The Sansui sound

[Pat S.]

Hey folks,

I was over at www.sansui.us looking at the eye candy and reading about the integrated amps. It says that the Sansui amplifiers of the early-80's and after sounded different from the ones produced in the 70's. Specifically, the author notes that the earlier models were brighter sounding while the ones from the early-80's generally had softer highs and more extended lows. Does anyone care to comment on this? For example, Beatlefred, you have some very nice Sansui gear from both of these periods and I know that your brother has an AU-D11 (ca. 1980-82). Do you hear a major difference between, say, your AU-20000 and his D11? I know that each amp has a different power rating and uses very different circuitry, but I was just curious if your observations are similar to those posted at the Sansui website.

There is one thing mentioned at the Sansui site that I definately disagree with and it has to do with the much-debated topic of the decline in quality of Sansui products. The author mentions that the overall build quality of Sansui components began to go down hill during the early-80's and points to the AU-D11 as an example of this decline. I'm no expert on Sansui gear, but I can tell you that there is nothing cheap about the D11 or the D11ll (which I happen to own). These amps feature all metal construction (no plastic), very high-quality components, and excellent workmanship. They are also quite heavy at approx. 40lbs each. I believe that Sansui was still making some really good stuff during this period and that it wasn't until a few years later that build quality really began to take a nose dive. What do you guys think?

Regards,
Pat

[BeatleFred]

Hello Pat:

Do not be overly concerned my friend, BeatleFrederick here is already a step ahead of the situation:) I have been corresponding with Isao, the person who hosts the sansui.us site. I have already 'enlightened' him a while ago about the AU-D11 and I have sent him copies of the impressive reviews from S.R. 6/81 & Audio 2/82. He had mentioned he was going to post those reviews, I havent seen them yet on the site, perhaps he need some extra time to add the info. I have also pointed out some other things that needed to be corrected on the site- such as taking the BA-2000 & CA-2000 amp & preamp out of the Defintion Series section, as they were not Defintion Series models- only the BA-5000, BA-3000, CA-3000, and AU-20000 were. (And thats not to knock the CA-2000, because thats a great preamp and I happen to have that very one) but just for the sake of accuracy I wanted to have that clarified. And thats certainly not to knock Isao, as putting a site like that together is quite a bit of work and effort, so its inevitable that a few slip-ups are made. Me and him have been discussing ways to combine our resources so as to make the sansui.us site even bigger and better, so stay tuned for more info on that as it develops.

As for comparing amps: Thats a bit difficult to say, I am still in the evaluating process and havent made any final, definite conclusions yet. Its hard to compare the AU-20000 or whatever other amp, to my brother's AU-D11- because they are both in separate houses in different systems. In order to make a more meaningful comparison, it would be required to have both amps side by side- and then compare them when they can be connected to the exact same cd player, speakers, and even interconnect cables.

As for the 80's quality decline: While there is visual evidence of that by seeing the liter construction quality- more plastic and so forth- that doesnt necesarily mean that the circuitry inside was correspondingly flimsy. I have been corresponding with someone from the sansui.us site who just acquired a 1983 Sansui Z-9000X receiver. And he has done alot of bench repair work on many hi fi models in the past so he is quite knowledgeable. He told me that the Z-9000X he has is fairly impressive in its internal construction and shows no signs of being a 'lightweight' in the power dept, even into 4 ohms. So, I think there might be some false beliefs regarding some post-70's equipment. And let it be noted, that in the 80's trend of cutting down in size, weight etc, it wasnt just Sansui who did that, but all the other well-known brands as well. B/F.

[moondog]

Hey Beat - What ever happened to the Sansui Appreciation site? I know you had some minor problems with owner, but that was a great site! I haven't been able to get there for a while now.

:confused:

Moon

[BeatleFred]

Hi mOOn: The classic sansui site has been down for a while, not sure when it'll be back up- you'd have to ask good ol Dave, who hosts the site, about that. In the meantime, they use the Yahoo Sansui Groups. Or..., you could visit www.sansui.us instead, there is a Message bd and Guestbook there in the Feedback Section:)

As for me and Dave: he has to ahem, "approve" messages before they get posted on his site, they dont get posted right away, sometimes not until the next day which I think really bogs down the communication process. I had merely mentioned that to someone else in one of my messages, just a mere mention, NOT a rant or anything about it, and Dave didnt like it. I explained my feelings on it to him and he didnt see it as I did. Sent me some name-calling emails and thats when I say buh-bye, I'm outta there. Ive often gone out of my way to help people on his site by researching info to answer their questions and thats what I get in return from Dave? After his negative comments to me, I said no point for me to contribute any time to his site, let HIM do the research /answer the questions. I asked him to remove all of the info I posted in the database of serial #'s but he hasnt done it. I cant do anythign about that, so I'll just leave it as is, and as for Dave, all I can say, is "Thanks for nothing, see you never". B/F.

[Pat S.]

Fred,

Thanks for the info. concerning my post. I hope I didn't come across as being overly critical of Isao or his site. I think that he has some really valuable info. there and it wasn't my intention to be nit-picky. I was just surprised that he perceived the D11 to be of inferior build quality.

As for sound comparasons, you bring up a good point about needing the components to be used in the same system in order to fairly evaluate them. I was speaking more about any casual observations you may have had. For instance, I used to have an AU-517 and a 9090 (non-db version) and they sounded very similar in my system despite their considerable differences in power output and curcuit design. I always thought of these units as having that traditional Sansui sound; clean, bright but never piercing, and detailed. Then I picked up my D11ll and noticed that it did sound fairly different from those two models. Like Isao mentions, the D11 was more neutral in the midrange with mellower highs and greater low-end extension. I liked it so much that I ended up selling the others. I'm not saying its a better unit, I just happen to prefer it. Still, my personal observations were far from being scientific or extensive. I was just looking for some other comparasons people might have had.

Regards,
Pat:) :)

[BeatleFred]

Hi Pat:

Well, I think you can basically categorize each Line of Sansui integrated amp by the circuit design that the company utilized. DC for the "One-Seven" Line (AU-717, 517....) (DC meaning Direct Coupled), "Diamond Differential" as on the AU-919, then "Super Feed Forward" in the early 80's with the AU-D11 & AU-D9 and then moving to GF (Ground Free) with the D11II and AU-D77X, and then "X-Balanced" for the AU-G Line of 1985-87, and then "Alpha X balanced" in the last part of the 80's with models such as AU-X901, AU-X701.... (Just to give a quick run through, though there are other models I left out such as BA-F1 which has "Super Fidelity DD/DC" in green print beneath the white print of the model # indicating that each new design encompasses the design that came before it and added on to it).

The designs in their amplifiers may have also been been utilized to a greater or lesser degree in their receivers, such as the Super Feed Forward also being used in the Z-9000X...3000X Line. This might have also been the case in the 70's too, where the 9090 design, for example, might have been come from the AU7900, 6900...Line (notice identical selector knobs they share- interesting to notice these things when you take the time to make these keen observations that can be easy to overlook). And the "Pure Power" G models certainly used the DC design as on the AU integrated's.

As for the name "Super Feed Forward"- instead of feeding BACK..., you feed....-> forward:)

Regards, B/F. Proud Owner of AU-X1- not just an integrated amplifier, but as its written in white print, its a "Super Integrated Amplifier" :) Also has in green print: "Ultra High Speed DD/DC".

I think the G model Receivers said it best and straight to the point in two direct words: PURE POWER. :)

[BeatleFred]

ps- by the way, Pat, as for the D11II you have- ChanWengChoy (Albert) owns one and also, Dry Basement. Both very knowledgeable fellows, so if they own that model, 'Ya know it has to be good! So you're in good company:) Enjoy. B/F.

[Pat S.]

B/F,

Once again, thanks for the great info!:)

As for the D11ll, I knew it was a great amp after hearing it for 30 seconds.

Regards,
Pat