 5 months before I ever watched a movie with it, and then it took me another 6 months or so before I got it to 5.1. I am one cheap SOB. It took me 2 weeks to decide on whether or not I wanted to spend $180 on a machine that would play Super Audio CDs. I wanted the extra volume I could get out of my Marantz so for a while there (at least 6 mo) I had the 2226 running the back and the 2252 running the front and had to switch out cables on the speakers and the patch cords on the amps if I wanted to listen to my tube amp when playing CDs. So no expensive stuff here. I think you just don't see it because it is of no concern for what you are doing. Kind of like not seeing the Coke next to the caffeine free Dr Pepper at the Safeway in Salt Lake City. Ya see it but it just has no purpose for you and gets in the way of thinking about how you are going to get the right bass out of the ceiling mounts in the back of the room.
Also you are talking to a guy that was patching integrated amps out of tape monitor RCAs and wiring up my whole house to a single source 25 years ago. I am kind of like the King of patch cords, garage sale amps and speakers. First thing I look at it is how can I wire this to at least 5 more things.
Now I have actually learned something about audio besides how to daisy chain and am doubly dangerous to open pocket books. My dad figured it was cheaper to hire a local in Las Vegas to do his house than it was for me to do it for free. He was right! Course it won't sound as good, but hey! He has hearing aids and can't tell anyway! But just think, the 15K I would have spent would have raised the proprty value at least 1K. Landscaping won't do that.
Thatch

[Thatch_Ear]

W.W.
You need to get back in this. I might be a good cobbler but Louis is also asking for some pro advice. Between the 2 of us we should be able to get a system in his place we would like to own. I think the big thing now is how to get his existing system into the movie loop, not spend too much money on getting it into the 5.1 realm and keep his wife happy. The wife thing is the most unpredictable and where the most advice is needed. I built a bass horn for the lows in the center channel and am cretainly not anyone to give advice on that. The center channel seems to be his big lack.

[WildWest]

Hey Thatch:

Pro? Geee LOL I sure don't have any paper work hangin on my wall saying I am that. But it's a nice thought. In fact, there are many here that have much deeper backgrounds in audio/television electronics etc. than me. I install H/T systems and related structural sound systems with a builder contractor buddy of mine but even at that, we recently started in it.

Regardless, I know what I know and I say it. If anyone wants to take a different direction why they certainly can do that. Likely there are a number of variables and options to arriving at a point. That's what is so nice about a forum. So many people can chime in and say "try this, try that". I think Louis has been given a lot of good input here and now has many options in front of him. If I can add anymore I would be happy to! :)

[VinylHanger]

This is the exact thread I was going to start. I have so much gear around the house that I don't want to go out and spend money on another receiver. I am hoping to run the G-22000 as the fronts with the Jensen LS-6's, the SX-750 in the rears with the Advents or the Pioneer Project 100's, the center is the one I am not sure about, how would I go about running a single center from another amp/receiver, or should I just take a set of little Infinity RS-1000's and put them side by side? I prefer to just listen to movies in stereo most of the time, but it would be nice to use the technology available these days. And I also am a cheapo son of a vintage fan. My TV is an old RCA 80's 25 inch swivel set, so no need to get to fancy. That Carver thing looks kinda neat though.

[bully]

I run a pair of Yamaha NS-A838 for the center channel of my HT set. The Elite VSX-99 has the option of a single speaker or a pair, ya just move a switch on the back panel. I drive the center pair with an Onkyo M-5160 amp.

pete, but I haven't figured out how to get sound when I switch it to DD! Even when using the dvd player. ??

[VinylHanger]

It is definetly nice to know that I ain't the only one who likes to "scab" together systems. There are places where the only advice you get is " you must have a dedicated center speaker, or the whole thing will be thrown out of focus and your house will fall down and the wheels will fly off your truck" :D

[WildWest]

Well ya know...Almost anything can be done. Anything can be put together to make sound. Is it the sound the engineer intended in the operating format? Maybe, maybe not. If one is happy with the sound then, there ya go! :)

[VinylHanger]

yep, that's my amntra, if's I like it, then it stays, iffin' I don't well then it stays till something better comes along