View Full Version : 1970's European Receivers/Amps....any good..??


Quadrocker
07-22-2010, 03:13 AM
I'm just curious...

...there's almost no info on a lot of interesting looking European brands from the 70's (Itt/Grundig/Blaupunkt/Braun/Telefunken..etc).
Has anyone out there got any of this stuff...? Does it compare sound-wise with the Japanese and American stuff from the same period..? or not..?

Although it's centered on the 70's...If anyone has any cool Euro stuff from any other era to add info on, that's cool too.

...any nice photo's would be super too..:D

guiller
07-22-2010, 07:33 AM
A friend of mine swears by his Tandberg receiver (with Tandberg speakers).

KLH9
07-22-2010, 08:05 AM
Bang & Olufsen made some nice stuff back then. The were not powerful enough to rip nails out of the wall but they looked and sounded nice

http://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=338

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/dantiques/46000b/46624.jpg

KentTeffeteller
07-22-2010, 10:04 AM
There's a reason why these receivers are so rarely spoken of. They weren't sold much outside Europe and usually paired with efficient speakers. Tandberg had the best European receivers as a whole. Especially the better Huldras and TR series. B&O had some nice units but usually lower powered and not suited as well to driving our inefficient acoustic suspension speakers which were de rigeur back then.

SoCal Sam
07-22-2010, 10:10 AM
Get a Tandberg TR-2075 or TR-2080. They are the best, IMHO.

KLH9
07-22-2010, 12:32 PM
I worked in a small shop that was a B & O dealer back in the mid 70's when the 1900 and 2400 were first brought out. We sold a LOT of them paired with B & O speakers and B & O turntables.

At that time B & O gear was light years ahead of everyone else in design and function. Wireless full function remote in the mid 70's. Touch controls (no visible knobs, sliders under the lift up "hood"). People loved them as there was nothing like it anywhere for any amount of money, and these were not cheap by any stretch of the imagination.

Tinman
07-22-2010, 12:49 PM
Probably why my 2 favorite systems are B&O and Revox.

I started with a Beomaster 2400 and loved it for many years. It didn't have that much power, but it had clean power.

guiller
07-22-2010, 04:16 PM
There's a reason why these receivers are so rarely spoken of. They weren't sold much outside Europe and usually paired with efficient speakers.

Itīs always nice to find a good reason behind history. Thanks for sharing your views on this fact.

Quadrocker
07-22-2010, 06:09 PM
There's a reason why these receivers are so rarely spoken of. They weren't sold much outside Europe and usually paired with efficient speakers. Tandberg had the best European receivers as a whole. Especially the better Huldras and TR series. B&O had some nice units but usually lower powered and not suited as well to driving our inefficient acoustic suspension speakers which were de rigeur back then.

The Tandberg and B&O stuff seems to be the most common outside of Europe. My own suspicion was that unlike American hi-fi companies that switched manufacturing from the U.S. to Japan to stay competitive, many European companies stubbornly continued to continue manufacturing in Europe with all the competitive (price) disadvantages that involved.

I seem to remember a lot of this European stuff was rather more expensive (..and very uncompetitive with} than similarly spec-ed Japanese equipment back then....that might explain the rarity as well.

...still... there's gotta be SOME?? people out there with 1970's Itt's or Blaupunkt's or Grundig's or Braun's or Telefunkens's ......:scratch2:....were any of these brands equipment as good as the Tandberg stuff??....any rare "sleeper" European 1970's stuff out there...??

Vinylcalle
07-22-2010, 07:45 PM
The Tandberg and B&O stuff seems to be the most common outside of Europe. My own suspicion was that unlike American hi-fi companies that switched manufacturing from the U.S. to Japan to stay competitive, many European companies stubbornly continued to continue manufacturing in Europe with all the competitive (price) disadvantages that involved.

I seem to remember a lot of this European stuff was rather more expensive (..and very uncompetitive with} than similarly spec-ed Japanese equipment back then....that might explain the rarity as well.

...still... there's gotta be SOME?? people out there with 1970's Itt's or Blaupunkt's or Grundig's or Braun's or Telefunkens's ......:scratch2:....were any of these brands equipment as good as the Tandberg stuff??....any rare "sleeper" European 1970's stuff out there...??

You got the Swedish Sentec stuff that still today is quite highly regarded here in Sweden, as well as the Sonab electronics even though theyīre not as good as the speakers.

But here in Europe we have probably and still are better in manufacture speakers and not to mention turntables and cartridges (ortofon for example), in USA thereīs high end/high powered amplifiers and speakers (not so much smaller ones) and in Japan theres electronics but more or less no speaker production at all.

If it werenīt for the Pioneer HPMīs there could have been a similar topic in the speakers forum except it would have been Japanese speakers.

Best Regards/Carl

jdurbin1
07-22-2010, 08:46 PM
Philips? Hello?

John

REDone
07-22-2010, 09:06 PM
I've had a couple by Leak ... an amp & a receiver both solid state
They were OK .. polite presentation is the way to describe them .. but not a patch on the 70's Yamaha units I now own


My first amp was a Roger Ravensbrook in the 70's I thought this was special compared to my mate's Leak amp. Rogers was about 15 amp. I used efficient Wharfedale Linton speakers at that time.

The british Hifi press was xenophobic from late 70's on so a lot of good Japanese gear was never given reviews -

Slightly different in Germany where US forces brought in all sorts of gear & there is a far broader range of secondhand gear available now

UK marques to look for are Quad Mission Audiolab Arcam .. I've never owned Quad but have used Mission & Arcam & rate them. Audiolab I never liked much
I still use the Mission DAD 7000 CD player in preference to a Yamaha CDX880

70's gear is a bit less choice from the UK but 80's onwards theres a pile of manuf's to choose from & some of them produced very fine stuff indeed .. and then some of them hyped up the market & I personally have little patience with that kind of marketing.

Old_School
07-22-2010, 10:10 PM
I have a shedload of Blaupunkt car audio stuff, including one of the really rare (over here) Berlin cassette decks from the early 80s. The one with the gooseneck remote control. In fact, it's still in the box - never installed (too many holes to drill for the installation - something I didn't want to do).

The only home piece I have, other than my Revox A77, is a Dual amp. I forget the model, but it's a whopping 15-20wpc and uses DIN connectors for everything, which is why I haven't even hooked it up since I got it for $10 at a garage sale.

I've been really close to buying some Quad stuff, but it always fetches on the high side, so I've not given in (yet).

Quadrocker
07-23-2010, 02:13 AM
Philips? Hello?

John

...thanks John...

...I forgot about Phillips...

Their late 70's stuff is fairly common and seems to be highly regarded, but the early 70's stuff, I rarely hear mentioned.

Another one of the rare euro brands I forgot about was WEGA, which rebadged some of the Sony Japanese Vfet amps and a elcaset deck, and possibly a couple more others for the Euro market in addition to their own stuff. They also had some nicely styled (..retro/futuristic) equipment in the early to mid 70's.

There's a lot of nice brochure pictures of a lot of this euro stuff....but no info on sound quality...at this site here for the curious...http://wegavision.pytalhost.com/

JohnVF
07-23-2010, 02:24 AM
I've never had a European receiver (I want a Tandberg 2075 or 2080 badly), but I've had two European amps. A Revox B242 and Heybrook P2. Both were very special sounding pieces of equipment. The Revox was my introduction to separates, trying it out for a friend who'd repaired it, and it really put the hook in me. I'm still sad I missed out on a Revox receiver in Barter Town a few weeks ago...that was going to be my second system and I had dreams of putting some formidable opponents on the sidelines with it, if it sounded anything iike the B242.

c_dk
07-23-2010, 08:09 AM
When I started in the business in 78 we sold Tandberg decks, added Revox and B&O to our lineup in 80. We were selling 3 or 4 Mac receivers and at 3 B&O a month. That pretty much takes the air out of selling too many other expensive peices.

Firby13
07-23-2010, 08:56 AM
I've never had a European receiver (I want a Tandberg 2075 or 2080 badly),
JohnVF,
When you get one, pop on those 103.2 Kef's.
I love my 3000 separates with them.
YMMV,
Steve

fiddlefye
07-23-2010, 11:19 AM
I haven't owned a lot of European gear, but the Quad 520f power amp I have and the Revox RTR decks are wonderful stuff. I've bid on more Tandberg 2075 and 2080 receivers than I care to recall, but they always go for more than I'm willing to come up with. I'd LOVE to get my hands on one of the Revox tuners, amps or receivers but that looks unlikely unless I just walk into a deal as (like the Tandbergs) they just draw too much $$$$ for my budget. I'm not saying they aren't worth the price they get, though. Love to hear a few more and make up my own mind about that!:D

jdurbin1
07-23-2010, 01:34 PM
I drive a pair of ADS L710's with my 2080. My 3000-series system is running a pair of JBL L150A's but I have a cherry set of L1290/2 waiting to swap into that system. Can't wait to hear that combo...

John

JohnVF,
When you get one, pop on those 103.2 Kef's.
I love my 3000 separates with them.
YMMV,
Steve

sereethai
07-23-2010, 05:33 PM
hi there
have a telefunken receiver,a real beast 20kg and play very well :yes:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8364/telefunken2.jpg (http://img826.imageshack.us/i/telefunken2.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3078/telefunken.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/telefunken.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
:thmbsp: also some philips amp and recever from the 70's very good and underquoted here

fmueller
07-23-2010, 05:43 PM
I was born in Germany in 1967, and lived there until 1995. One of my friends was really into hifi stuff, and initially used a big old Marantz receiver. He later had a huge Nakamichi system, including two Dragons. AFAIK he still has the stuff. My cousin had a Philips component system that made him a laughing stock, since it exemplified black plastic crap, but certainly had not been cheap. Another good friend had an ITT receiver with home made speakers, which was better than the Philips system, but still low end. It took me a long time to accumulate the money to buy a good system, and when I did, I decided on Denon. I had also considered NAD, and less seriously Yamaha and Onkyo. I never seriously looked into German or other European brands, because the value for money just wasn't there.

Only for speakers I went with a German design - ATL HD 304s. I still have them, and they are still my favorite speaker despite having owned Infinity RS4b, Paradigm 11se MkII, JBL Decade 26, to name just a few. If you ever come across a pair of ATL speakers at a reasonable price, don't hesitate.

Also for car audio, IMHO you can't go wrong with vintage MacAudio - excellent speakers, but also amps and head units.

If you want to explore the European amp/receiver scene further, why not browse eBay Germany. There is plenty of stuff on there, and prices will indicate how well it is respected. I admit I had never done this myself, but just found the East German (DDR) made amplifier below. How cool is that!

http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/XkCLUhSQq7.jpg

thilaseen
07-23-2010, 07:00 PM
I've been about to ask the same question for the past couple of years but never got round to it. I've got a Grundig Receiver R48 Super HiFi from 1979.
I used it for a couple of years but found it a bit inconvenient because of the total use of DIN connections...it just made it a PITA swapping speakers so I switched that system to a Rotel RX-602.
If the thread keeps going I can post a pic later today when my son turns up with the (my) dig. camera. :D

PS... Bugger it..now you've got me going. It was going to be a lazy bludging Saturday here but now I'm inclined to dig it out and hook it up again for another listen. :music:

Wazz
07-23-2010, 07:07 PM
I was just looking at some of the B&O exotic looking receivers and thinking that I had seen them in stores in the 70s. Some of the stuff posted about them says some of them had tech. issues with the amplifiers. Overheating? Maybe that was from people overloading them but they sure looked cool. With the matching TTs. Expensive.

Quadrocker
07-23-2010, 07:10 PM
If you want to explore the European amp/receiver scene further, why not browse eBay Germany. There is plenty of stuff on there, and prices will indicate how well it is respected.

Browsing ebay Germany is an excellent idea....I've occasionally wandered over to the European Vintage Hi-Fi Shop/sites, but the prices have made me gasp. Vintage hi-fi is VERY expensive over there...Waaaay out of my price range. I'll just have to hang out for something interesting to turn up here in Australia.

Thanks for posting the photo's...
I don't think I've ever seen an East German amp before...and I've also never seen the Telefunken model TR-1200 posted earlier...

...if any else has any more photo's of any interesting Euro stuff...keep em comin'...

KentTeffeteller
07-23-2010, 08:37 PM
Something else to consider. The Bang & Olufsen receivers and Tandberg receivers were priced in McIntosh territory and made them harder to sell in the USA. And the ReVox amps and receivers were also very high priced. And the B&O gear needed service rather more often and most technicians hated repairing them. And parts for B&O and Tandberg gear had to be purchased from dealers with their markups.

Nat
07-23-2010, 09:14 PM
Armstrong 626 -- moderate priced reciever, good looking, and exceptional sound. Even the mainline audio press noted that it sounded better than the competition, even though in general they usually said most decent pieces sounded pretty similar.
I shouldn't bring it up because I hope to get one at some point -- been looking since 1976 or so -- and they are not common in the US, so all you guys will run the price up out of my range.
It was also available as an integrated amp and tuner, but the OP was about recievers.

fmueller
07-24-2010, 01:10 AM
The good thing about importing European stuff to Australia is that you are dealing with the same voltage, while US gear is next to useless due to the need for 120V. I know because my wife (a Kiwi) and I moved from Germany to the US to Australia and back to the US. Each move meant a complete replacement of anything that plugs into a wall outlet.

Second hand prices in Oz have always been a mystery to me. When I lived in Canberra I was big time into camera gear. New stuff in Oz was super expensive - so much so that I could order a Leitz slide projector from Germany for half the price what a similar model would cost in a shop in Canberra - and that's already taking shipping, tax, and customs fees into account! On the other hand, I managed to buy used SLR cameras and lenses for peanuts at places like Cash Converters. I sold them via eBay to the US, and that's how I could afford a Leitz slide projector :D

On a different note, isn't that east German amp the ugliest piece of gear you have ever seen! But it was probably a choice of using that or singing yourself if you wanted music. Plus I guess you had to be on a waiting list for years and kiss the behinds of those with power in the party to get one at all. Truly a piece of history!

KLH9
07-24-2010, 01:39 AM
Something else to consider. The Bang & Olufsen receivers and Tandberg receivers were priced in McIntosh territory and made them harder to sell in the USA. And the ReVox amps and receivers were also very high priced. And the B&O gear needed service rather more often and most technicians hated repairing them. And parts for B&O and Tandberg gear had to be purchased from dealers with their markups.

When I was selling Fi in the mid 70's a complete B&O system (2800 receiver, 4000 table, and the larger S60 speakers with stands) was priced about the same as a GAS son of ampzilla, Thoebe, and DQ10 with a decent turn table thrown in.

We sold more B&O systems than we sold GAS/Dalquist systems. Something about all that Rosewood and the modern design appealed to people more than uninteresting rack mount and black.

Personally I went with the brute power and got an Ampzilla on accommodation. Still have it too....

Quadrocker
07-24-2010, 07:25 AM
Armstrong 626 -- moderate priced reciever, good looking, and exceptional sound. Even the mainline audio press noted that it sounded better than the competition, even though in general they usually said most decent pieces sounded pretty similar.
I shouldn't bring it up because I hope to get one at some point -- been looking since 1976 or so -- and they are not common in the US, so all you guys will run the price up out of my range.
It was also available as an integrated amp and tuner, but the OP was about recievers.

There's a little vintage hi-fi shop here in Melbourne that I wander into every Saturday, and literally TODAY I heard a Armstrong Receiver for the first time...a Tube model from the late 60's (...it was already sold)...and it sounded very nice.

The good thing about importing European stuff to Australia is that you are dealing with the same voltage, while US gear is next to useless due to the need for 120V. I know because my wife (a Kiwi) and I moved from Germany to the US to Australia and back to the US. Each move meant a complete replacement of anything that plugs into a wall outlet.

....the voltage thing is a real pain....it's handy for importing Euro stuff but there's heaps of real nice US tube stuff from the 60's I'd love to get but they are all 120volt. I'll bet a few people in the US would have loved to get some of the cool futuristic looking early 70's Euro stuff back then and couldn't thanks to the voltage difference.

It really didn't make a lot of sense :screwy: when the euro (and US) hi-fi industry was battling the Japanese stuff for sales to not make their equipment multi-voltage (..with a handful of exceptions..) like much of the Japanese stuff was in the 70's so it could be exported without fuss. Many U.S. branded Hi-Fi items made in Japan were 120V only and yet a lot of new Japanese multi-voltage equipment sold in Australia in the 70's was actually imported (...heavily marked up) from the U.S. by Aussie Hi-Fi stores when the exchange rate was good and sold complete with bent US plugs to fit our sockets...!!:sigh:

Firby13
07-24-2010, 09:36 AM
My 3000-series system is running a pair of JBL L150A's

I have a cherry set of those out in the barn awaiting foam.
Once they're done I'll try them out on the Tandberg.
They were supposed to be going back with the Luxman C120a and two M120a's
that they came with.
Regards, Steve

JohnVF
07-24-2010, 10:46 AM
JohnVF,
When you get one, pop on those 103.2 Kef's.
I love my 3000 separates with them.
YMMV,
Steve

That's the plan! The 103.2s are in the system where I rotate receivers and integrated amps. Be nice to stop rotating with a 2080 or 2075. There's a 2045 locally but I want a little more power.

Jeff's Class
07-25-2010, 12:29 PM
The good thing about importing European stuff to Australia is that you are dealing with the same voltage, while US gear is next to useless due to the need for 120V. I know because my wife (a Kiwi) and I moved from Germany to the US to Australia and back to the US. Each move meant a complete replacement of anything that plugs into a wall outlet.

I recently moved from the US to Norway, and am using two vintage US systems (Concept 2.5 and Pioneer SX-434) with no problem. The key is to purchase a high quality transformer. I think I spent about $100 for each of the 1kW transformers, and $300 for a 5kW that I don't even need. I have a 2kW on my home theater system, a Denon 2909 105 wpc. I did buy a new sub from Parts Express to bring over that runs on 220 or 110, I was concerned that peak power would exceed the 5kW transformer.

A friend has a nice Pioneer TT over here that has a speed adjustment that he used to tune out the 50 hz/60 hz difference, so you can definitely use US receivers and tt's with adjustments, tape probably wouldn't work though.

Best of Luck!
Jeff

P.S. Hoping to score a nice Tandberg while I'm here to bring home, the transformers will also convert 110 to 220 when I get back to the States.

EDIT: FYI, left the nice big stuff (Sansui 9090, Pioneer SX-950) at home, concerned about damage during shipment, but the 9090 has a 110/220 switch on the back

legal eagle
07-31-2010, 03:51 AM
I was always curious to test a SABA 9241. Looks mean.

jdurbin1
07-31-2010, 03:47 PM
You probably won't need the transformer for any Tandberg gear you pick up; the majority of it has configurable primaries on the internal transformer so you can run 120V/220V/240V (older models like the TR 2000-series receivers and TCD 300/400 decks), or 115V/230V in the case of the newer 3000-series components.

John

I recently moved from the US to Norway, and am using two vintage US systems (Concept 2.5 and Pioneer SX-434) with no problem. The key is to purchase a high quality transformer. I think I spent about $100 for each of the 1kW transformers, and $300 for a 5kW that I don't even need. I have a 2kW on my home theater system, a Denon 2909 105 wpc. I did buy a new sub from Parts Express to bring over that runs on 220 or 110, I was concerned that peak power would exceed the 5kW transformer.

A friend has a nice Pioneer TT over here that has a speed adjustment that he used to tune out the 50 hz/60 hz difference, so you can definitely use US receivers and tt's with adjustments, tape probably wouldn't work though.

Best of Luck!
Jeff

P.S. Hoping to score a nice Tandberg while I'm here to bring home, the transformers will also convert 110 to 220 when I get back to the States.

EDIT: FYI, left the nice big stuff (Sansui 9090, Pioneer SX-950) at home, concerned about damage during shipment, but the 9090 has a 110/220 switch on the back

cornwallguy
07-31-2010, 08:17 PM
[QUOTE=Quadrocker;3864011]...thanks John...

...I forgot about Phillips...

Their late 70's stuff is fairly common and seems to be highly regarded, but the early 70's stuff, I rarely hear mentioned.

My Dad had an early 70's Phillips system whose model# i cant remember now, but the sound was really really good ! it had their Deforest series speakers.
in fact he liked it so much he went out an bought another Phillips set of smaller bookshelf speakers with a full range 5" and was the best speaker system i had heard for the size at that time !

HarmanKardon
09-09-2010, 03:19 AM
This one was from 1980, almost seventies.

It is the most powerful receiver ever built by Bang&Olufsen. 150/100 WPC but I can tell you Beo WPC seem to be somehow special, extremly powerful, they remind me of Marantz WPC!

It weighs 44 pounds and is nearly 70 cm wide.

HarmanKardon
09-09-2010, 05:45 AM
Unfortunately the thread is restricted to the seventies. I got pretty much european amps and recs from the sixties.

guiller
09-09-2010, 07:15 AM
Unfortunately the thread is restricted to the seventies. I got pretty much european amps and recs from the sixties.

Go ahead and start a new thread then!

Quadrocker
09-09-2010, 08:10 PM
Unfortunately the thread is restricted to the seventies. I got pretty much european amps and recs from the sixties.

It's my thread, and when I started it, I didn't think there would be enough people with 60's Euro stuff to include the 60's.....so if you (..or anyone else) want's to add some info on 60's European stuff...you go right ahead....There's so little info on Euro stuff, any info from any era is fine...:thmbsp:

P.S. I've changed the initial thread description comments to allow stuff from the 60's....or any other era to be added....

Cheers...:)

HarmanKardon
09-10-2010, 06:06 AM
Quadrocker hey thats nice that somebody is interested in my stuff:yes:, my non-virtual friends and my family arent...:no:

So I start with a receiver from the seventies, and later some from the sixties.

It is a Ferguson 3482. Massive. Sturdy. Elegant. A fine XXXXX-rare receiver.

HarmanKardon
09-10-2010, 06:11 AM
At the back there is a sticker with this:

"Manufactured by British Radio Corporation Ltd (Thorn), Bampton Rd, Harold Hill, Essex, England"

guiller
09-10-2010, 07:48 AM
At the back there is a sticker with this:

"Manufactured by British Radio Corporation Ltd (Thorn), Bampton Rd, Harold Hill, Essex, England"

It has a style resembling Philips or even early Tandberg gear,

HarmanKardon
09-10-2010, 09:30 AM
You are absolutely right, and it reminds me also of my B&O Beomaster 3000 and Beomaster 4000!

Pepa
09-10-2010, 12:02 PM
My little contribution...
I had several European receivers,and this two come to my mind first.
Revox B-780,from 1980'
Beautiful, warm sound.For many years was the reference receiver in the European hi-fi press.80 watt per channel /8ohms RMS,17 kg.
Really must have for monster receiver collector.
Some pictures of my last Revox:
http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/pepa131/Revox/4.jpg

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/pepa131/Revox/3.jpg

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/pepa131/Revox/1.jpg

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/pepa131/Revox/7.jpg

and Grundig R-2000
I had that receiver twenty years ago.50 watt per channel /8ohms RMS,and arround 15 kg.At the same time Marantz 2252b (mine) and Sansui G-9000 (from friend of mine) was on shelf for testing purpose.Speakers was some small standmount, 2way, AR model.Can not remember which one.Sound of that ugly duck was far,far away better then Marantz (sorry Marantz fans),and very close to Sansui to my ears.More tube like,while Marantz sound too harsh to me.But must admit,none of them have been restored.
OK,some images borrowed from web:

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/pepa131/Grundig/r2000-11.jpg

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/pepa131/Grundig/r2000-13.jpg

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/pepa131/Grundig/r2000-12.jpg

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/pepa131/Grundig/r2000-14.jpg

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/pepa131/Grundig/r2000-15.jpg

regards,
Robert

HarmanKardon
09-10-2010, 02:11 PM
Some Sixties gear!

Above a Saba "Freudenstadt Stereo E" from 1969, it was the last tube receiver of Saba, and it was no hybride like most of that stuff from the mid sixties on.

Below a Telefunken Concertino 2380 from 1962, the first tube receiver of Telefunken, before that they only offered tube radios.

Upon it a small fine Beomaster 901 from 1969. Only moderate performance, but neat.

The Telefunken currently doesent work but the Saba sounds absolutely terrific with sixties speakers (Westra, a german brand).

Quadrocker
09-12-2010, 06:08 AM
Never seen the Thorn Ferguson before or the Grundig R-2000. I got a chance to hear one of the 1980's Revox amps from the same era as B-780 Receiver and it sounded very nice....

I'm not sure how common the Revox amps and Receivers are in Europe but they very very rarely turn up for sale here in Australia, and are very expensive when they do.

HarmanKardon
09-12-2010, 08:30 AM
Revox is absolutely common in Germany. Check Ebay Germany inclusive "Completed listings".

Amps, receivers, Cd-players, anything you want. Not cheap (it is as everybody knows top vintage quailtiy) but definitely not rare.

Quadrocker
09-13-2010, 12:52 AM
For anyone interested...here's a Dutch site I found with lots of interesting vintage Euro stuff (...mostly Phillips), including a few entries with service manuals....:)

http://www.oudio.nl/

HarmanKardon
09-13-2010, 02:24 AM
The brand DUAL is known for turntables, even in USA, but they also built some fine receivers and amplifiers especially in the late seventies.

Here you see my DUAL CR 1780, 90 WPC (upon it a B&O tt), there was also an amplifier in the same design, DUAL CV 1700 with 110 WPC, the most powerful german amp in those days.

I sold mine two years ago, so I cant present a picture of it any more.

Michael Powers
09-13-2010, 03:33 AM
...... And the B&O gear needed service rather more often and most technicians hated repairing them......

This is the understatement of the year.

HarmanKardon
09-13-2010, 04:19 AM
I would never ask a technician to repair my Beomaster 8000. Technically, this monster receiver is a nightmare.

But my Beomaster 3000 is working perfectly without repair since 1969.

Generalization is nothing I could recommand!

hatrack71
09-13-2010, 10:01 AM
I have been looking at a lot of British hifi lately and like the vintage offerings from Quad, Rogers, Leak and Beard. The tubed Revox amplifiers also have me very interested due to the ultra cool look the gear has. I guess I just like the Euro look. That's what finally persuaded me to buy 3 Quad QC IIs, 3 Quad IIs, and a Quad 22 which I will restore over the winter. I am looking at purchasing a Rogers Cadet III- the one with separate pre and power amp in one case. Looks like a great tube bedroom amp.

Combwork
09-13-2010, 11:56 AM
Philips? Hello?

John

Philips 720 from 1972/3. FM/AM bands including shortwave. Class A/B which I am told means it is class A at low volumes then switches to class B as you turn the volume up. 30 watts "sine" 40 watts "peak" per channel into 4 ohms. Weighs around 11 Kilos.

http://www.magnatmuseum.nl/Vissenogen%20Serie/720%20new.htm

The sound is very good. When Japanese Hi-Fi equipment first started to sell in the U.K. some Hi-Fi buffs talked it down as being "too harsh" and "more attuned to Japanese than European ears". I've a universal voltage Pioneer SA-8800; overhauled by a friend of mine and switching between the two I think shows what they mean. The Pioneer plays hard edged music very well; channel separation is the best I've heard and when watching a DVD, it sometimes does that weird trick of making background sounds seem to come from beyond the speakers. Run the sound-track from Stephen King's "The Stand" through it and detail in the music stands out brilliantly, especially the steel guitar but this very brilliance can make some voices sound a touch sibilant.

Play the same piece through the Philips and the treble seems to have been pulled back just enough to lose the sibilance, the guitar notes stand out well, but not quite as stark. Plus the Philips does not have the same very low end response that the Pioneer has. Both have their good points; neither sounds bad in any way, but it's interesting to hear the different ways they each handle the same music.

ev13wt
09-13-2010, 01:38 PM
A lot of them at "loudness" built in, but there are some nice units!

I have a Braun Braun regie 510. Its doing office radio duty. Some people would kill for the design, but its not really me.

http://www.stereo.de/typo3temp/pics/b66560508c.jpg

Quadrocker
09-13-2010, 06:59 PM
A lot of them at "loudness" built in, but there are some nice units!

I have a Braun Braun regie 510. Its doing office radio duty. Some people would kill for the design, but its not really me.

http://www.stereo.de/typo3temp/pics/b66560508c.jpg

You don't often see the Braun stuff...

They have a unique, stark futuristic look that's acquired taste for many, and somewhat inspirational for others (..rumor has it that Apple Computer used the look of some of Braun's 60's & 70's components as inspiration for the simple, functional look of some of their product line)...thanks for posting a image of the regie 510..!!...:)

BP101
09-14-2010, 10:38 AM
Quadrocker, thanks for the link. I now have a schematic for my Phillips 591 amplifier (which is in daily use in my office). Very cool.

As for Braun stuff, my dad was involved in advertising for the company that distributed Braun in Canada way back when, and I still have a Braun turntable and Braun three-way speakers that are part of my main system. The German sound is different than the Japanese, and I think never got the respect it deserved because of it, but the build quality is impeccible.

gewoonmaf
09-14-2010, 05:04 PM
My uncle used to own a Braun system. Dunno if it's still alive, but it was top notch.

http://hifi4me.de/img/braun-braun%20p1%20plattenspieler-0_1204361570.jpg

Quadrocker
09-14-2010, 08:08 PM
I think Braun might have been the pioneer for that Modern, minimalistic look in hi-fi. Armstrong in the UK tried a version of it with thier first range of solid state stuff in 1967/68 but the components just looked a bit too futuristic for the British public to take to, and the company quickly restyled the next range...only a year or so later...very conservatively.

Below is an image of the Armstrong 426 Receiver (1967/68)...Note, there ain't too many of these floating around..!! and I believe these models are mostly identical inside, to the next (..conservative looking and ironically "award winning")..range that replaced them...

This (slightly tidied up) image originally from the Armstrong entry in wikipedia.