Them frequencies again!

[GeniX]

Just out of interest I downloaded a couple of good tone generators - I really have forgotten what the various frequencies sound like.

Thus with my grados I was able to hear! And low and behold I realised that 60Hz really aint all that low. I should remember it not being low as Ive mucked around with tones years ago.

Still Ive forgotten that above 16Khz is so stupidly high that probably very very few instruments would create sounds that high. And some audiophiles worry about their speakers not going much higher than 20...

Furthermore I played some sub-30Hz tones and despite having heard it said that one really struggles to hear notes that low, I found that it wasnt too hard by the time the frequency reached 30. In fact by closing my eyes and tapping the right arrow until I hear something, I usually stop around 23 or 24hz.

I reckon a speaker that can at least convey the low-end would need to stoop at least as low as 40 - 45hz. If it gets down to 35hz, I reckon its low enough for music... you'd only need go lower for HT.

I do know there are cd's out there with very low-end stuff like sub-20 bass notes, but those are quite few and far between.

[GeniX]

Actually I would be interested if anyone can suggest an easy (and free) way for me to analyze some of my cd's and visually see how much information is inside various frequency ranges.

How much of the music actually goes as low as 30 or 40hz?

[Wardsweb]

I've always found it funny when somesays "Oh my system is flat from 20 to 25K." I'm thinking so, you stopped hearing it somewhere around 16-17K.;)

[GeniX]

thanks very much for your thoughts, thoots!

For some, that 'bottom octave' and other low bass is what they really listen for. Its also often difficult to 'pick the bass'. A 50 - 100Hz kick in a kick drum may deliver a powerful punch and leave a person thinking 'Wow ! This speaker has mega bass!' when its not really true.

Anyyone know what the freq range for a double bass is?

[bully]

Double-string bass lower range is just into the 60 Hz area.
Rember that low C on a piano is 131 Hz.
Somewhere I have or had a chart of FR for human voice, and many instruments.
Below 100 Hz there were only a few instruments.
Below 60 Hz, very few.
Below 30 Hz, only a few very large pipe organs.
Those with a 16 Hz tube are even fewer and farther between.
IIR, isn't a 16 Hz tube 128 feet long (high)?
With overtones and harmonics, that bottom note is really not needed to make us "hear" (rather, feel) the sonics.

[steamshooter]

Is this what you're looking for?
http://www.azstarnet.com/~solo/InsRange.htm
Scroll to the bottom for the chart.
Brad

[GTF]

I tested my speakers Dynaudio 1.8MKII's. They are rated
down to 28hz. Well thats not low enough for me. You see I had owned a Fried model "T" transmission line sub. Irving rated them down to 10hz. I missed them, so I built myself another pair except that I built it as 2 seperate subs using Peerless CSX 850146 and using a BassZone test cd they move in and out starting at 1hz, but you can't hear them until they are being feed 10 hz.
No there not for the boom boom rap-disco sound but for "music" in the living room, ahhh I like that.
Don't think there's deep bass out there? Moby-Porcelin, Pink Floyd, ELP, so much good music to be enjoyed with a deep sub.
Gee, some people think the 1,8's have to much deep bass for most rooms, and I have more.

[Robh3606]

Its nice having good bass response below 40 Hz. With my subs I can get into the low 20's and there is no substitute for clean bass down that low. On the recordings that have content down there the amount of power in that last octave can really be something. On the high end I am rolling off above about 15-16Kz. I am 10db down at 20Khz. Sounds fine to me. I know I can't hear above 16K any more Oh Well!!! That could be why it sounds OK :eek:

[GeniX]

Thank you all very much for the input (and link, steamshooter).

Reading and thinking on all this has put a lot of things back into place. One thing I didnt realise is that the E string on your normal guitar plays at 83hz!! WOW that is MUCH lower than I would have guessed....

GTF: I dont reckon you can actually hear 10hz. More likely the woofers are moving and things are rattling in the room, eh?? :D

[GTF]

Well actually you can hear 10hz. The woofers start pumping from 1 hz up but don't make any noise, (unless you overdrive them to make mechanical noises) until 10 hz. Now 10 hz at that low a volume level 80+ dbs doesn't cause any room vibration problems but those higher frequencies, wow can they be destructive. If I push thing to far I have to go into the garage which is behind my speakers and remove objects from the wall so they don't fall. In the house the problem is worse exciting, pictures, walls, tables, etc. Of course this doesn't happen with music ( well not always. Sometimes you can feel the vibrations in the seat of your pants. )
Those subs aren't for people who want head banging volume levels though. They are for people who want very deep natural bass.

[GeniX]

Unfortunately I cannot experiment to hear for myself.. my Grados dont seem to make it down to 10hz :-/

For movies, however, it may be a bit silly. I dont think any of the surround formats available at the moment allow for frequencies that low.

[George R]

:rolleyes: Hey Genix:eek:

A couple things to remember when referencing, say low "E" on the guitar as 83Hz, or low "E" on a bass guitar at 41Hz. These are the fundamental frequencies for that string and instrument. The actual sound that you hear is made up of the fundamental and the harmonics above and below that fundamental.

It's mainly those harmonics which enable us to differentiate instruments at the same fundamental frequency. i.e. 440Hz "A" on a guitar, a piano or a saxophone.

Here's an easy to read chart showing different insyruments (and voice ranges) with their fundamental frequencies.

http://home.socal.rr.com/rnbisme/fchart.jpg

The amount of actual energy contained in most recordings above 12-15Khz and below 60-100Hz generally minimal. The amount of energy needed to produce very low frequencies is tremendous compared to mid and high frequencies and frequencies below 20Hz are felt more than heard

A good source of information on this subject is an audiologist They can be found in the phone book or at a local university, if you're near one.

:D Happy Listening:cool:

[car67]

George,

Thanks for the chart - that's something very handy to have around. Agree that overtones/harmonics can sometimes get forgotten. I believe that there are many who think that the higher order harmonics are important in the reproduction process even though they may be of very low level and fall outside the hearing frequencies.

Jack

[George R]

:rolleyes: Hey Jack:eek:

I forgot to mention that if anyone wants a copy of that chart, send me an "e" and I'll shoot one off.:nerd:

It truly amazes me that people will swear they hear something when it's way out of human audio perception range. I've read of people who adamantly state that they can hear harmonics in excess of 100Khz!:uzi: Funny thing is, most of us "over 40" crowd are lucky to hear 15Khz. Especially musicians (like myself) and those who aren't aware that there are numbers below "10" on the volume control.

Well I guess if weere allthe same, these forums would be, well, gone.

:D Happy Listening:cool:

[car67]

Hey George,

What I did was the old right click and "save as" on the jpeg you attached.:p:

Do you mean you have something better or more comprehensive than that? I'd be interested. :)

Jack

[George R]

:rolleyes: Hey Jack:o

I believe that I have a chart which gives the frequency (fundamental) of each note on the piano. If you're interested, I'll be happy to shoot you a copy.

BTW, between the "baby boomers" reaching their 40' and 50s, and the "boombox cars" with their 120Db+ sound systems, the hearing aid industry is in high gear. I used to work for a worldwide hearing aid company and friends of mine who still work there, said they've had to open a second shift to keep up with orders.:dunno:

:D Happy Listening:cool:

[car67]

That would be cool George. Thanks! I'll send you a PM this very next minute. I've got a little portakeyboard so I can play around a bit. The GF will look at me strange for sitting around hitting individual keys while staring at a piece of paper!:p:

From the land of the cochlea implant and aging folk...:)

Jack

[Walt]

Speak for yourself ...

Last I knew my hearing was a-OK ... what's that, what's that you're saying?

*shrugs shoulders*

:D