View Full Version : Seiko Loudspeakers? (One I haven't seen before...)


rfolden
09-22-2010, 08:55 PM
I'm over at the Church doing my mixing board duties, and I've been asked to repair a set of speakers I've never encountered, and at first glance Google hasn't encountered either.

I thought I'd quickly post this out here before I can get home, do further research and post pictures.

Speaker Name:

Seiko Power Magnum Model 100 4-Way Speaker

Back label says "components by Pioneer".

Not high-end construction, but not super-cheap, either. About the size of an HPM-100, but doesn't look exactly like that. Woofers need a re-foam. Everything else looks fine.

Any ideas?

Pics and such to come later tonight.

What worries me is the "inventory tags/sku's" affixed to these puppies is a PUNCH CARD.

Oh, boy! Gotta get back to my sound duties. Thanks for your time...

--Rob

rfolden
09-22-2010, 10:59 PM
... Here are the pics.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJrAkC8P_nI/AAAAAAAAHVE/hkW9-zvs2AM/s800/seiko001.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJrAkyG3f7I/AAAAAAAAHVI/66WUiGRmjwg/s800/seiko002.jpg
OOH! Power Magnums! My ears are very afraid!

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJrAlsIVYoI/AAAAAAAAHVM/LQaA9bIMqRY/s800/seiko003.jpg
A couple of things come to mind here:
1. No one in their right mind would pay $369 (each!) for these, and
2. Whoever sold these must have been someone in the retail business that touted the first ever "computerized inventory". Just insert the punch card at the register and PRESTO! You're ripped off. I'm thinking someone like the now defunct Best Products Corp. Any other ideas?

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJrAmLF1ViI/AAAAAAAAHVQ/idIRQtEh2T4/s800/seiko004.jpg
That's a 17" 4:3 monitor for size comparison.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJrAmxmJHWI/AAAAAAAAHVg/RpWV1pCYvzk/s800/seiko005.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJrAs5v1s0I/AAAAAAAAHVY/xuS9AI7mf1k/s800/seiko006.jpg
Pop! Pop! Goes The Woofer! The Woofer!
Pop! Pop! Goes The Woofer! The Woofer!
Pop! Pop! Goes The Woofer! The Woofer!
Pop! Goes The Woofer and The Woofer Goes POP!

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJrAtIJ_hnI/AAAAAAAAHVc/F-8O_25qTWY/s800/seiko007.jpg
Porthole cover re-installed after removing broken plastic grill.

I appreciate any hints from whence these came. Thank you for your time!

--Rob

Vintage_Hi-F
09-22-2010, 11:04 PM
I have no idea from whence these came but I think they probably belonged to an equally cheap and cheesy all in one system.

rfolden
09-22-2010, 11:09 PM
I have no idea from whence these came but I think they probably belonged to an equally cheap and cheesy all in one system.

Yes, that makes sense, too... perhaps from someplace like Schewel's Furniture here locally that put outrageous prices on their electronics to make you think you were getting a steal when they marked the whole system 50% off. That kind of looks like a furniture store speaker...

Vintage_Hi-F
09-22-2010, 11:11 PM
Yes, that makes sense, too... perhaps from someplace like Schewel's Furniture here locally that put outrageous prices on their electronics to make you think you were getting a steal when they marked the whole system 50% off. That kind of looks like a furniture store speaker...

I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they are. As long as they didn't cost you the $369 on the tag I think you'll ok and on the plus side that punch card price tag is probably more valuable than the speakers. :D

rfolden
09-22-2010, 11:25 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they are. As long as they didn't cost you the $369 on the tag I think you'll ok and on the plus side that punch card price tag is probably more valuable than the speakers. :D

They cost me nothing. They were in a room I was assigned to clean out at the Church. I brought them out because I remember a Christmas concert 3 years ago in which someone tried to use them as monitors for the choir, hooked to one of our monster crest audio amps. One kick of the bass drum and powee! The woofers dang near shot out of the cabinets. Anyways, I was asked to try and fix them rather than dumpsterize them so that I will do. Since they are essentially garbage, and their use will be limited to hearing oneself singing (badly), I can always replace the LF drivers with something generic if the re-foam goes awry!

westend
09-22-2010, 11:31 PM
Well the two tweeter alignment qualifies them into the Kabuki designation so you should feel right at home with them. As you noted, "not high end but not cheap". I'm thinking aimed at the higher end of the retail market in the early 80's.

The punch cards were used for inventory control long after their usefulness in other realms were done.

jdrum1
09-23-2010, 07:41 AM
First generation White Van?

Michael D
09-23-2010, 08:12 AM
They're white van speakers from about 20 years ago. They were seen around D.C. quite a lot.

rfolden
09-23-2010, 11:40 AM
First generation White Van?

Could certainly be that! I'm taking them apart after work tonight and I'll let you know about there WhiteVan-ishness. I'll post pics of the innards.

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

--Rob

2chanman
09-23-2010, 12:26 PM
Looking through the port, it is easy to see that there is no sound absorbing material; yet another sign that they are garbage. I doubt that they are worth the effort, much less the expense, to refoam.

austi15
09-23-2010, 02:25 PM
PE has almost matching woofers for 10 bucks. Run them through WinISD to make sure they are close enough, then stick a pvc pipe port in there and some polyfill. Total investment around $30. Maybe add a crossbrace, cheapo l-pad with PE buyout tweeter, and recap them with generic but proper caps. Around 50 bucks and they won't be too bad.

M Jarve
09-23-2010, 04:01 PM
I have no idea from whence these came but I think they probably belonged to an equally cheap and cheesy all in one system.

Which is sad, given that Seiko-Epson also put out one of the penultimate idler drive turntables, the ∑2000. But, I don't think those were actually Seiko as in Seiko Japan or Seiko-Epson.

Duckzilla
09-23-2010, 05:41 PM
First gen white van? More like white horse and cart! Seiko huh, thats a name you should "watch" out for......

Nat
09-23-2010, 08:53 PM
Boy -- what a storm of ridicule! Japanese companies often are essentially holding companies, with fingers in lots of pies, and every now and then they branch out into unexpected areas, usually not so successfully, but sometimes very well. Watches, cameras, and audio equipment often seemed to overlap in their schemes, so we have Miranda tape recorders, Seiko shutters for cameras, Toshiba making Topcon cameras, Miida making all sorts of stuff, Konica and Minolta made copiers, and I could go on, though note that Sony and Panasonic etc make digital cameras now and nobody dumps on them for doing so.
So refoam the things, and listen to them -- they are probably no worse than most speakers you find in the closet, and a lot better than much of the stuff sold nowadays. If you don't care for them, sell them at the next church fair. Some AKer will snap them up.

Vintage_Hi-F
09-23-2010, 09:01 PM
Boy -- what a storm of ridicule! Japanese companies often are essentially holding companies, with fingers in lots of pies, and every now and then they branch out into unexpected areas, usually not so successfully, but sometimes very well. Watches, cameras, and audio equipment often seemed to overlap in their schemes, so we have Miranda tape recorders, Seiko shutters for cameras, Toshiba making Topcon cameras, Miida making all sorts of stuff, Konica and Minolta made copiers, and I could go on, though note that Sony and Panasonic etc make digital cameras now and nobody dumps on them for doing so.
So refoam the things, and listen to them -- they are probably no worse than most speakers you find in the closet, and a lot better than much of the stuff sold nowadays. If you don't care for them, sell them at the next church fair. Some AKer will snap them up.

For some reason I get the idea that you haven't heard a "real" kabuki speaker, there are plenty that get the label like the early Sansui SP series and pioneers old CS line (to name a few) but they do one thing a kabuki speaker can't do. Make music enjoyable and while it is true that they may not be that bad I can't say they look like they are going to be all that nice either. They just give off that air of cheap, even the op called them overpriced junk.

Nat
09-23-2010, 09:28 PM
I grew up in Japan, if that suggests anything about my experience of Kabuki, both the real thing and the speakers. (Actually it suggests more than it should since my family came back to the US when I was fourteen.) But I've heard plenty of Kabuki speakers, and owned a few pairs -- Pioneer, Coral, Sonics and Sansui spring to mind.
Sure, they aren't Vandersteens or Wilsons or whatever you want to compare them to. But I have found that a large number of speakers I 'knew' couldn't be any good were actually not bad, or in some cases were excellent. Will these be great? Probably not. But actually, a ported 12 inch woofer, a midrange and two cone tweeters probably won't be that bad. And its free!
When you find those Wilsons in the church closet, then I'll take the snarky comments seriously.

glen65
09-23-2010, 09:35 PM
I'm over at the Church doing my mixing board duties, and I've been asked to repair a set of speakers I've never encountered, and at first glance Google hasn't encountered either.

I thought I'd quickly post this out here before I can get home, do further research and post pictures.

Speaker Name:

Seiko Power Magnum Model 100 4-Way Speaker

Back label says "components by Pioneer".



I remember the 70s and 80s being cluttered with all sorts of odd
equipment brands. If you looked hard enough you would probably
find audio equipment named after household appliances and sex toys.
If you decide to toss the speakers hang on to the computer punch card.
That's a piece of history by itself.

rfolden
09-23-2010, 10:07 PM
Since these are (or maybe not...?) going to be used as monitors, I decided to go the free n easy route and just place a set of woofers in there I had laying around until I can find a more exact replacement. Fortunately, the basket diameter, etc. was the same so no cutting required and I can pull them back out when I'm "really" done. Only thing left to do is make a more "tuned" port, I filled some of the cabinet with batting in an attempt to minimize reflections, and "boominess". Here's some pics:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJwFNxJyYDI/AAAAAAAAHV4/boquVz2liHQ/s800/seiko0010.jpg
The "old" woofer... Not quite the 8 gazillion pound magnet assembly of which they spoke. The Crest Vs450 sitting under the woofer is this week-end's project.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJwFOEQDt0I/AAAAAAAAHV8/lmJSZYUHyTY/s800/seiko0011.jpg
The not-so-sophisticated crossover network / L-pad.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJwFORViXLI/AAAAAAAAHWA/bRiPC8N8MLM/s800/seiko0012.jpg
The interim woofers... Magnet assembly a little more robusto.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJwFO0XZP-I/AAAAAAAAHWE/pzuBvJsX5yc/s800/seiko0013.jpg
The midrange, sealed. Sorry for the washout.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJwFPd9yviI/AAAAAAAAHWI/rCGmI_DmV5c/s800/seiko0014.jpg
The tweeters, 2 ea. cabinet. Again, sorry for the washout.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJwIEntVDyI/AAAAAAAAHWg/D46nu-OnAvw/s800/seiko0015.jpg
The almost finished product.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJwIExWGDfI/AAAAAAAAHWY/VQlpoZKK5so/s800/seiko0016.jpg
Grill On.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJwIFCZO6hI/AAAAAAAAHWc/1dpEIfNDDFw/s800/seiko0017.jpg
Grill Off.

Now just to get at tuning that port!

voltcontrol
09-24-2010, 05:53 AM
Hmm, I thought they still carried the 12" version with that basket.. not anymore...
only the 10" version is left..http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-923

Don't know if the interim solution will stay, otherwide these might be a step in the right direction; http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-904

markshan
09-24-2010, 08:24 AM
S
The "old" woofer... Not quite the 8 gazillion pound magnet assembly of which they spoke.

Perhaps the originals had already been swapped out once.

Vintage_Hi-F
09-24-2010, 10:50 AM
Perhaps the originals had already been swapped out once.

You would be amazed how many cheaper speakers have giant woofers with a microscopic magnet.

rfolden
09-24-2010, 11:13 AM
Don't know if the interim solution will stay, otherwide these might be a step in the right direction; http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=299-904

Thanks for the part # reference... and the price is certainly right. I'll order up a couple of those tonight and report out when they come in and I have them installed. I'm heading to Lowe's for some PVC for the port right now, and later this evening will get started on that Crest amplifier.

Thanks, everyone!

barredowl
09-24-2010, 05:17 PM
Whatever floats your boat, but keep an eye out for cheap DCM, JBL, KEF, Boston, Advent, older Polk, Altec, Klipsch, AR, KLH, Linn or ADS speakers that are more worthy your time to restore. If you haunt the thrift stores you might be surprised what turns up.

rfolden
09-24-2010, 05:34 PM
Whatever floats your boat, but keep an eye out for cheap DCM, JBL, KEF, Boston, Advent, older Polk, Altec, Klipsch, AR, KLH, Linn or ADS speakers that are more worthy your time to restore. If you haunt the thrift stores you might be surprised what turns up.

Here's (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=322551) one of my recent Thrift Store finds for $15 that sounds quite good...

( http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=322551 )

Time (to me, anyways) spent repairing/tweaking loudspeakers (whether or not they are someone's idea of "High Fidelity") is always more therapeutic than, say, getting a tooth pulled.

barredowl
09-24-2010, 06:05 PM
Those Technics don't look too bad, the Seikos look like they came from a rack system though. Again if you find it soothing , great! Just know with a little patience better speakers are out there for the same price. Keep an eye on Craigslist, freecycle, etc.

House de Kris
09-24-2010, 06:21 PM
Despite the grandiose claims of the sticker on the back, and the punch card, these are 3-way speakers, not 4-way.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJrAkyG3f7I/AAAAAAAAHVI/66WUiGRmjwg/s800/seiko002.jpg

rfolden
09-25-2010, 01:24 AM
I especially like the part of the woofer description for the woofer's voice coil in which "HIGH TEMPERATURE" is emphasized. I think they meant that the woofer's voice coil will, indeed, reach a high temperature at which point it will fail catastrophically. :)

rfolden
09-25-2010, 02:04 AM
... made from blackwater PVC, in honor of the $!!ttee loudspeakers in which they are being installed. Note even a sanitary sewer port can be tuned...

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJ2N7HW4arI/AAAAAAAAHW8/tKfUD0j4BEI/s800/raw%20port.jpg
The raw port. "Dampening" material already added to 3 walls of cabinets akin to original cheap "Pioneer" design.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJ2N65vLC7I/AAAAAAAAHW0/ztb2YXZ26iA/s800/port%20back%20part%20and%20plate.jpg
"back" part of port installed, port trim plate installed and silicone sealed for your protection.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJ2N7A4RSqI/AAAAAAAAHW4/KnmyWMksf6Q/s800/port%20front%20tuner%20blackwater.jpg
Here's the Wile E. Coyote Part: You can screw this into the port, which lengthens the tube anywhere from 1-2". Also, If you want to plug the port, one could screw in a cap plug, or screw in the Acme Engineering part completely and stuff a circular sponge in there much like the B&W 580s et al.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJ2N6p-DEHI/AAAAAAAAHWw/j3m4gBgt2-Y/s800/port%20assembled.jpg
The Poop Port™ Installed.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_cQhG_weVjVc/TJ2N6uPXS0I/AAAAAAAAHXE/rOrhMMEk7jo/s800/port%20assembled%20lg%20view.jpg
Frontal nudity showing the Poop Port™

No! No! No! Do not mess with me! I got a Frequency Equalizer on these speakers!

--Rob

gewoonmaf
09-25-2010, 05:58 AM
Fun project. You should rename the topic to 'polishing a turd'. :)