PC as source component [Archive] - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

RobV

05-26-2005, 08:32 PM

I've been using a PC more and more lately as the source component for my stereo system. Primarily for internet radio bitstreams (128mps mp3). I just got a Chaintech AV-710 sound card for $25 (an upgrade from a $30 Turtle Beach Santa Cruz). I'm very happy with both the analog output (24bit/96mhz) and the digital output.

I've got the onboard sound configured as the default sound for Windows XP; the sound card is only used by my audio player. This is important because the PC (an old 1.0ghz PIII) is the family's 'backup' PC, used by my wife and kids when the newer PC upstairs is in use. Whatever they do (games, web surfing noises) doesn't interrupt my bitstream. :)

Any one else using their PC as source? What are you using?

jaywills

05-27-2005, 08:23 AM

Good morning. For the past couple of months or so, I've been experimenting with Apple lossless files via iTunes as my primary signal source with surprisngly good results. Bought an old Mac Cube (using Tiger OS 10.4.1) off ebay for a couple of hundred bucks because it's fanless/noiseless. Run usb out to an Edirol UA-5 (using the Tiger drivers, 2.1.0) set at "96 kHz play" (front rotary dial) and switched to "advanced" (back-side switch). The s/pdif output of the UA-5 goes into the digital input of a TacT 2.0 room correction device (BTW, the TacT, which shows input signal frequency, shows the Edirol signal as 96 kHz, which leads me to wonder if the Tiger Core Audio is upsampling the 44.1 files). The TacT s/pdif out runs into an outboard ack! dac, which is connected to a tubed Melos preamp and thence to a Transcendent Sound OTL amp. Speakers are Quad 63's. This has proven to be the most enjoyabily listenable setup that I've had in some time. In fact, I've not used any cd transport for redbook cd files in over six weeks. I'm still giving it some time to make sure, but it's increasingly likely that my cd transport days are over. There's a thirty buck remote for the Mac that lets me manage/play the iTunes files from my listening spot, which is an added convenience. Bottom line: the $220 Mac Cube plus the $100 Edirol UA-5 (ebay also) seems to completely smash the performance I was getting from my (fully broken-in) Sony DVP9000ES. That's my 2 cents. Cordially,

rickwood

06-07-2005, 08:49 PM

My '99 Compaq presario has been assigned music duty. The integrated audio headphone out is patched to my 5.1 reciever and although it picks up some noise, fidling with line level and reciever volume generally yields decent sound. I try to keep 192kbps as my minimum bitrate. I am currently looking into higher quality soundcard-speaker combos.

edit: but at what point does the music format/sampling rate become the fidelity bottleneck?

VintageNut

06-07-2005, 10:35 PM

My cheap, but works great for me, motherboard by Via cost me about 60.00, it has the Integrated Realtek ALC655 6-channel AC'97 audio chipset, specs say it's 16 bit stereo, the strange thing is I think it sounds pretty good. What would I notice with a good quality sound card?

OvenMaster

06-08-2005, 07:40 AM

Jeez, all I got is an eMachines with the Realtek integrated sound and a pair of Advent Powered Partners velcro'd to the monitor. I tweaked the response with the bundled equalizer and I'm a happy camper. But, hey, what do I know?
Tom

VintageNut

06-08-2005, 08:02 AM

I guess the surprising thing is how good the cheap PC hardware sounds these days. I have my T-amp connected to my PC, and people are amazed how good it sounds. They are really amazed when I show them my anti-snobby, 20 gauge cheap speaker wire, it's only about 3 feet so it works OK, the $1.49 plastic housed RCA miniplug adaptor, for the input to the T-amp. , and then the plastic ,toy-like T-amp itself. The setup looks like something you would give a 8 year old to take to school. I'll probably upgrade some things on this setup, but for now, it's kinda fun to have it so cheap looking.

Strawman

06-08-2005, 10:01 AM

I prefer "budget" over "cheap". I had a bunch of stuff laying around so I decided to try and set up a PC based system. So far I am running Soundforge thru a mixer into an old ISA Soundblaster thru a pair of Roland monitors. They are self powered, but how would I tie in an amp or reciever into this hodgepodge, into the mixer input?

dmd845

06-08-2005, 10:19 AM

I am using a Sharp Laptop with 80 hours of music ripped at high vbr. I use Foobar 2000 as my media player. Currently using the analog outputs from the headphone jack (then mini-rca adaptor) into a Margules ADE-24 Analog/Digital Enhancer. Works in the analog domain and really smooths the cd to be more analog-like. From there my Sansui AU-777 feeds a modest pair of bookshelf speakers.

My goal is to add the Audigy NZ Notebook soundcard so I can run optical into my CI Audio DAC, then into the ADE 24. Also, looking to acquire 500gb usb/firewire drives so I can rip my entire CD collection. Hope to do DIY horn speakers using either Fostex or Jordan drivers.

My CD transport days are through.

My laptop has built-in WIFI so I use it around the house regularly. Recently, instead of cobbling together a home theater for the bedroom, I got an old rattan basket about 36 inches high with a top. Stuffed the PC subwoofer and speakers into it. I set my laptop on top of the basket whenever we want to watch movies in the bedroom and plug in the speakers. Works great! The rattan is acoustically transparent. Hides all that ugly equipment and wires. And I didn't have to spend any more money for movie in the bedroom functionality. I also use it for my jukebox for audio when I am back there. I really love the flexibility!

The results on my Sansui are extremely satisfying. I am getting ready to sell a bunch of modern equipment that I paid hard-earned bucks for since I found the joy of assembling a great system for relatively little money.

David

dbwinger

06-08-2005, 10:37 AM

My computer "rig" is my main rig since I live in a studio and space is at a premium.

A couple of years back I built my own pc. I have an overclocked to 2.0 ghz AMD cpu with a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card. I plan to eventually upgrade to a Chaintech or an M-Audio soundcard.

My line out on my soundcard goes to my HK A-402 integrated amp. Most of the time I have a stack of Large Advents (usually only use one pair) hooked up to my amp. Before I upgraded the crossovers on one pair of Advents I had previously hooked up AR 5's, KLH Model Fives, Dynaco A30XL's, and some EPI M150's with the wrong woofers. I use my rebuilt Advents a majority of the time. During late night rock out sessions I use my Grado SR-60 headphones.

I totally forgot I have the Acoustic Research TDS202 hooked up to the amp also and use it periodically. I also have a Sonic Impact T-amp that I used a little bit with my computer rig. I want to get a wall adapter before I think about using the T-amp for an extended time. I currently have it hooked up to my TV with some Dynaco A30XL's hooked up to it when I watch DVDs.

To answer the question posed by vintagenut when I switched from onboard sound to my PCI soundcard everything sounded clearer andf fuller. Another plus was that there wasn't the lag from waiting for the board to process the sounds. I found sounds would take a couple of seconds to play where as the PCI soundcard things were instant. PCI soundcards don't rely on the boards resources as much. If you don't want to drop a lot of cash on a soundcard the Chaintech AV-710 is a killer card for $25.

RobV

06-08-2005, 01:43 PM

dbwinger,

When I switched from the TBSC to the AV-710, I noticed two things - the AV-710 revealed more details, but the the TBSC had more bass. And this is using the digital output of each! I use foobar2000 with kernel streaming output (no DSPs) and can't get over how good the 128mbps bitstream internet radio stations sound. I sold my Sansui TU-719 tuner a few months ago because internet radio sounds better to me and is relatively commercial free. :D

RobV

JimmyNeutron

06-08-2005, 01:50 PM

I've been using a computer as my music server in some form or other for the past 10 years. First few years it was using the line outs on the card to feed directly to my stereo's AUX input. Then came the Soundblaster line of cards that featured a seperate "digital box" with SPDIF and coax in's and out's, which fed to my recievers digital inputs (a major leap in sound quality as the reciever's DAC's handled all conversion). But what I have right now I feel is the best way to get your MP3's, internet radio streaming, from your main computer server to ANY stereo system in your house. I have an old Gateway Pentium 2 300mHz computer with a 150 gig hard drive filled with 600 CD's worth of music ripped at 320k, and it sits in my closet connected to my wireless router. In my bedroom and in my theater room I have a ROKU wireless media "tube". It's a wireless box that accesses my server in the closet wirelessly and I can see all songs on the display and pick them - in any order, playlists, random, etc. It also streams internet music stations, and it connects to my stereos with either digital output or standard RCA stereo output. All controlled with a remote control - too cool. I bought them off ebay real cheap. The sound is fantastic because the mp3's remain digital until your stereo decodes them using it's own DAC's. No cables, no blind navigation, no having to get up and go to the computer to play certain songs and skip others - it's just like a component in your rack. ROKU, as well as a ton of other companies have already released versions that will play your video's, pictures, and sound files - all thru your TV using Hi-Def component outputs - and for around $200.00!!! It makes me wonder why music servers from McIntosh and Escient are even in the market selling their versions for thousands more than using your computer!! And the computer is flexible, and can be upgraded, and......well you get the jist of it.

shrinkboy

06-08-2005, 02:26 PM

god i feel stupid right now

JimmyNeutron

06-08-2005, 03:17 PM

And why is that, Shrinkboy?

shrinkboy

06-08-2005, 03:24 PM

because i am a liberal arts major in a world of techies. i do well getting my main system wired up right and the sources playing through the right function buttons on my preamp. computers as music servers!? that's a quantum leap beyond for the old baby boomer/raised in an analogue world dude here.

OvenMaster

06-08-2005, 05:04 PM

Shrink, if you got any questions, ask us, okay? That's why we're here!
Tom

Reel 2 Reel

06-08-2005, 05:22 PM

I've said it before...but this is easier....

clik me...... (http://65.219.61.150/forums/showpost.php?p=334603&postcount=16)

Just post comments after you try it.....

hpsenicka

06-08-2005, 05:41 PM

House de Kris

06-08-2005, 06:06 PM

I'll have to agree with JimmyNeutron about using external HUI (Hardware User Interface) gear for computer music. I use a TurtleBeach AudioTron which is very similar in concept. Put the noisey computers in another room, and use the network to get the data into the living room. No disc drive noise, no fan noise and as easy to operate as a cassette deck. The AudioTron doesn't require a computer to steam data to it, it just grabs what it needs. Therefore, it can get songs from any computer in your network, or even NAS drives so no computers are required at all. I had all my songs on several discs in a Pentium Pro 150MHz machine running Win2kPro. Worked great without a glitch. I've since "upgraded" to a PII 300MHz, but really, a powerful computer is not needed.

The AudioTron has a Toshlink out that I run to my Casablanca whose DACs are good enough for me. Also has analog. It'll play MP3, WMA, and WAV. Also internet radio. I keep my "heavy rotation" favorite albums in WAV on my drives for great sound and no need to touch CDs, the rest are in MP3.

JimmyNeutron

06-08-2005, 06:20 PM

Jimmy... the ROKU looks appealing, but one of its features may also be a weakness, or at least a limitation.

Is there any way to feed a signal from the Roku to a typical vintage amp with analog RCA inputs?

From what I see it looks like it might be digital output only... is that right??

Probably every media streamer/server has some weaknesses. The trick is to find one that works well for you and your needs. The ROKU fit my needs almost to a tee because of it's styling - hands down the best looking unit to blend with your home gear. The ROKU has both RCA analog line outs, as well as a coax digital out. All media conversion is done in the unit so there is no overhead on the PC itself. This unit is hooked up to my Krell via coax out and the Krell handles the conversion. In my bedroom system, my second ROKU is hooked up to my C-39 via analog RCA outs. Obviously, the Krells better DAC's and cleaner handling of the signal results in a very nice sound - almost as good as my CD's (but no, not CD quality). This could all change soon as one of the achilles heel of the ROKU will soon be adressed via a downloadable firmware upgrade - the ability to handle FLAC files! WooHoo!! Finally a real-world alternative to the crummy sound of mp3's!! This will be great!!

There are also other products that handle not just the audio, but video as well. Roku's HD1000 unit will play mp3's as well as all your video files and photos - and output those photos in real hi-def to your TV's component input!!! Finally your 5 megapixel picture will look like a 5 megapixel picture on your TV and not like some washed out comic book cartton drawing!! I've seen this unit at CompUSA and let me tell you this is real computer/video/audio convergence here!! This will be my next purchase (when funds allow).

HP, Linksys, Belkin, Netgear, etc all have similar models that do these things - and they do it wirelessly. We live in an awesome time right now. The world of Star Trek is already upon us :)

BTW: Putting all your media on 1 computer and then tuck it into the closet is the way to go. I bought my Gateway for $5.00 at a yardsale just last month. All it needed was a hard drive. I have several lying around. All my music was transferred to it and tucked in the closet and connected to my network. Bingo - instant wireless server!! All easily upgradable to any format that a PC can handle!! And all for several thousand dollars less than the nearest audio component competitor!! It's cheap, easy, and sounds very good. And it's not a big and fast fancy computer either. It's a Pentium II 300 mHz with 512 RAM. But since the only program it's running is the operating system and the music server program, it has never studdered or bogged down. :thmbsp:

hpsenicka

06-08-2005, 06:39 PM

My bad... did not look closely enough to see that the Roku has stereo RCA outputs.

hpsenicka

06-09-2005, 12:12 PM

Jimmy... what software did you use for your music server? I assume it is likely WIN2K + some kind of streaming audio server??

H de K... from your description, it sounds like your server is just sharing a folder which your Audiotron simply reads mp3 and WAV files from... is that right?

I have a spare PC I can redeploy for this.... will need a serious storage upgrade, and prolly some more RAM (only 64Mb right now).

House de Kris

06-09-2005, 12:20 PM

H de K... from your description, it sounds like your server is just sharing a folder which your Audiotron simply reads mp3 and WAV files from... is that right?

I have a spare PC I can redeploy for this.... will need a serious storage upgrade, and prolly some more RAM (only 64Mb right now).

Yes, for the AudioTron, it searches through all of the shares on your network and builds up its own map to the music.

Both my PentiumPro and my PII machines I used in this application only had 64M.

JimmyNeutron

06-09-2005, 12:32 PM

Hpsenicka, I use winXP pro and my media player of choice right now is Windows Media Player! Very underestimated program. It will find all folders on your network and integrates seamlessly since it is a windows product. This is, of course, if I access my music thru a PC remotely. When I use my Roku for music streaming, it has it's own browser to find all the songs in your folder of choice, as well as presets for internet radion stations.

hpsenicka

06-09-2005, 12:51 PM

Thanks for the replies guys...

So it appears that both devices are just looking for a shared folder on the network which stores the music content.

I presume that means that the devices don't care about the operating system being used, or the type of device, as long as the files are accessible.. is that right?

The reason I am probing a bit, it that the Linux OS can be a very effective file server platform on minimal hardware... much more so than WIN2K.

If there is no requirement for a streaming audio application server to be running on the network... just a simple file sharing folder.... that makes things much easier, and opens the door to a couple additional options.

Thanks again... I'm off to scrounge some cheap storage space, and research these devices a bit more.

rickwood

06-09-2005, 03:04 PM

reel:
Since I have an ipod i have been using itunes as my player but i figured i would re-install winamp and download dfx to try it out. I think that the switch to winamp might have made the biggest difference but the dfx made the highs sound harsh even at half regular volume. Maybe it's because i only have the free version...?

-Rick

uofmtiger

06-09-2005, 03:25 PM

If you are intersted in a media server, you may want to look at the IO Data networked DVD player ($250). It plays HD (or SD) movie files over the network in addition to the photos and music. It also can be used as a DVD player and will upscale your DVDs to 720p or 1080i through the component outputs. It has analog outputs as well as digital. The player also has a USB2 port in front if you just want to play your files off of an external hard drive.

IO Data has upgraded this player many times in the past 6 months. On June 3rd, they added a Windows Media Connect function that adds several new features.

The audiotron devices are great for just music and many people go that route because they do not want to use a TV for the display. Roku has another device that does this well and also plays Flac. Slimserver also has a similar device.

hpsenicka

06-09-2005, 03:47 PM

uofmtiger....

It doesn't look like that thing supports native WAV files or FLAC.... please correct me if I am mistaken.

I think the ability to play an uncompressed format is an important feature.... other wise it looks kinda cool!

House de Kris

06-09-2005, 04:45 PM

hpsenicka, from what I have read, most of these types of devices require a PC to be a streaming server to work. Only the AudioTron seems to be able to grab files on its own without a computer spoon-feeding it. I also have a MediaMVP, but it requires a computer to run send streaming data. Plus, it can't stream data from a different networked computer.

The IO Data player uofmtiger mentioned sounds way cool. Either he or someone else has mentioned this before in a review and I will probably make this a future purchase. Playing straight off the USB port has my panties wet.

uofmtiger

06-09-2005, 05:46 PM

It doesn't look like that thing supports native WAV files or FLAC.... please correct me if I am mistaken. It does not play Flac. It will play wav, though. I am still holding out hope that FLAC will be added in the future.

http://www.iodata.com/usa/forum/showthread.php?t=131&highlight=flac

added: I went to their website and it does not have wav as a file that it supports. I will send them an email to see if they can fix that. To be sure their newest update did not change wav support, I just tested a wav file and it plays without any problem.

hpsenicka

06-10-2005, 08:31 AM

H de K... it appears you are correct about the need to have the PC set up as a streaming server.

Closer reading of the Roku user guide makes it apparrent that it is not possible just to browse a network drive or folder and read/play MP3 or WAV files directly.

I am also not clear on whether playlists must be created in advance, or whether tunes can be selected on the fly.

Anyway, the ideal architecture I have in mind is to use a PC (or even more than one PC) stricly as a digital storage library, and not require it to be directly attached to the listening system in any way. A device like the Roku SoundBridge , or the Audiotron would then act as a "networked music player", reading data from the digital library, and passing analog or digital audio output to the "hi-fi" playback system.

Ideally, the "networked music player" should be capabable of reading digital music sources of any variety, and not be tied to specific vendors, products, or services.

EDIT: ANother requirement in my mind is that the unit have a user interface that is independent of a computer or a television screen.... I like the Roku in this respect because you can control its functions with the remote, and it has a built-in display. If I decide to use this as a source device in an HT system this perhaps is a minor point, but as a source device for an audio system this is an imprtant feature I think.

I do find the Roku to be visually very attractive... not sure if the features are exactly what I had imagined.. I am disappointed about the dependency on a streaming server. The Audiotron's lack of dependence on a streaming server is a strong feature I think!

EDIT: The Linkplayer looks like you need to have it plugged into a TV for the on-screen display to navigate the menus... this would be a disadvantage in my book.

uofmtiger

06-10-2005, 09:53 AM

The IO Data player uofmtiger mentioned sounds way cool. Either he or someone else has mentioned this before in a review and I will probably make this a future purchase. Playing straight off the USB port has my panties wet. This was the main reason I bought the IO Data Linkplayer in the first place. The USB2.0 in the front makes it possible to play music, movies, or pictures without needing a computer at all. Currently, I have a Maxtor 250GB external HD plugged into the USB port that is full of movies I ripped from DVD. It gives me access to 250GB of my DVD collection via vob files and I do not need a computer to access them.

For music, I bought their UHLD 300GB hard drive network server. The reason I bought it was to play back my music without a need for a computer. The UHLD that they sell has software built in that provide a screensaver.

If you do decide to turn on your computer, you may want to use their software, but it is not necessary.

I have reviews of the Linkserver and the UHLD that you can access from the top of my webpage ( www.uofmtiger.com ) . The Linkserver review has been amended many times because IO Data is constantly adding new features. I need to update it again to add Rhapsody and Window Media Connect. However, you can get a pretty good overview from reading my current review.

House de Kris

06-10-2005, 12:41 PM

H de K... it appears you are correct about the need to have the PC set up as a streaming server.

Closer reading of the Roku user guide makes it apparrent that it is not possible just to browse a network drive or folder and read/play MP3 or WAV files directly.

I am also not clear on whether playlists must be created in advance, or whether tunes can be selected on the fly.

Anyway, the ideal architecture I have in mind is to use a PC (or even more than one PC) stricly as a digital storage library, and not require it to be directly attached to the listening system in any way. A device like the Roku SoundBridge , or the Audiotron would then act as a "networked music player", reading data from the digital library, and passing analog or digital audio output to the "hi-fi" playback system.

Ideally, the "networked music player" should be capabable of reading digital music sources of any variety, and not be tied to specific vendors, products, or services.

EDIT: ANother requirement in my mind is that the unit have a user interface that is independent of a computer or a television screen.... I like the Roku in this respect because you can control its functions with the remote, and it has a built-in display. If I decide to use this as a source device in an HT system this perhaps is a minor point, but as a source device for an audio system this is an imprtant feature I think.

I do find the Roku to be visually very attractive... not sure if the features are exactly what I had imagined.. I am disappointed about the dependency on a streaming server. The Audiotron's lack of dependence on a streaming server is a strong feature I think, but on the downside it looks like you need to have it plugged into a TV for the on-screen display!

The AudioTron does not need, nor does it have connections for, a TV or any sort of CRT display. It comes with a two line 40 character display on the front panel. Using the remote or front panel, you can search for music by title, artist, album, genre, or playlist.

hpsenicka

06-10-2005, 12:58 PM

The AudioTron does not need, nor does it have connections for, a TV or any sort of CRT display. It comes with a two line 40 character display on the front panel. Using the remote or front panel, you can search for music by title, artist, album, genre, or playlist.

H de K... you are absolutely right... I was confusing it with the IO Data Linkplayer mentioned by uofmtiger. My bad again! I'm going to go back and correct my previous post...

uofmtiger

06-10-2005, 01:30 PM

EDIT: The Linkplayer looks like you need to have it plugged into a TV for the on-screen display to navigate the menus... this would be a disadvantage in my book. I think Roku has two devices to address each of these issues. The Roku Soundbridge is the one you should look into. From what I understand, it also supports Flac using the slimserver software.

I personally wanted a device with a video output for navigating my collection. The addition features of photo slideshows and movies streaming made the Linkplayer a better device for my needs. However, for music only, the audiotron, soundbridge, and squeezebox 2 seem to be better choices for your needs.

Reel 2 Reel

06-10-2005, 02:00 PM

nevermind.....:sigh:

hpsenicka

06-10-2005, 02:43 PM

Gary...

You seem frustrated that there isn't more interest in your approach to MP3 playback... well I hear you, but I'm not sure what you are doing is exactly what I am after.

You have a significant library of MP3s, and have worked out a method that gets great sound out of them despite some of the inherent limitations of the MP3 format. What you have accomplished with sound processing is impressive, as anyone who took a moment at the AKfest to listen to your system will know.

However, I'm not crazy about MP3s and would prefer to use lossless formats like WAV or FLAC when I can. I do use MP3's sometimes for the convenience, and frequently that is the only format available for a particular track.

I want to be able to play back my digital music sources without having to sit at a PC to do it... or for that matter, not having a PC anywhere in sight. The ideal player shouldn't care whether the files are stored on a USB memory stick, on my iPod, on a server, downloaded form the internet... etc...

I am looking for a device (or devices) that can bridge the gap seamlessly. It should be compact and have any easy to use control panel or remote... and have a simple hookup (either digital or analog) to my sound system. It needs to look like it is part of the HT or stereo system, partly for WAF reasons.

I'm not sure the gear I want even exists yet... but the Roku Soundbrige, the LinkPlayer, and the Audiotron seem to be getting pretty close...

Micropassatman

06-10-2005, 05:08 PM

I started my computer audio by building a SFF PC . I loaded it with a 160 Gig HDD and a Soundblaster Audigy2-ZS PCI card. The reason I went with the Audigy was so I could use the PC's DVD drive as a DVD audio player. It supports DTS-ES and DTS Neo:6 as well as having 96k/24 bit playback capabilities. Although this was a satisfactory solution on the one hand, the noise floor of my system was hampered greatly by the volume of the PC's fans. Scrapping the DVD-A option, I picked myself up a Gateway ADC-220 Networkable DVD player. It supports ethernet wired and wireless connectivity, and will stream multiple audio and video formats. I not only use this to stream 320k WMA files ripped from my 400+ CD collection, but I can also use the unit to playback DIVX and MPEG files captured to the unit from my ATI AllInWonder video card. I have 400 gigs of storage capacity on the server. The Gateway player has optical and coaxial outputs, and it is connected to my Sony ES receiver via the toslink connection. It allows me to fully take advantage of my wired-network's potential. :D

Reel 2 Reel

06-10-2005, 06:50 PM

Thats OK Henery!....I understand your point also.....its just I hear a lot of people tryin to do the best they can with MP3s....and streaming audio......and putting all this money into it...audio streams will be compressed anyway you look at it...that is just the way it is....use the least amount of space or bandwidth to get the product to the consumer....

The other thing is ...it seems to me that most, in this thread, are using their computer to playback tunes with various soundcards..and or software...for playback on their home systems...and thats where my fustration comes in....because with very little money, and a little software you can achive great results!.......

All I have been asking is just to give it a try....those that have, are greatly impressed...and that is what it's all about......I'm trying to pass the good will on to other 'AK' members..in the persuit of better sound.

As for the quanty of tunes available...I have almost 1,000,000 tunes available at my fingertips for a minimal cost /month...thats something I didnt have at AK Fest..because of no internet connection...

my subscription has dropped to $18/3 months now...that is less than the cost of 1 CD/month....if that aint value ...I don't know what is....no discs to get scratched...no vinyl to clean ...and it takes less than 3 seconds to change tunes....and I can pick the tune 'I' want to hear...not one that 'someone else' wants me to hear!....

The MP3s that I have can be reconverted to WAV using the DFX also..and either burned to a disc for use in a vehicle...or downloaded into a little 'smartcard' of some sort and sound just as impressive....

I know I souind like a broken record...(pun intended)..but if I didnt try to give the best to my 'AK' brothers ..and sisters......then what would it all be for? :yes:

Now we return you to the regular scedualed thread..... :)

rickwood

06-11-2005, 12:53 AM

reel:
any reason dfx (freeware) would make my music sound worse? I really find it makes more of my 4,300 tracks harsh and bright across all genres. On occasion, it widens the soundstage a bit and adds some depth, but very rarely. Like I said in my previous post, winamp sounds better than itunes, why would that be?

-Rick

Reel 2 Reel

06-11-2005, 07:24 AM

Well...there could be any number of reasons...from software issues..to equilization curves............if its harsh ....I have no idea....At 'AK Fest'...we hooked an i-pod up to my system and and the tunes sounded just fine.....have you tried any MP3s that are on you hard drive...and see how those sound....you probly already did ......maybe it was the form of compression used... :dunno: ......Try another player...Windows Media Player maybe?...you can 'DL' it for 'WMP' also....

As for the brightness...try the tone control...thats what I do. When it sounds too bright...(I noticed that from time to time) ...I have to drop my 4K or 8K slider down about 5-6 dbs...and just that little roll-off helps the brightness issue....

I'm just tryin to help out with those who want the ease of using a PC for a source...and storage is an issue...other than that I guess WAVs are the way to go.....

Artie

06-13-2005, 03:28 AM

My setup is similar to some, different than others. I, also, just got the Chaintech card, to replace an older Aureal 2500. I have the sound card's line-in/line-out connected to a Proton preamp's line-in/line-out as if it was a tape deck. It is actually a digital deck that use to record guitar.

The Proton feeds out to my main system, which is a Tascam mixing board, Crown D150A, (that the kitties in my avatar are "warming up" to), and into a set of Yamaha NS-1000M studio monitors. (The 5650 in my sig is on a slight break, while I investigate a problem.)

The nice thing about the Proton is that it has a great discrete-component headphone amp built in to it. And it and the computer are on a separate power strip from the main system, so if I want to do some late night listening, I don't have to power up the whole system.

For CD's and mp3's I use VUPlayer (http://www.vuplayer.com/), a great little freeware, minimulist player. I've tried WinAmp, QCD, Foobar2K, XMPlay, etc. This one seems the best and supports the one DSP I use, iZotope's Ozone (http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/media/). I know that a lot of people poo-poo DSP's, but this one stands head and shoulders above the rest.

Anyway, its a nice system. Sounds great, works great, and is fun. ;)

Artie

rickwood

06-21-2005, 11:01 PM

Sorry to bring this thread back, I will be happy to switch to a new one if need be.

I've been trying new DSPs with winamp and I've found the 4Front EQ10 to be the best so far. I think it acts in conjunction with winamps equalizer and allows for finer resolution control of low frequencies because it has a different set of bands (31, 62, 125, 250 Hz vs. 60, 170, 310 Hz). Of course, it may be a moot point since the headphone-RCA goes to my 6 year old AIWA which eq's over it anyway right?

One question...
The AIWA has a dedicated sub-out (w/out controlls for cutoff, and only "t-bass" for level but affects all speakers.) The sub is an Infinity BU-1 powered unit with an 8" driver. The sub has 4 wire terminals for High Level Input and 4 for output, L/R Low Level Input RCA, volume and 60-120 cutoff knob.
If i ran speaker wire to the High Level Inputs on the sub from the front speaker outs, would the sub handle the crossover or does it still need the low level inputs? The problem is too many danged equalizers and cutoffs, preventing the midrange from even getting to my speakers (3 way mid/tweet/stweet)

Sub is 130W, Fronts are 100W, 6 Ohm....

Thanks for your help,
Rick

hpsenicka

06-24-2005, 07:55 AM

Don't know how I missed these earlier in the discussion, but I just had a closer look at the Squeezebox2 and SlimServer software form Slim Devices..... looks extremely interesting, much like a Roku SOundbridge in many respects, but the software seems more open in terms of the number of formats supported.

http://www.slimdevices.com/

I was also impressed that they disclosed that they are using Burr-Brown DACs in the Squeezebox2... wish that all of these manufacturers would provide more detailed specs on their products.

Has anyone done any hands on comparisons between the Roku Soundbridge and the Squeezebox2?

Most of the descriptive information I have found focuses on the features of the devices, but very little on the sound and performance...... I'd love to hear more from someone who has had personal experience with either product.

mike hatt

01-23-2006, 04:36 PM

i too use mp3 and computer based music as my main/most of the time only source, i have a dvd changer on the preamp but its..well its dusty now lol.

Soundblaster audigy 2 soundcard, headphone out to rca in on my fosgate preamp/processor, and then on down the line through my system. I want to switch to the new m audio sound card, mainly because it functions like a mixer, eight ins and outs, which i will soon be needing as i plan to upgrade the amount of studio sources/sound racks etc.

I found that even the difference between 160..crap..and 192 is large and noticable, mainly in the midrange, and a lot of my cds are at 256kbps, 320 is used for jazz classical and some very dinamic rock, but the 256 is used on the new music, as its all so verdriven/compressed anyways. I believe there was an article, if i find it i will link that explained about the over increase in bass and volume in todays' cds vs yesterdays cds, so i figure why bother to use up tons of space at 320kbps.

JimmyNeutron

02-05-2006, 11:20 AM

Since I recently built my dedicated music server, it has become my main music/media player. All my CD's are FLAC - since space is at an abundance why settle for anything less? FLAC vs. MP3= no comparison. My server is all remote controlled and has a built-in LCD panel - no hook-up to a monitor or tv needed. I originally had the wrong opinion about FLAC encoding, but after some enlightenment from Uofmtiger, and direct comparison, I have found that FLAC is the ONLY format (for now) that will do justice to CD reprduction. It's lossless so no information is lost.

I researched the whole idea about music servers for quite some time before building mine. I could not find 1 server that had the features that I wanted - there was always some wishlist left or some comprimise. I decided to tackle the bear and just build one myself - exactly the way I want it. It took a while but it was all well worth it - and for a whole lot less than what I could have bought a cheap unit for. My advice is if you are capable of pouring some elbow greas into your work, build one. You'll be much more happy in the long run. :music:

Jimmy

titanstats

02-06-2006, 11:00 PM

Perhaps I'm a heathen, but I find the difference between high-bitrate MP3 (256), FLAC, and OGG files to be pretty much negligible. My computer has been slowly becoming my main source of music since I first started toying around with the idea a few years ago.

The server box is in another room, and is hardwired to the monitor (21" CRT), TV, and stereo; mouse and KB are wireless. I opted not to go with a USB card (and remote) due to the somewhat inferior specs of USB hardware vs. PCI cards. Any surround functions are taken care of by the sound card, if and when I need them.

Mostly this system is used for good old stereo functions and cartoons/movies for my son. Aside from the computer side of things, it is an all-vintage setup: I use my Marantz, Sansui, and HK amps for the various speaker configurations that I need for different playback situations.

Though many people slag Creative soundcards and WMP for playback, they both perform wonderfully. My Audigy2 card has been a dream, and the convenience of several hundreds of gigs of music cannot be beaten (not to mention the seven hundred gigs of movies/toons :) ). Most people that have seen my system are downright shocked that a computer can sound so beautiful these days. My CD player is growing cobwebs, frankly...

It could sound better, I suppose, but for the money, it has been an amazing journey. I'd recommend that every AKer give this a try, just for the hell of it. :)

uofmtiger

02-07-2006, 02:07 PM

originally had the wrong opinion about FLAC encoding, but after some enlightenment from Uofmtiger, and direct comparison, I have found that FLAC is the ONLY format (for now) that will do justice to CD reprduction. It's lossless so no information is lost. I always love to see a convert! :thmbsp: Perhaps I'm a heathen, but I find the difference between high-bitrate MP3 (256), FLAC, and OGG files to be pretty much negligible. I think MOST people cannot tell a difference between high bitrate mp3s and lossless formats on MOST material.

However, another reason for using FLAC or any of the other lossless formats is to be able to convert your lossless files to better compression technology down the road. In other words, you have a lossless version archived on your computer that you can use in place of a CD to take advantage of more efficient CODECs in the future. When I first burned my CDs to my computer, I used mp3s. However, I learned a lot since then and I regret not using a lossless format to begin with. Audigy2 card has been a dream Mine, too! I run the miniplug to digital coax and I am able to have DD5.1/DTS sound on my main system in the living room without any issues. I use the regular connections on the card to run my Logitech Z-680s in my office and that gives me a lot of flexibility.

soundmotor

02-16-2006, 07:41 AM

It could sound better,

What is the most important is that it sounds good enough under most circumstances. It certainly blows away analog FM which is considered by many as a viable listening source.

I use MP3 & internet streaming primarily as background music much the way I used to use the FM tuner. In other words, it goes on when I awake and is playing as I go on about my business throughout the day. As I am unable to "seriously" listen most of the time, the computer is perfect for music reproduction.

The other thing too is that this is a format still in its infancy. Codecs & compression schemes will continue to improve and with that, the audio derived from them.

Photobitstream

02-16-2006, 08:30 AM

What is the most important is that it sounds good enough under most circumstances. It certainly blows away analog FM which is considered by many as a viable listening source.

Couldn't agree more. I have almost 20,000 tracks in iTunes, and about 100 cassettes to copy onto my hard drive. I'm adding music daily, and will prbably fill my 200GB hard drive with 256 kbs AAC files in two or three months. Then I'll buy a couple of 500GB drives (one for storage, one for backup) and keep going.

About one year ago I did some A/B comparisons of origial files vs. 256 kbs AAC files, and determined the difference was not worth the increased storage capacity. If I want to sit down and listen critically I can always play the original.

Not only do the files on my computer sound better than FM, I have a better collection than most radio stations, and we have two excellent stations in Austin.

Jovinyl

02-16-2006, 10:09 AM

After reading through the posts on this thread (those that dealt with mp3 and software I did the quick read) set my computer up for music play back like this. Hooked up a Marantz reciever 2325, my S/A 301 re-foams. Added a 300Gb slave drive, a 300GB external dr. The slave dr. holds my music. Use windows media player. Loaded over a thousand CD's. It sounds really good to me. I might need software when I put a turntable in the mix, right now it sounds fine with no issues. I do not or ever intend to download music from internet. I do like the I-pod thing, which I don't own yet but have tried in my truck. The music will come from my music folders. As my needs change I guess I will be back in for more reading. For now this is how I set my PC up simple but effective. :music: :music:

Jovinyl

02-16-2006, 10:16 AM

:D Let me try load pic. :music:

Photobitstream

02-16-2006, 10:26 AM

Nice setup there, JoVinyl.

I've been using Click Repair (http://wwwmaths.anu.edu.au/~briand/sound/) to clean up vinyl and I add it to my itunes collection. Click Repair works on Macs, Windows and Linux boxes, and does a very good job removing noise.

I run my turntable into the preamp, then use the tape outputs to feed a $35 Griffin iMic USB DAC which goes to the computer. I have a Sony TA-E77ESD preamp on the way, which has digital inputs. I still need to find an analog to digital converter for premium sound, but for now the cheap USB DAC does the job just fine.

I'm using CD Spin Doctor to record vinyl and tapes. Came free with Roxio Toast. Does a good job but crashes too often for my taste. Unfortunately I haven't found any shareware which has an interface as good as CD Spin Doctor.

soundmotor

02-16-2006, 11:13 AM

Here is my set-up (MP3, internet streams, FM, & CD) -

Sony VAIO (PII, Windows XP)
Winamp 3.0 playback engine
Yamaha DP-u50 external USB soundcard / preamp
Parasound A23 amplifier
Parasound T3 tuner
Sony X555ES CD player
MB Quart QP400 cans
ADS L300e right now (or L200cc, Boston MR120, homebrews, etc.)
Pinnacle Subsonic subwoofer

Eventually I will replace the VAIO with another laptop that has a DVD transport & use that for CD playback.

http://home.comcast.net/~mechanized/images/rackage.jpg

soundmotor

02-16-2006, 11:15 AM

:D Let me try load pic. :music:

That rawks! :guitar:

soundmotor

02-16-2006, 11:19 AM

a $35 Griffin iMic USB DAC which goes to the computer.

Here is the one I use with my laptop when I am on the road -

http://www.compulenta.ru/upload/iblock/3564db2634e3536547bdae19cd4080cb.jpg

TB Audio Advantage (http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/audioadvantage/)

(Other bits & pieces are a Sonic Impact SI-5066 T-amp & a set of Boston MR110 minis.)

Jovinyl

02-16-2006, 12:05 PM

soundmotor: That looks futuristic, nice.

sydsfloyd67

02-16-2006, 12:12 PM

However, another reason for using FLAC or any of the other lossless formats is to be able to convert your lossless files to better compression technology down the road. Not to hijack the thread, or be a disagreeable bastard, :) but anything that shortens file size discards information. (No future algorithm will have any way to restore any data that is discarded by SHN, FLAC, nor any other compression scheme.) One simply has to acknowledge that the discarded information/data is not necessary to achieve equal sound perceptible by the human ear. In that regard, it has been well established by necessary multiple double blind listening tests that even the most critical listeners cannot distinguish even 192Kbs from the orignal CD source, and oddly many rate even futher compressed mp3 as "better" (not necessarily more accurate though).

On the thread topic, has anyone tried the $80 Behringer FCA202 (http://www.behringer.com/FCA202/index.cfm?lang=ENG) outboard soundcard/DAC that uses firewire connections? The only review that I could find of it online said that for listening only (not recording), one may as well use a conventional sound card analog out. The goal would be for improve on whatever DAC is used on the native Mac G4 motherboard (heard it has T-chip) for even better analog input to a vintage preamp. -sf

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7917&stc=1

Photobitstream

02-16-2006, 12:18 PM

sydsfloyd, I bought the iMic USB DAC when I had my G4. The sound improvement was easily discernible. Griffin rates the S/N at -90db, which is plenty good for casual listening. The iMic is available darn near everywhere, from the Apple Store to Frye's.

Johncan

02-16-2006, 12:56 PM

Not to hijack the thread, or be a disagreeable bastard, :) but anything that shortens file size discards information. (No future algorithm will have any way to restore any data that is discarded by SHN, FLAC, nor any other compression scheme.) One simply has to acknowledge that the discarded information/data is not necessary to achieve equal sound perceptible by the human ear.

Not true... decode SHN, FLAC, ALAC, APE, or any other lossless format back to wav and you have a bit identical wav as the original files. The same does not apply to lossy formats like MP3 and AAC.

soundmotor

02-16-2006, 01:16 PM

This was the deal of the century -

Yamaha DP-u50 (http://www.yamahamultimedia.com/yec/products/cavit/dpu50.asp)

A few years back, Yamaha built it & they did not come. They were pricy, $250+, and they languished at the stores. No one knew what they were for and so they sat. Besides the USB interface it has optical input, subwoofer output, several analog inputs, remote control, & of course the full suite of Yamaha DSP effects (which you can bypass). All in all, a kick-ass unit.

I had started reasearching outboard soundcards to upgrade the output of a laptop used in a fixed location and had come across this unit but discarded it as a candidate because of the price. There were a few USB soundcards out there (Phillips, Creative, M-Audio) & a couple other tweaky ones.

About the same time I was putting together my streaming rig (early 2003) I started searching out the soundcard and the Yamaha came up in one of the searches as the top post for buy.com. The price? $50.00! I bought 3 & set up a friend & kept the other as a back-up.

A bunch showed up on eBay in the months afterward for double the buy.com price and they sold at that too. You don't see them that much but they do show up if you check. One there now -

eBay DP-u50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-DPU-50-Surround-Sound-Processor-for-PC-MAC_W0QQitemZ5866560060QQcategoryZ14978QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem)

I'm a fan of these for sure!

:thmbsp:

sydsfloyd67

02-16-2006, 01:16 PM

Not true... decode SHN, FLAC, ALAC, APE, or any other lossless format back to wav and you have a bit identical wav as the original files. The same does not apply to lossy formats like MP3 and AAC. Are you saying that the encoded bits (fewer) retain data somehow that can be expanded to the original larger recorded data set? Perhaps like representing a continuous music note(s) as a single character, and introducing a new character for length? I suppose. I thought 'lossless' was a relative and overused term :) I imagine that that kind of coding system would introduce compromises as well, but if not, then the limitation would be lower than what the .wav can depict. (Exploiting limitations in the .wav format.) That appears like other compression alogorithms, just further above the same much lower demonstrated percievable threshold.

Sorry for the hijack, and thanks for the insight. Who's heard that Beringher firewire DAC? :D -sf

sydsfloyd67

02-16-2006, 01:43 PM

....I had started reasearching outboard soundcards to upgrade the output of a laptop used in a fixed location and had come across this unit but discarded it as a candidate because of the price. There were a few USB soundcards out there (Phillips, Creative, M-Audio) & a couple other tweaky ones. These make me wonder if the Yamaha chip in there is similar or the same as that found in a good high end soundard or in the typical audio quality in the Macintosh. There would be the isolation of the electrical noise, but what kind of improvement would be seen? The consencous on the USB and PCMCIA cards for the Powerbook appeared to be that the analog output on those was just as good. I would like to compare these carefully soon, but relative to a G4 desktop (which might be hard to beat?) -sf

Johncan

02-16-2006, 01:50 PM

Are you saying that the encoded bits (fewer) retain data somehow that can be expanded to the original larger recorded data set? Perhaps like representing a continuous music note(s) as a single character, and introducing a new character for length? I suppose. I thought 'lossless' was a relative and overused term :) I imagine that that kind of coding system would introduce compromises as well, but if not, then the limitation would be lower than what the .wav can depict. (Exploiting limitations in the .wav format.) That appears like other compression alogorithms, just further above the same much lower demonstrated percievable threshold.

What I am saying, lossless is basically the same as ZIP compression. The data is not actually removed. It is just stored differently. Most common lossless encoders use an algorithm that makes a prediction for the next sample and then simply stores the difference between the prediction and the actual value. The prediction is significantly smaller than storing the full amplitude - hence the smaller file. The decoder knows the algorithm and there is no data loss when decoded because of the math.

John

sydsfloyd67

02-24-2006, 02:35 PM

(Ah yes, I get it, like Zip compression.)

In reading a little further on the web about Macintosh, a claim made was that the 'sound chip' work is done by the main processor (!) and that the relevant circuitry on the motherboard that corresponds to a PC soundcard is just to handle the analog output.

(If correct, there is a lot of processing power behind it at least, but is it hard to beat with an outboard USB/Firewire board working outside the box?) -sf

surge

03-31-2007, 08:04 PM

hpsenicka

04-01-2007, 07:08 PM

Hi all, first post...

after having read this article through with interest
(:thmbsp: most informative source out there by a long shot)
i've been taking a closer look at the turtle beach audiotron:

Their website states that networking is via an ethernet connection only and the faq's clarify that wireless connections can be made via a 'wireless bridge'. For the benefit of the only semi tech literate could you guys please clarify what this entails?

cheers

A wireless bridge is a device that provides a "bridge" connection between a device that has a standard wired ethernet jack, and a wireless network access point (or in some cases another wireless device).

An example of this is the original Linksys WET11.

There are a number of newer wireless bridges supporting 802.11b/g protocols available from several manufacturers.

jrsh92

04-03-2007, 08:58 PM

I have had great luck with iBook+10.4.x+Griffin Firewave at 96 khz+Onkyo HR-320 (non-vintage receiver)+Sennheiser HD 555's when I'm not using the cheap but quite decent speakers that came with the surround sound system/receiver... all of this plus a nice older Cambridge Soundworks subwoofer (125 watts) for movies and speakers cost me around $270 total, on top of the computer.

N3PHT

05-17-2007, 10:18 PM

I use an old 19 inch rack mount server 1.8 gig stuffed with 2 120 gig hd's
with a soundblaster live and a cheap back up sound card pump it all in to a berringer crossover then split it in to a Crown 1000 watt to the mains and a berringer 2500 watt to the subs.

The mains are MSC dual 15's with a horn

The subs ane custome cabnets (2) with 1 -15 each

Rocks the house ,There is more that goes on but that is the basic setup

All the mp3's are ripped at 192 at 44

shstrang

05-31-2007, 08:06 PM

Hello Sir
Does that Turtle Beach USB unit allow you to avoid that annoying-ass digital hash and RF interference?

Here is the one I use with my laptop when I am on the road -

http://www.compulenta.ru/upload/iblock/3564db2634e3536547bdae19cd4080cb.jpg

TB Audio Advantage (http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/audioadvantage/)

(Other bits & pieces are a Sonic Impact SI-5066 T-amp & a set of Boston MR110 minis.)

speakerfritz

07-22-2007, 09:55 AM

"computers as music servers!? "

it's easy to do with a factory produced HTPC, you basically just wire it up like any other audio device....the manufactures try to make the connectors look like audio gear. These usally have remotes and even mini displays so you often do not need a monitor.

as a worse case senerion, bigger challenges arise when upgrade a regular PC to do media serving. now you have to factor a possible sound card upgrade, a navigation system which usally means buying a video or sound card that has a remote, upgrading the OS to media edition...hardware may not be compatable, power supply upgrades...noisey power supply needs to be replaced with a quiet one.

DaLarry

08-21-2007, 10:50 PM

I just went through the first step of the process of turning my PC into a music server. That step was a sound card upgrade and what a difference that made. I installed an ESI Juli@ sound card and all of a sudden my PC was a "High End Transport and DAC. Now all I have to do is find the right content management software.

ShaneC

10-03-2007, 04:48 PM

bumpity bump....

I've started doing this as well, keeping everything the same hardware wise, just toying with different players.

Personally, I'm starting to like dbPower Amp as a media play. Most of my files are MP3 w/ Variable Bit Rates.

dbPower amp seems to have a smaller footprint than Windows Media Player, and a bit smoother than Winamp. It also can catalog all audio on a drive, or folder, etc.

Right now I'm randomly playing from a list of over 6700 tracks without any issues.

*note: my "music PC" is also *MY PC*, so I need something that doesn't bog the system down.

Jeffhs

11-04-2007, 02:08 PM

I've put my 1999 IBM Aptiva 595 computer (128mb RAM, 600MHz CPU) into service as the main music source for my stereo system. I also have an Aiwa CX-NA888 bookshelf stereo (200 total watts, 50 wpcX4) which I am using almost strictly as an amplifier; the stereo has a very good amp section (graphic EQ and surround, et al.), so I figured--why not use it as the basis for a digital audio system? Most of my CDs are now ripped onto my hard drive (I have over four hundred songs on it at the moment, but I'm not done yet--I have about 20 more CDs to rip into the system). Also using Winamp 5.3 media player, skinned with the Kenwood Allora III skin. (I'd use 5.35 or even 5.5, but the former doesn't seem to work for ripping CDs and the latter will not run, period, on Windows 98SE, the OS I am currently using.) As I write this I'm listening to the Internet stream of WKSU-FM (www.wksu.org), the classical music station of Kent State University in Kent, Ohio, about 60 miles from Cleveland. WKSU is on 89.7 over the air if you're in the Kent/Akron area or 89.1 if you're in Lake County, although 89.7 comes in reasonably well in the Cleveland area. Eighty nine one is a translator station (known as WKSV) located in Thompson, Ohio, some 40 miles east of Cleveland; it brings WKSU to areas of Lake County that do not or cannot, for any reason, receive the station's direct signal.

I'm sold on the idea of using a PC as a digital music source. Almost any recent-vintage computer will run Winamp or most other media players (but only systems with XP or Vista can use WA 5.5), and the Internet streams of most classical and other FM stations mean there are no reception problems (I listen to stations hundreds or thousands of miles from here, as well as local stations, over their Web streams; the sound is great--I like it so well that I rarely if ever listen to over-the-air radio anymore).

Digital audio is here to stay, and I'm glad of it. I'm 51 years old and grew up with vinyl, cassettes and eight-tracks, but this is the age of CDs and mp3s; I am ready for it. I still have a cassette collection which I partially digitized some time ago, but I lost everything when my computer crashed a few months ago--so, here we go again with the ripping process. I have a Radio Shack SCT-11 stereo cassette deck with Dolby NR and CrO2 capability; it's over 30 years old but still works like a champ. I patched it into my stereo system when the built-in cassette decks went West a few months ago (my Aiwa system was new almost eight years ago and is, IMO, really not worth repairing anymore). The problem is likely as simple as broken or stretched belts, but as old as the system is, I'm not putting any more money into it. The local TV repair shop's techs agreed with me (that the unit was not worth repairing) when I had the system in to get an estimate for repairing the cassette decks; that's when I decided it was time to go digital. I'm glad I did.

Long live digital audio and AK! :music:

Dynacophil

11-04-2007, 02:12 PM

Hi

I use a pc (any since 3 generations) with a Terratec 24/96 Soundcard. But more i use the XBox for streaming and Playing my mp3-database.

HELGE

Butchthetiger

11-13-2007, 08:41 AM

soundmotor

11-13-2007, 09:46 AM

Hello Sir
Does that Turtle Beach USB unit allow you to avoid that annoying-ass digital hash and RF interference?

It is dead quiet in my system.

RAzOR

11-25-2007, 11:28 AM

HI,

I have a HP laptop that I wish to use for a music server for my McIntosh C220/MC275 music system. Thinking of purchasing a Benchmark USB dac between my laptop and the C220.

The laptop has only a 100GB HD. Will an external usb drive work as a server for my music using iTunes? Any suggestion will be appreciated.

Bill

Hey Bill,

I am at exactly the same point. I will be connecting an older HP laptop to my poor man's McIntosh setup (Soundcraftsmen amp, B&K pre-amp with a DAC). Sound quality ahead of amplification but being able to access and deliver the various "PC-Based" sources is the whole game here.

By PC-Based I would like to: use the laptop for CD/DVD music playback, internet radio, and MP3/FLAC library playback.

So far I am planning to go digital SPDIF to the preamp and utilize the B&K DAC (excellent). This ensures that the quality for output from the PC is perfect and potentially eliminates any analog circuitry issues but raises one big question for me.

How is the source of music converted/passed to the SPDIF connection? I would like to know for sure but I am pretty sure that CD's and DVD's are passed directly to the DAC in the preamp. But for MP3's, internet radio, etc how is this signal converted to SPDIF? Is it still perfect or is there a converter process ahead of the SPDIF that I should be aware of?

If I were to go analog, I would need to have the best analog output DAC and electronics in the sound card. I do not know what is considered the best. AND there is still the question of the preamp signal creation for CD/DVD, MP3 but without the SPDIF conversion to the preamp DAC.

So I am researching and so far haven't found anything conclusive.

Dynacophil

11-25-2007, 11:44 AM

Butchthetiger

12-01-2007, 08:34 PM

Hey Bill,

I am at exactly the same point. I will be connecting an older HP laptop to my poor man's McIntosh setup (Soundcraftsmen amp, B&K pre-amp with a DAC). Sound quality ahead of amplification but being able to access and deliver the various "PC-Based" sources is the whole game here.

By PC-Based I would like to: use the laptop for CD/DVD music playback, internet radio, and MP3/FLAC library playback.

So far I am planning to go digital SPDIF to the preamp and utilize the B&K DAC (excellent). This ensures that the quality for output from the PC is perfect and potentially eliminates any analog circuitry issues but raises one big question for me.

How is the source of music converted/passed to the SPDIF connection? I would like to know for sure but I am pretty sure that CD's and DVD's are passed directly to the DAC in the preamp. But for MP3's, internet radio, etc how is this signal converted to SPDIF? Is it still perfect or is there a converter process ahead of the SPDIF that I should be aware of?

If I were to go analog, I would need to have the best analog output DAC and electronics in the sound card. I do not know what is considered the best. AND there is still the question of the preamp signal creation for CD/DVD, MP3 but without the SPDIF conversion to the preamp DAC.

So I am researching and so far haven't found anything conclusive.
I purchased a Benchmark USB DAC. Record CD's to my laptop using iTunes. Also use iTunes for internet radio with excellent results. The Benchmark has proven to be a great investment as the quality of music I get from digitally recorded CD's is outstanding. I am also very pleased with the ease of using my HP laptop as controller for my music system. The laptop also has a remote control unit that makes music selection easy. The 100 GB hardrive has its limits so I planning an upgrade to a 360GB hard drive that is coming out in the next month or two. Also have purchased a Seagate FreeAgent Pro 500 GB external drive. It too works well.

All in all, digital has so many advantages. Have been running a McIntosh stereo systems since the late 50's. Hope that all your plans work out for you too.

Bill

Butchthetiger

12-01-2007, 08:39 PM

yep, i use an external usb-dddriive as music source. no problem. But: keep in mind that most of the boxes arent really made for long running periods. if you want 15 hour paryjobs look for somezing active cooled, a 7200rpm hd may die very fast if not cooled. And - if you goin' to use desktop HDs (3,5") in external boxes, keep in mind that they are NOT REALLY made to be mobile. NEVER move when runing, never shock, they will be dead at once. With 2,5" hdds u will have the Prize/Size-relation problem...

Helge

Thanks for your advice. Will certainly be taking a look at a music server designed for quiet operation and with superior cooling. So far I have found some great products here in Edmonton. When my budget allows I will move forward with a specially designed computer for digital music operation.

Bill

bilboda

12-10-2007, 09:29 PM

You may want to find a usb soundcard with asio drivers or at leat to allow bit perfect playback, Windows converts everything to 48 khz. An EMU 0202 USB will allow the music to go thru untouched or upsampled and has an excellent dac. The 0404USB has a slightly better dac and twice the price. Using spdif (or optical) will send pcm stereo thru your dac and it will work but your sound quality is affected by the windows conversion to 48 khz. As far as the signal creation for your stereo out, any of the software available will work. Foobar 2000 is an excellent free music player that works with bit perfect output and VLC is an excellent free video player that will play anything without using built in Windows codecs.It uses ut's own engine. Truly unique, and currently only works for me in stero mode thru my digital out. It will convert any 5.1 from dvd video to stereo., as will Powerdvd, etc.

healeylvr

12-21-2007, 10:14 PM

VintageNut

12-21-2007, 11:17 PM

Face

12-21-2007, 11:23 PM

I use a Creative Xtrememusic card, and I use the analog out of the sound card to my stereo. This card has nice quality DACs in it and it produces very good audio.
It is a great card, but I had jitter problems, probably due to the location of my PC in my listening area. I now use the coax and opt outs, one to my DAC for 2ch., one to my surround sound receiver, and it sounds great.

kretinus

03-14-2008, 10:21 AM

I run a Roku Soundbridge M1000 using the optical into my Yamaha RX-V995, and I take it out iin the shop with me and run it into a Sanyo amp using the analog outputs, using 320 MP3s and WAVs, can't find a bad thing to say about it with the exception of the display not being readable. There is a very low noise threshhold running the analogs, dead silent on optical though.

I use Media Player 11 for server software and everything is stored on a Dell down in the basement.

Savjac

03-21-2008, 04:04 PM

Like many others here, I use the Roku into a Lite Audio tube Dac. The music is stored on a large eternal HD in the other room and runs through a Dell desktop wirelessly to the Roku. It sounds as good as any Cd player I have ever had.
Oh, I store the tunes as Apple Lossless.
Although I must admit that the new Squeezebox Duet, with the screen that shows your songs built into the remote is very nice and may have to replace the Roku soon.

uofmtiger

03-21-2008, 05:25 PM

Although I must admit that the new Squeezebox Duet, with the screen that shows your songs built into the remote is very nice and may have to replace the Roku soon.Yeah, I am considering the same thing. I wonder if it will control the Roku? Although I love the way the iPod Touch works with the Roku, I would love to have a way to access Rhapsody Music without having to run it on my computer.

vlatko

03-26-2008, 05:22 AM

I'm new to all this and simply running a cable from the speaker output on my pc to the aux input on my old marantz 2238 producing in my opinion good sound from the system. I know it's primitive but haven't got a clue about how to upgrade! I am using this to listen to radio streams and sites like sugarmegs, rhapsody and such. what would be a reasonable way to enhance the quality of sound from the pc?

I'm curious about the same thing. I'm looking into buying a stereo amp, looking into a Cambridge Azur 340a (http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=216&Title=Azur+340A+SE+amplifier) and I'd like to connect it to my PC. The sound card is an Creative Audigy 4, link to specs here (http://soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=205&product=14103&nav=1). What would be the best way to connect this sound card to the amp? Should I get some additional components, or perhaps a better sound card? Right know I'd probably connect it with a simple mini-stereo to RCA cable but I don't feel that's very "audiophile". Give me some recommendations. I'm new to all of this so feel free to speak in layman terms. :stupid:

I have a large library of personally ripped CD's in FLAC format and I'm looking to get CDP sound quality from my PC.

VintageNut

03-26-2008, 08:10 AM

Face

03-26-2008, 08:26 AM

I had jitter problems when using the analog out from my PC's onboard sound and also my sound blaster external. Since then I've upgraded to a X-FI Xtrememusic card and a external DAC. It sound almost as good as using my Integra SACD player as a transport. But for the pure convenience of it, I use my PC 90% of the time.

For a audiophile grade mini to RCA connector, SignalCable makes a couple of different models, one being of silver.

philcib

03-26-2008, 08:33 AM

What would I notice with a good quality sound card?

Most likely smoother top end and more depth. Also reverb tails will
probably last longer before vanishing into the noise floor.

vlatko

03-27-2008, 02:33 AM

For sure get a good quality sound card with nice DACs for good analog output
Dac is the digital to analog converter. The Audigy 4 is decent, the X-FI is much better. Even the X-FI is getting old now. I use the X-FI Xtrememusic card which has good quality DACs. Newegg has the Creative top of the line X-FI Elite Pro card with gaming headphones for 100.00 after rebate. You could always sell the headphones
Newegg and most online stores are a no-go for me because they don't ship internationally. Perhaps eBay but I can't find anything under 250$ that ships internationally and if I do, shipping is additional 50$, rounding it up over 300$.

Or perhaps a E-MU 0404 USB? What's your opinion on that card? In my local store I can get it for 1400HRK, whereas the X-Fi Elite Pro goes for 2000HRK.

Suppose I got the X-Fi Elite Pro, which cable connection would I use to connect it to my Stereo Amp? What gives the best SQ?
I had jitter problems when using the analog out from my PC's onboard sound and also my sound blaster external. Since then I've upgraded to a X-FI Xtrememusic card and a external DAC. It sound almost as good as using my Integra SACD player as a transport. But for the pure convenience of it, I use my PC 90% of the time.

For a audiophile grade mini to RCA connector, SignalCable makes a couple of different models, one being of silver.
Can you recommend an external DAC?

Thanks for the SignalCable tip, looks really interesting.

Face

03-27-2008, 01:08 PM

As for a DAC, it depends on your budget. I have a Camelot Arthur v3.0 which works really well. I believe you can find them in the used market for around $300. If you're willing to spend more, Benchmark makes a couple of nice units.

vlatko

03-28-2008, 12:34 AM

Savjac

03-28-2008, 05:25 AM

vlatko

03-28-2008, 06:22 AM

May I repeat the "Think Outside The Box" theory.
wIth an external music server, you do not need a sound card. Just Itunes or some other music library, a network connection, wired or wireless and the music server. The quality of your sound card matters nothing. Eveything stays in the digital domain until it hits the DAC and voila, music comes out there. Very simple, relatively cheap and best sound possibilities IMHO.
Ah, I see. So basically there would be no need to upgrade my Sound Card if I got an external DAC? I don't know if I mentioned but I'm quite the newbie here.

However, looking at the DAC prices...they're awfully expensive. Benchmark goes over 1000$ and Camelot is about the same. I have 1200$ in total to spend, LOL. Cambridge Azur 340A SE for about 430$ and the rest for some speakers + CDP or external DAC or quality sound card with good DAC's.

Is there any decent external DAC for about 400$?

I'm afraid I need to get all my equipment in local shops because I live in Croatia and shipping to here costs a fortune.

Savjac

03-28-2008, 12:59 PM

Lite Audio makes several nice ones, I have the DAC 60 and it is great.

dew042

03-28-2008, 01:31 PM

vlatko

03-29-2008, 04:43 AM

Lite Audio makes several nice ones, I have the DAC 60 and it is great.
Where did you buy it from? Know of any reliable online store that ships internationally?
I've been pretty disappointed with my EMU 0404 USB. I've been using it with a digital out from my EMU 0404 PCI card. I notice a lot of floor noise. I have not tried it via USB. It was only $125, but I am looking to get rid of it. Failed experiment.

I've seen a number of good things about the Audiotrak Prodigy HD2. RCA, Optical, and headphone output, and swappable OpAMP sockets for tweaking. Anybody heard this one? I am tempted as its also only $75.

http://www.audiotrak.net/products/prodigyhd2/

dew.
Thanks for the EMU input.

That AudioTrak card looks like a great bang for buck. I'd be curious to hear impressions about it as well. I just might get it to upgrade my Audigy 4, it looks like a sweet deal at 75$.

Savjac

03-29-2008, 08:48 AM

I bought my Lite Audio from GR Research, but Pacific Valves also has them.

riverrat

04-15-2008, 11:28 PM

I've been pretty disappointed with my EMU 0404 USB. I've been using it with a digital out from my EMU 0404 PCI card. I notice a lot of floor noise. I have not tried it via USB. It was only $125, but I am looking to get rid of it. Failed experiment.

I've seen a number of good things about the Audiotrak Prodigy HD2. RCA, Optical, and headphone output, and swappable OpAMP sockets for tweaking. Anybody heard this one? I am tempted as its also only $75.

http://www.audiotrak.net/products/prodigyhd2/

dew.

I saw that card too - looks like a great deal.

I'm currently using a DIYEDEN USB DAC to play FLACS through my office system. I got this DAC for a great price, and it is my first foray into the world of PC music servers.

I am unclear on the pros and cons of using a USB DAC vs a card such as the Audiotrak. Perhaps someone could help me learn...

dew042

04-16-2008, 12:23 PM

whoaru99

04-16-2008, 12:33 PM

VintageFreq

04-18-2008, 12:07 PM

I just started with computers as a source. I took my old Compaq Presario laptop and ran it into my Pioneer SX-737 using a Dayton Audio stereo mini into RCA jacks Y adapter plugged into the 737's AUX feed. The laptop runs on my wireless G network and I use it primarily for Internet Radio feeds.

I have a Compaq 6000 small tower that I use for my primary work computer and I also run Winamp/WMP/MediaMonkey/Foobar 2000 on it also for "mood/background" music. I have a couple of Creative SBS50 speakers that sound quite nice and when the wife's back here watching the big screen I switch over to my cheap Takashi wireless headphones ($3.00 at GW) and I can listen without bothering her and if I need to move around, my music follows me!:yes:

Mike :D

Jeffhs

04-18-2008, 01:08 PM

I have an eight-year-old IBM Aptiva 595 computer with Winamp 5.3 media player. Have many of my CDs on the hard drive and am adding more all the time (have not used the 3-CD changer in my stereo system for years because of that), as well as several Internet radio stations bookmarked in the player. The computer's sound card is connected to an Aiwa NSX-A888 mini bookshelf stereo system, 50wpc (100 total watts for stereo, 200 tw for four-channel surround, but I never got around to getting the surround speakers; just as well, I guess, because I'd probably have the dickens of a time finding space for two extra speakers in my small apartment). Wonderful sound. This is easily the best stereo system I've ever owned in my life, except perhaps for a Zenith 4-mode integrated system I had at my former residence in the early 1980s until 1999. That Zenith system was great in its day as well; tuned-port Allegro 100 speakers, only 5wpc, but very good sound (IMHO) nevertheless.

I like the Winamp media player for many reasons (some day I hope I can run 5.5+ but for now, I must settle for 5.3--my computer's OS doesn't support anything newer than 5.35), but one main reason is its flexibility, afforded by plugins. I have several on my player and just added a new one: reverb and speaker simulator. This small plugin enhances the frequency response of the player such that the sound through headphones approaches that of the audio heard through a stereo system's own speakers; it is also supposed to add reverberation effects to the sound, but I haven't been able to notice any kind of reverb effect yet. No matter. The sound enhancement feature alone makes the plugin worthwhile to have in my system; I won't part with it.

Speaking of headphones, mine are nothing to write home about; just a cheap ($1.99 at Big Lots) pair of Coby headphones, made originally for use with portable CD/MP3 players. No matter, again. These headphones sound just fine to me, especially since I installed the sound enhancement plugin in my Winamp player. That plugin, I think, is what makes the difference when using cheap headphones such as the ones I have; it sharpens and improves the sound just enough to make it sound really good, IMHO. I've only tested these headphones with my own music collection so far, which is mostly 1960s-'70s rock and folk music, although I do intend to give the phones the ultimate acid test (reproduction of classical music) later on as I have bookmarked the Internet stream of New York City classical station WQXR-FM. I'm not that much into classical music, but at least I'll be able to find out what these headphones are made of as far as fidelity goes.

uofmtiger

04-18-2008, 05:07 PM

I've been pretty disappointed with my EMU 0404 USB. I've been using it with a digital out from my EMU 0404 PCI card. I notice a lot of floor noise. I have not tried it via USB. It was only $125, but I am looking to get rid of it. Failed experiment.

dew.Did you try using the USB from your computer to see if it sounded any better? I was going to buy one of these, but the release date was put back several times and I got tired of waiting. It sounds like I did not miss much.

Vesuv1us

04-19-2008, 01:32 AM

I connect the digital output of my mobo directly to my pre/pro and also to my HT receiver in the bedroom. The pre/pro and receiver do the processing/decoding via their internal DACs.

Seems to work fine.

Whoareu99 is exactly right. This is the process you want to utilize, not using an onboard soundcard to utilize the el-cheapo DAC's they come with (even the X-fi and equiv.)

My current motherboard in this server is an Intel D975XBX2, which runs a Dolby Digital Live stream direct to the Denon. Previously I had a SB Audigy 2 something something... Only advantage of that fella was the upconvert of the digital signal to 96/24 for passthrough to the AV processor. Jury still out on which was better, but either way you want to run a PCM or some sort of encoded bitstream to the stereo's DAC's, assuming you have some other sort of digital source decoding...

Cheers,

Chipp

04-24-2008, 03:58 PM

Mmmm, Bad Axe. :) Sounds like a hell of a server you've got, Vesuv1us.

RobV

05-02-2008, 06:34 PM

A follow up on the EMU 0404 USB -- it sounds great with USB. I think using it exclusively through the digital input may have been the source of my problem. I also have it on a power conditioner now as well.

I have the similar E-MU 0202 USB (same DAC, but no digital out) and agree it sounds great. It is only USB bus-powered. Does the 0404 have a power supply or is it bus-powered?

Vesuv1us

05-04-2008, 12:08 AM

Mmmm, Bad Axe. :) Sounds like a hell of a server you've got, Vesuv1us.

You won't hear me complaining about any of the HW, but M$ can <expletive deleted> my <expletive deleted>. :yes:

dew042

05-05-2008, 09:43 PM

I have the similar E-MU 0202 USB (same DAC, but no digital out) and agree it sounds great. It is only USB bus-powered. Does the 0404 have a power supply or is it bus-powered?

It has a wall wart.

dew.

Harvey/ Ga

07-01-2008, 06:15 PM

Been reading this thread with interest, as I've started to save my CD's to my laptop for the times that I'm away from my system.

I've dipped my toe into the morass of portable headphone amplifiers, and started out with a Microshar 107B. I've now discovered the world of micro amps with a DAC.... the Practical Devices XM5 and IBASSO BOA being two that pop into mind. Connected to the USB port of a PC is supposed to generate far better music then the Line Out of the laptop.

Being retired, I can't afford to buy several amps to play around with, and $500 head amps are a tad too pricey.

Anyone here have any experience with these or others?? I have AKG K240S phones, and may upgrade one day.

Harvey/ Ga