I'm looking for info and pics if possible on this turntable.

I have an oppurtunity to buy one from someone at work but would like some opinions first.

A google search came up with some B&O TTs but not this model.
All I found out was that it was made between 1979-1983.

Also, anyone know the Blue Book value of this TT?

Thanks

Hi JozMo;

Specs from Stereo Review Buyer's Guide 1982.

No pic of the 1600 but found a pic of the later 1602

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/4133/bo1602.jpg


Rgds

Well Joz,

You've come to the right place - it happens that I have the factory promotional brochure for this model. Let's delve into it a little....

First, it was not the top of the line. Instead, it was either the 3rd or 4th one, depending on the exact date of manufature. What you give up is an essentially worthless remote control capability and the tonearm/tracking weight is a bit heavier than their TOTL. On the plus side, it comes with an MMC20E cartridge which again, while not the TOTL, is a member of the excellent MMC20 series of the late '70's.

Like all B&O table of this vintage, it's quite good looking. With the rosewood trim and smoked plastic cover, it's very WAF friendly. It was fully automatic, with a kind of early logic capability. Just place the record on the spindle, press 'start', and it determined the size and speed of the record before playing.

Orions lists this table as having a retail value of $83. I think that reflects last years' more optimistic prices. If you like it, and assuming the one you're considering is decent with no cracks or damage, I'd say $50 or less would be a good deal. (Any more and I'd pass, as there are 'higher up the food chain' models that don't cost that much more, especially considering that upgrading to a better cartridge is very costly. Better to pay more to get a higher line TT with the better cart. already installed. Just my .02)

Here's a closeup of the controls and platter. I didn't want to mangle my own brochure to make scans so I swiped the pics from my favorite B&O site, beoworld.co.uk

The MMC20E cartridge deserves a closer look. Again, this is lifted from the Beoworld site--

In 1958, Bang & Olufsen introduced the first stereo pickup cartridge ever made in Europe. This was called the SP1. Since then, many design innovations and the creative use of new materials have kept B&O's cartridges at the forefront of audio technology. By 1979 - 80, Bang & Olufsen's cartridges were represented by the MMC 20 series. MMC stands for 'Moving Micro-Cross'; the patented moving-iron principle upon which all B&O cartridges were based. This unique system employed a cross-shaped armature which, among other advantages, guaranteed exceptional stereo separation since each channel moves on a separate axis.

Here's a pic of the MMC20 line-up. The "E" is the second one down.

The caption reads "MMC20E was fitted with a framed elliptical diamond with a very high polish. Recommended tracking force: 1,5g; Effective Tip Mass: 0,5mg".

Can you stand a little more info?:) From the Beoworld site--

Record wear and the cartridge
If you take music seriously the value of your record collection is likely to be high. Many of your records are likely to be irreplaceable. You will also know that the signals pressed into your vinyl discs are very fragile indeed. The pickup cartridge can be the disc's worse enemy since an ill-suited cartridge can mark a record for life in a single play.

While B&O is aware that cartridge specifications are inter-related, their research shows consistently that Effective Tip Mass (ETM) is one of the major factors affecting record wear. ETM is the equivalent of the amount of inertia the groove 'sees' in moving or accelerating the stylus tip. Consequently, the higher the ETM value, the higher the force required for a given constant acceleration. Obviously, more force results in more wear.

Three elements contribute to ETM. The stylus tip (diamond) contributes with its entire weight and mass. The armature contributes between 5 - 20% of its weight and mass; the cantilever around 30%. B&O has been able to reduce ETM substantially by refining these elements and building them into an integrated unit. The result is a system which not only reduces damage to the groove walls dramatically, but also provides exceptional performance at all frequencies.

Bang & Olufsen cartridges have always been highly acclaimed for their low ETM values. The ETM of the MMC 20CL is a mere 0,3mg and in the standard MMC 20 range,, only 0,5mg.

MMC cartridges were manufactured by Bang & Olufsen as totally integrated units. This means that the elements were matched, balanced and sealed at the factory. Using a computer-supported testing programme,, each sealed unit was meticulously tested and it's performance information automatically registered and packed with each cartridge. The information given included output voltage, relative voltage output (channel balance), channel separation and frequency response. Individually-calibrated frequency response curves were also supplied with the higher-specified MMC 20CL cartridges.

Excellent Jay. Just what I was looking for... can never get enough of good, reliable information.

Thanks again

I know I can only use B&O's cartridges but are the cartridges still available for the 1600 if I ever need to replace it?
Thanks

JoZmo

I owe you an apology. I looks like I was wromg about the value of the 1600. Take a look at this just concluded ebay auction....http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1941276740

Better $$ than I thought! :cool:

As for new cartridges, none of the sites, including the official B&O site, were any use. My sense is that the superb MMC20CL will fit.

The bad news is, an ebay check of good used or NOS cartridges of this caliber shows they go for $100-$150 routinely. A new aftermarket cart. costs as much as $450 for the best ones. Staggeringly high money to spend for a used 20 year old TT, at least to a cheapskate like me. My own 3404, with its second-from-the-top-of-the-line MMC20EN cart is worth maybe $120-$140 on ebay. Since the cart. is 'low mileage', it'll bring almost that much alone. That makes a B&O TT without a cart. nearly worthless. Does this explain why they're a common sight on ebay?

If only the best cartridge will do, it may be wise to hold out for the 'upper echelons' in the TT heirarchy. They already have the better cartridge. Why pay for it twice?

For another perspective, there's a very entertaining, opinionated guy who used to post on AA under the name Joe Rosen who swears by the B&O MMC20CL cartridge. IIRC, he even went to the trouble of custom making a mount so he could use that cart on his non-B&O TT. He claims it beats any cart out there. I think you'd enjoy searching the archives to find his posts, just don't forget to strap on your flame suit first.;):uzi:

SUPER INFO JAY !! :zoom:

Excellent job!! You get the AK award for excellence ! :king:

Nothing I can add (although I'm flattered you asked)! :-)

I think the MMC cartridges are real gems based on my very limited experience. There is NOTHING wrong with the BOTL MMC4, which is still available and not outrageously expensive.

Also, IME, the tangential tracking tt's are the way to go... but I must confess I haven't heard a swing-arm b&o since about 1980.