There has been a B17 buzzing my house all day. I live in the flight path of Long Beach airport. It sucks most of the time but once in a while cool stuff flies over. Today it’s a WWII vintage B17. It has been taking off and landing all day. It flies very low, barely over the rooftops. It has a very distinctive sound. The engines don’t sound like they are much above idle speed. It has been flying off the long runway which puts its path just north of my house. About two hours ago it made a big turn and flew directly over head. Very cool to watch. If it’s still around tomorrow I’ll try to get pictures.

- Pete

If it's the same one, I walked thru that plane about 10 yrs ago at an airshow in Hickory, NC. They charged 5 bucks, which went for gas & maint-those 4 big motors take a LOT of avgas. I read somewhere we couldn't duplicate what we did in WW2-turn the sky over Europe black w/airplanes, because today we couldn't afford the gas. If you get a chance, go & see it. I don't think you'll be sorry you did.-Sandy G.

The price of gas may explain why they are taking off low and slow.

- Pete

nothing like radial piston engine sounds.....

A good quantity of B17 engines were made under license from Pratt & Whitney by Studebaker......part of that particular factory complex is currently used by Hummer (just outside South Bend).

There are a series of small strange sheds in a matrix that were used as test modules for these engines as they came off the assembly line. Ask some veterans who maintained these Stude built engines and you'll find a lot of them sing high praise for these particular versions.

Anywho, below is a pic of a B17 that I snapped last weekend at the Pacific Coast Dream Machine show in Half Moon Bay, I wonder if it's the same bird.

Anthony

I have a B-17 and a DC-3 that are homebased here in Douglas...Cool!

There are two DC-3s operated by a little air cargo company that fly a milk run between the Long Beach airport and Catalina island every day. They fly over my house all the time. I always stop to watch when I hear them comming. Those radial engines have a very cool sound and it is just unbelievable that those 60 year old airplanes are still at work every day.

- Pete

There are two DC-3s operated by a little air cargo company that fly a milk run between the Long Beach airport and Catalina island every day. They fly over my house all the time. I always stop to watch when I hear them comming. Those radial engines have a very cool sound and it is just unbelievable that those 60 year old airplanes are still at work every day.

- Pete


Redmond Oregon has a couple B-17s that they use for fighting forrest fires. . . They drop that powder stuff on the fires. . . At least they used these planes up to a couple years ago, I would assume they still do. I was there yesterday but I did not notice them, wasnt looking either. . .

They fly a lot, not unusual to see them regularly. . . :ntwrthy:

My Dad was retired AF. . . flew 17s, 24s and 36s as a bombardier, moved into 52s untill he retired in 58 as a tail gunner. . . he had over 10,000 hours of "Combat" flying time during WWII and Korea. . .

There was a DC-3 that flew canceled checks from Chattanooga to Nashville lotsa nights when I was at McCallie back in the '70s. About 11.30-BLATBLATBLATBLATBLAT-right over our heads. A helluva final note for the onetime Queen of the Skies...-Sandy G.

It is somewhat amazing the size difference between old and new. If I remember correctly an F15 fighter is larger than a B17 heavy bomber of WWII.
It's escort, a P51 Mustang, has been flying around here the last couple of days. Not a radial engine, but still exciting to see/hear.
Springfield Air Rendezvous is going on right now. They have a Heritage In Flight performance where they have a P51,an F4 Phantom and an F15 Eagle all flying together. Very cool :thmbsp:.
Also an F4U Corsair, but not flying with them. And the headliners, the Navy Blue Angels.
Tried to attach a picture of them but picture too large :scratch2:
Old or new warbirds are very cool.

i am not going to be satisfied until someone does a barrell roll in a 747...

i am not going to be satisfied until someone does a barrell roll in a 747...
Don't you think that would spill all the drinks in the first class/lounge section :D

lol...but it would be fun for me and the drivers..!:-)

Yesterday at the air show, the Blue Angels did a demo of their support aircraft Fat Albert, which is a C130 with JATO bottles on it. When it banked to come around in what they called a " minimum radius turn" it was almost 90 degrees to the ground. Really get an idea about wingspan looking at that. Can't imagine what a 747 would look like in a barrel roll :jawdrop:
I wouldn't mind being on board for that also. :thmbsp:

Nothing like the sound of a multi-engine recip. If that B-17 has been taking off and landing all day, they're probably hauling passengers at over $275 a pop.

There's a good book out there about 130's. I think it's called "Herky Bird" or something like that. It seems one test involved one taking off from a carrier. They kept on doing it until the aircraft was 10,000lbs. over its max design gross weight. I don't know if the carrier was steaming max speed into a hellacious headwind or what, but a 130 leaving a carrier is goddamn impressive in my book. I don't recall the use of JATO bottles for that test either.

Can't imagine what a 747 would look like in a barrel roll

I recall seeing a video of a test pilot who did that some years ago. IIRC he was sacked for the stunt.

The B17 is back. I flew by a couple of minutes ago. I'm going to set up a camera and see if I can get a picture.

- Pete

Boeing builds the C17 transport here at the Long Beach airport. They fly over on their maiden flights. That makes me a little nervous but they all seem to make it. It’s an impressive airplane too.

- Pete

Unless they have repainted it army green, it's not that one. Unfortunately It doesn't seem to be flying today. It went by once this morning and I haven't seen it since. I've got a camera on tripod that has been bleaching in the sun all day.

- Pete

Speaking of B17s being used to fight fires.....the Confederate Air Force's 'Sentimental Journey' was built too late to see any action and instead spent it's professional life as a firefighter. Someone mentioned P51's....they weren't radial engines, the are V12's built on an origial Rolls Royce Merlin design but perfected and mass produced by Packard......VERY long story behind this engine and Packard's involvement.

Never saw a 747 perform any snazzy maneuvers other than to watch them do touch and goes at Bangor back in the early 70's. This is (or was) the longest runway on the east coast and was originally a military base, although at the time it was partially transformed to commercial.....and was used by the airlines to train their pilots. You ain't seen nuthin till you see a 747 float gracefully down, touch gear, and then roll on full throttle! Like watching the circus fat lady dancing like a ballerina.

Couple hours worth of touch and goes on a nice, hot, August late afternoon will get you as green around the gills as can be.

Do me a favor and shoot one of those C-17's out of the sky. Those things are dangerous in untrained hands and have been causing a LOT of dented metal during aerial refueling. They ripped a boom off a -135 not long ago (ALMOST got mine a month ago). In a really bad one, the boom on a KC-10 struck the UNDERSIDE of a C-17 during air refueling. Just picture that. Ugly picture no?

I fucking hate C-17's.

I'm told that a 747 is quite capable of doing a barrel roll but its highly unlikely that anyone will ever see it happen. Theres quite a legendary story of the Boeing test pilot of the 707 prototype doing a barrel roll over Lake Washington in front of all kinds of military and airline brass on the occasion of the public introduction of the plane. The pilot did not get fired.

Was this the plane you saw??

Well, wasnt it Tex that did that stunt with the 707...i think I read so in his book,,,they just told him not to do it again...:-)

George, I know you're gonna love this...

Big article in today's Chicago Tribune about Airbus spending $90 million to develop a refueling boom. They already have contracts with several foreign countries, and they fully intend to bid against Boeing for the next USAF contract for tankers.

I can just see you climbing into an A-380 with USAF insignia on it!!

Not!!!

Clay

Edit: Here's the link:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0505010308may01,1,788416.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

White SE
Yes, his name was Tex Johnston and he was a bit of a legend. When they asked him what made him do it he replyed, "I was selling the airplane." He did it twice over the Gold Cup race course with 300,000 people watching. According to the book 'Legend and Legacy' he came in over the lake at 300 ft. at 450 mph, pulled the plane up into a 35 degree climb and did a complete 360 degree roll. Then he did a reverse pass back over the lake and repeated the maneuver. Apparently an Air Force pilot did a full loop in a KC-135, which was the military 707, and got away with it although he ripped off the outboard engine pods. Those, it seems, were the good old days.

I kept a camera on a tripod all day waiting for it to fly over. Nothing. Took the camera inside around 6:00PM and was on the phone when It flew over again. Back out with the tripod. It's pretty hard to get a decent picture of a moving airplane. Here's the best shot.

- Pete

You know, now that I look at the picture, this is not the B17 that was flying yesterday. Too many tail fins and not enough engines. Is it a B24 or B25?

- Pete

And to keep TA happy. Here's a shot of a C17 sitting behind the building they build them in. He may not like them, but there are a bunch of folks here in the Long Beach area that employed making them.

- Pete

Those were tough airplanes the 707...one plane over LA went into a dive and permanently bent the wings I dont remember how many inches, and also lost an engine pod...Boeing pilots/airline pilots said that the plane actually flew better with the wings bent...LOL

Pete,
That sir, is definitly a B-24.....B-24 4 engines....B25 2 engines.

Russ

I see only two engines......wouldn't that make it a B25?

Here's an enlarged picture. I think it is a B24. It looks like it has two engines on the wing. Definately not the plane that was flying around yesterday.

- Pete

That is a B-24. The other picture with the moon shot is an A-26, a Douglas airplane. Anybody ever seen a single tail B-24? They're out there.

Fisherdude, I'll fly on anything they write me a check for.

TA, yeah some post-war Liberators (B-24) were single-tailed.Called: "Privateers" PB4Y's used by the Navy as patrol ships.
Coast Guard had 'em too. Civi-use as fire bombers, etc.
I don't know how it happened, but Winston Churchill had his own personal "single tail" Liberator DURING the war, about 1944.
Russ

The C-130 can be launched off the deck of a carrier in the length of the ship and they can also be assisted using the steam catapults. Hell, I've seen passenger planes shot off of the steam catapults loaded with personnel. They can land on a carrier deck too. In fact, here is a document that catalogs the first time they tried this:

http://www.navrescolorado.org/pdf/2004-01-03.pdf#search='C130%20landing%20on%20carrier%20dec k'

The C-130 airframe is pretty much unchanged since the time those photos were taken. They have had electronics and guidance system upgrades and more powerful engines but if they could do it in 1963, they can do it now. As you can see though, it is quite a tight fit and the pilot most likely cannot see the edge of the flight deck due to the flight position of the flight crew. Takes some balls to do it!

It is also common practice for a carrier to turn into the wind, when possible, to launch a flight. Not only does it assist in take off but it makes the deck more stable in high winds. In other words, if they turn into the wind, the ship won't be kicked around so much.

Last time I saw one of those Privateers was 1992 up in Fairbanks. Powers & Booth Aviation was using one as a water bomber.

The A-26 somebody posted was a hot airplane. Next to the B-17, it would be my second favorite recip. They modded those to bust up trucks on the Ho Chi Minh Trail with something like 16 or 18 forward firing .50 calibers.

I got home from work tonight and the B17 flew over just as I was getting out of the car. Set up the tripod and had real trouble catching it on its next pass. Then I got lucky. It came by again and flew right over the house.

Here it is on approach.


- Pete

Here it is overhead.

- Pete

Finally figured out the pattern. Tonight anyway, the B17 and B24 were alternating takeoffs about every 15 or 20 minutes. That would give each of them 30 minutes between takeoffs. A nice sunset cruise.

- Pete

Nice shots Pete! A "G" model to boot!

TA, I got lucky with the fly over. They have to make a wide left turn off the runway to pass over my house. I was determined to get a picture after talking up the B17 and then unwittingly posting a picture of the B24 Until that point I didn't realize I was seeing two different planes. My daughter thinks I'm a total geek standing in the back yard taking pictures of airplanes. My wife was convinced I was chasing ghosts.

- Pete

Yeah well it beats hanging out in bars.

Probably not as much fun.

- Pete

Drinking is fun. Hanging around in bars to do it is pathetic.

Don't aim any lasers at those planes unless you want a free pair of shiny chrome bracelets!

Anthony

Finally figured out who was behind these B17 and B24 flights. Here’s a link.

http://www.collingsfoundation.org/cf_schedule-wof.htm

Their schedule shows they are covering the west coast for the next few months. They will be around the greater LA area for awhile. For what it’s worth, they get 400 bucks for a 30 minute ride. (That’s more than it cost me to fly to the AK fest and back!) They claim it costs them $3,100 an hour to fly these planes.

A couple of other interesting facts, they claim the B17 is one of only 14 flying examples and the B24 is the only flying B24!

- Pete

About 5 years ago I ALMOST got a ride on that Collins B-17. They were about 5 miles from here at South Jersey Regional Airport. $275 for about a half hour ride. Me and 5 other guys paid up, and got told to "Stand over there, we're going to crank up the engines, taxi over to you, and then you guys hop in." They cranked, started to taxi, and promptly shut down the #3 engine. They couldn't get full power out of it. Now due to the aircraft having an "experimental" rating, they can't haul pax without a full complement of engines. They can only drive themselves around. They told me they were going to work on the engine overnight and to come back the next day. They worked on it to no avail. I showed up, but didn't receive a ride. I just got my check back and watched them take-off and head to their next destination. I was SOOOOOO close to getting a ride on a B-17. That's life.

Shit, I though B17s could fly on one engine. 3 should be more than enough! But I feel your pain. About three weeks ago I had a seat reserved on the Goodyear Blimp. I'm psyched for the ride but that morning I get a phone call, too windy to fly so sorry. They said they would try to reschedule but I'm still waiting.

- Pete

I think a lightly loaded 17 could prolly do fine on one engine-maybe not take-off, but fly OK-but, decommisioned warbirds operate under those "experimental" rules-and there's a LOT of folks would like to see 'em grounded permanently. They're "dangerous", you see,-remember the privately-owned F-4 that crashed a few years back & killed a whole bunch of folks?-Sandy G.

TA, I feel your pain. Many moons ago (early '84) I was at Osan AB (ROK) and my new brother-in-law was the NCOIC of the pararescue guys. He tried to set up a ride when they took a Jolly Green out to Koon-Ni firing range but the bird broke the day I was off. I was SO looking forward to trying that Minigun..... :sigh: Also, a buddy in my home town, (Racine, Wisc) friend for 30+ years and SERIOUS WW2 history fiend as am I, casually mentioned that he'd gotten a FREE ride (paid by his boss) in a B17, got to ride in the nose, and even went out over Lake Michigan, etc.. :cry: But lately a guy I know at the Commissary
said it should be no prob to get on the B-52 flight simulator... :D
BTW TA, Do you know what a KC-135 is?

Answer: 3 officers flying an NCO to work!

When I heard this years ago (from an old tanker Msgt I really enjoyed it as I was just enlisted swine!

Stu Lenzke
USAF '78-'98

We don't have navs anymore, so it's just two bus drivers taking me to and from the job.

NOW I understand the venom behind the C-17 comments..You're a boomer! Did they teach anything about (over) Palomares, Spain, January 17th, 1966 in tech school? When did they dump the navs? @1992 my next door neighbor was a tail gunner and when G.H.W.B. took the 52s off alert they crosstrained him into helicopters... the mental image of a C-17 close enough to a 135 to get clipped UNDERneath by the boom is really really scary..How did the boom operator take it? What do you know of the F-4 'towing' incident?

Stu Lenzke



Sorry, I didn't mean to BE the Spanish Inquisition...

Hey Stu, what would it take for lil ol me to get some time on a B52 stimulator? Before video games were available I figured that a full bore sim would be a helluva toy! As a matter of fact, as a kid I had built a cockpit mockup out of WWII surplus.....yeah, I was a weird kid....and now am a weird adult (at least I'm in an adult's body!)

Anthony (second childhood? hell, I ain't done with the first one!)

How about the B-36? ? ? My Dad was a bombardier on the 17/24/36 and finally a tail gunner on both the 36 and 52.

I remember crawling all over the 36, still get goose bumps thinking about it. I used to spend hours just watching them take off and land as we lived on the base mostly untill my Dad retired in 1958. . . He was in SAC 99th or 101st bomb wing IIRC. . .

Great memories from that time. . .

The're back and have been pretty active this morning. This time there are three planes. A B-17, B-24 and now a B-25. The B-25 seems faster than the other two. The 17 and 24 are 4 engine planes but seem to take off very slowly. The B-25 only has two engine but looks noticably faster. Must be a lot smaller and lighter.

- Pete

Being in the government surplus business, you run into people that have ex-military stuff.. I have a business associate that has a T - 28, an old Navy trainer. Flying bores me, but he picked me up at the local airstrip one Saturday and flew me up to the Cal-Oregon border to visit his nephew. WHAT A BLAST! Your seat cushion is your parachute, and they are so loud that you have to wear ear protection. Sweet.

He also has an OH-6 helicopter that he just got licensed for, and his last project is going to be a T37 trainer jet (Cessna, I think). I'd give my left nut to ride in that, but I think I'm too fat!!! Maybe if I start the diet today....................

Does anyone know if there are any flyable B-36s left, or have they all been turned into siding or cat food cans?

Sandy, do a web search. There are several books on that plane. It looks like a monster. It would be a very expensive plane for a privateer to maintain and fly. It doesn’t have the same cache as the WWII vintage stuff so my guess is if there are any around they are in static display.

- Pete

Here. . .

Yeah, the B-36 was like the biggest plane they ever made up until the jets took over. The early ones had 6 P&W Wasp Major engines-the infamous "corncob" motors-& the later ones had 4 J-57 turbojets in addition to the big radials to help urge 'em along. They even rigged up a functioning nuclear reactor on one & flew it around-but scrapped that after someone pointed out that airplanes DO fall outta the sky occasionally, & having radioactive wreckage strewn all over the place was, well, something that was prolly NOT a good thing.I read somewhere once that a 36 was bigger on the inside than a lot of apartments in Manhattan...but maybe that's not saying all that much..

A Cesna is bigger than many apartments in Manhattan.

- Pete

There are no B-36's driving around. Haven't been for many, many years.

The B-36 was a fine airplane . I remember my Dad always talking about them. He was in SAC and had over 10,000 hours of Combat Flying time much of which were on a 36. He went to 52s a few years before he retired with 21 years in 1958.

He started as a bombardier on a 36 then retired as a Tail Gunner on the 52. . .I still think about his stories and wish I knew them well enough to share. He went through WWII and Korea not to mention a couple of marriages. I do know he missed that airplane though. Sometimes I think he liked it better than the 52.

One thing I remember partially was the 36's performance and how high it could fly. . .Awesome airplane. . .

Reckon one might show up on eBay????? :bigok: :deal:

Back on July 4th 1994 a coworker of mine and I got the chance to fly the EAA's B-17 out of Truax in Madison WI. Being members of the EAA we were able to buy 15 minutes worth of pilot seat time as it was flying over Madison. Each paying member rotated in and out of the pilot's seat and actually flew the Flying Fortress for those 15 minutes. That's me in the two pictures. I was lucky enough to turn the big bird 180 degrees and head it back towards Truax. Being a WWII buff and big fan of the B-17 this opportunity was one I couldn't pass up! The EAA eventually had to stop selling the flying time and only allow rides which they still do today. I've got both stills and video of my flying time and someday hope to have it put on DVD. As to the B-36 there is one at the Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio. As are the B-58, B-52, XB-70 etc. etc. Nothing like a Wright Cyclone!! :thmbsp:

A guy called Don Brooks owns the local warbirds, and he has a salvage company,,,I may ask him for a job!

The B-36 never saw combat. The other aircraft he crewed on saw plenty.

The B-36 never saw combat. The other aircraft he crewed on saw plenty.


Counting all the combat hours flying in his 21 years while in B-17, /25s/ 36s and finally 52s. . .I don't know how it broke out for each plane. . .He flew with Colin Kelly among other notables . . .

I was only in the 7th grade when he retired so most of what I know was from what I was told over the years since. . .

I do know that he shot down two Russian MiGs during Korea but I have no idea in what plane. . .I guess I assumed that he would have to have been a gunner of some sort and prior to 36s he was a bombardier. . .

Lots of great war stories that I remember. . . I think he spent 11 years or so during the occupation. . . I remember the "Treasures' he brought home from that time. I wish they would have kept some of that stuff. I was pretty young then. . .

The 36 was, IIRC,originally designed to bomb Germany from America, in case we had lost England...Originally, it had a single wheel main landing gear, the tire looked like something you'd see on a piece of road-grading equipment. they later re-designed it to a more conventional multi-wheel bogie like what is used today. It's a good thing WW2 ended when it did, a lot of us wouldn't be here, 'cause our dads would have got it in the invasion of Japan that was being planned for late '45 or early '46. Seems like casualty estimates were on the order of a million-million & a half men to conquer Japan...

B-29's and A-26's were multi-engines that saw combat in Korea.

B-29's and A-26's were multi-engines that saw combat in Korea.

I forgot about the BOEING B-29 "SUPERFORTRESS"

Do you remember the other bombers nicknames?? Wasnt the A-Bomb dropped by the 29?? Enola Gay????

B-25 Mitchell Bomber
B-17 Flying Fortress
B-36 Peacemaker
B-52 StratoFortress
B-47 Stratojet
B-26 Marauder
B-1 Lancer

Yep. And there's one flying B-29 left, the Confederate Air Force's "Fifi".

Can't forget the B-24 :thmbsp:

There are two DC-3s operated by a little air cargo company that fly a milk run between the Long Beach airport and Catalina island every day. They fly over my house all the time. I always stop to watch when I hear them comming. Those radial engines have a very cool sound and it is just unbelievable that those 60 year old airplanes are still at work every day.

- Pete


Yes it is quite a airplane once they quit making the wing's out of magnisum that makes a realy hot plane underfire :smoke:

Last time I saw one of those Privateers was 1992 up in Fairbanks. Powers & Booth Aviation was using one as a water bomber.

The A-26 somebody posted was a hot airplane. Next to the B-17, it would be my second favorite recip. They modded those to bust up trucks on the Ho Chi Minh Trail with something like 16 or 18 forward firing .50 calibers.


I lived in Anchorage for 10 years and had been flying with my dad for about 15 years

I took flying lessons out of merill field is the most active private airfield in the world

well they also count a touch and go as a landing and a takeoff and over the Cook inlet there was a airspace restriction Elmendorf AFB below 800 or over 2000'
If i rember right and the F-16's would see you out there and turn toward's you or fly up on ya high and slow they dont look big up in the sky but let me tell you that there a whole lot bigger than my little azz ....a C-130 had gone over head once i caught all living hell in his propwash turbulence
caused bye the prop's and the wing's swirls aft of the plane reaping a hell on a little guy I miss Alaska what a place :smoke:


I soloed @ 11.9 hours let me tell you that that was the bigest high i had ever been on and the most fear in my life

My Instructor was 6' 6" about 240 # that cessna 152 skyhawk jumped off the runway

I keep LQQKING to the right seat going oh chit oh chit well he said give me 3 touch and go's
than do what ever you want ..............2 hours go by i had 6 hours of fuel left
and the sun was going down fast lol I had no previous night instruction a whole diffrent ball game

tower say's 063 your Instructor is worried please make a full stop !!

my reply was 063 :thmbsp:

I just found out that this local guy Don Brooks is the one that recently got the B-29 out of under the ice in the Arctic...

The're back and have been pretty active this morning. This time there are three planes. A B-17, B-24 and now a B-25. The B-25 seems faster than the other two. The 17 and 24 are 4 engine planes but seem to take off very slowly. The B-25 only has two engine but looks noticably faster. Must be a lot smaller and lighter.

- Pete

About 9000# lighter.... :yes:

White,

You talking about that B-29 that burned up when they were ready to fly it out of there? I make no bones about it, if that's the one, I cried my eyes out for those guys.

I remember that program well....I am meeting with the guy next week,,I will ask to make sure...in case there were two programs...or 2 rescued planes...

The planes are still here and active this time of day. I've tried to get some new pictures but haven't had any luck. They are taking off the long runway without turning. It goes off to the north west and I'm pretty much due west of the airport. They have to turn hard left to fly over my place. To top it off, they don't gain much altitude so I just get a glimps of them between trees and rooftops.

I see the pictures from last year got lost in the server crash so here's the B17 again.

- Pete

White,

You talking about that B-29 that burned up when they were ready to fly it out of there? I make no bones about it, if that's the one, I cried my eyes out for those guys.

That was in Greenland... A test pilot / collector pulled that off. Rebuilt the whole thing 250 miles from nowhere on the ice, motors, control surfaces, tires. Plowed out a 2000 ft runway. Months of grueling, freezing work and just when they're headed to the runway, poof. That was just horrible. :pity:

Here I found the guy...here is his web site:

liberty foundation (http://www.libertyfoundation.org/history2.php)




With the turn of the millennium, the B-17 was purchased by aviation enthusiast Don Brooks. Having a longtime goal to restore a Flying Fortress, Don had made multiple attempts to acquire a B-17 for over a decade. He helped finance and was directly involved in the Greenland Expedition’s search for B-17’s in Greenland and the recovery of the P-38 “Glacier Girl”. During the Greenland expedition, they discovered a B-17, but it was crushed under the weight of several hundred feet of ice. Not giving up, Don made other efforts to receive salvage rights to recover a B-17 in Canada that has been underwater for over 50 years. Finally, Don became closer to his dream by concluding a deal for 44-85734 being restored at the Flying Tiger’s Museum.

Mr. Brooks, whose father flew as a crew member in B-17’s during WWII,founded the Liberty Foundation, a 501(c)3 Museum that owns and will operate the aircraft. He choose to paint it as the “Liberty Belle” to honor his father, the thousands who served in 390th based in Framlingham, England and the many who fought for the Allies. The aircraft will be a living, breathing reminder of these aircraft and the men who flew and supported them. Don has been responsible for the preservation of several other vintage aircraft, including a C-47 that was used during the 1944 D-Day invasion and is completing the restoration of a rare P-40. His drive and dedication is extraordinary and we all look forward to seeing the results of his vision.

In February 2004, after over 12 years since the restoration began, the B-17 was extracted with only inches to spare from within the hangar’s confines. Being 90% reassembled, it is in the final stages of restoration and once again gracefully take to the air this summer!

The restoration exceeds 3-million dollars and its operation will only possible by the generous contributions and private donations received

The Greenland one was a heartbreaker. One of the guys actually died during the process. Contracted some kind of bad sickness during the project up there and DIED. They get the whole thing re-built, plow out a runway and taxiway. They are ready to fly it out. They start the engines, and the vibrations from the big recips starts vibrating the fuel tank for the APU (which is located above the APU. BAD positioning you Boeing gents!) Anyhow, the fuel tank starts leaking onto the really hot APU, fire starts, and these guys have barely enough time to scramble out. They end up sitting on beach chairs and watching the fruits of two years labor go up in flames right before their eyes. ANYBODY would've/should've cried.

Bonus question - What was their re-supply/support aircraft?

A DC-3?

- Pete

Negative, but you're onto something with the two-engine recip. I worked on these things for a year and a half as a hydraulic troop before becoming a boom operator.

On of my great uncles flew B-26 Marauders in WW-II......some of the stories he could tell....especially the one about flying under the Golden Gate Bridge........Damn near got him canned...........

DeHavilland C-7 "Caribou".

My squadron had 16 of these up until we got -135 tankers.

Aww, man, I remember seeing that show about the B-29...They just basically had to sit there & watch 'er burn..What a shame !!!

If I am not mistaken,the fuel pump for the APU was fried so they went with a simple(but dangerous)gravity fed fuel delivery system for the apu.The vibration caused the fuel to spill onto the hot exhaust manifold of the APU thus causing the fire and tragically destroying the aircraft.THe restores even found new NOS engines for the 29 that they purchased for 10 thousand bucks apiece.

Aww, man, I remember seeing that show about the B-29...They just basically had to sit there & watch 'er burn..What a shame !!!


Yes, I remember this tragic loss of an ultra-rare warbird. Heartbreaking to say the least! Credit to the crew for the work involved, but my opinion still stands....That aircraft should have been dis-assembled completely and flown out of there in pieces to be properly restored under better controlled conditions. A rare "minty" B-29 would have been worth the time & expense. Now its gone forever because "Race Bannon" had to fly it out soley for the glory of it all.

BIG aircraft like a B-29 would mean huge componet parts even stripped down completely but it could have been done.( Been done before!)

Oooooh! What a waste! That whole incident STILL pushes my buttons.

Russ

Russ

I have very detailed photo's of the cockpit on Fifi having been given a chance to stay aboard after everyone left so I wouldn't have any people in the photo's

You can see them here:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=132803

The tunnel shot is one of my favorite aircraft photo's

12 O'Clock High!!!!!!

There's a good book out there about 130's. I think it's called "Herky Bird" or something like that.

Is this the book?
http://www.dive-bombers.co.uk/Herk.htm

Finally figured out who was behind these B17 and B24 flights. Here’s a link.

http://www.collingsfoundation.org/cf_schedule-wof.htm

Their schedule shows they are covering the west coast for the next few months. They will be around the greater LA area for awhile. For what it’s worth, they get 400 bucks for a 30 minute ride. (That’s more than it cost me to fly to the AK fest and back!) They claim it costs them $3,100 an hour to fly these planes.

A couple of other interesting facts, they claim the B17 is one of only 14 flying examples and the B24 is the only flying B24!

- Pete

I have to get out to the Collins site sometime. The trio of bombers was hitting the local airports all over New England a few years back & A friend of mine went skydiving out of the bomb bay on either the B-24 or the B-17. IIRC, you could pay $100 to go up for 15 minutes & $300 to jump out (of a perfectly good airplane).

I knew nothing about this organization until one afternoon over by the Norwood, MA airport I heard the unmistakable sound of the bombers. Right over the car went the B-17 & the B-24!

"*&%$**#(#))*)##))*)#, those are WWII warbids! #*^#()@__#@_& #&^*%#@&*_ is going on?"

You get the drift. That night on the news, the birds were everywhere. The next day I searched up the Collins Foundation and discovered they don't have regular openings, you have to schedule a tour. But, they said just come on by if you are in the area as there is usually someone around. You'd be welcome to check out the collection. I really don't get what's up with these people but I sure like their style.

As an aside, my home is about 5 miles, as the crow flys, from the Pats stadium. First game of the season, we are directly under the F-18 flyover. which is 2 or 4 planes. They shoot over at perhaps as low as 500 feet, the planes look big they are so close. Oh, is that cool! What a noise!

Any of you planning a trip to Oshkosh this year? Trying to work it out to head over w/brother-in-law and nephew to take it in. It'd be a good year to go...the Airline History Museum's fully-restored Super Constellation will be in attendance...a must-see. I've seen her fly several times....always get the chills. Pure flying sculpture. The story behind the plane is cool...20-odd years ago, a guy's driving thru Arizona and sees signs for an auction. Follows the signs, and ends up at an airport. Seems this shoestring cargo operation had gone belly-up, and all the assets were to go. Curious, he's following a pickup with the auctioneer in the back down the flightline as a variety of DC-4s, DC-6s, etc. go on the block. They pull up to this ratty old Connie, and the auctioneer starts the action. No bids. So, the guy goes "$4,000" just to get things going. No other bids. "Sold!" He then had to call his wife and say "Guess what I bought, honey." A group of retired TWA guys in Kansas City had been looking for a Connie to restore, got wind of this guy, paid him for his trouble, then headed for Arizona for several weeks of quick and dirty resto work to ferry the plane back to KC. I think it took about 4 years to get her in showable condition. TWA was nice enough to relent on their original stand and allow the group to paint her up in authetic 50s TWA livery. A sight (and sound) to behold.

I was in KC in 2001. There was a Super Connie in TWA livery on the way from the airport into town. Looked like it was at what was the old airport. It really snapped my head around when I saw it but I never tracked down what the story was. I agree, they are fantastically proportioned & graceful appearing planes.

As an aside, my father-in-law was a radar operator in the Air Force and did a brief stint on an EC-121 (Super Connie AWAC). Said it was the loudest damn plane he'd ever flown on!

Any of you planning a trip to Oshkosh this year? Trying to work it out to head over w/brother-in-law and nephew to take it in. It'd be a good year to go...the Airline History Museum's fully-restored Super Constellation will be in attendance...a must-see. I've seen her fly several times....always get the chills. Pure flying sculpture. The story behind the plane is cool...20-odd years ago, a guy's driving thru Arizona and sees signs for an auction. Follows the signs, and ends up at an airport. Seems this shoestring cargo operation had gone belly-up, and all the assets were to go. Curious, he's following a pickup with the auctioneer in the back down the flightline as a variety of DC-4s, DC-6s, etc. go on the block. They pull up to this ratty old Connie, and the auctioneer starts the action. No bids. So, the guy goes "$4,000" just to get things going. No other bids. "Sold!" He then had to call his wife and say "Guess what I bought, honey." A group of retired TWA guys in Kansas City had been looking for a Connie to restore, got wind of this guy, paid him for his trouble, then headed for Arizona for several weeks of quick and dirty resto work to ferry the plane back to KC. I think it took about 4 years to get her in showable condition. TWA was nice enough to relent on their original stand and allow the group to paint her up in authetic 50s TWA livery. A sight (and sound) to behold.

Connies were reputedly "hot" planes, & they lorded it the DC-4,6,& 7 drivers by saying, "It takes a REAL man to handle 3 pieces of tail..."

Yah, Sandy...that's a good one! The late Len Morgan (Flying mag. writer) captained one for Brannif (there's a name from the past) back in the 50s. Had quite a few tales to relate regarding Connie quirks. For example, the windshield defroster consisted of two "cake pans", as they called them, with exposed heating coils inside. A pilot or copilot would sometimes get a nasty burn if they reached for the top of the instrument panel for a little help in jacking their seat up closer/higher. Lockheed design guru Kelly Johnson was responsible for the Connie, as well as nearly every Lockheed design from the mid-30s up through the SR-71. His mantra was "simplify and add lightness".
If you look at an overhead drawing of a Connie and compare it with an overhead drawing of a P-38 Lightning, you'll see the Kelly used the exact same wing planform for both planes...just a matter of scale. Most pilots who flew both the Connie and various four-engined Douglas birds felt the Connie was more of a thoroughbred...very responsive and relatively easy to fly. But, they were built in much smaller numbers, were somewhat maintenance-intensive...and thus now qualify as a "rara avis", On the other hand, there's still a decent number of small cargo operators running DC-6s..which had the added advantage of P&W R-2800 power...a bulletproof, easy-to-maintain engine.