View Full Version : If I hadn't seen it in person, I wouldn't have believed it...


GordonW
04-01-2005, 12:46 PM
I, basically, heard something I would have thought was impossible.

I was invited, this morning, to hear a modified speaker system, using a new crossover topology... the Looflirpa Shunt Filter.

When I got to the place, they had two sets of speakers set up... a pair of JBL 4355 studio monitors, and... what I TOTALLY didn't expect- a pair of Kenwood KL1000Z speakers. As in, about the MOST KABUKI speaker of ALL time.

I was wondering what the heck was going to happen... and the designers rep said, that he had a crossover topology, that could make ANY of the old Japanese speakers sound JUST LIKE the JBL studio monitors. Before I could call "BS", they turned on the KL10000Zs... and I stopped in mid-sentence. WHOA. Bass definition, dynamic punch, tightness and focus throughout the frequency range. WTH was going on here?

They then switched from the KL10000Zs to the 4355s... and unbelievably, THERE WAS NO NOTICABLE DIFFERENCE IN THE SOUND. In fact, just to PROVE the point, they hooked up ONE modified KL10000Z and one 4355, left and right, and even with recordings I know VERY well, there wasn't EVEn ANY IMAGE SHIFT! They had managed to absolutely MATCH the timber of the KL10000Z to a $10000 JBL studio monitor!

I got the guy (who plans to release his crossover topology as "shareware"... which again floored me) to give me a file with the schematic... here's the diagram. He said, feel free to try this on ANY of the big Japanese speakers... now, they have to be AT LEAST 5 WAY cabinets... ie, FIVE OR MORE DRIVERS. That's the only catch- unfortunately, you can't modify stuff like AR3s or EPIs to do this...

I'm going to try a version of this crossover on my Big Reds... FIVE DRIVERS, baby!!!

Dave918
04-01-2005, 12:53 PM
Years from now folks are gonna see todays posts and wonder - what the hell were they smokin' :rofl:

/d

agger
04-01-2005, 12:59 PM
I it also possible to convert small german Visaton speakers to real good JBLŽs?
That would be fun for my kitchen system :zoom:

GordonW
04-01-2005, 01:13 PM
Gotta have at least 5 drivers. Sorry... :(

Regards,
Gordon.

hotgas
04-01-2005, 01:41 PM
I believe this is an April fool because there is no way on earth a cross-over can overcome fundamental physics. I'll change my career and be a saleman for these X-overs's if what Gordon said was true :)

mech986
04-01-2005, 03:11 PM
Actually, the crossover is novel and straight forward. As long as you have suitable range on each of the 5 drivers, it is a trivial matter to reequalize them to almost any similarly designed speaker. As you can see by following the schematic, the real key is the midbass, midrange, and upper frequency circuits. By messing with the phase, time delays (acoustic centering), and the relative levels, the designer has come up with an ingenous method of revoicing speakers.

Now you can take the Kabukiest, hide it behind a visually opaque drape, and claim you have any big JBL multiway monitor you like. That would save a ton of money!! Now I would propose a more radical experiment.

Gordon, do you think these could be adapted to run two pairs of BOSE 901's? You wouldn't need the equalizer since this crossover would handle that. I would propose, per side, that of the 18 drivers you could do it this way:

UHF section - 2 forward direct drivers (1 each)
HF section - 2 outer reflecting drivers (1 each)
Mid section - 4 inner reflecting drivers (2 each)
Mid Bass - 4 inner and outer drivers (2 of each)
Bass drivers - remaining 6 (3 each)

It works out quite well and I suspect the result will be spectacular and in Keeping with the Bose philosophy - you can get HUGE sound out of such a little box.

With some additional work on an active crossover model, I suspect you could change phase, polarity, and time domain delay that you could probably bend space and time, at least on a local level, if you have enough drivers.

10 pairs of 901's thus wired in a toroidal shaped listening area with the listener at the focal center would probably make practical time travel possible. At the very least, the sound field would be incredible!!!

Thanks.

Bart

kcollins4
04-01-2005, 03:35 PM
Damn....one pair short :no:

hotgas
04-01-2005, 06:06 PM
mech986,

I think you are ignoring the drivers charateristics. There are many variables in the equations, fixing the inputs (x-overs only) to get same outputs must involve more than just x-overs.

This should sound more sense. There are 2 pairs of speakers with same boxes and drivers, but different x-overs. It is very difficult to notice the differences between the two pairs if the cut-off frequencies is within +/- 20%. :scratch2: ha ha

PMik
04-01-2005, 06:36 PM
Such filter is plain waste of money, all these ferrit cores makes me laugh ...they induce distortion :lmao:
if you use huge "air" coils to make this filter, it will be very expencive ;)
active filtering is the way to go, the cons for active filtering is, you are able to control the slopes as you want them, it delievers far more transparant, more dynamic, less distorted sound, and more spl ....a result which is clearly above what we know as Hi-Fi :smoke:

PMik
04-01-2005, 08:05 PM
Nice April the first joke..jumped right into the "mud" ... lol :thmbsp:

Fast_Eddie
04-01-2005, 08:12 PM
Nice April the first joke..jumped right into the "mud" ... lol :thmbsp:

Better not be a joke. I just ordered all the parts. Cost a ton! There is a pair of pair of Kenwood KL1000Z speakers on e bay right now. I suppose we'll all get in a bidding war now.

Take care,

Ed

GordonW
04-01-2005, 08:24 PM
Anybody tried to put this schematic into a circuit-analysis program (Pspice or the like)? It should have some interesting characteristics...

One note- this diagram follows the standard for schematics- ONLY those intersections where there is a DOT at the crossing, are actual CONNECTIONS. Any intersections that do NOT have a dot, are NOT connected... think of them as being "insulated" from each other, as they pass over each other.

Regards,
Gordon.

PMik
04-01-2005, 09:20 PM
check out these studiomonitors

4x 30" Fostex (4x SLT amp)
4x 15" JBL (4x SLT amp)
2x 8" JBL (2x SLT Amp)
2x 2" stripped JBL compressor drivers (2x Esoteric Audio Reseach 529)
2x Fostex T945 (2x Esoteric Audio Reseach 519)

cudaken
04-01-2005, 09:52 PM
Just pull your cross over's soak them beer, hook a mig welder to them and weld some panels on a car, but them in a bag swing them over your head and scream like a chicken and you will be set. This will also work to break in cables as well :yes:

I hate April1, feel like a fish swiming around in the middle of a Bass Pro Torment.

I will be back in May when you get all this York, Bose and close and play stuff out of your system!

Boy, tham worm over there look's pretty taste :thmbsp:

Monted on the wall over the fire places Cuda Ken

tientsdo
11-12-2009, 11:58 AM
Hi Gordon! just happen to see this thread,how is your personal experience with this Looflirpa Shunt Filter?I did not see any schematic post here,can u send me one I'd greatly appreciated,I want to experience with my kenwood kl 10000z.
cheer.


I, basically, heard something I would have thought was impossible.

I was invited, this morning, to hear a modified speaker system, using a new crossover topology... the Looflirpa Shunt Filter.

When I got to the place, they had two sets of speakers set up... a pair of JBL 4355 studio monitors, and... what I TOTALLY didn't expect- a pair of Kenwood KL1000Z speakers. As in, about the MOST KABUKI speaker of ALL time.

I was wondering what the heck was going to happen... and the designers rep said, that he had a crossover topology, that could make ANY of the old Japanese speakers sound JUST LIKE the JBL studio monitors. Before I could call "BS", they turned on the KL10000Zs... and I stopped in mid-sentence. WHOA. Bass definition, dynamic punch, tightness and focus throughout the frequency range. WTH was going on here?

They then switched from the KL10000Zs to the 4355s... and unbelievably, THERE WAS NO NOTICABLE DIFFERENCE IN THE SOUND. In fact, just to PROVE the point, they hooked up ONE modified KL10000Z and one 4355, left and right, and even with recordings I know VERY well, there wasn't EVEn ANY IMAGE SHIFT! They had managed to absolutely MATCH the timber of the KL10000Z to a $10000 JBL studio monitor!

I got the guy (who plans to release his crossover topology as "shareware"... which again floored me) to give me a file with the schematic... here's the diagram. He said, feel free to try this on ANY of the big Japanese speakers... now, they have to be AT LEAST 5 WAY cabinets... ie, FIVE OR MORE DRIVERS. That's the only catch- unfortunately, you can't modify stuff like AR3s or EPIs to do this...

I'm going to try a version of this crossover on my Big Reds... FIVE DRIVERS, baby!!!

similost
11-12-2009, 12:18 PM
Hi Gordon! just happen to see this thread,how is your personal experience with this Looflirpa Shunt Filter?I did not see any schematic post here,can u send me one I'd greatly appreciated,I want to experience with my kenwood kl 10000z.
cheer.

I guess you didn't read all the way through this... it was actually an April Fools joke 4 years ago... Looflirpa in the mirror is aprilfool....

Goodwill_HiFi
11-12-2009, 12:24 PM
Hi Gordon! just happen to see this thread,how is your personal experience with this Looflirpa Shunt Filter?I did not see any schematic post here,can u send me one I'd greatly appreciated,I want to experience with my kenwood kl 10000z.
cheer.

Look at the date....... if it doesn't mean anything to you Google April 1st.

Arkay
11-12-2009, 12:42 PM
Google looflirpa, if Similost's post hasn't fully enlightened you, yet.

Sure would be fun if it were true, though. Watch all the serious audiophiles desperately scrounging for the very selfsame Kabuki cabs they wouldn't have been caught dead even looking at before then...

The inventor of such a thing would make a pretty penny, if they could protect it legally and make it difficult enough to prevent reverse-engineering. Although if I invented it, I'd probably start making and selling speakers!

71Challenger
11-12-2009, 01:27 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed this thread.

Think I'll go work on my flux capacitor.

theebadone
11-12-2009, 02:07 PM
Dang gordon, you just drove up the price of the kabukis lol

soundmotor
11-12-2009, 02:30 PM
Heh heh, now where's my Lirpa Labs sonic confabulator?

tboat4
11-12-2009, 02:42 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed this thread.

Think I'll go work on my flux capacitor.

Most people forget to adjust the bias on the franistan, which makes the flux capacitor ineffective, to say the least. I'm certain someone here will help you if you need assistance.

wizargoz
11-12-2009, 03:33 PM
Sorry, that's natsinarf (pronounced "nat-sin-arf"), not franistan. It used to be franistan until the earth changed polarity when Gozer the Traveler came as a large and moving Torg during the rectification of the Vuldrini. Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!
(Sorry, I've gone completely off-thread here...)

DaWoofer
11-12-2009, 03:44 PM
I was fooled by this post by not reading the date. I was thinking "oh shit, it's about to hit the fan now."

JesusChrysler
11-12-2009, 04:15 PM
...And here I am with my Coral BX-1500's open and crossovers exposed....


DAMMIT!!!!!!!!


:D :D :D :D :D


Matt

tboat4
11-12-2009, 04:36 PM
Sorry, that's (pronounced "nat-sin-arf"), not franistan. It used to be franistan until the earth changed polarity when Gozer the Traveler came as a large and moving Torg during the rectification of the Vuldrini. Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!
(Sorry, I've gone completely off-thread here...)

Thank you very much. Some people have been throwing around the term natsinarf, and I had no idea what they were talking about. I felt so foolish. Thank you!!

cwall99
11-12-2009, 04:40 PM
I love the brand name: Looflirpa

cwall99
11-12-2009, 04:41 PM
Sorry, that's natsinarf (pronounced "nat-sin-arf"), not franistan. It used to be franistan until the earth changed polarity when Gozer the Traveler came as a large and moving Torg during the rectification of the Vuldrini. Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!
(Sorry, I've gone completely off-thread here...)

Yeah, but you did it so well. Are you the gatekeeper?

x_25
11-12-2009, 06:15 PM
Yeah, but you did it so well. Are you the gatekeeper?

I seek the keymaster.

jhoyt
11-12-2009, 08:01 PM
April fools or not, Bob Carver could design it. :D

Marantz7t15
11-12-2009, 08:16 PM
April fools or not, Bob Carver could design it. :D

Probably already has.....

donberry
11-12-2009, 11:04 PM
now that's funny

Sam Cogley
11-13-2009, 12:11 AM
Probably already has.....

But it has a tendency to catch on fire...