Is anyone here using a Sub with their G-9000?

I am expecting a Sunfire True Subwoofer EQ Signature next week, and am wondering about the hookup to the G-9000.
I know I need to use the Pre-Amp outputs from the G-9000 to hook to the Line Level inputs on the Sunfire sub, and then from the Sunfire's Line Level outputs
to the G-9000's Power Amp inputs.
Do I leave the G-9000's Pre-Amp and Amp switch in the connected position, or do I switch it to the Separated 1)Direct-Coupled or 2) Capacitator Coupled position?

Please help, I don't want to damage either the G-9000 or the Sunfire Subwoofer. My aural well being depends on their survival.

I've done this for many years with AU-819 and AU-919 integrateds, which use the exact same switch. With the switch in the Connected position, the preamp out jacks still get the signal, even though the preamp and amp are connected by the switch. It's as if they designed it for this purpose!

I'll bet you're gonna really like that subwoofer connected to the big G!!! :D

Rob,

Thanks for the info. I believe you are correct. Morden2004 attempted to answer my question in another post but it appears he doesn't know what he's talking about in regards to the G-9000 or the Sunfire sub.

Yes, I'm hoping to be in low-end heaven sometime next week. I just hope I don't have to fuss too much with getting the Sunfire to blend well with my Paradigm Monitor 7's.

My listening room is crazy, as it's also my practice room (I'm a drummer), so It's full of clutter....plus it's a rectangular shape- 20 x 25. There are velvet covered 1 inch thick Dacron Board panels covering 2 of the walls to act as sound dampening, otherwise it would be so reflective I wouldn't be able to listen to a damn thing in there. Concrete ceiling and cast paver floor, covered by area rugs. I've got 2 acoustic drum kits in there, an electronic drum kit-Roland TD20s running through a TOA KD-3 Keyboard Amp, a Roland V-Synth Keyboard, Barbetta Sona Elan 53 Keyboard Amp/PA. 2 Bass Amplifiers-Crate BX2115 Thunderbass, and a Trace Elliott AH600 powering an ADA Bassline VX Cabinet. A Cymbal display tree with 13 cymbals on it, and more that I won't bore you with.

My point being that the room has a lot of odd shaped items in it for sound to reflect off of, plus one 20 ft wall is primarily glass windows, even with Velvet curtains, I bet those windows are gonna be very reverberant. It's gonna be interesting to see how that Sunfire behaves in that room.

Anyway, Thanks Again Rob. :yes:

I assume the Sunfire sub is powered. If so, I ask why would you want to use a powered sub with a G-9000? The Sansui's amplifier is capable of excellent bass. I would try getting full range speakers that can go down low and handle the G-9000's healthy power delivery.

I was using a subwoofer with my earlier Paradigms and now that I have full range Vandersteens, I have more "weight" in the sound. It resolves much better. If not carefully placed, Subwoofers tend to create a suckout in the midrange region. Not good for music.

I assume the Sunfire sub is powered. If so, I ask why would you want to use a powered sub with a G-9000? The Sansui's amplifier is capable of excellent bass. I would try getting full range speakers that can go down low and handle the G-9000's healthy power delivery.

I was using a subwoofer with my earlier Paradigms and now that I have full range Vandersteens, I have more "weight" in the sound. It resolves much better. If not carefully placed, Subwoofers tend to create a suckout in the midrange region. Not good for music.

Ditto. And Mordan may know more then you think. :yes:

Ron

In stereo installations (not home theater) subwoofers create far more problems than solutions.

They are useful for wimpy low powered jobs and/or tiny minimonitors with no bottom end.

The Big G deserves much better. Full range speakers with good power handling capabilities.

I bet Bolly's big Teledyne AR-9s would be a perfect match for a G-9000....

Is anyone here using a Sub with their G-9000? <snip> Any reason to create another thread (http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40258) on the same subject? RobV gave the answer you needed.

If you want the Sunfire to filter the lows out of the signal you feed your normal pair of speakers, you can use the high-pass output of the Sunfire to feed the amp-in on the 9000 (in which case I'd use the 'separated, direct coupled') but on most Sunfire subs I've seen, it's a lowly passive filter with a fixed frequency. Bob's idea with the Sunfire is really to use it in addition to your regular speakers, regardless of their bass response. Run your regular speakers full-range, and adjust the Sunfire to taste.

First of all, do you define full range speakers as having a frequency response from 20Hz to 20Khz, if so then yes, the G-9000 could likely benefit from speakers with deeper range than the monitor 7's which I believe reproduce down to around 33Hz- however that is the spec on the newest line of Monitor 7's, My pair are likely version 2, and I'm uncertain as to their actual low frequency extension. My Monitor 7's are incapable of reproducing sufficient bass down to the level of many of my source recordings.

My comment regarding Morden2004's lack of knowledge was not a personal attack, he simply did not provide information that was actually relevant to my question, specifically on the nature of the position of the Pre-amp/Amp section switch.

I quote Morden's reply from the Speakers forum---"I think you've got it wrong. Your sub needs input from your G-9000 but it doesn't process and return any signals to the G-9000 as far as I know.In other words, use a TAPE OUT connection to your sub. I run my sub (Yamaha; powered) that way.Paul"
I certainly am not going to run my sub from a Tape Out jack as per his recommendation.
The Sunfire has Line Level Inputs and Line Level High Pass Outputs (passive network, fixed crossover at 70Hz)via RCA Jacks. The purpose of the high pass outputs is indeed to filter out the low end so you can feed the signal back to your amp and have your main speakers handle all the frequencies above 70Hz. It appeared from Morden's (Paul's) post that he was unaware of the Sunfire's features, as well as the G-9000's capabilities via the Pre-amp outs and Amp ins.
As stated in my original post, I KNOW I will be using the Pre-Amp Outputs and Amp Inputs on my G-9000 to hook up the Sunfire Sub, My concern is with the Selector switch position- To leave it in the CONNECTED position or the Separated 1) Direct Coupled or 2) Capacitator Coupled position.

I actually have a pair of mediocre 3-way Jensen M-1 speakers (built by Jensen from Bob Carver's "Sunfire Audio Group" plans.)from 1999-2000 with 15" Woofers that will reproduce down to around 24Hz, however the high end is a little dull. I have used them with my G-9000 and they are acceptable to listen to but lack the clarity and definition of the Paradigms.

I created another thread on the same subject in a different topic forum at the same time I posted my thread here as I thought it might be possible that some people may have knowledge regarding this issue that may not read all the forums, so I posted in 3 separate forums- General Audio, Strictly Sansui, and Speakers- Hoping to catch more responses. I posted the same question several weeks ago here and received no responses.

I'd like to thank RobV again for his constructive input....

:smoke:
Brent

The Sunfire has Line Level Inputs and Line Level High Pass Outputs (passive network, fixed crossover at 70Hz)via RCA Jacks. The purpose of the high pass outputs is indeed to filter out the low end so you can feed the signal back to your amp and have your main speakers handle all the frequencies above 70Hz. It appeared from Morden's (Paul's) post that he was unaware of the Sunfire's features, as well as the G-9000's capabilities via the Pre-amp outs and Amp ins.
I too was unware of the Sunfire's high pass outputs, asumming that like most powered subs, it had a only an adjustable low pass filter. :withstpd:

You should send the high pass output from the sub back into the G9K's Main input jacks and set the connected/separated switch to either the Capacitor Coupled or Direct Coupled position. Do not set it to Connected if you are sending the signal back in through Main In! :yikes:

As usual, EW is right on the money! :yes:

My apologies for neglecting to thanks EchoWars as well, Thank you EW and RobV.

I believe I will try the 1) Direct Coupled position first. I'll let you guys know how well the sub blends next week after I receive it and complete my tweaking.

Oh, yeah...I forgot to mention that I'll be receiving a Nakamichi LX-3 Cassette Deck next week, the most recent of my 500 some-odd Ebay purchases. Looked in decent shape to me, I don't know how good of a deal the price was, but I've been wanting one of these LX-3s for years now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5777435007&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

Brent

If you use the Direct Coupled position, that means you are separating the amp from the preamp, and will have to use IC cables to run from the Sunfire back to the Sansui to get the amp a signal.

My suggestion was to leave the amp in the 'Connected' position, run a cable to the Sunfire, and adjust your levels from there.

Your setup, do it as you wish.

EchoWars,

Yes, I was aware of that. I will be running another pair of interconnects from the high pass outputs on the Sunfire back to the G-9000's Amp Inputs. I want my mains to handle all freq 70Hz and above (as the high pass outputs are fixed at a 70Hz crossover) and have the Sunfire handle everything below. The Sunfire EQ Sig has a frequency response 16Hz up to 100Hz and Crossover control which can be adjusted from 30Hz up to 100Hz or bypassed, so I have some flexibility with how wide a frequency range the Sunfire will reproduce, as I could let it handle frequencies as high as 100Hz.

Crooner stated "Subwoofers tend to create a suckout in the midrange region." I've heard others state this, how is this so?

Thanks

Brent

Well what I meant was that subwoofers are tricky to setup. It takes a lot of trial and error to get it right. You might find that the Sunfire works fine as Rob V & EW described it. If it works fine for you, then so be it! :D

I particularly prefer to drive a regular stereo speaker setup with my receiver. Every room is different though. I tend to think that less is better. Less complications. An additional speaker such as sub, means that obtaining a smooth frequency response on a particular room will be much more difficult.

Full range speakers do not necessarily cover the 20Hz-20 kHz range. They do cover a substantial amount of that range, and generally do not need a subwoofer to "fill in" the lower bass. They tend to be large and bulky. You just can't go around the physics of it.

I'd reckon that most quality large floorstanding full range models should suffice unless you listen to pipe organ recordings. Just imagine those cones reproducing record warps !

Also, let's remember that any quality "True Subwoofer" if properly setup should be imperceptible with most common recordings. Rock and pop music does not have any low frequency material in the subwoofer region.

The "punchy bass line" from good rock recordings is reproduced above this range. No need for a subwoofer.

With a good setup the sub should only be audible or felt when the low bass frequencies are really there. Pipe organ and the concert drum are two good instruments that require extended low end response.