View Full Version : Bearing Oil for your turntable?


ProAc_Fan
01-08-2005, 03:55 AM
I've never seen this topic discussed on AK. Just what sort of oil do you use for your table bearing? I've seen the ridiculously priced stuff ( $15 for 50mL) but there must be a reasonable alternative. I've heard everything from sewing machine oil to synthetic 0W-40 motor oil. What would you recommend for a Thorens TD-166? Or any table for that matter?

Mike

heathkit tv
01-08-2005, 04:17 AM
You can get a small bottle of oil with a 2 or 3" long needle for oiling model train locomotives at most any hobby shop. Thinnish oil that is made for something that is going to see higher speeds than any turntable. IMHO it should be fine.

Anthony

harhau
01-08-2005, 06:52 AM
Dual recommends 10W/40 for the 731Q and 10W/30 for the 701.

I would guess either one would be fine for most bearings. The user manual as well as the service manual for TD-166 are available for free at www.vinylengine.com - check it out!

- Harald

ferninando
01-08-2005, 08:59 AM
any car engine oil will be more than sufficient to lube a tiny TT bearing. So don't waste your money on fancy stuff.
Go out to your car, pull the dipstick and collect what remains on the end of the stick.
That is if you don't have a qt. sitting around the garage. If you do have a qt. you can pacakge up a few drops in vials and sell em on ebay for $5 apiece as TURNTABLE LUBRICATING OIL, and start and an ebusiness. But don't forget to charge $5 for shipping and handling.

Grumpy
01-08-2005, 09:04 AM
any car engine oil will be more than sufficient to lube a tiny TT bearing. So don't waste your money on fancy stuff.
Go out to your car, pull the dipstick and collect what remains on the end of the stick.
That is if you don't have a qt. sitting around the garage. If you do have a qt. you can pacakge up a few drops in vials and sell em on ebay for $5 apiece as TURNTABLE LUBRICATING OIL, and start and an ebusiness. But don't forget to charge $5 for shipping and handling.

I DO NOT recommend doing this. Who knows what contamination is in the oil from your car. At the very least get some "new" unused oil.

I would stick with what was recommended by the TT manufacturer. Some say heavier oil while others require light sewing machine oil. You can or will damage bearings by using the wrong oil. My 2 cents..

ferninando
01-08-2005, 09:13 AM
Oh come on. If it's clean oil it aint gonna hurt athing. I was just tryin to make a point.
I stand behind using motor oil, but if you want to spend your money, go ahead.

Grumpy
01-08-2005, 09:25 AM
Using motor oil from the end of a dip stick is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Do you have any idea how close the tolerance is on a TT bearing. Now lets throw some metal shavings from you cars oil in there. Think before giving piss poor advice like that !

And yes I will spend MY money however I choose.

ferninando
01-08-2005, 09:40 AM
boy you are grumpy arn't you. Geez, lighten up.

Andyman
01-08-2005, 10:15 AM
Go out to your car, pull the dipstick and collect what remains on the end of the stick.

YECCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHH!!! :thumbsdn:

I'm with Grumpy on this. Why on earth would you take dirty oil from a car engine and use it on a cherished piece of audio gear??

Trust me, I can be as tight as a new drumhead, but this suggestion really is out to be tops in the Skinflint Hall of Fame. I mean really, what does a quart of new oil cost?? $1.59??? Just add the few drops from NEW quart you are adding to top off your engine.

Talk about pennywise and dollar dumb??

PS. I just used some Solder Seal Gunk Super Oil ("premium machine oil") on my TD-160 and it seems to work just fine.

Maron Horonzakz
01-08-2005, 10:34 AM
Light machine oil is fine. I use 3 in 1 light oil. Heck remember this stuff has been sitting in the ground for millions of years. all they do is boil off the impurities and bottle the different weights (cracking its called ) I used to use MOBLE light machine oil. Hard to find at your local gas station these days.

rwortman
01-08-2005, 11:24 AM
The bearing in my CS5000 is supposed to be oiled with a rather thick oil that has tackifiers in it to make it cling to the bearing surface. Remember we are not just lubing a slow speed bearing, we are supposed to be using an oil with sufficient film strength to keep the bearing surfaces from ever touching each other to reduce rumble. I don't think that really lightweight sewing machine type oils would be ideal at all. I haven't had to replace the oil yet but I think the closest cheap replacement would be chainsaw bar oil.

Maron Horonzakz
01-08-2005, 11:38 AM
On some TT a heavier oil is recommended. Always check with manufacturer. All bearing tollerence and loads arnt the same. I had a Fairchild TT that was never turned off & no additional oil was ever added it spun for 30 yrs.

heathkit tv
01-08-2005, 11:48 AM
I wouldn't be too worried about "keeping bearing surfaces from touching each other" as it ain't happening on even a brandy new TT. Folks, we ain't talking about high performance high speed machinery here, sheesh. Most likely all TT's use a friggin Oilite bronze bushing (invented by Studebaker in the 30's).....this is a chunk of bronze that is a porous and is impregnated with oil. This oil is slowly excreted during use (under pressure or heat). You can "recharge" these bushings (bearings) by heating them up and soaking them in oil...think of them as a metallic sponge.

Anyway, my suggestion of the model train oil meets the criteria for TT use as it's cheap, plentiful, and has an applicator nozzle which will help reaching tight places. Go ahead and use your used motor oil with it's contamination of combustion by-products (VERY abrasive) if you want........that's beyond ignorant.

Anthony

outlawmws
01-08-2005, 11:57 AM
:thumbsdn: on the used oil. As mentioned its contaminated, if not with metal, definitly with corrosives.

The difference between a light oil like sewing mach oil, and an engine motor oil is substantial. Also some oils are hygroscopic. (this comes up on my machine tools forum often, its the ability of oil to absorb water. Water + rust...) These should be avoided, as the absorbed water will corrode the bearings. Gun oil would be better than 3 in one as its certainly not hygroscopic.

The viscocity should be matched close to manuf specs, as too thick an oil could add a load to the TT rotation. Even if this did not affect rotational speed, it could add load to the motor, conceivably wearing/burning it out sooner. I colug imagine some using a very light grease, (NOT axle grease, probably something like gun grease.)

While I also agree using a special packaged vial isn't smart, (all you are really buying is packageing and advertizing...) using the wrong grade oil isn't either.

opt80
01-08-2005, 12:00 PM
I wouldn't use oil from a KIA that's for sure.However on another note,please go easy on Oldhifiguy,it is his belief and it is not like he is using motor oil on your TT.
I will now go back to my usual non-confrontational ways,want to make something of it??

Alan

Grumpy
01-08-2005, 12:10 PM
There is NO one type oil for all Turntable. There are as many different types of bearings as there are tables.

CarlV
01-08-2005, 12:29 PM
definitly with corrosives.
Indeed it is!
There is no need to use any dead dinosaur product in this application anymore
as it will cake up eventually.
Most silicone greases also have useless additives that get ugly with age.
I hate auto talk here but Ford has a silicon grease that is just plain wonderful
as is their limited slip additive. Relatively cheap too.
Their silicone grease is what I use. :)

Carl

Maron Horonzakz
01-08-2005, 02:33 PM
Well its not like were using oil from a Yugo.

CarlV
01-08-2005, 03:11 PM
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Grumpy
01-08-2005, 03:12 PM
Thought the only way oil came out of a Yugo was in smoke form.

DanTana
01-08-2005, 03:38 PM
I bought some RemOil from Walmarts, gun oil with teflon. Very light viscosity, but with teflon for wear resistance. Worked great and was really cheap. Good enough for a Glock 17 :)

Automann
01-08-2005, 03:47 PM
I would not recommend 3in1 oil as it has been modified to improve penetrating action to free up seized bolts etc and after 25 years in the automotive industry, I can assure you Grumpy is right, if you want to kill a good table lube it with old engine oil. :sigh:

I value my turntable and want to enjoy it at it’s best for as long as possible so I brought a 250ml/ ¼ pint bottle of good quality synthetic lubricating oil (Mobil 0w-40w).

Carefully lifted the spindle from the bearing then mopped up the last of the old oil left in the bearing housing and shaft.
Next top bearing housing up till about ½” from the top, place some old rags about 2” around the bearing, (to catch spillage) then insert shaft into the bearing and walk away and leave it for a couple of hours or overnight(while gravity helps the table settle down till gets fully home).

(do NOT be tempted to help it with a big hand)

Next reassemble the belt etc and play a few records. :yes:

Yamaha B-2
01-08-2005, 03:58 PM
I bought some RemOil from Walmarts, gun oil with teflon. Very light viscosity, but with teflon for wear resistance. Worked great and was really cheap. Good enough for a Glock 17 :)

Sounds like you want to shoot your TT, not lubricate the bearing (BTW, aren't Glocks plastic?).

Absolutely with Grumpy on this one. If you want to take a chance with your $200 bearing/motor, that is your business. But it only takes a bit of research to find out what the manufacturer recommends. Some bearings are inverted and others ride on teflon balls and others are bronze with graphite, and some are even running on a jeweled surface, etc., etc., etc.

If you want it to work well for the long haul then do a little digging on the internet and find out what is needed and use that. Or, don't. Its your money and TT.

Editing this as I sent to Joel at the "Turntable Factory" and got this reply. He has ask for the link to this thread, which I'll send along. Perhaps he will reply directly. Here is my question and his response (complete):


Hi..
Fact of the matter is, I DO have an opinion here:
"If the turntable manufacturers had any better knowledge than we do
about lubricants, we wouldn't now have turntables that have oil that
turned to muck, nor grease that turned to glue" You can quote me on that!
Turntables, like cars, were built with "planned obsolescence" in
mind. For the most part, a turntable's expected "useful" life was
probably 5 years, as you'd want to upgrade as "newer & better" came
along. You'll note that service manuals for turntables mention NOTHING
about cleaning off old grease that has hardened when giving
troubleshooting tips. Although some gave recommendations about
lubricants, those recommendations were mostly based on what was easily
available at the time of manufacture, and the country turntable was
manufactured in... as well as the costs of procurement of the lubricants.
Personally, when we service the average turntable, we use Wacker
silicon AK300,000 or 500,000 for damping issues, 3-in-1 oil where oil is
required, and high-temperature automotive wheel-bearing grease where
grease is called for. We also use these lubricants sparingly, as often
they were originally just used to quiet down the functions of the
automechanisms, and over time, made those functions inoperative.
Keep in mind that all the above is my opinion, and based only on what
I have seen for the last 30 years. I'm no chemist nor engineer. Hope
I've been a help.. if you DO post any of my comments, would you mind
sending me a link? Thanks, have a great weekend... Joel

gpdavis@comcast.net wrote:

> Hello Joel:
>
> We are arguing on the AudioKarma.org forum about TT bearing oil. Some
> folks are stating that most any automotive oil is fine, so say 3-in-1
> household oil, some say this, some say that. I say stick with the
> original manufacturer's recommendation.
>
> Am wondering if you might say something that I can quote you on in the
> forum?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Glenn Davis

For sales and service of vintage and classic record playing systems:
http://www.TheTurntableFactory.com
>>>>>Check us out!<<<<<

WhiskeyRebel
01-08-2005, 06:31 PM
While we are on the topic of lubricating bearings, what would be a good oil to add to the bearings in my reel-to-reel deck? I have it apart to change its belt and thought I'd give it an oiling before it goes back together. Her are what I have on hand:

motor oil (not used)
Slick 50 One Lube (penetrating lubricant with teflon, worked awesome on a noisy ceiling fan FWIW)
WD 40 (I know, DON'T it will do more harm than good, but I have it on the off chance that it is what to use)
sewing machine oil
hoppe's gun oil
mineral oil

For that matter, if all the rotating parts seem to spin freely, should I leave the bearings alone and add no oil at all?

EchoWars
01-08-2005, 07:00 PM
Eh...I use Castrol Syntec 5W50 motor oil. Have some in a small bottle with a needle applicator.

Yamaha B-2
01-08-2005, 07:07 PM
More from Joel at the TT Factory:

Hi..
I saw your post, and the argumewnts. Like everything else in REAL life, there is no such thing as "one size fits all" One really can't generalize the whole turntable lube issue. My answer was geared more towards what I do most of.. and probably what you guys on the forum like least.. record changers/stacking turntables. In such cases, 99% of the time, the platter bearings will get either 3-in-1 or grease. One thing none of my machine see? WD-40.. You'd be amazed at how many units I see that come in here dripping with that "stuff"!

Joel


FWIW, I clean the grunge from my bicycle chain with WD-40, which is primarily kerosene and a great cleaner on surfaces/materials that are not harmed by it (stainless or carbon-steel chain). Then I dry thoroughly (because it is so volatile it evaporates pretty quickly with a hair dryer - stand back, though, it will flame if too hot). Then I soak in oil overnight and remove all of the excess prior to reinstalling on the bike. This is the same procedure that NoTransistors uses on Dual TT bearings, BTW. WD-40 is only good for cleaning. Not lubricating in the longer-term.

outlawmws
01-08-2005, 08:25 PM
Joel, thanks for taking time to respond. I have a couple of thoughts, based on what you have said, (very good points all around BTW) and would like your input on them.

Keeping your comments in mind:

Oil voilitility - Sorry can't think of a better term. What I mean is for non-metalic bearing surfaces, some oils may attack the various plastic materials used in a bearing, or on parts adjacent to a bearing.

3 in one vs gun oil - I believe 3 in one is hygroscopic, and gun oils are not. Wouldn't keeping moisture out of the oil be better? corrosion...

Oil weight - With car engines the weight of oil is planned to have it have a certion viscosity and resistance to sheer, at various operarting temperatures, so as to prevent metal to metal contact. There would always be a film of oil between.

With TT's there isn't such severe duty. All you have to worry about is having sufficient viscosity to keep the oil from draining off completely. After that, bearing clearances come into play, tight tolerances may need thinner oil, looser tolerances might need a heavier oil.

Greases - I'd be a bit leary of using any ordinary automotive axle grease. It has a terrible habit of cakeing up just from sitting, which is what we see consistantly in old mechanizims. I have some old cans of grease in my garage collection that is no longer useable, even though it is still "new in can". Its turned from a creamy state to a waxy caked state.

The newer synthetic greases like mobil 1 may be a better choice. M1 was designed for the navy's fighter landing gear and has great specifications. (for automotive use) The downside is that it costs 5-10X what ordinary axle grease. That being said, at around $10 a tube, it's all I use (or reccomend) on my vehicles now, as I mostly work on 4x4's and expect them to see use an ordinary street car won't. (creek crossings etc.) If you can buy it for garage use, certainly the tiny ammout needed for a TT won't be missed.

Re: your comments on WD40, :thmbsp: I'm surprized that no one, (Like maybe me... :stupid:) had mentioned it and it's issues. Your suggested uses are right on. use it to clean, and then get it the heck out of there and a proper lube in. BTW for you gun owners, Since another property of WD40 is to remove rust, and gun blueing is a form of rust, keep WD40 off you guns!

GibsonLesPaul
01-08-2005, 08:37 PM
I just looked over the owners manual for my vintage Pioneer PL-100
turntable and it states, " lubrication of the motor shaft and tone arm
bearings is not neccessary." It still runs fine with the occassional belt
change so I decided to wipe the oil from my dipstick on my pantleg
instead of my TT bearing.

Yamaha B-2
01-08-2005, 08:55 PM
Did the same with my vintage Yamaha YP-D71 TT. Except I have the service manual. It is like Joel (TT Factory) stated in his response. Isn't even mentioned. Nada.

asynchronousman
01-08-2005, 09:12 PM
YECCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHH!!! :thumbsdn:

I'm with Grumpy on this. Why on earth would you take dirty oil from a car engine and use it on a cherished piece of audio gear??

He was just making a point, not necessarily to promote recycling the car's oil just that you probably have all the stuff to lubricate your equipment in the house/garage or at the grocery store.

And I suspect a little facetious :p: :rolleyes: so now that we know the difference can we get back to the OPs topic, which was answered by Grumpy, I believe?

Later, folks :thmbsp:

glen65
01-08-2005, 09:28 PM
any car engine oil will be more than sufficient to lube a tiny TT bearing. So don't waste your money on fancy stuff.
Go out to your car, pull the dipstick and collect what remains on the end of the stick.
That is if you don't have a qt. sitting around the garage. If you do have a qt. you can pacakge up a few drops in vials and sell em on ebay for $5 apiece as TURNTABLE LUBRICATING OIL, and start and an ebusiness. But don't forget to charge $5 for shipping and handling.


I got a better idea..buy one new quart of oil for your turntable
and the next time you want to use one to lube the other make sure your
using your turntable oil to top off the car. And not the other way around.

asynchronousman
01-08-2005, 09:36 PM
I got the best idea yet!

:beer: :withstpd: :drunk: :nutz:

Hot wings, y'all?

NoTransistors
01-08-2005, 10:44 PM
I have just completed a Dual 1219 rebuild for one of our members. As usual, I have used Castrol 10W40 on the motor bushings, and the same on the platter bearing. The darn thing was made in 1972, and is way quieter than the factory specs would suggest. One wierd thing about it, though: This is a Euro-conversion unit, and seems to be several db quieter than the American-market units, that supposedly have the same damn motor. Can some other Dual geek chime in here? My pristine 1229Q isn't as quiet, yet is in perfect shape, and is 2db quieter on paper.I have repaired many of these things, and the ones made for the Euro market are always quieter.
Were they screwing us Americans?

stereofisher
01-08-2005, 10:48 PM
:thumbsdn: on the used oil. As mentioned its contaminated, if not with metal, definitly with corrosives.



While I also agree using a special packaged vial isn't smart, (all you are really buying is packageing and advertizing...) using the wrong grade oil isn't either.

No used oil here! I use 30 weight on my Duals..Nice and quiet motors too! A quart is soooo cheap :D Goes a long way too :D

Eric

NoTransistors
01-09-2005, 12:11 AM
Hey Eric,

Read my above posting and attempt an answer. You are that other Dual geek.

DanTana
01-09-2005, 11:03 AM
If you must use motor oil, I definitely agree with EW with synthetics, I've used them for years now in my cars, I can pull the valve cover off and they are as clean as the day they rolled off the assembly line. Conventional oils are still mineral based and contain many things that can add deposits, etc. Although were not talking anything that can spin 6000 rpm either, but I would still much prefer any synthetic over conventional oil. Man made oils can be tailor made to handle much higher pressures, flow better when cold and not get thick when hot.

NoTransistors
01-09-2005, 11:45 AM
My Pontiac Firebird has 100,000 miles. I installed valve cover gaskets to replace the rubber sealant from the factory. The innards were so clean, that you could eat off them. The engine has never been fed anything more expensive than Valvoline or Castrol standard oils.
Turntable motors have no rings, no combustion, no blow-by. Cheap oil works fine. Who needs to worry that some exotic additive in the fancy oil will clog the porous motor bushings on a precious turntable? The factory used plain oil, and we have no right to second-guess.

Yamaha B-2
01-09-2005, 03:44 PM
Hopefully, no one is putting oil on the brushes. Doesn't make for a very good electrical conduction path.

rwortman
01-09-2005, 05:47 PM
I wouldn't be too worried about "keeping bearing surfaces from touching each other" as it ain't happening on even a brandy new TT. Folks, we ain't talking about high performance high speed machinery here, sheesh. Most likely all TT's use a friggin Oilite bronze bushing (invented by Studebaker in the 30's).....this is a chunk of bronze that is a porous and is impregnated with oil. This oil is slowly excreted during use (under pressure or heat). You can "recharge" these bushings

This is just wrong. Most turntables do NOT use oilite bearings. Maybe some cheap junk ones but not anything with a decent bearing design. Finely polished bearing surfaces with a high film strength oil WILL run completely on the oil film and the bearing surfaces will not touch except perhaps at the ball or point thrust surface if one exists. (else why do I take apart 25 year old TT's and find no wear and only clean oil on the bearing) Just because it doesn't run at high speed doesn't mean it can use any lube any more than the low speed engine in your lawnmower can run on Canola oil. The bearing designer designed the bearing to meet it's spec's with a certain type of oil. Using something drastically different may not ruin your TT but it can definitely affects its performance. I guarantee that if you replace the oil most bearings with some thin low strength oil your rumble level will increase. If you get metal to metal contact on the radial bearing surfaces on my TT's they will wear the bearings out.

stereofisher
01-09-2005, 07:22 PM
Hey Eric,

Read my above posting and attempt an answer. You are that other Dual geek.

This is an interesting observation. Euro Duals are quieter than US models. :worried: I will watch for this. All my Duals are US distributed. Did get my 1009F from a Canadean Ebayer a few years back with a United Audio base. Pretty quiet. Lubed it with 30 weight motor oil last year and its still quiet. Ran all night last month. The LP did not trip the auto return and it ran all night :cry: I was not happy. Still quiet and it did not lock up the motor :D My 1229 had a sticky shut off five years ago and the motor locked up :thumbsdn: Been fine since. Thought I was going to loose the motor. It does need to be lubricated soon.

Still no used motor oil used here!!! Just clean 30 weight. Maybe they do things different out west? Hmmmm? Use what works and as Joel says "less is more" when it comes to grease...

Eric

NoTransistors
01-09-2005, 09:05 PM
Rwortman is wrong about the type of bearings on turntables. My Dual units are far from cheap crap, and all have scintered bronze bearings. This includes the 701 motor and platter bearings. This stuff is plenty quiet. Even a Thorens uses this type of motor bearing. Crap? And Yamaha guy, only some very cheap d.d. and belt units use brush motors. All other motors are A.C. or brushless d.d..

Yamaha B-2
01-09-2005, 09:43 PM
My bad. I read your previous post as 'brushes' rather than 'bushings'. I'd best pay better attention.

rwortman
01-09-2005, 10:36 PM
Rwortman is wrong about the type of bearings on turntables. My Dual units are far from cheap crap, and all have scintered bronze bearings. This includes the 701 motor and platter bearings. This stuff is plenty quiet. Even a Thorens uses this type of motor bearing. Crap? And Yamaha guy, only some very cheap d.d. and belt units use brush motors. All other motors are A.C. or brushless d.d..

The two Dual's that I have worked on (CS5000 and 504) both have oiled bronze bearings. Not Oilite. I bet you have solid bronze not sintered. But I could be wrong. Maybe I have worked on the only two that were different. The only TT I have owned that had a sintered bronze bearing was a cheap POS Music Hall.

Yamaha B-2
01-11-2005, 05:37 PM
In response to an e-mail asking what they recommend, VPI replied that they use white lithium based grease on their inverted bearings and Mobil 1 or fishing-reel oil on their other bearings. Nothing too exotic here.

fidtune
01-11-2005, 09:42 PM
I have been using "gun oil" in a Thorens TD125 mk2. When I first brought it home I noticed the bearing was dry as a parrots mouth. I researched the subject and read a post about "gun oil" consistency being close to that of original Thorens oil and made for low temperature applications. I've been using it with good results. However, Dr. Stephano Pasini, who is known for his passion and knowledge of early Thorens turntables claims and swears by Castrol GTX3. I may give this a try or Mobil 1 the next time I service my TT.
Here is a link.....a must read for Thorens users.

http://www.stefanopasini.it/Turntables-%20Restoration.htm

hpsenicka
06-14-2005, 10:01 PM
Pro_Ac.... what did you end up using to lube your Thorens TT platter bearing??

I just lubed mine with Mobil 1 0W-20 synthetic, and it seems to work fine, but I am now having second thoughts about whether I should have used a 5W-30 or some other viscosity.

Also, I had some difficulty determining how much oil was required.... and finally decided to just make sure the reservoir was full after the spindle is seated, being careful to clean up any overflow.

Anybody have any comments or alternate suggestions?

(BTW, this was new oil... not used oil, in case anyone was wondering)

WingNut
06-16-2005, 08:41 AM
Hey guys, I use a special oil to lube the gear shaft points in my grandfather clock I have in my livingroom on the bearing for my TT. Works great! I think it's a light machine oil. :thmbsp:

Chad Hauris
06-16-2005, 09:15 AM
We use Zoom Spout brand turbine oil with the telescoping spout in turntables and jukeboxes...has worked quite well. We use "S'OK" brand penetrating oil to break free gummed up mechanisms in such machines.

Charles
06-19-2005, 05:19 PM
For what it's worth, I believe Rega recommends something like 70 Wt hypoid lube (rear end grease). I'm currently using 70-90 synthetic marine lower unit lube, works great.

Water Displacement #40 (WD40). I've got the stuff everywhere, use it all of the time, never have found an application where it was my lubricant of choice, other than spraying down the metal choke cable on my old work van. As far as using it as a cleaner, I prefer carb cleaner. Really blasts out the crud, not greasy at all (use it for hand cleaner), & it drops stinging bugs in their tracks. Use it to clean my roofing guns, they really get nasty.

I would imagine if you want something lighter than hypoid lube, Castroil 5-50 synthetic would be hard to beat. I run it in my compressors, they'll start @ 10 degrees & run all day @ 100 degrees.

That said, I would probably use what was recommended by the manufacturer, if I knew what it was. Of course, even the wrong lubrication is better than no lubrication.

carbonman
06-19-2005, 05:53 PM
I have a Thorens TD126 and use Linn oil in the bearing. I figure that it won't hurt the metals or plastics that it comes in contact with or Linn wouldn't use it in turntables themselves. Yes, it IS overpriced, but a $7.95 CDN vial will keep me in turntable oil for the forseeable future.

mdelrossi
12-27-2006, 06:35 PM
I recently dug out my old vinyl rig, VPI 19 MKIII. Cleaned out the bearing and spindle (over 15 years since it was done) and used a mix of Slick50 and Tufoil (more teflon). 50/50. super smooth and got rid of all the rumble, silky blackness.
BTW, VPI suggests Slick50.
good luck.
YMMV
mdr

Paul C
12-27-2006, 07:15 PM
WD-40 is not much more than kerosene, and while it is good for Water Displacement and as a penetrating oil, it is not much for lubrications.

The model train oil with pinpoint applicator is made by X-acto of hobby knife fame, and is good quality oil.

Singer Sewing Machine Oil works well, too... ever hear the expression "... runs like a sewing machine"? That's because of Singer Oil. :D

On fine woodwinds many repairmen use NEW 30 wt motor oil or automatic transmission fluid, common Dextron ATF. These oils work well, cling where they are supposed to be and don't dry out. There's no reason they won't work on turntable bearings, too. For turntable bearings I would think the 30 wt oil would be a little better than Dextron.

danj
12-28-2006, 03:00 AM
WD-40 should not even be allowed in the same room with a turntable bearing! I've had to do many repairs on DUALS that would have been just fine had the owner not tried to lubricate them with WD-40. That stuff can be death to DUAL and, I'm quite sure, almost any other turntable.

Use the WD-40 for drying out a car distributor or freeing a rusty bolt but NEVER NEVER use it on audio equipment!

theophile
12-28-2006, 03:48 AM
Sorry oldhifiguy,
I'd like to nominate your suggestion of using used oil from your car engine as the all time-most insane suggestion,not only on AK but on any Hi-Fi forum anywhere at anytime.
Sam Tellig's Armor All recommendation hasn't just been eclipsed,we've witnessed the Big Bang of dud recommendations.:king: :thmbsp:

ZebraBlvd
12-28-2006, 06:01 AM
When I got my restart into vintage gear a couple years ago I came across the question that is at the core of this thread. What oil,lubricant,grease would be the best for my little $53.00 TD150's bearing. I set out to find this magic stuff I heard that I needed.

After much reading on the subject, here and other places, I just decided to go with what I thought would be the best for my little friend. And that was van den Hul's spindle oil. Might be the new Snake Oil of the 20th century. I don't know. I do know that I am quite happy w/it.

For me I'd rather spend the monies on products that are targeted for specific jobs. And if they work, all that much better. Besides, I've been told on more than one occasion that I have more money than sense.:yes: And believe me I don't have a lot of the first either.:no:


On a side note: I like Yugo's, they have that nice heated rear window so your hands don't get cold when you are pushing them.:smoke:

theophile
12-28-2006, 06:25 AM
Zebra
I was gonna post on that product from vdh,but on going to the website I couldn't find a mention of it,so I thought better of it.
Kinda nice to know that there is a never ending supply of high class lubricant for my turntable,as close as my car's engine though.:thmbsp:

ZebraBlvd
12-28-2006, 07:12 AM
Yea, I never had any luck finding it on the Hul site either.

I got mine from a seller on You Know Where. They also have a TLF (lower friction) formula also. But the regular stuff is OK w/me. Hell, it might be motor oil in a Hul bottle for all I know.

I just want to spend more time on listening than I do on maintenance.

Jim Eck
12-28-2006, 07:26 AM
I have used a product called FP-10 http://www.shooters-choice.com/products/lubricants/fp_10_lubricant_elite.htm I have gotten great results with this product, it also works very well as a firearm lubricant. You can probably pick it up at your local sporting goods store.


Jim

denniswilson
12-28-2006, 04:42 PM
Anybody have any thoughts on post #24 from WhiskeyRebel ?
I too would be interested to know what oil folks would suggest for reel to reel tape decks like my Teac. Lets say for the capstan, pinch roller, idler wheels etc. Also...Do those reel to reel motors get oil? and if so, how and what kind? :scratch2:
Tanks

Windwalker
03-26-2008, 09:55 AM
Do all tables need some type of oiling?
Even those that say "factory sealed bearings"

In my case a Pioneer PL-518. Anyone know if this TT could use a drink? if so where?

During my cleaning(s) I normally will spray some silicon on a swap and give a quick wipe of the metal to metal parts(ie-platter return arm)

Should the plastic cam gears maybe have a bit of white lithum grease applied to em?

johnnybg
04-14-2008, 06:42 PM
Using motor oil from the end of a dip stick is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Do you have any idea how close the tolerance is on a TT bearing. Now lets throw some metal shavings from you cars oil in there. Think before giving piss poor advice like that !

And yes I will spend MY money however I choose.

I am stunniest in tthe most British/Danish way

Give it a spoon and let down with a.. a crack

Hope you have a "clean" oil.

Johnny B Goodde

johnnybg
04-14-2008, 06:56 PM
As far as I know - give HercA clean oil - Thick

And let her - The beariring - suck.

Why use <regeneretadet oil - Just so Narrowminded

Johnny BG

BrocLuno
04-14-2008, 09:57 PM
One of the issues I have not seen discussed here is what happens over time? The issue with many TT bearings is that the oils partially dry out or become thickened with age. This in not likely an issue with one that gets annual service. But some of these TTs have to run many years between service.

I'm in the camp that says the oil needs to have a very very low volatility factor (less evaporation), needs to maintain a good film without draining away, and needs pretty good shear strength. Sewing machines need the same exact issues. So do old mechanical wound clocks.

I have been using sewing machine oil for years (I'm 60) because it does not dry out easily. I also use gun oil as it's the most resistant to moisture and loosing film. But, they are both pretty light oils. For machines that need a heavier oil, I would go with a petroleum only multi-grade.

Synthetics are great for freeing bearings, but have been known to "drain away" much more readily than dino oils. The differences on film durability when not in motion is well covered elsewhere on the 'Net. Just my $.02 worth :)

Argyle
04-14-2008, 10:07 PM
I'm glad this thread got bumped up. i am going to try the sewing machine oil on my h/k turntable, but how do I apply it? just put a drop or two down the barrel that turns the belt? or do i need to crack it open?

theophile
04-14-2008, 10:10 PM
For me,the number one factor is that in many instances the lubrication in a bearing is an integral element in the dimensional tolerance the bearing is designed for.
Therefore the lubricant has to meet specific criteria.I can't see that there could be any one size fits all solutions.
In my opinion,only a lube recommended by the manufacturer.

Mopic5
04-15-2008, 09:37 AM
It seems that being flexible with bearing lubes can be important with older tables. If there has been enough sleeve wear, stepping up viscosity can stave off problems associated with long service bearing components (platter wobble, sleeve noise, etc). Dual used to manufacture a light adhesive grease for top-of-bearing applications for their idlers (the idea was to keep the top of the bearing from drying out). This same grease can be applied to older turntables that begin show play at their sleeve tops.
Another consideration is sonics. Some older tables from the late mono/early stereo era can be improved upon by adding a bed of grease at the bottom of the bearing sump to dampen “rumble”. A single grade oil, more in line with the manufacturer’s recommendation can be applied to areas up the sleeve so the bearing overall has a “parfait” or dual schedule.
It can be a fine line between what micron levels of lube film will bridge the gaps between spindle shaft and sleeve. Ideally the lightest viscosity to bridge that gap is best. You also need to keep a cautious eye to the turntable motor when stepping up viscosity because the drive train may labor under increased friction.
Part of the flexibility is to try different oils and greases on older tables with open eyes and ears and to be ready redo the lubrication until you get it to your liking.

Sansui Louie
04-15-2008, 09:52 AM
Twice a year, I pull the platters on my DD tables and lube the spindle with gun oil as part of a overall maintenance procedure.

These tables are over 30 years old and going strong. They probably didnt receive this level of care until the last 3 years.

I suspect they'll outlast me. After that, they're on their own.

Brett a
04-15-2008, 10:57 AM
I have a Pioneer PL-550 direct drive. I have never oiled anything on it. Should I?
I don’t have a manual for my 550, but I got one for a 530 off Vinyl Engine. I believe they use the same motor and tone arm.

The manual says this:

LUBRICATION:
“Since the PL 530 uses oil-less bearings, no lubrication is required.”

Does that mean it is best not to oil, even 30 years out? If it is good to oil, what should I oil? All the tone arm pivots? the motor spindle?

Any advice would be appreciated ,thanks.

SA-708
04-15-2008, 11:23 AM
I was buying some other turntable parts & accessories from the Panasonic/Technics web site a few years back, and bought a tube of their official lube oil (part # SFW0010) for $5 while I was buying. The service and user manual for my SL-1700Mk2 recommended use of this oil on the platter bearing on a regular basis. I've used it on several Technics machines, and also on the motor bearings of my mother's Dual 1237. I'm not sure exactly what their proprietary oil is, but it's worked OK for me.

Sansui Louie
04-15-2008, 11:24 AM
I have a PL-550 and a pair of PL-570's. I still put a drop or two of oil on the spindle after cleaning the scrunge out from under the platter. The rest of my ritual is to shine the platter with Mother's alum polish, clean everything with Q-tips so that every nook and cranny is spotless, polish the surface with Murphy's Oil Soap, polish all the aluminum and chrome with Mothers using cotton balls and Q tips in the nooks and crannys and soft terry cloths for the rest, Meguires Plastic Cleaner on the dustcover, followed up by checking alignment, tracking force, VTA, stylus condition under a microscope, etc.

iLUVanalog
04-20-2008, 03:08 PM
any car engine oil will be more than sufficient to lube a tiny TT bearing. So don't waste your money on fancy stuff.
Go out to your car, pull the dipstick and collect what remains on the end of the stick.
That is if you don't have a qt. sitting around the garage. If you do have a qt. you can pacakge up a few drops in vials and sell em on ebay for $5 apiece as TURNTABLE LUBRICATING OIL, and start and an ebusiness. But don't forget to charge $5 for shipping and handling.

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT DO THAT! The oil in your car has been circulating all through your engine and believe me, it has picked up all kinds of microscopic crap. You DO NOT want to put that stuff in your turntable bearing shaft!!

If you're going to go the motor oil route, go to Auto Zone and get a brand new can of oil.

Twenty20Man
04-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Thought the only way oil came out of a Yugo was in smoke form.

i think it was from a Yugo that the technique of "cracking" was developed lighter oil ran from the tailpipe....

Twenty20Man
04-20-2008, 04:33 PM
ABSOLUTELY DO NOT DO THAT! The oil in your car has been circulating all through your engine and believe me, it has picked up all kinds of microscopic crap. You DO NOT want to put that stuff in your turntable bearing shaft!!

If you're going to go the motor oil route, go to Auto Zone and get a brand new can of oil.

i really dont believe he was serious, and i dont think anyone who has changed the oil in the car will consider doing this..OK???

Twenty20Man
04-20-2008, 04:48 PM
Joel, thanks for taking time to respond. I have a couple of thoughts, based on what you have said, (very good points all around BTW) and would like your input on them.

Keeping your comments in mind:

Oil voilitility - Sorry can't think of a better term. What I mean is for non-metalic bearing surfaces, some oils may attack the various plastic materials used in a bearing, or on parts adjacent to a bearing.

3 in one vs gun oil - I believe 3 in one is hygroscopic, and gun oils are not. Wouldn't keeping moisture out of the oil be better? corrosion...

Oil weight - With car engines the weight of oil is planned to have it have a certion viscosity and resistance to sheer, at various operarting temperatures, so as to prevent metal to metal contact. There would always be a film of oil between.

With TT's there isn't such severe duty. All you have to worry about is having sufficient viscosity to keep the oil from draining off completely. After that, bearing clearances come into play, tight tolerances may need thinner oil, looser tolerances might need a heavier oil.

Greases - I'd be a bit leary of using any ordinary automotive axle grease. It has a terrible habit of cakeing up just from sitting, which is what we see consistantly in old mechanizims. I have some old cans of grease in my garage collection that is no longer useable, even though it is still "new in can". Its turned from a creamy state to a waxy caked state.

The newer synthetic greases like mobil 1 may be a better choice. M1 was designed for the navy's fighter landing gear and has great specifications. (for automotive use) The downside is that it costs 5-10X what ordinary axle grease. That being said, at around $10 a tube, it's all I use (or reccomend) on my vehicles now, as I mostly work on 4x4's and expect them to see use an ordinary street car won't. (creek crossings etc.) If you can buy it for garage use, certainly the tiny ammout needed for a TT won't be missed.

Re: your comments on WD40, :thmbsp: I'm surprized that no one, (Like maybe me... :stupid:) had mentioned it and it's issues. Your suggested uses are right on. use it to clean, and then get it the heck out of there and a proper lube in. BTW for you gun owners, Since another property of WD40 is to remove rust, and gun blueing is a form of rust, keep WD40 off you guns!

i worked at National Cash Register in the early 70's and we had several greases for shafts, gears, pittmans, etc ..we would mix the grease with a light machine oil till it had a smooth consistency we called it monkey sh*t and it wouldn't dry and cake like grease alone....works good

day67
04-20-2008, 09:58 PM
SA-708, what weight/viscosity, (oh, oh, dont use "weight" here) does this technics oil seem to be/ Very light like machine oil or more like motor oil thickness...if you had to guess?

iLUVanalog
04-20-2008, 10:16 PM
i really dont believe he was serious, and i dont think anyone who has changed the oil in the car will consider doing this..OK???


Fine, so you really don't believe the person was serious about collecting oil from a dipstick from his car engine. However, the original poster posed a serious question and it deserved a serious answer.

SA-708
04-20-2008, 10:17 PM
It is much more like motor oil than, say, sewing machine oil. Can't get more specific than that, not being that familiar with oil. I don't know if here is anything special about it, or if Technics is just repackaging a common lubricant.

SA-708
04-20-2008, 10:36 PM
Fine, so you really don't believe the person was serious about collecting oil from a dipstick from his car engine. However, the original poster posed a serious question and it deserved a serious answer.

You do realize you were responding to posts from January 2005?

zenith2134
05-26-2009, 07:41 PM
Time to bump this one: I contacted Sumiko USA about which oil I should be using on my Pro-Ject Debut III and they told me not to mess with it, or the motor.

While I am not experiencing any troubles with the TT, I thought it would be a good idea to inquire now that I've been using it almost daily for a year (since new).

Suggestions? (FWIW, if I can find motor oil in the correct grade, I'm not against trying it; just not used oil since I have seen the type of sediment and metallic shavings which collect in an oil pan/system.

Infinitoid
05-26-2009, 10:15 PM
I remember getting a small bottle of bearing oil with my then new Technics SL-1300 in 1975. It seemed pretty thin to me. Since then I have been using oil made for valved brass musical instruments. For the last five years that has been Hetman Synthetic Piston Lubricant. Based on the conversation here maybe I should try something thicker :dunno:.

fiddlefye
05-26-2009, 10:27 PM
One tech told me he uses synthetic ATF (automatic transmission fluid) as it has what he considers to be appropriate viscosity (at the rpm a TT runs at, of course) and won't drain off. Just another thought.

zenith2134
05-26-2009, 10:36 PM
fiddlefye, actually that makes perfect sense to me. I have a bit of mechanical background, which can be good at times like this.

MrIgotNomoney
05-26-2009, 11:59 PM
I use a zoom spout/turbine oil for most of my tables and lubrication of olite bearings in motors and have had good luck, no unusual wear. This seemed best in tables that have a closer tolerance bearing, like Fairchild and Thorens, It was a closer match to the original oils. The zoom spout oil is more like a good gun oil, not thin closer to a 20wt.
And use a light synthetic like 0-30 I think for my Rek O Kuts, It seemed a close match to the original Rek O kut oil.
I always thought that 3n1 and WD40 were more a solvent than lubricant.
bob

Brett a
05-27-2009, 11:52 AM
One tech told me he uses synthetic ATF (automatic transmission fluid) as it has what he considers to be appropriate viscosity (at the rpm a TT runs at, of course) and won't drain off. Just another thought.
I did a LOT of online research into spindle oil a few month back when I was trying to address the speed instability of my Rega Planar 2 (turns out it has a slightly eccentric sub-platter). I found that by far, most people in the Rega community anyway (including Rega) recommend 80 weight hypoid gear oil. With the synthetic variety suggested for longer life.

I used 80w gear oil for a while, but last time I had it apart, ended up using Tri-Flo which seems to work well also.

Old_Tech
05-27-2009, 12:19 PM
I did a LOT of online research into spindle oil a few month back when I was trying to address the speed instability of my Rega Planar 2 (turns out it has a slightly eccentric sub-platter). I found that by far, most people in the Rega community anyway (including Rega) recommend 80 weight hypoid gear oil. With the synthetic variety suggested for longer life.

I used 80w gear oil for a while, but last time I had it apart, ended up using Tri-Flo which seems to work well also.

Man thats a high viscosity isn't it? I bought some of that once for a bicycle hub. I thought we were to stay with lower weight oils like sewing machine oils or something similar. Interesting because I have a fair amount of it at home.

Brett a
05-27-2009, 12:33 PM
Man thats a high viscosity isn't it? I bought some of that once for a bicycle hub. I thought we were to stay with lower weight oils like sewing machine oils or something similar. Interesting because I have a fair amount of it at home.
80 weight gear oil is very heavy; almost like soft caramel. Tri-Flo is lighter, but still thicker than sewing machine oil, which I understand is best for finer moving perts but too thin for main bearings.

Coytee
05-27-2009, 02:14 PM
Here's a question for the recent posters to this thread...

Thorens TD 124 and also TD 121... how many drops of oil do you put in them? It can't be too much.

In a general sense..do you want the oil to be (with the platter mounted) 25% up the vertical shaft, 50% up the shaft, all the way to the top? (let it ooze out so it's 100% full after platter is inserted)

?

ZebraBlvd
05-27-2009, 06:06 PM
Here's a question for the recent posters to this thread...

Thorens TD 124 and also TD 121... how many drops of oil do you put in them? It can't be too much.

In a general sense..do you want the oil to be (with the platter mounted) 25% up the vertical shaft, 50% up the shaft, all the way to the top? (let it ooze out so it's 100% full after platter is inserted)

?

I've always just used just a couple three drops in the well on all the Thorens I have, just enough to cover the well bearing. Plus I use a Q-tip to apply a thin film of oil on the bearing shaft before placing the platter back in the well. That way the walls of the well, the shaft and the bearing itself are lubricated from the get go.

OvenMaster
05-27-2009, 10:52 PM
I found that my bronze motor bearings had to be soaked in gasoline to get the oil out, washed in IPA, dried, and then heated in Mobil 1 10W-30 to about 150°F to make 'em absorb new oil.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2181038&postcount=16

The platter got a few drops of that same Mobil 1 as well. The results have been great. No more rumble, the motor stays cool, and the strobe marks don't even slow down anymore during an arm cycle.

Tom

Old_Tech
05-27-2009, 10:58 PM
I've always just used just a couple three drops in the well on all the Thorens I have, just enough to cover the well bearing. Plus I use a Q-tip to apply a thin film of oil on the bearing shaft before placing the platter back in the well. That way the walls of the well, the shaft and the bearing itself are lubricated from the get go.

This sounds exactly right. :thmbsp:

BigManAndy
05-28-2009, 02:38 AM
I have a SL-1200mk5 and when I ordered the hinge kit I just ordered the Technics oil right from them (KAB). Don't make the mistake I made, it came in a little dropper bottle and the top was sealed so I took a knife and chopped the tip off to open it, well a little splashed into my eyes, lemme tell you what! That stuff BURNS!!!! haha

couple drops every 2k hours, that little dropper will last me, well forever!

iLUVanalog
05-29-2009, 09:13 PM
Using motor oil from the end of a dip stick is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Do you have any idea how close the tolerance is on a TT bearing. Now lets throw some metal shavings from you cars oil in there. Think before giving piss poor advice like that !

And yes I will spend MY money however I choose.



i TOTALLY agree with grumpy on this. WHY ON EARTH would you purposely insert microscopic metal pieces and shavings from your car's motor into your turntable bearing shaft????? those tiny metal pieces will completely ruin the bearing shaft.

whatever you do, DO NOT GO TO YOUR CAR, TAKE THE OIL DIPSTICK OUT AND THEN LET DROPS OF OIL INTO THE BEARING SHAFT OF YOUR TURNTABLE!!! DON'T DO IT.

Old_Tech
05-29-2009, 11:12 PM
I saw a photo essay on an AR restoration over at Vinyl Engine. The fella documented the whole process it was very good. In the back of one of the shots was a plastic bottle of 5w-30 motor oil (virgin) he had used on the pivot and platter bearings.

Van_Isle
05-30-2009, 02:19 AM
I have a "precision oiler" from TheSource here in Canada with the following description:

"Precision oiler. Precision tip fits into hard to reach places. Ideal for electronic equipment, toys and appliances. Sticks to surface and will not wash off."

The oil has teflon in it and is fairly thick.

Do you guys think that would work? Seems to me the teflon might be good for older bearings that might not have seen oil in a long time?

sweet2ear
12-13-2012, 05:25 PM
These are the various lubricants that B&O recommends.
Synthetics, teflon, silicone......


http://www.rocol.com/products/kilopoise-high-viscosity-damping-grease
http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/hell-ISOFLEX_PDP_61_A_Fernschreib-K.pdf
http://www.ellsworth.com/dow-corning/molykote/?gclid=CI7B3u60mLQCFcN_QgodZCYAbw
https://www.fmv.se/FTP/Drivmedel/M7789-000183%20svensk%20utg%C3%A5va/datablad/M0743-109000_Barrierta_L55_2.pdf

arcorob
12-13-2012, 05:33 PM
Regardless of what dual says or anything else, Sewing machine oil is absolutely the best bearing oil. It is a light machine oil made for many revolutions, does not collect dirt, doesnt turn to goo and in terms of "wasting money"..can anyone spare $2.99 ? http://www.amazon.com/4-oz-Sewing-Machine-Oil/dp/B000H8Q41Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355437771&sr=8-1&keywords=sewing+machine+oil

The problem with motor oil is its too thick and is made to COLLECT CRUD, plus most have detergent additives which you don;t want in a turntable bearing.

Common sense. Think of what sewing machine oil is used in and what it does/lubricates and think of what motor oil does.

Sorry to be so adament, not intending to be but of this I know. Even 3 in 1 oil is not recommended due to its propensity to gum up.

illini
12-13-2012, 06:23 PM
The problem with motor oil .

Depends on the bearing. I have a Denon bearing that consists of a stainless steel rod floating in a brass cylinder-bushing. Heavy motor oil works fine for that type.

ole_oxford
12-13-2012, 06:31 PM
My 1970's Technics 1200 Mark I still has the original oil container. I use it according to prescribed application but should I be worried that the oil is pushing 40? I know that oils can break down over time even if they're not in use such as the conventional engine oil change interval of 3k miles or 3 months.

jleon92f
12-13-2012, 09:39 PM
I use NEW 30w motor oil,seems to work fine for me. Using oil from the end of a dipstick? Would you put used oil in your car?

Have fun,
1 Qt NEW oil cost $3-4.00. It will last for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOG time.

Thanks for the laughs,:D
John.:music:

lini
12-14-2012, 10:15 AM
Rob: I don't concur, 'cause sewing machine oil usually has a pretty low viscosity - quite a good bit lower than the Renotac 342/343 oils used by Dual, so I would be worried about the long term effects a too light oil might cause...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

arcorob
12-14-2012, 10:35 AM
Rob: I don't concur, 'cause sewing machine oil usually has a pretty low viscosity - quite a good bit lower than the Renotac 342/343 oils used by Dual, so I would be worried about the long term effects a too light oil might cause...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

I respect what you say and you are probably right in the end. But I use sewing machine oil for a reason. It is a light machine oil, and yes, lower viscosity. But many small motor will have a small hole and stamped - Use 2 drops of light machine oil.

Similarly, I consider this to be a light machine oil situation for several reasons.

1) The object is to lubricate the moving parts and prevent friction. That is accomplished
2) Higher viscosity means higher drag - A turntable motor just doesn't have that kind of torque to effectively use 30w oil
3) Higher drag can have the opposite effect in making the motor work harder to maintain speed
4) Motor oil with higher viscosity tends to gum over time as it ages..sweing machine oil can be there for 50 years and not turn to goo

Anyway, like I say, you may be perfectly correct and I worry about nothing ...but I prefer my method :D

You know, have not seen you around much...how are you ?

totem
12-14-2012, 11:11 AM
Over the years many TT manufactures have used various
bearing designs and tolerances that are tied to a specific range of acceptable lubrication viscosity's.

Therefor no single oil or viscosity should be considered universal unless applied to
a specific set of requirements.

marcmorin
12-14-2012, 11:48 AM
I respect what you say and you are probably right in the end. But I use sewing machine oil for a reason. It is a light machine oil, and yes, lower viscosity. But many small motor will have a small hole and stamped - Use 2 drops of light machine oil.

Similarly, I consider this to be a light machine oil situation for several reasons.

1) The object is to lubricate the moving parts and prevent friction. That is accomplished
2) Higher viscosity means higher drag - A turntable motor just doesn't have that kind of torque to effectively use 30w oil
3) Higher drag can have the opposite effect in making the motor work harder to maintain speed
4) Motor oil with higher viscosity tends to gum over time as it ages..sweing machine oil can be there for 50 years and not turn to goo

Anyway, like I say, you may be perfectly correct and I worry about nothing ...but I prefer my method :D

You know, have not seen you around much...how are you ?

Folks.........viscosity and lubricity are not the same thing.
Viscosity refers to how sticky something is. Granted, an oil cannot lubricate if its not there. A general rule on Lubricity and Viscosity is the higher the viscosity, the lower the lubricity. Going by automotive standards for a viscosity rating is almost irrelevant in the bearing dynamics of a shaft running in a hole @33.3RPM. The only place where any EP additive to any oil matters is at the point of thrust. The best known EP additive is molybdenum due to its natural ability to slip at pressure as high as 550,000 PSI.
The film strength of an oil in a bearing sleeve is more determined on the surface finish of the shaft and sleeve. The film strength of an oil at point of thrust is determined first by finish, second by the hydocarbon chain.
Automotive oil lubricity is designed to be at its peak at 165deg F. Standard refined motor oil loses 50% lubricity at 210 deg, and then halves every 10 deg rise in temperature. Synthetics (depending on manufacturer) retain lubricty at higher temps than standard oils, but do not have any lubricity advantage at room temperatures under the standards they were designed for.